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Re: [coldwarcomms] Re: Dual towers, how common?

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  • David Lesher
    ... I m sure I ve seen steel superstructure added to the top of silos such that they got more err antennas. (Skirting the were they horns? issue.) I am
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 6 3:32 AM
      Unnamed Administration sources reported that dsandow@... said:
      >
      >
      > The whole design of the silo never contemplated the horn
      > reflector, with its bottom-feed. So you would have to put up a new
      > steel tower if you needed to upgrade to a horn reflector (for
      > improved performance) or raise the antenna (for obstruction
      > avoidance). But there was not a "transfer" of the horn reflectors.

      I'm sure I've seen steel superstructure added to the top of silos
      such that they got more err antennas. (Skirting the "were they
      horns?" issue.) I am thinking of the one along the Ohio Turnpike
      east of Cleveland. I have the Lat/Long in my GPS still, I think.



      --
      A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
      & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
      Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
      is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
    • albertjlafrance@cs.com
      Yes, and one of them is a style I don t see often: the legs are vertical, rather than inclined (possibly flared outward slightly at the bottom). I believe
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 6 6:46 AM
        Yes, and one of them is a style I don't see often: the legs are vertical,
        rather than inclined (possibly flared outward slightly at the bottom). I
        believe this is an older design.

        Another two-tower site in the DC area is the big radio junction called Omps -
        it's named for a town in WV but actually located just south of the VA/WV line.

        Albert

        In a message dated 11/6/2001 8:53:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, wb8foz@...
        writes:

        > Waldorf MD. I seem to recall seeing multiple towers there.
        >
      • dsandow@garden.net
        ... a ... ice ... Paul Thanks for reminding me that the silos had their radio rooms in the top of the tower. That would be another reason for the solid
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 6 7:14 AM
          > Catawba, OH (West of Columbus) - This is a strange beast as this is
          a
          > concrete silo with a guyed lattice tower standing next to it. An
          ice
          > bridge was placed from the TOP of the silo to the lattice tower to
          > bring the waveguides from the lattice tower to the silo. (Obviously
          > this was because the radio equipement was at the top of the silo...)
          > The site was a repeater site (only two paths) and there are no
          > antennas left on the silo... So I think they transferred the horns
          > from the silo to the tower for some strange reason.

          Paul

          Thanks for reminding me that the silos had their radio rooms in the
          top of the tower. That would be another reason for the solid
          construction - to provide a benign environment for the equipment, and
          to allow an enclosed weather-proof (and OSHA-proof) stairway for the
          craftsmen to get to it.

          As I mentioned in my earlier post, the silos were built for the delay
          lens antenna. Think of a squat pyramid laid on its side, with the feed
          point only a few feet from the equipment bays. (Actually, I think the
          radio room was one level below the antenna deck because the antenna
          deck was open to the weather.)

          For more on delay lens antennas, see
          http://www.tpub.com/neets/book11/46b.htm

          The whole design of the silo never contemplated the horn
          reflector, with its bottom-feed. So you would have to put up a new
          steel tower if you needed to upgrade to a horn reflector (for
          improved performance) or raise the antenna (for obstruction
          avoidance). But there was not a "transfer" of the horn reflectors.

          The waveguide bridge - it blows my mind. I suppose it would be cheaper
          than building a new ground-level radio building to go with the new
          tower, but that never stopped ATT. Is it still there?
        • allanbourdius@hotmail.com
          Not always! The Troy Hill silo (AT #88265) north of Pittsburgh has a pair of KS horns on it. You can see them clearly in AT s photos of the site. Allan
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 6 9:53 AM
            Not always! The Troy Hill silo (AT #88265) north of Pittsburgh has a
            pair of KS horns on it. You can see them clearly in AT's photos of
            the site.

            Allan

            --- In coldwarcomms@y..., dsandow@g... wrote:
            > The whole design of the silo never contemplated the horn
            > reflector, with its bottom-feed. So you would have to put up a new
            > steel tower if you needed to upgrade to a horn reflector (for
            > improved performance) or raise the antenna (for obstruction
            > avoidance). But there was not a "transfer" of the horn reflectors.
          • Paul J Zawada
            ... That s not necessarily so... I ve seen many concrete silos that had short lattice structures added to the top to acommodate horns. Springfield, OH, off of
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 6 2:42 PM
              > The whole design of the silo never contemplated the horn
              > reflector, with its bottom-feed. So you would have to put up a new
              > steel tower if you needed to upgrade to a horn reflector (for
              > improved performance) or raise the antenna (for obstruction
              > avoidance). But there was not a "transfer" of the horn reflectors.

              That's not necessarily so... I've seen many concrete silos that had
              short lattice structures added to the top to acommodate horns.
              Springfield, OH, off of I-70, immediately comes to mind as well as
              numerous towers along the Ohio Turnpike and Indiana Toll Road. (As
              someone else has already pointed out.) There must be some reason they
              didn't take the same approach at Catawba. You are right though...
              The Catawba Silo may have never seen horns since there is no remaining
              lattice structure on the silo... The guyed tower may have been there
              the day the horns arrived. Maybe it was an experiment to determine
              which way of conversion was better...

              > The waveguide bridge - it blows my mind. I suppose it would be
              > cheaper than building a new ground-level radio building to go with
              > the new tower, but that never stopped ATT. Is it still there?

              I have been by there in over a year, but I believe it's still there...
              I've been meaning to run over there to take some pictures; maybe I
              can do that in a couple of weeks...

              --zawada
            • albertjlafrance@cs.com
              Another example of a combined silo and lattice-tower station is Waggoners Gap, PA: http://radio.ee.psu.edu/td-th/Waggoners_Gap/Waggoner s_Gap.html Albert In a
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 6 3:59 PM
                Another example of a combined silo and lattice-tower station is Waggoners
                Gap, PA:

                http://radio.ee.psu.edu/td-th/Waggoners_Gap/Waggoner's_Gap.html

                Albert

                In a message dated 11/6/2001 8:44:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                paul_zawada@... writes:

                <SNIP>
                > Catawba, OH (West of Columbus) - This is a strange beast as this is a
                > concrete silo with a guyed lattice tower standing next to it. An ice
                > bridge was placed from the TOP of the silo to the lattice tower to
                > bring the waveguides from the lattice tower to the silo. (Obviously
                > this was because the radio equipement was at the top of the silo...)
                <SNIP>
              • Chris Ness
                ... Villa Rica, GA . Although one of them has been stripped of horns this Summer. It appears to the major connecting point for the west side of GA as well as a
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 9 5:57 AM
                  On November 6, 2001 01:19 am, Pj wrote:
                  > How common (or uncommon) were the use of dual towers on a site? I
                  > personally only know of two towers, one in PA and one at Durham CT.
                  > Any other large use of dual towers?
                  >
                  Villa Rica, GA . Although one of them has been stripped of horns this Summer.
                  It appears to the major connecting point for the west side of GA as well as a
                  CO.
                  --
                  Chris Ness
                  mailto:mness215@... All jobs are equally easy to
                  http://vivid.nbank.net/~gloster the person not doing the work.
                  Holt's Law
                • albertjlafrance@cs.com
                  Terry, Thanks - I d seen the term buck station somewhere, but didn t understand what it meant until now. Albert In a message dated 11/6/2001 9:28:53 AM
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 20 8:06 PM
                    Terry,

                    Thanks - I'd seen the term "buck station" somewhere, but didn't understand
                    what it meant until now.

                    Albert

                    In a message dated 11/6/2001 9:28:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                    tfeathers@... writes:

                    > I will agree that AT&T alternated frequency plans an almost all microwave
                    > sites. The exception was a route that had no growth potential or an
                    > engineer made a very big mistake. Not alternating the frequency plan
                    caused
                    > a "BUCK" station and you were limited to only using 1/2 of the possible
                    > channels or less. It would be time for the engineer to find a new job
                    > within AT&T.
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