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PA & NJ Long Lines / K carrier sites

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  • cpe122
    ... For the CO s, I can look up where most of them are today, but some of them are the same offices where the old cable terminals were. Any and all pointers
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 30, 2012
      Anybody know where any of these sites are/were (from Routes of AT&T Co. Map No. 6 - January 1970):

      > - Princeton (NJ)
      > - Morristown KE
      > - Morristown K2W (in Washington)
      > - Allentown KE
      > - Easton (PA)
      > - Bethlehem (PA)
      > - Allentown #2 (map suggests unique cabling and distance from #1)
      > - Reading KN
      > - Reading KE
      > - Reading (PA)
      > - Reading 2KW
      > - Lebanon cable/microwave jct.
      > - Harrisburg 2KE
      > - Harrisburg (PA)

      For the CO's, I can look up where most of them are today, but some of them are the same offices where the old cable terminals were.

      Any and all pointers welcome; coords and/or street address most helpful
      Thanks!
      /cpe
    • dsandow
      ... On the west side of US 1. As I recall, north of the Dinky/PJ&R RR. Repurposed as a day care center many years ago, but not checked recently. This
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 31, 2012
        --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "cpe122" <cpe122@...> wrote:
        >
        > Anybody know where any of these sites are/were (from Routes of AT&T Co. Map No. 6 - January 1970):
        >
        > > - Princeton (NJ)
        On the west side of US 1. As I recall, north of the Dinky/PJ&R RR. Repurposed as a day care center many years ago, but not checked recently. This property was larger than required, because it also served as the central depot for spare and restoration cable of all types (paper pairs through 20-tube coax) in NJ, and as a cable maintenance base. Excess land may or may not have been subdivided in recent years.

        > > - Morristown KE
        On the 3rd floor of the NJB CO on South Orange Ave (county 510) about 2 blocks west of the DL&W RR station.

        > > - Morristown K2W (in Washington) On the west side of NJ 31, a mile or two north of NJ 57. Still standing abandoned when last seen maybe 5 years ago.

        The sure bet is to visit the town tax office. Ask to see the tax assessors book for 1970-80. Look for owner = AT&T (or "AT&T of NJ", a real-estate subsidiary). Get a block and lot number, then refer to the tax maps. Don't be surprised to see several entries for AT&T. Pieces of ROW owned rather than easement. Repeater buildings/vaults for other later cables. Shops, storage yards, etc. Blocks and lots may have been renumbered since then, so you will ask for the conversion list to find the lots on the latest tax map. It may take a while to filter out the noise.

        The tax billing address will always be 440 Hamilton Ave, White Plains.

        Sorry I can't help with the PA locations.
      • OZOB99
        ... This is a example of those cases where K repeater spacing happened to be near an existing Bell building & thus no K station as such. I doubt any were
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 31, 2012
          > > > - Morristown KE
          > On the 3rd floor of the NJB CO on South Orange Ave (county 510) about 2 blocks west of the DL&W RR station.

          This is a example of those cases where K repeater spacing happened to be near an existing Bell building & thus no K station as such.

          I doubt any were co-located in a microwave repeater/junction unless the radio building superceded the K station.

          I'd guess there were one or more K repeaters leased in Independent Co buildings.
        • Blake Bowers
          _____ From: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com [mailto:coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dsandow Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:55 AM To:
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 31, 2012
            _____

            From: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com [mailto:coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of dsandow
            Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:55 AM
            To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [coldwarcomms] Re: PA & NJ Long Lines / K carrier sites





            Another thing to look for in the noise - Lots of times the property has gone
            from AT&T Corp of XXXX to a RBOC in 1984, (or other times) and now is back
            in AT&T hands. The RBOC is still listed as the owner however as AT&T
            acquired the company. Lots of sites in the Midwest are listed as SWBT
            owned, lots of sites in and around Ohio are listed as owned by Ohio Bell
            Telephone, etc.

            Also a good way to often cull out newer sites such as cellular, Cellular is
            normally on an easement or lease, while the older sites are listed AT&T CORP
            often times AT&T corp of Kentucky or whatever state it is in. You can still
            find some that spell out American Telephone and Telegraph also.

















            The sure bet is to visit the town tax office. Ask to see the tax assessors
            book for 1970-80. Look for owner = AT&T (or "AT&T of NJ", a real-estate
            subsidiary). Get a block and lot number, then refer to the tax maps. Don't
            be surprised to see several entries for AT&T. Pieces of ROW owned rather
            than easement. Repeater buildings/vaults for other later cables. Shops,
            storage yards, etc. Blocks and lots may have been renumbered since then, so
            you will ask for the conversion list to find the lots on the latest tax map.
            It may take a while to filter out the noise.

            The tax billing address will always be 440 Hamilton Ave, White Plains.

            Sorry I can't help with the PA locations.





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • cpe122
            ... Is this the place? http://binged.it/S1WjJz ... Got it; thanks. Odd that they refer to that office by name, instead of Morristown KE... ... We looked
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 31, 2012
              --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "dsandow" <dsandow@...> wrote:
              > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "cpe122" <cpe122@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Anybody know where any of these sites are/were (from Routes of AT&T Co. Map No. 6 - January 1970):
              > >
              > > > - Princeton (NJ)
              > On the west side of US 1. As I recall, north of the Dinky/PJ&R RR. Repurposed as a day care center many years ago, but not checked recently. This property was larger than required, because it also served as the central depot for spare and restoration cable of all types (paper pairs through 20-tube coax) in NJ, and as a cable maintenance base. Excess land may or may not have been subdivided in recent years.

              Is this the place?
              http://binged.it/S1WjJz


              > > > - Morristown KE
              > On the 3rd floor of the NJB CO on South Orange Ave (county 510) about 2 blocks west of the DL&W RR station.

              Got it; thanks. Odd that they refer to that office by name, instead of Morristown KE...


              > > > - Morristown K2W (in Washington) On the west side of NJ 31, a mile or two north of NJ 57. Still standing abandoned when last seen maybe 5 years ago.

              We looked there, including a boots on the ground visit last spring; didn't find anything. After posting this message last night, I did find this:

              http://binged.it/10FmQPa

              Could this be it?

              /cpe

              > The sure bet is to visit the town tax office. Ask to see the tax assessors book for 1970-80. Look for owner = AT&T (or "AT&T of NJ", a real-estate subsidiary). Get a block and lot number, then refer to the tax maps. Don't be surprised to see several entries for AT&T. Pieces of ROW owned rather than easement. Repeater buildings/vaults for other later cables. Shops, storage yards, etc. Blocks and lots may have been renumbered since then, so you will ask for the conversion list to find the lots on the latest tax map. It may take a while to filter out the noise.
              >
              > The tax billing address will always be 440 Hamilton Ave, White Plains.
              >
              > Sorry I can't help with the PA locations.
              >
            • bd6xray@lycos.com
              Sure looks like it. Typical roof line, typical white stone surrounding the door, typical white stone about a foot off the floor all around the outside brick,
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 31, 2012
                Sure looks like it. Typical roof line, typical white stone surrounding the door, typical white stone about a foot off the floor all around the outside brick, visible by rotating the view.

                Al Hajny

                > > > > - Morristown K2W (in Washington) On the west side of NJ 31, a mile or two north of NJ 57. Still standing abandoned when last seen maybe 5 years ago.
                >
                > We looked there, including a boots on the ground visit last spring; didn't find anything. After posting this message last night, I did find this:
                >
                > http://binged.it/10FmQPa
                >
                > Could this be it?
                >
                > /cpe
              • cpe122
                ... Got it. Still a little mystified why LL didn t just call it South Orange , as they did in other associated company buildings they were in... ... Right.
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 31, 2012
                  --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "OZOB99" <ozob99@...> wrote:

                  > > > > - Morristown KE
                  > > On the 3rd floor of the NJB CO on South Orange Ave (county 510) about 2 blocks west of the DL&W RR station.
                  >
                  > This is a example of those cases where K repeater spacing happened to be near an existing Bell building & thus no K station as such.

                  Got it. Still a little mystified why LL didn't just call it 'South Orange', as they did in other associated company buildings they were in...


                  > I doubt any were co-located in a microwave repeater/junction unless the radio building superceded the K station.

                  Right. Microwave was, more often than not, the new replacement technology. I can't think of any microwave sites that became K after the fact, although a few were supposedly equipped with as a "K terminal" (type A bank, etc.) fed by a branch cable, i.e. Norway, IL.


                  > I'd guess there were one or more K repeaters leased in Independent Co buildings.

                  I've seen many VF stations and K repeater in Independent territory; never one in an Independent company building though (not counting less 50% owned Bell Companies). IIRC even the mighty Lincoln Telephone Company tandem office was "bypassed" and fed by branch cable.

                  /cpe
                • dsandow
                  ... Absolutely. Good find. This building was also a repeater on the first NY-Phila L-1 (The NY-PX G cable) 4-tube .270 . That might explain the addition at
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 1, 2013
                    --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "cpe122" <cpe122@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "dsandow" <dsandow@> wrote:
                    > > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "cpe122" <cpe122@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Anybody know where any of these sites are/were (from Routes of AT&T Co. Map No. 6 - January 1970):
                    > > >
                    > > > > - Princeton (NJ)
                    > > On the west side of US 1. As I recall, north of the Dinky/PJ&R RR. Repurposed as a day care center many years ago, but not checked recently. This property was larger than required, because it also served as the central depot for spare and restoration cable of all types (paper pairs through 20-tube coax) in NJ, and as a cable maintenance base. Excess land may or may not have been subdivided in recent years.
                    >
                    > Is this the place?
                    > http://binged.it/S1WjJz

                    Absolutely. Good find. This building was also a repeater on the first NY-Phila L-1 (The NY-PX "G" cable) 4-tube .270". That might explain the addition at the rear.

                    Aside, for non-NJ, non-RR people. I mentioned "the Dinky", which locals would recognize. The shortest scheduled commuter RR line in the USA. In the interest of full disclosure, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princeton_Branch .


                    >
                    >
                    > > > > - Morristown K2W (in Washington) On the west side of NJ 31, a mile or two north of NJ 57. Still standing abandoned when last seen maybe 5 years ago.
                    >
                    > We looked there, including a boots on the ground visit last spring; didn't find anything. After posting this message last night, I did find this:
                    >
                    > http://binged.it/10FmQPa
                    >
                    > Could this be it?

                    It sure could be. But this is on a side road off rte 57, not directly on rte 31 as I recall. My mind is playing games after 40 years. Check the tax records.

                    Dennis
                  • dsandow
                    ... If LL had a real testroom in the building, then they would have called it by the BOC s name ex: Rochelle Park, New Brunswick, Newark 1&2. But this was
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 1, 2013
                      --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "cpe122" <cpe122@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "OZOB99" <ozob99@> wrote:
                      >
                      > > > > > - Morristown KE
                      > > > On the 3rd floor of the NJB CO on South Orange Ave (county 510) about 2 blocks west of the DL&W RR station.
                      > >
                      > > This is a example of those cases where K repeater spacing happened to be near an existing Bell building & thus no K station as such.
                      >
                      > Got it. Still a little mystified why LL didn't just call it 'South Orange', as they did in other associated company buildings they were in..

                      If LL had a real testroom in the building, then they would have called it by the BOC's name ex: Rochelle Park, New Brunswick, Newark 1&2. But this was only an un-staffed repeater. So it followed repeater naming convention (KE/KW) to simplify mapping and communication with distant LL testboards and status centers. Only the local repairmen had to know where it was physically.

                      There might also have been some wrinkle involving how the space was recorded for Division of Revenue purposes.
                    • OZOB99
                      ... Mckenney Va comes to mind; originally a manned VF repeater CO on the Richmond-Greensboro cable;K cxr added on cable in the late 1930 s with K repeaters in
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 1, 2013
                        --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "dsandow" <dsandow@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "cpe122" <cpe122@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "OZOB99" <ozob99@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > > > > - Morristown KE
                        > > > > On the 3rd floor of the NJB CO on South Orange Ave (county 510) about 2 blocks west of the DL&W RR station.
                        > > >
                        > > > This is a example of those cases where K repeater spacing happened to be near an existing Bell building & thus no K station as such.
                        > >
                        > > Got it. Still a little mystified why LL didn't just call it 'South Orange', as they did in other associated company buildings they were in..
                        >
                        > If LL had a real testroom in the building, then they would have called it by the BOC's name ex: Rochelle Park, New Brunswick, Newark 1&2. But this was only an un-staffed repeater. So it followed repeater naming convention (KE/KW) to simplify mapping and communication with distant LL testboards and status centers. Only the local repairmen had to know where it was physically.
                        >
                        > There might also have been some wrinkle involving how the space was recorded for Division of Revenue purposes.
                        >

                        Mckenney Va comes to mind; originally a manned VF repeater CO on the Richmond-Greensboro cable;K cxr added on cable in the late 1930's with K repeaters in the building(no terminal K);otherwise it would have been known as Richmond K3S, with Mckenney KN becoming Richmond K2S, and Richmond KS becoming K1S.
                      • cpe122
                        ... Any clue as to where any of the huts might be between NY and Philly? ... That s a great bit of history. /cpe
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 5, 2013
                          --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "dsandow" wrote:
                          > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "cpe122" wrote:
                          > > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "dsandow" wrote:
                          > > > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "cpe122" wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Anybody know where any of these sites are/were (from Routes of AT&T Co. Map No. 6 - January 1970):
                          > > > >
                          > > > > > - Princeton (NJ)
                          > > > On the west side of US 1. As I recall, north of the Dinky/PJ&R RR. Repurposed as a day care center many years ago, but not checked recently. This property was larger than required, because it also served as the central depot for spare and restoration cable of all types (paper pairs through 20-tube coax) in NJ, and as a cable maintenance base. Excess land may or may not have been subdivided in recent years.
                          > >
                          > > Is this the place?
                          > > http://binged.it/S1WjJz
                          >
                          > Absolutely. Good find. This building was also a repeater on the first NY-Phila L-1 (The NY-PX "G" cable) 4-tube .270". That might explain the addition at the rear.

                          Any clue as to where any of the huts might be between NY and Philly?


                          > Aside, for non-NJ, non-RR people. I mentioned "the Dinky", which locals would recognize. The shortest scheduled commuter RR line in the USA. In the interest of full disclosure, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princeton_Branch .
                          >

                          That's a great bit of history.

                          /cpe
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