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Re: [coldwarcomms] Re: Dual towers, how common?

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  • David Lesher
    ... I m sure I ve seen steel superstructure added to the top of silos such that they got more err antennas. (Skirting the were they horns? issue.) I am
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 6, 2001
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      Unnamed Administration sources reported that dsandow@... said:
      >
      >
      > The whole design of the silo never contemplated the horn
      > reflector, with its bottom-feed. So you would have to put up a new
      > steel tower if you needed to upgrade to a horn reflector (for
      > improved performance) or raise the antenna (for obstruction
      > avoidance). But there was not a "transfer" of the horn reflectors.

      I'm sure I've seen steel superstructure added to the top of silos
      such that they got more err antennas. (Skirting the "were they
      horns?" issue.) I am thinking of the one along the Ohio Turnpike
      east of Cleveland. I have the Lat/Long in my GPS still, I think.



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      Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
      is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
    • dsandow@garden.net
      ... a ... ice ... Paul Thanks for reminding me that the silos had their radio rooms in the top of the tower. That would be another reason for the solid
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 6, 2001
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        > Catawba, OH (West of Columbus) - This is a strange beast as this is
        a
        > concrete silo with a guyed lattice tower standing next to it. An
        ice
        > bridge was placed from the TOP of the silo to the lattice tower to
        > bring the waveguides from the lattice tower to the silo. (Obviously
        > this was because the radio equipement was at the top of the silo...)
        > The site was a repeater site (only two paths) and there are no
        > antennas left on the silo... So I think they transferred the horns
        > from the silo to the tower for some strange reason.

        Paul

        Thanks for reminding me that the silos had their radio rooms in the
        top of the tower. That would be another reason for the solid
        construction - to provide a benign environment for the equipment, and
        to allow an enclosed weather-proof (and OSHA-proof) stairway for the
        craftsmen to get to it.

        As I mentioned in my earlier post, the silos were built for the delay
        lens antenna. Think of a squat pyramid laid on its side, with the feed
        point only a few feet from the equipment bays. (Actually, I think the
        radio room was one level below the antenna deck because the antenna
        deck was open to the weather.)

        For more on delay lens antennas, see
        http://www.tpub.com/neets/book11/46b.htm

        The whole design of the silo never contemplated the horn
        reflector, with its bottom-feed. So you would have to put up a new
        steel tower if you needed to upgrade to a horn reflector (for
        improved performance) or raise the antenna (for obstruction
        avoidance). But there was not a "transfer" of the horn reflectors.

        The waveguide bridge - it blows my mind. I suppose it would be cheaper
        than building a new ground-level radio building to go with the new
        tower, but that never stopped ATT. Is it still there?
      • allanbourdius@hotmail.com
        Not always! The Troy Hill silo (AT #88265) north of Pittsburgh has a pair of KS horns on it. You can see them clearly in AT s photos of the site. Allan
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 6, 2001
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          Not always! The Troy Hill silo (AT #88265) north of Pittsburgh has a
          pair of KS horns on it. You can see them clearly in AT's photos of
          the site.

          Allan

          --- In coldwarcomms@y..., dsandow@g... wrote:
          > The whole design of the silo never contemplated the horn
          > reflector, with its bottom-feed. So you would have to put up a new
          > steel tower if you needed to upgrade to a horn reflector (for
          > improved performance) or raise the antenna (for obstruction
          > avoidance). But there was not a "transfer" of the horn reflectors.
        • Paul J Zawada
          ... That s not necessarily so... I ve seen many concrete silos that had short lattice structures added to the top to acommodate horns. Springfield, OH, off of
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 6, 2001
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            > The whole design of the silo never contemplated the horn
            > reflector, with its bottom-feed. So you would have to put up a new
            > steel tower if you needed to upgrade to a horn reflector (for
            > improved performance) or raise the antenna (for obstruction
            > avoidance). But there was not a "transfer" of the horn reflectors.

            That's not necessarily so... I've seen many concrete silos that had
            short lattice structures added to the top to acommodate horns.
            Springfield, OH, off of I-70, immediately comes to mind as well as
            numerous towers along the Ohio Turnpike and Indiana Toll Road. (As
            someone else has already pointed out.) There must be some reason they
            didn't take the same approach at Catawba. You are right though...
            The Catawba Silo may have never seen horns since there is no remaining
            lattice structure on the silo... The guyed tower may have been there
            the day the horns arrived. Maybe it was an experiment to determine
            which way of conversion was better...

            > The waveguide bridge - it blows my mind. I suppose it would be
            > cheaper than building a new ground-level radio building to go with
            > the new tower, but that never stopped ATT. Is it still there?

            I have been by there in over a year, but I believe it's still there...
            I've been meaning to run over there to take some pictures; maybe I
            can do that in a couple of weeks...

            --zawada
          • albertjlafrance@cs.com
            Another example of a combined silo and lattice-tower station is Waggoners Gap, PA: http://radio.ee.psu.edu/td-th/Waggoners_Gap/Waggoner s_Gap.html Albert In a
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 6, 2001
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              Another example of a combined silo and lattice-tower station is Waggoners
              Gap, PA:

              http://radio.ee.psu.edu/td-th/Waggoners_Gap/Waggoner's_Gap.html

              Albert

              In a message dated 11/6/2001 8:44:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
              paul_zawada@... writes:

              <SNIP>
              > Catawba, OH (West of Columbus) - This is a strange beast as this is a
              > concrete silo with a guyed lattice tower standing next to it. An ice
              > bridge was placed from the TOP of the silo to the lattice tower to
              > bring the waveguides from the lattice tower to the silo. (Obviously
              > this was because the radio equipement was at the top of the silo...)
              <SNIP>
            • Chris Ness
              ... Villa Rica, GA . Although one of them has been stripped of horns this Summer. It appears to the major connecting point for the west side of GA as well as a
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 9, 2001
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                On November 6, 2001 01:19 am, Pj wrote:
                > How common (or uncommon) were the use of dual towers on a site? I
                > personally only know of two towers, one in PA and one at Durham CT.
                > Any other large use of dual towers?
                >
                Villa Rica, GA . Although one of them has been stripped of horns this Summer.
                It appears to the major connecting point for the west side of GA as well as a
                CO.
                --
                Chris Ness
                mailto:mness215@... All jobs are equally easy to
                http://vivid.nbank.net/~gloster the person not doing the work.
                Holt's Law
              • albertjlafrance@cs.com
                Terry, Thanks - I d seen the term buck station somewhere, but didn t understand what it meant until now. Albert In a message dated 11/6/2001 9:28:53 AM
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 20, 2001
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                  Terry,

                  Thanks - I'd seen the term "buck station" somewhere, but didn't understand
                  what it meant until now.

                  Albert

                  In a message dated 11/6/2001 9:28:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                  tfeathers@... writes:

                  > I will agree that AT&T alternated frequency plans an almost all microwave
                  > sites. The exception was a route that had no growth potential or an
                  > engineer made a very big mistake. Not alternating the frequency plan
                  caused
                  > a "BUCK" station and you were limited to only using 1/2 of the possible
                  > channels or less. It would be time for the engineer to find a new job
                  > within AT&T.
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