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Fiber ahead!

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  • David
    One question I d ask a L-L planner would be: Sprint wasn t plowing in their fiber unnoticed. What if anything was L-L doing while they were? Did the Suits
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 10 12:00 PM
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      One question I'd ask a L-L planner would be:

      Sprint wasn't plowing in their fiber unnoticed. What if anything was L-L
      doing while they were? Did the Suits assume it would be business-as-usual
      even with Sprint offering such, or....?

      AT&T had a major advantage that they could have exploited: what Doug & I
      call "ISO Layer 0" -- they already owned right-of-way and facilities to
      support fiber, if they wanted to install it.

      It's also true Ma had enormous sunk costs in its LCX and microwave; and it
      would have been hard to look past that...

      From what someone said here a few years ago, L-L was thinking L-5E was the
      next big thing. But just as ARA6 less then doubled message traffic
      throughput, 5E would be an incremental improvement. Even OC-12 was anything
      but.
    • charlie Fargis
      junking a 20 year iinvestment would not have been tolerated by the FEDS L4/L5 was hardly depreciated. Overbuidling was the thought. Then came pin drop and new
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 12 12:55 PM
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        junking a 20 year iinvestment would not have been tolerated by the FEDS
        L4/L5 was hardly depreciated.
        Overbuidling was the thought.
        Then came pin drop and new thinking.
        Government also gave lower access rates to MCI /Sprint etc vs LL.
        SO even if they wanted to drop TH/TD2/L they couldnt prove it would make money
        to do so.

        To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
        From: wb8foz@...
        Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:00:48 -0500
        Subject: [coldwarcomms] Fiber ahead!




























        One question I'd ask a L-L planner would be:



        Sprint wasn't plowing in their fiber unnoticed. What if anything was L-L

        doing while they were? Did the Suits assume it would be business-as-usual

        even with Sprint offering such, or....?



        AT&T had a major advantage that they could have exploited: what Doug & I

        call "ISO Layer 0" -- they already owned right-of-way and facilities to

        support fiber, if they wanted to install it.



        It's also true Ma had enormous sunk costs in its LCX and microwave; and it

        would have been hard to look past that...



        From what someone said here a few years ago, L-L was thinking L-5E was the

        next big thing. But just as ARA6 less then doubled message traffic

        throughput, 5E would be an incremental improvement. Even OC-12 was anything

        but.


















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David
        ... OK...thanks. I d think overbuilding L5 would cost enormous amounts just for the ft^2 needed in Undergrounds, not to mention the repeaters every mile. I
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 12 1:08 PM
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          On 2/12/12 3:55 PM, charlie Fargis wrote:

          > junking a 20 year iinvestment would not have been tolerated by the FEDS

          > L4/L5 was hardly depreciated.
          > Overbuidling was the thought.
          > Then came pin drop and new thinking.
          > Government also gave lower access rates to MCI /Sprint etc vs LL.
          > SO even if they wanted to drop TH/TD2/L they couldnt prove it would make money
          > to do so.

          OK...thanks.

          I'd think overbuilding L5 would cost enormous amounts just for the ft^2
          needed in Undergrounds, not to mention the repeaters every mile.

          I wonder how much space the early fiber gear required?
          Regenerator spacing?
        • Andrew Fornadel jr
          We didn t need the harden buildings..fiber uses precast structures with regen spacing at 20 miles along the railroad, no plant protection in volved except with
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 12 5:36 PM
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            We didn't need the harden buildings..fiber uses precast structures with regen spacing at 20 miles along the railroad, no plant protection in volved except with the Conrail, ( N/S) and utilites at the crossings. Totally different enviroment. Bring in
            a precast regen, maybe 12 X20 ( Cant remember the size), some batteries , rectifiers mounted in a bay some line bays, air conditioner in a window. Also an alarm and control bay with WDM to multiply each line with tremendous
            capacity. It was a total different world a t the begining. The line also fed the POPS, and the RR was passing thru the large cities. As long as you glue the splices, and read a reflectometer.....   no 37b, 45 bay 70b power meter...
            Andy F

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David
            ... True, but if you already have buildings and RoW at hand.... But then it may be easier to plow along the RR RoW than Long-Line s now built-up routes. I m
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 12 5:44 PM
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              On 2/12/12 8:36 PM, Andrew Fornadel jr wrote:

              > We didn't need the harden buildings..fiber uses precast structures with
              > regen spacing at 20 miles along the railroad, no plant protection in
              > volved except with the Conrail, ( N/S) and utilites at the crossings.
              > Totally different enviroment. Bring in a precast regen, maybe 12 X20 (
              > Cant remember the size), some batteries , rectifiers mounted in a bay
              > some line bays, air conditioner in a window. Also an alarm and control
              > bay with WDM to multiply each line with tremendous capacity. It was a
              > total different world at the begining. The line also fed the POPS, and
              > the RR was passing thru the large cities. As long as you glue the
              > splices, and read a reflectometer..... no 37b, 45 bay 70b power
              > meter...


              True, but if you already have buildings and RoW at hand....

              But then it may be easier to plow along the RR RoW than Long-Line's now
              built-up routes.

              I'm surprised at the 20 mile spacing; I'd been told 100-150 km.
            • Andrew Fornadel jr
              Dave, you have to deal with hundreds of property owners, cut and maintain, ROW and cross rivers...the  regen spacing was about 20 miles when we started but it
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 12 6:00 PM
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                Dave, you have to deal with hundreds of property owners, cut and maintain, ROW and cross rivers...the 
                regen spacing was about 20 miles when we started but it is probably greater now. Also the splices were about 3800 ft.( that was another guess)  That was a long time ago!   That was after the PIN DROP...Typical  section,
                Pittsburgh,Ambridge,Pa. New Brighton,Pa New Castle, Pa end of our maint area..then on to Cleveland,Oh.


                ________________________________
                From: David <wb8foz@...>
                To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 8:44 PM
                Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Fiber ahead!


                 
                On 2/12/12 8:36 PM, Andrew Fornadel jr wrote:

                > We didn't need the harden buildings..fiber uses precast structures with
                > regen spacing at 20 miles along the railroad, no plant protection in
                > volved except with the Conrail, ( N/S) and utilites at the crossings.
                > Totally different enviroment. Bring in a precast regen, maybe 12 X20 (
                > Cant remember the size), some batteries , rectifiers mounted in a bay
                > some line bays, air conditioner in a window. Also an alarm and control
                > bay with WDM to multiply each line with tremendous capacity. It was a
                > total different world at the begining. The line also fed the POPS, and
                > the RR was passing thru the large cities. As long as you glue the
                > splices, and read a reflectometer..... no 37b, 45 bay 70b power
                > meter...

                True, but if you already have buildings and RoW at hand....

                But then it may be easier to plow along the RR RoW than Long-Line's now
                built-up routes.

                I'm surprised at the 20 mile spacing; I'd been told 100-150 km.




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • David
                ... But AT&T has easements or per Blake, outright owns the RoW for its LCX. With that in hand, I wonder how RR RoW compares in hassle to theirs? Railroads may
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 12 6:09 PM
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                  On 2/12/12 9:00 PM, Andrew Fornadel jr wrote:

                  > [Y]ou have to deal with hundreds of property owners, cut and
                  > maintain, ROW and cross rivers...the regen spacing was about 20 miles
                  > when we started but it is probably greater now. Also the splices were
                  > about 3800 ft.( that was another guess) That was a long time ago!

                  > That was after the PIN DROP...Typical section, Pittsburgh,Ambridge,Pa.
                  > New Brighton,Pa New Castle, Pa end of our maint area..then on to
                  > Cleveland,Oh.

                  But AT&T has easements or per Blake, outright owns the RoW for its LCX.
                  With that in hand, I wonder how RR RoW compares in hassle to theirs?

                  Railroads may well be friendlier to glass than pipelines; who they regarded
                  as competitors.
                • Blake Bowers
                  The original fiber routes on the east coast used site built concrete buildings. Here is one in Springfield PA right at the entrance to the mall. Don t take
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 12 6:28 PM
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                    The original fiber routes on the east coast used site built concrete
                    buildings.

                    Here is one in Springfield PA right at the entrance to the mall.


                    Don't take your organs to heaven,
                    heaven knows we need them down here!
                    Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Andrew Fornadel jr" <acfornadel@...>
                    To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:36 PM
                    Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Fiber ahead!


                    We didn't need the harden buildings..fiber uses precast structures with
                    regen spacing at 20 miles along the railroad, no plant protection in volved
                    except with the Conrail, ( N/S) and utilites at the crossings. Totally
                    different enviroment. Bring in
                    a precast regen, maybe 12 X20 ( Cant remember the size), some batteries ,
                    rectifiers mounted in a bay some line bays, air conditioner in a window.
                    Also an alarm and control bay with WDM to multiply each line with tremendous
                    capacity. It was a total different world a t the begining. The line also fed
                    the POPS, and the RR was passing thru the large cities. As long as you glue
                    the splices, and read a reflectometer..... no 37b, 45 bay 70b power meter...
                    Andy F

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

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                  • David
                    BTW, the cast stone/concrete buildings are such for a reason. They do a very good job of standing up to Hey watch this gunfire by hunters & other passersby.
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 12 6:33 PM
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                      BTW, the cast stone/concrete buildings are such for a reason. They do a
                      very good job of standing up to "Hey watch this" gunfire by hunters & other
                      passersby.

                      L-L used brick for K/L-3 huts; I'd suspect they did OK at such, too.
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