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Re: [coldwarcomms] Mystery Tower - Eastern PA

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  • james kester
    ColdwarComms list ________________________________ From: Goody K3NG To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 3, 2012
    Message 1 of 27 , Dec 3, 2012
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      ColdwarComms list


      ________________________________
      From: Goody K3NG <goody.k3ng@...>
      To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, December 3, 2012 12:58 PM
      Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Mystery Tower - Eastern PA


       
      Is this from a list or database somewhere?

      On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:02 AM, james kester <radioconstco@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > They're not mysteries to me.
      > 7/24/08 #13626 of 26108.
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • charlie Fargis
      My memory says its either MT. Top or Big Boulder. Whichever it isnt , had one horn receiving from the other coming in from Wyndmoor The other two went to
      Message 2 of 27 , Dec 4, 2012
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        My memory says its either MT. Top or Big Boulder.
        Whichever it isnt , had one horn receiving from the other coming in from Wyndmoor
        The other two went to downtown WB CO for WBRE (NBC Chan 28) and the other to the transmitter site
        for WNEP CH 16 ABC
        The NBC feed went into the CO and from the CO to the customer via A2A video loop
        The ABC feed went to a dish on WNEP's tower and into Bell receiver at the customer's transmitter.

        That same horn fed HBO to Service ELectric on the same MT as WNEP.
        When hurricane Agnes blew out the Wilkes Barre CO, they fed WBRE on that horn as well.
        Lots of TV stuff on that hill with WNEP.

        WDAU was fed from Goldsboro as I recall

        My feeble brain seems to remember it was Wyndmoore Topton, Mt. Top Big Boulder.
        All TD2, one direction,no protection and one polarization.
        To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
        From: radioconstco@...
        Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 06:02:51 -0800
        Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Mystery Tower - Eastern PA


























        They're not mysteries to me.

        7/24/08 #13626 of 26108.



        ________________________________

        From: goodyk3ng <goody.k3ng@...>

        To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com

        Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:15 PM

        Subject: [coldwarcomms] Mystery Tower - Eastern PA







        I often drive past this guyed tower near Jim Thorpe, PA and have thought it was an old AT&T Long Lines tower, however I've never seen it documented in any AT&T maps. It has three horn antennas on top (at nearly 120 degree separated azimuths), typical of an AT&T installation, and one four foot (I think) Andrew high performance dish at a lower centerline. The horn antenna waveguides are disconnected. The tower is currently owned by American Tower which would lead me to believe it was an AT&T tower. I've also looked in Western Union and MCI maps and I haven't seen any evidence of it.



        Here's the American Tower listing:



        http://www.americantower.com/SiteLocator/SiteBrochure.aspx?lngSiteId=308&country=united%20states&towernumber=88215



        Anyone have an idea if this was an old AT&T tower or what its origin might be?



        Thanks in advance.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • charlie Fargis
        Here is the link on Albert s site with the route to Wilkesbarre from Wyndmoor You find Wyndmoor North of Philly Then go towards 10 oclock to Topton Then from
        Message 3 of 27 , Dec 4, 2012
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          Here is the link on Albert's site with the route to Wilkesbarre from Wyndmoor

          You find Wyndmoor North of Philly
          Then go towards 10 oclock to Topton
          Then from Topton go towards 12 oclock to Big Boulder
          Then 10 oclock to Mountain Top which is the site
          Not the link down to Wilkes Barre WBRE
          and the other horn goes to WNEP/Service Electric Headend

          http://long-lines.net/places-routes/1970-inset-A-Philadelphia.html

          To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
          From: radioconstco@...
          Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 11:55:54 -0800
          Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Mystery Tower - Eastern PA


























          ColdwarComms list



          ________________________________

          From: Goody K3NG <goody.k3ng@...>

          To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com

          Sent: Monday, December 3, 2012 12:58 PM

          Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Mystery Tower - Eastern PA







          Is this from a list or database somewhere?



          On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:02 AM, james kester <radioconstco@...> wrote:



          > **

          >

          >

          > They're not mysteries to me.

          > 7/24/08 #13626 of 26108.

          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David
          ... OK.... But it appears that this was at some point a LEC s property, not L-L s... My question was/is Was it built to LEC specs, not L-L? Does that explain
          Message 4 of 27 , Dec 4, 2012
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            On 12/3/12 2:00 PM, Blake Bowers wrote:

            > In 1999 AT&T agreed to sell the majority of the long lines sites, and many
            > baby bell sites they had aquired to American Tower Corporation. The site
            > you are asking about was one of those.
            >
            >

            OK.... But it appears that this was at some point a LEC's property, not
            L-L's...

            My question was/is "Was it built to LEC specs, not L-L? Does that explain
            the different tower design?
          • rjfrank1@ymail.com
            The maps I am referring to can be located on this site at: Files Route and Site Maps coldwarcomm.org maps Click on the link(s) and scroll down to locate
            Message 5 of 27 , Dec 4, 2012
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              The maps I am referring to can be located on this site at:

              Files > Route and Site Maps > coldwarcomm.org maps

              Click on the link(s) and scroll down to locate the individual map files.

              RJFrank


              --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Goody K3NG <goody.k3ng@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks for the information! Could you post a link to one or both of the
              > maps?
              >
              > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:05 AM, rjfrank1@... <rjfrank1@...>wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > The Farm Flats repeater site appears on both the AT&T System 1979 and AT&T
              > > Eastern South 1987 route maps as one of two repeater sites on the route
              > > between Allentown, PA and Scranton, PA. The remaining repeater site along
              > > this route was Lookout Mountain (41°15'45.76"N 75°42'25.46"W), another
              > > guyed tower.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Cheers, RJFrank
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • rjfrank1@ymail.com
              ... Correct. But also not on available 1976 & 1989 route maps, indicating the link was deployed, turned-up and then turned-down/decomissioned on the AT&T
              Message 6 of 27 , Dec 5, 2012
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                --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, David <wb8foz@...> wrote:
                >
                > On 12/3/12 12:05 AM, rjfrank1@... wrote:
                >
                > > The Farm Flats repeater site appears on both the AT&T System 1979 and
                > > AT&T Eastern South 1987 route maps as one of two repeater sites on the
                > > route between Allentown, PA and Scranton, PA. The remaining repeater
                > > site along this route was Lookout Mountain (41°15'45.76"N
                > > 75°42'25.46"W), another guyed tower.
                >
                > But not on Map 6 (1970)....
                >

                Correct. But also not on available 1976 & 1989 route maps, indicating the link was deployed, turned-up and then turned-down/decomissioned on the AT&T network between 1976-1989. Maybe someone on the list knows the exact timeframe?

                >
                > > The FCC Call signs currently associated with these tower sites are
                > > registered to Bell Atlantic Pennsylvania/Verizon Pennsylvania.
                >
                > With an admin address of Pratt St in Baltmore.
                >
                >
                > > Farm Flats: KNHZ979 Lookout Mountain: KIL37/KLM319.
                >
                > Only the KIL37 was a microwave license; the other two were VHF -
                > 151.985 Mhz.
                >

                I listed the FCC Call Signs to facilitate others locating these towers via the FCC ULS site as there is a dearth of information available. I had assumed that Bell Atlantic/Verizon had re-purposed the tower sites for their network requirements hence the 151.985 Mhz transmitter frequencies. Per the FCC site, build-out first use for these frequencies is indicated as 1984. Also, per the FCC site, the physical location for the KIL37/KLM319 transmitter is listed as "LOOKOUT MOUNTAIN 4.7 MI SE DUPONT, PA."

                > KIL37 talked to Scranton & Locust.
                > <http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/licensePathsSum.jsp?licKey=959832>
                >
                > 10Ghz.
                >
                Correct. If you view the Bing Birds Eye imagery for the Lookout Mountain site, you can see two different types of antennas installed on top of the tower. There are two KS-style horns facing Farm Flats/Scranton and two other antennas appearing to face towards Scranton/Locust.
                >
                > > I have not been able to determine what site location the horn facing WNW
                > > at Farm Flats is pointing towards, the remaining horns correspond
                > > directionally to the Allentown-Farm Flats-Lookout Mountain-Scranton
                > > routing.
                >
              • james kester
                The last link we did was Topton to Lynport... mystery date...  ________________________________ From: charlie Fargis To:
                Message 7 of 27 , Dec 5, 2012
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                  The last link we did was Topton to Lynport... mystery date... 


                  ________________________________
                  From: charlie Fargis <lackey91@...>
                  To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 11:14 PM
                  Subject: RE: [coldwarcomms] Mystery Tower - Eastern PA



                  Here is the link on Albert's site with the route to Wilkesbarre from Wyndmoor

                  You find Wyndmoor North of Philly
                  Then go towards 10 oclock to Topton
                  Then from Topton go towards 12 oclock to Big Boulder
                  Then 10 oclock to Mountain Top which is the site
                  Not the link down to Wilkes Barre WBRE
                  and the other horn goes to WNEP/Service Electric Headend

                  http://long-lines.net/places-routes/1970-inset-A-Philadelphia.html

                  To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                  From: radioconstco@...
                  Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 11:55:54 -0800
                  Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Mystery Tower - Eastern PA




















                   


                     
                       
                       
                        ColdwarComms list



                  ________________________________

                  From: Goody K3NG <goody.k3ng@...>

                  To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com

                  Sent: Monday, December 3, 2012 12:58 PM

                  Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Mystery Tower - Eastern PA





                   

                  Is this from a list or database somewhere?



                  On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:02 AM, james kester <radioconstco@...> wrote:



                  > **

                  >

                  >

                  > They're not mysteries to me.

                  > 7/24/08 #13626 of 26108.

                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                     
                     

                     
                     






                                           

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • David
                  ... I note that Blake s pages of Upper Sandusky OH show it too was a
                  Message 8 of 27 , Dec 12, 2012
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                    On 12/3/12 8:19 AM, Dexter McIntyre W4DEX wrote:

                    > Siler City plus all other guyed towers in NC and SC that I worked at
                    > during the 90s were built by Southern Bell. Montrose NC, between Hamlet
                    > and Fayetteville, was built by an independent telco. Those guyed towers
                    > became AT&T property after divestiture. Montrose was on a list to be
                    > replaced by a higher free standing tower but the project was canceled
                    > after a study showing a new fiber route connecting Raleigh,
                    > Fayetteville, Laurinburg and Florence, SC was determined to be needed
                    > for future traffic.


                    I note that Blake's pages of Upper Sandusky OH
                    <https://secure.flickr.com/photos/ashleyandcompany/4311320083/in/set-72157623302053202>
                    show it too was a guyed KS-15676 site.

                    Also seen on the old ATC drawing:
                    <https://ftptower.americantower.com/SiteDocs2/426/Drawings/VMLATC%2087977-1-1-Tower%20elevation/ATC%2087977-1-1-Tower%20elevation_6_7_2002_9_49_38.pdf>
                  • Pj
                    For those who go to Dayton and/are railfans, if you northwestern Ohio there are still plenty of active MCI? towers with KS horns on them from Fostoria to the
                    Message 9 of 27 , Dec 12, 2012
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                      For those who go to Dayton and/are railfans, if you northwestern Ohio there are still plenty of active MCI? towers with KS horns on them from Fostoria to the west/northwest. Some that I have seen appear to the eye to be fairly lightweight that caught my eye.

                      --- On Wed, 12/12/12, David <wb8foz@...> wrote:

                      > From: David <wb8foz@...>
                      > Subject: [coldwarcomms] freestanding vs guyed
                      > To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2012, 8:21 PM
                      > On 12/3/12 8:19 AM, Dexter McIntyre
                      > W4DEX wrote:
                      >
                      > > Siler City plus all other guyed towers in NC and SC
                      > that I worked at
                      > > during the 90s were built by Southern Bell. 
                      > Montrose NC, between Hamlet
                      > > and Fayetteville, was built by an independent
                      > telco.  Those guyed towers
                      > > became AT&T property after divestiture. 
                      > Montrose was on a list to be
                      > > replaced by a higher free standing tower but the
                      > project was canceled
                      > > after a study showing a new fiber route connecting
                      > Raleigh,
                      > > Fayetteville, Laurinburg and Florence, SC was
                      > determined to be needed
                      > > for future traffic.
                      >
                      >
                      > I note that Blake's pages of Upper Sandusky OH
                      > <https://secure.flickr.com/photos/ashleyandcompany/4311320083/in/set-72157623302053202>
                      >
                      > show it too was a guyed KS-15676 site.
                      >
                      > Also seen on the old ATC drawing:
                      > <https://ftptower.americantower.com/SiteDocs2/426/Drawings/VMLATC%2087977-1-1-Tower%20elevation/ATC%2087977-1-1-Tower%20elevation_6_7_2002_9_49_38.pdf>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >     coldwarcomms-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                    • David
                      ... KS horns on the enemy????
                      Message 10 of 27 , Dec 12, 2012
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                        On 12/12/12 10:25 PM, Pj wrote:

                        > For those who go to Dayton and/are railfans, if you northwestern Ohio
                        > there are still plenty of active MCI? towers with KS horns on them from
                        > Fostoria to the west/northwest. Some that I have seen appear to the eye
                        > to be fairly lightweight that caught my eye.
                        >


                        KS horns on the enemy????
                      • Pj
                        The are the round ones, not the 15767? ones. A post several years ago indicated that the patent? has since ran out. I believe the discussion came up with the
                        Message 11 of 27 , Dec 12, 2012
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                          The are the round ones, not the 15767? ones. A post several years ago indicated that the patent? has since ran out. I believe the discussion came up with the same designed used on a mega Moscow tower.

                          This style:
                          http://www.flickr.com/photos/luxomni/3235638854/

                          --- On Wed, 12/12/12, David <wb8foz@...> wrote:

                          > From: David <wb8foz@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] freestanding vs guyed
                          > To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2012, 8:27 PM
                          > On 12/12/12 10:25 PM, Pj wrote:
                          >
                          > > For those who go to Dayton and/are railfans, if you
                          > northwestern Ohio
                          > > there are still plenty of active MCI? towers with KS
                          > horns on them from
                          > > Fostoria to the west/northwest. Some that I have seen
                          > appear to the eye
                          > > to be fairly lightweight that caught my eye.
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > KS horns on the enemy????
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >     coldwarcomms-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
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