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RE: [coldwarcomms] Mallard Communications Project

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  • John K Scoggin, Jr
    I recall the big upgrade on the NSFnet from 56kbps trunks to T-1. My employer had a Telebit dialup link via UUnet (formerly used for UUCP networking) which
    Message 1 of 8 , May 26, 2013
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      I recall the "big upgrade" on the NSFnet from 56kbps trunks to T-1. My
      employer had a Telebit dialup link via UUnet (formerly used for UUCP
      networking) which was active on-demand (which rapidly turned into a 7x24
      dial connection from Delaware to Arlington VA). It wasn't long before we
      moved to a 56Kbps DDS link.



      Those were the days.



      john



      From: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com [mailto:coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Mike Cowen
      Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 5:00 PM
      To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Mallard Communications Project





      An interesting concept. It's interesting to note
      the cancellation date is about the time ARPANET
      went online, and that we're most likely using its
      non-secure successor right now. The notion of
      1-5Mb/s global links must have been jaw dropping
      in 1969 - especially considering what we've
      previously discussed here of NASA's network, and
      what it took to get a fraction of that bandwidth
      in the same era (granted this study was for a post 1975 system).

      Mike

      At 11:31 AM 5/26/2013, you wrote:
      >
      >
      >A multi national comms network from the 1960's & cancelled about 1970.
      >
      >Here is one of the few websites with any detail:
      >
      ><http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/746209.pdf>http://www.dtic.mil/dti
      c/tr/fulltext/u2/746209.pdf
      >
      >P1
      >
      >

      ----------------------------------------------------------
      Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
      and selfless acts of beauty.
      mcowen@... <mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com> -Anonymous

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mike Cowen
      I still remember when 56k was fast . Relatively. :-) Though substantially OT here, I d love to hear some of Doug s war stories of founding one of the first
      Message 2 of 8 , May 26, 2013
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        I still remember when 56k was "fast". Relatively. :-)

        Though substantially OT here, I'd love to hear
        some of Doug's "war stories" of founding one of the first ISPs in the world.

        Mike


        At 03:03 PM 5/26/2013, you wrote:
        >
        >
        >I recall the "big upgrade" on the NSFnet from 56kbps trunks to T-1. My
        >employer had a Telebit dialup link via UUnet (formerly used for UUCP
        >networking) which was active on-demand (which rapidly turned into a 7x24
        >dial connection from Delaware to Arlington VA). It wasn't long before we
        >moved to a 56Kbps DDS link.
        >
        >Those were the days.
        >
        >john
        >
        >From:
        ><mailto:coldwarcomms%40yahoogroups.com>coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
        >[mailto:coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com] On
        >Behalf Of Mike Cowen
        >Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 5:00 PM
        >To: <mailto:coldwarcomms%40yahoogroups.com>coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Mallard Communications Project
        >
        >An interesting concept. It's interesting to note
        >the cancellation date is about the time ARPANET
        >went online, and that we're most likely using its
        >non-secure successor right now. The notion of
        >1-5Mb/s global links must have been jaw dropping
        >in 1969 - especially considering what we've
        >previously discussed here of NASA's network, and
        >what it took to get a fraction of that bandwidth
        >in the same era (granted this study was for a post 1975 system).
        >
        >Mike
        >
        >At 11:31 AM 5/26/2013, you wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >A multi national comms network from the 1960's & cancelled about 1970.
        > >
        > >Here is one of the few websites with any detail:
        > >
        > ><<http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/74620
        > 9.pdf>http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/746209.pdf>http://www.dtic.mil/dti
        >c/tr/fulltext/u2/746209.pdf
        > >
        > >P1
        > >
        > >
        >
        >----------------------------------------------------------
        >Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
        >and selfless acts of beauty.
        ><mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com>mcowen@...
        ><mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com> -Anonymous
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >

        ---------------------------------------------------------------
        Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
        and selfless acts of beauty.
        mcowen@... -Anonymous



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sam Etler
        ... I found some other references to MALLARD. In ESD-TR-88-276, A Historical Chronology of the Electronic Systems Division 1947-1986 : September 7, 1969: ESD
        Message 3 of 8 , May 26, 2013
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          On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 11:31 AM, OZOB99 <ozob99@...> wrote:

          > A multi national comms network from the 1960's & cancelled about 1970.
          >
          > Here is one of the few websites with any detail:
          >
          > http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/746209.pdf
          >

          I found some other references to MALLARD. In ESD-TR-88-276, "A Historical
          Chronology of the Electronic Systems Division 1947-1986":

          September 7, 1969: ESD Detachment 13, Project MALLARD, was designated and
          organized at Fort Monmouth, New Jersey.

          January 4, 1971: The Electronic Systems Division was designated to manage
          Air Force participation in TRI-TAC, the follow-on to the MALLARD program.
          Later in the month, the ESD MALLARD Project Office was renamed the Air
          Force TRI-TAC Project Office.

          There's a good description of the TRI-TAC system in MCWP 6-22 (Marine Corps
          Warfighting Publication), Communications and Information Systems, from
          1998. There's a more detailed document, MCWP 6-22F, Switched Backbone, from
          2000 that has information. The AN/TTC-42, SB-3865, AN/TTC-39, and AN/TYC-39
          are switches used here.

          Those documents should be easy to find online but if anyone needs me to
          provide copies I can.

          I did a Congressional search for Project MALLARD and found tons of hits. It
          was of some contention during the Dept. of Defense Appropriations hearings
          for 1971 where there were questions around whether it was worth developing
          a system to communicate with our allies when communications between the
          various branches of the US military wasn't standardized at the time. These
          hearings were in 1970 and TRI-TAC replaced MALLARD in 1971. It would take a
          lot of digging to figure the out entire story of what happened, but there's
          definitely references out there.

          sam


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • jhaynesatalumni
          ... What I got from that was a symposium on frequency control. Do you have a different URL?
          Message 4 of 8 , May 27, 2013
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            --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "OZOB99" <ozob99@...> wrote:
            >
            > A multi national comms network from the 1960's & cancelled about 1970.
            >
            > Here is one of the few websites with any detail:
            >
            > http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/746209.pdf
            >
            > P1
            What I got from that was a symposium on frequency control. Do
            you have a different URL?
          • OZOB99
            Did you check P1-8?; I did nt find much other than mentions of it elsewhere; Sam Etler s post has some some references with detail. There are other docs shown
            Message 5 of 8 , May 27, 2013
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              Did you check P1-8?; I did'nt find much other than mentions of it elsewhere; Sam Etler's post has some some references with detail.

              There are other docs shown on DTIC.MIL but not available online.




              --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, jhhaynes@... wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "OZOB99" <ozob99@> wrote:
              > >
              > > A multi national comms network from the 1960's & cancelled about 1970.
              > >
              > > Here is one of the few websites with any detail:
              > >
              > > http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/746209.pdf
              > >
              > > P1
              > What I got from that was a symposium on frequency control. Do
              > you have a different URL?
              >
            • jhaynesatalumni
              ... OK - no I didn t check those pages, just looked at the title and assumed it was the wrong document. Sorry.
              Message 6 of 8 , May 27, 2013
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                --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "OZOB99" <ozob99@...> wrote:
                >
                > Did you check P1-8?; I did'nt find much other than mentions of it elsewhere; Sam Etler's post has some some references with detail.

                OK - no I didn't check those pages, just looked at the title and
                assumed it was the wrong document. Sorry.
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