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Re: [coldwarcomms] Doomsday Bunkers Make a Comeback

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  • David
    ... Wasn t there something in Boron? ISTM that s nearby... And it s not far from Goldstone. Now, if the aliens ever come to visit; that s a likely first
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 2, 2010
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      On 7/3/10 12:32 AM, Mike Cowen wrote:
      > The best we can tell it is Baker. Nobody here has knocked on the door
      > yet...

      Wasn't there something in Boron? ISTM that's nearby... And it's not far
      from Goldstone.

      Now, if the aliens ever come to visit; that's a likely first
      stop.... So maybe the bunker IS a good idea...

      > We've gone through several rounds of discussion on this EXACT topic this
      > year, and every few weeks (or so) someone in this group rediscovers this
      > story for the first time.

      Agreed. But then, ISTM every few years the developer folds, and a new one
      "discovers" the idea and finds new victims.
    • David
      What fed it? It had to have good-sized pipes to GSFC and MSFC....
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 2, 2010
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        What fed it? It had to have good-sized pipes to GSFC and MSFC....
      • Sam Etler
        Or you could just skip things you re not interested in. It s a new piece of information that aired *today*. Who cares if it s been discussed before? Actually,
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 2, 2010
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          Or you could just skip things you're not interested in. It's a new
          piece of information that aired *today*. Who cares if it's been
          discussed before?

          Actually, tell you what, we talk about AT&T all the time. I think
          that topic has pretty much been discussed about as far as we can.
          Let's move on to other topics please?

          Sheesh.

          sam

          On 7/2/10, Mike Cowen <mcowen@...> wrote:
          > The best we can tell it is Baker. Nobody here has knocked on the door
          > yet...
          >
          > We've gone through several rounds of discussion
          > on this EXACT topic this year, and every few
          > weeks (or so) someone in this group rediscovers
          > this story for the first time. There were
          > numerous messages covering it well April 17-24,
          > and May 17-18. Check the archives for "Vivos:
          > buy your own bunker!" (marketing BS), and
          > "Barstow AT&T Bunker resurfaces in the news"
          > (technical & coords). HINT: There's a link at
          > the bottom of this message called "Visit Your Group". Start there.
          >
          > The last time I posted THIS type of "old news"
          > message (on this topic) was "way back" on June 16. Yep, just 2 weeks ago!
          >
          > I know many of us are getting long in the tooth,
          > but one can get a lot more from the wealth of
          > knowledge in this group by doing more than just skimming subject lines...
          >
          > Mike
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > At 08:32 PM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >>On 7/2/10 8:34 PM, Sam Etler wrote:
          >>
          >> > I heard this on the radio coming home today. Thought it might be of
          >> > some interest in this group. In short, there's a guy refurbishing a
          >> > number of old AT&T bunkers to sell space inside to people who want a
          >> > place to live out doomsday if it ever comes.
          >>
          >>Do we know the site? It said it was in/near Baker...
          >>
          >
          > ---------------------------------------------------------------
          > Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
          > and selfless acts of beauty.
          > mcowen@... -Anonymous
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Mike Cowen
          Sam, I m not interested in getting into a pissing match with you. At the same time, your arrogance is offensive. Suddenly you re jumping into a topic you ve
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 3, 2010
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            Sam, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing
            match with you. At the same time, your arrogance is offensive.

            Suddenly you're jumping into a topic you've
            previously avoided, and you ask 'Who cares if
            it's been discussed before?', well, probably each
            of us who have already tried to add knowledge and
            value to this thread would be on that list. It's
            a shame you weren't interested in this thread the
            first two passes of sharing new info. Maybe you
            could have contributed something new, useful and
            interesting to the topic besides a bad attitude? That would be refreshing.

            Why do we keep discussing AT&T? Maybe it's
            because the scope of influence of AT&T was so
            vast we're still discovering new things, new uses
            for old things, new inventions based on their
            legacy, or discovering recently declassified
            things certain listmembers -couldn't- discuss
            previously. I have no doubt there are many more
            things we've yet to discover, and we'll continue to discuss them here.

            You want to discuss other things? Sounds good to
            me! Acknowledging it's your suggestion, why
            don't you lead off? There are 1237 other members
            awaiting your contribution. You have the floor...

            Mike


            At 10:23 PM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
            >
            >
            >Or you could just skip things you're not interested in. It's a new
            >piece of information that aired *today*. Who cares if it's been
            >discussed before?
            >
            >Actually, tell you what, we talk about AT&T all the time. I think
            >that topic has pretty much been discussed about as far as we can.
            >Let's move on to other topics please?
            >
            >Sheesh.
            >
            >sam
            >
            >On 7/2/10, Mike Cowen
            ><<mailto:mcowen%40bolderconcepts.com>mcowen@...> wrote:
            > > The best we can tell it is Baker. Nobody here has knocked on the door
            > > yet...
            > >
            > > We've gone through several rounds of discussion
            > > on this EXACT topic this year, and every few
            > > weeks (or so) someone in this group rediscovers
            > > this story for the first time. There were
            > > numerous messages covering it well April 17-24,
            > > and May 17-18. Check the archives for "Vivos:
            > > buy your own bunker!" (marketing BS), and
            > > "Barstow AT&T Bunker resurfaces in the news"
            > > (technical & coords). HINT: There's a link at
            > > the bottom of this message called "Visit Your Group". Start there.
            > >
            > > The last time I posted THIS type of "old news"
            > > message (on this topic) was "way back" on June 16. Yep, just 2 weeks ago!
            > >
            > > I know many of us are getting long in the tooth,
            > > but one can get a lot more from the wealth of
            > > knowledge in this group by doing more than just skimming subject lines...
            > >
            > > Mike
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > At 08:32 PM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>On 7/2/10 8:34 PM, Sam Etler wrote:
            > >>
            > >> > I heard this on the radio coming home today. Thought it might be of
            > >> > some interest in this group. In short, there's a guy refurbishing a
            > >> > number of old AT&T bunkers to sell space inside to people who want a
            > >> > place to live out doomsday if it ever comes.
            > >>
            > >>Do we know the site? It said it was in/near Baker...
            > >>
            > >
            > > ----------------------------------------------------------
            > > Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
            > > and selfless acts of beauty.
            > > <mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com>mcowen@... -Anonymous
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >

            ---------------------------------------------------------------
            Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
            and selfless acts of beauty.
            mcowen@... -Anonymous



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mike Cowen
            Sorry, I can t recall the details off the top of my head. We covered this pretty extensively last year for the 40th anniversary of the Moon landing. I m
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 3, 2010
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              Sorry, I can't recall the details off the top of
              my head. We covered this pretty extensively last
              year for the 40th anniversary of the Moon
              landing. I'm surprised I don't remember, it was
              of personal interest at the time... If nobody
              else has this handy, I'll dig through my archives and see if I can find it.

              I know there has been recent work on Goldstone's
              "big dish" to replace the 50-year-old gimbal
              bearings. I don't know if that project has been completed.

              Mike


              At 09:44 PM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >What fed it? It had to have good-sized pipes to GSFC and MSFC....
              >
              >

              ---------------------------------------------------------------
              Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
              and selfless acts of beauty.
              mcowen@... -Anonymous



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jim
              ... I wouldn t necessarily assume that just because it was a big dish and cost a lot of money. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_S-Band The telemetry
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 3, 2010
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                --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, David <wb8foz@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > What fed it? It had to have good-sized pipes to GSFC and MSFC....
                >

                I wouldn't necessarily assume that just because it was a big dish and cost a lot of money.

                From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_S-Band

                The telemetry could be at one of two rates, 1.6 kilobits/sec (low rate, 1/640 of the subcarrier frequency) and 51.2 kilobits/sec (high rate, 1/20 of the subcarrier frequency).

                But, at that time, 56kb was a high-speed data channel.

                I used to work around a VSAT data hub. Big impressive, expensive dish. Everyone thought it put out a lot of power, but it only radiated 60 watts - 1/10 of what a good microwave does. The 'special' part of it was the precise aiming - not the power.
              • Sam Etler
                Well my lame attempt at sarcasm about AT&T clearly failed. Next time I ll use the appropriate tags. You assume I wasn t interested in the previous
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 3, 2010
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                  Well my lame attempt at sarcasm about AT&T clearly failed. Next time
                  I'll use the appropriate <sarcasm> tags.

                  You assume I wasn't "interested" in the previous discussions because I
                  refrained from adding to the noise level by not saying anything. I
                  "avoided" the previous discussion because I had nothing to contribute.
                  I did find it interesting however. And had the California Report not
                  dragged their feet in producing that radio spot perhaps I would have
                  been able to post it in the previous discussions.

                  I'm actually genuinely curious here. Yes, the topic has been
                  discussed. Is the topic closed? What was so wrong about posting a
                  link to something related to it that was released yesterday?

                  sam

                  On 7/3/10, Mike Cowen <mcowen@...> wrote:
                  > Sam, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing
                  > match with you. At the same time, your arrogance is offensive.
                  >
                  > Suddenly you're jumping into a topic you've
                  > previously avoided, and you ask 'Who cares if
                  > it's been discussed before?', well, probably each
                  > of us who have already tried to add knowledge and
                  > value to this thread would be on that list. It's
                  > a shame you weren't interested in this thread the
                  > first two passes of sharing new info. Maybe you
                  > could have contributed something new, useful and
                  > interesting to the topic besides a bad attitude? That would be refreshing.
                  >
                  > Why do we keep discussing AT&T? Maybe it's
                  > because the scope of influence of AT&T was so
                  > vast we're still discovering new things, new uses
                  > for old things, new inventions based on their
                  > legacy, or discovering recently declassified
                  > things certain listmembers -couldn't- discuss
                  > previously. I have no doubt there are many more
                  > things we've yet to discover, and we'll continue to discuss them here.
                  >
                  > You want to discuss other things? Sounds good to
                  > me! Acknowledging it's your suggestion, why
                  > don't you lead off? There are 1237 other members
                  > awaiting your contribution. You have the floor...
                  >
                  > Mike
                  >
                  >
                  > At 10:23 PM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>Or you could just skip things you're not interested in. It's a new
                  >>piece of information that aired *today*. Who cares if it's been
                  >>discussed before?
                  >>
                  >>Actually, tell you what, we talk about AT&T all the time. I think
                  >>that topic has pretty much been discussed about as far as we can.
                  >>Let's move on to other topics please?
                  >>
                  >>Sheesh.
                  >>
                  >>sam
                  >>
                  >>On 7/2/10, Mike Cowen
                  >><<mailto:mcowen%40bolderconcepts.com>mcowen@...> wrote:
                  >> > The best we can tell it is Baker. Nobody here has knocked on the door
                  >> > yet...
                  >> >
                  >> > We've gone through several rounds of discussion
                  >> > on this EXACT topic this year, and every few
                  >> > weeks (or so) someone in this group rediscovers
                  >> > this story for the first time. There were
                  >> > numerous messages covering it well April 17-24,
                  >> > and May 17-18. Check the archives for "Vivos:
                  >> > buy your own bunker!" (marketing BS), and
                  >> > "Barstow AT&T Bunker resurfaces in the news"
                  >> > (technical & coords). HINT: There's a link at
                  >> > the bottom of this message called "Visit Your Group". Start there.
                  >> >
                  >> > The last time I posted THIS type of "old news"
                  >> > message (on this topic) was "way back" on June 16. Yep, just 2 weeks
                  >> > ago!
                  >> >
                  >> > I know many of us are getting long in the tooth,
                  >> > but one can get a lot more from the wealth of
                  >> > knowledge in this group by doing more than just skimming subject
                  >> > lines...
                  >> >
                  >> > Mike
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > At 08:32 PM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>On 7/2/10 8:34 PM, Sam Etler wrote:
                  >> >>
                  >> >> > I heard this on the radio coming home today. Thought it might be of
                  >> >> > some interest in this group. In short, there's a guy refurbishing a
                  >> >> > number of old AT&T bunkers to sell space inside to people who want a
                  >> >> > place to live out doomsday if it ever comes.
                  >> >>
                  >> >>Do we know the site? It said it was in/near Baker...
                  >> >>
                  >> >
                  >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
                  >> > Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
                  >> > and selfless acts of beauty.
                  >> > <mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com>mcowen@... -Anonymous
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > ------------------------------------
                  >> >
                  >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
                  > and selfless acts of beauty.
                  > mcowen@... -Anonymous
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Mike Cowen
                  Sam, I apologize if I misinterpreted your comments. The topic is still open, and any NEW info is welcome. Most of us are wondering if the guy (Robert Vicino)
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 3, 2010
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                    Sam, I apologize if I misinterpreted your
                    comments. The topic is still open, and any NEW
                    info is welcome. Most of us are wondering if the
                    guy (Robert Vicino) will get enough takers to
                    actually begin operation before that Mayan clock needs winding. :-)

                    Yes, I concluded you hadn't followed the previous
                    discussions based on your use of the English
                    language. You only mentioned "California Report"
                    *today* (though I don't know what it is), and
                    there was NO link in your original post. The way
                    it was phrased came across much more like "I just
                    heard about this bunker thing for the first
                    time. Does anybody know anything about it?" vs.
                    something like "Now they're promoting that
                    doomsday bunker on the radio. I'm in the
                    (location) vicinity, and heard this (local /
                    network) (news item / commercial). They were
                    promoting the (same / different [list]) features
                    compared to their previous methods we've
                    discussed". The second version implies a prior
                    knowledge and interest of the subject while
                    clearly adding something new to the
                    discussion. Your original post added the words
                    "radio" and "today", and little else. You asked
                    "Do we know the site?". Yes, and had you
                    followed the May discussions under the thread
                    "Barstow AT&T Bunker resurfaces in the news"
                    you'd already know we thoroughly hashed out all
                    the possibilities and eliminated all but Baker,
                    especially with William Miller (thanks!) locating
                    the tax records of the site. Here is a link to
                    Baker with the crosshairs on the entry portal:
                    http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=35.134715&lon=-116.214252&z=17.3&r=0&src=msl

                    You've posted some great stuff in the past, but
                    yesterday's post really missed the target. I'm
                    not asking for a literary work of art, but
                    perhaps you could add details like the broadcast
                    area, the station involved, if it was an ad or a
                    news item, any other new info they might have
                    included, or even a link. Knowing where and how
                    they are promoting this scheme IS adding value to
                    the discussion. The previous thread started with
                    a local news item in the L.A. Times. I'm in the
                    Phoenix area, and while this is supposedly within
                    their market area (based on published info), I
                    haven't heard any word of it around
                    here. Please, DO tell us something new about
                    this topic. I'd even be up for info on any other
                    similar projects (I know of two, but no details).

                    Mike



                    At 11:22 AM 7/3/2010, you wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >Well my lame attempt at sarcasm about AT&T clearly failed. Next time
                    >I'll use the appropriate <sarcasm> tags.
                    >
                    >You assume I wasn't "interested" in the previous discussions because I
                    >refrained from adding to the noise level by not saying anything. I
                    >"avoided" the previous discussion because I had nothing to contribute.
                    >I did find it interesting however. And had the California Report not
                    >dragged their feet in producing that radio spot perhaps I would have
                    >been able to post it in the previous discussions.
                    >
                    >I'm actually genuinely curious here. Yes, the topic has been
                    >discussed. Is the topic closed? What was so wrong about posting a
                    >link to something related to it that was released yesterday?
                    >
                    >sam
                    >
                    >On 7/3/10, Mike Cowen
                    ><<mailto:mcowen%40bolderconcepts.com>mcowen@...> wrote:
                    > > Sam, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing
                    > > match with you. At the same time, your arrogance is offensive.
                    > >
                    > > Suddenly you're jumping into a topic you've
                    > > previously avoided, and you ask 'Who cares if
                    > > it's been discussed before?', well, probably each
                    > > of us who have already tried to add knowledge and
                    > > value to this thread would be on that list. It's
                    > > a shame you weren't interested in this thread the
                    > > first two passes of sharing new info. Maybe you
                    > > could have contributed something new, useful and
                    > > interesting to the topic besides a bad attitude? That would be refreshing.
                    > >
                    > > Why do we keep discussing AT&T? Maybe it's
                    > > because the scope of influence of AT&T was so
                    > > vast we're still discovering new things, new uses
                    > > for old things, new inventions based on their
                    > > legacy, or discovering recently declassified
                    > > things certain listmembers -couldn't- discuss
                    > > previously. I have no doubt there are many more
                    > > things we've yet to discover, and we'll continue to discuss them here.
                    > >
                    > > You want to discuss other things? Sounds good to
                    > > me! Acknowledging it's your suggestion, why
                    > > don't you lead off? There are 1237 other members
                    > > awaiting your contribution. You have the floor...
                    > >
                    > > Mike
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > At 10:23 PM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>Or you could just skip things you're not interested in. It's a new
                    > >>piece of information that aired *today*. Who cares if it's been
                    > >>discussed before?
                    > >>
                    > >>Actually, tell you what, we talk about AT&T all the time. I think
                    > >>that topic has pretty much been discussed about as far as we can.
                    > >>Let's move on to other topics please?
                    > >>
                    > >>Sheesh.
                    > >>
                    > >>sam
                    > >>
                    > >>On 7/2/10, Mike Cowen
                    > >><<mailto:mcowen%40bolderconcepts.com>mcowen@...> wrote:
                    > >> > The best we can tell it is Baker. Nobody here has knocked on the door
                    > >> > yet...
                    > >> >
                    > >> > We've gone through several rounds of discussion
                    > >> > on this EXACT topic this year, and every few
                    > >> > weeks (or so) someone in this group rediscovers
                    > >> > this story for the first time. There were
                    > >> > numerous messages covering it well April 17-24,
                    > >> > and May 17-18. Check the archives for "Vivos:
                    > >> > buy your own bunker!" (marketing BS), and
                    > >> > "Barstow AT&T Bunker resurfaces in the news"
                    > >> > (technical & coords). HINT: There's a link at
                    > >> > the bottom of this message called "Visit Your Group". Start there.
                    > >> >
                    > >> > The last time I posted THIS type of "old news"
                    > >> > message (on this topic) was "way back" on June 16. Yep, just 2 weeks
                    > >> > ago!
                    > >> >
                    > >> > I know many of us are getting long in the tooth,
                    > >> > but one can get a lot more from the wealth of
                    > >> > knowledge in this group by doing more than just skimming subject
                    > >> > lines...
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Mike
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > At 08:32 PM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
                    > >> >>
                    > >> >>
                    > >> >>On 7/2/10 8:34 PM, Sam Etler wrote:
                    > >> >>
                    > >> >> > I heard this on the radio coming home today. Thought it might be of
                    > >> >> > some interest in this group. In short, there's a guy refurbishing a
                    > >> >> > number of old AT&T bunkers to sell space inside to people who want a
                    > >> >> > place to live out doomsday if it ever comes.
                    > >> >>
                    > >> >>Do we know the site? It said it was in/near Baker...
                    > >> >>
                    > >> >
                    > >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
                    > >> > Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
                    > >> > and selfless acts of beauty.
                    > >> > <mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com>mcowen@... -Anonymous
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > ------------------------------------
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                    > > Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
                    > > and selfless acts of beauty.
                    > > <mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com>mcowen@... -Anonymous
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >

                    ---------------------------------------------------------------
                    Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
                    and selfless acts of beauty.
                    mcowen@... -Anonymous



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Sam Etler
                    Point taken about the way I worded the e-mail. I pulled the old California trick of assuming a familiarity that of course no one outside of California would
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 3, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Point taken about the way I worded the e-mail. I pulled the old
                      California trick of assuming a familiarity that of course no one
                      outside of California would have. The California Report is a radio
                      program that airs on NPR affiliate KQED-FM in the San Francisco Bay
                      Area (and other stations I assume).

                      I would however like to point out that while perhaps the wording of my
                      original post wasn't a dissertation I did in fact include a link to
                      the report in question at the end of the original e-mail. I'm sorry
                      you missed that. I also never asked if anyone knew the site. I only
                      summarized what was in the report itself and went on my way.

                      sam

                      On 7/3/10, Mike Cowen <mcowen@...> wrote:
                      > Sam, I apologize if I misinterpreted your
                      > comments. The topic is still open, and any NEW
                      > info is welcome. Most of us are wondering if the
                      > guy (Robert Vicino) will get enough takers to
                      > actually begin operation before that Mayan clock needs winding. :-)
                      >
                      > Yes, I concluded you hadn't followed the previous
                      > discussions based on your use of the English
                      > language. You only mentioned "California Report"
                      > *today* (though I don't know what it is), and
                      > there was NO link in your original post. The way
                      > it was phrased came across much more like "I just
                      > heard about this bunker thing for the first
                      > time. Does anybody know anything about it?" vs.
                      > something like "Now they're promoting that
                      > doomsday bunker on the radio. I'm in the
                      > (location) vicinity, and heard this (local /
                      > network) (news item / commercial). They were
                      > promoting the (same / different [list]) features
                      > compared to their previous methods we've
                      > discussed". The second version implies a prior
                      > knowledge and interest of the subject while
                      > clearly adding something new to the
                      > discussion. Your original post added the words
                      > "radio" and "today", and little else. You asked
                      > "Do we know the site?". Yes, and had you
                      > followed the May discussions under the thread
                      > "Barstow AT&T Bunker resurfaces in the news"
                      > you'd already know we thoroughly hashed out all
                      > the possibilities and eliminated all but Baker,
                      > especially with William Miller (thanks!) locating
                      > the tax records of the site. Here is a link to
                      > Baker with the crosshairs on the entry portal:
                      > http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=35.134715&lon=-116.214252&z=17.3&r=0&src=msl
                      >
                      > You've posted some great stuff in the past, but
                      > yesterday's post really missed the target. I'm
                      > not asking for a literary work of art, but
                      > perhaps you could add details like the broadcast
                      > area, the station involved, if it was an ad or a
                      > news item, any other new info they might have
                      > included, or even a link. Knowing where and how
                      > they are promoting this scheme IS adding value to
                      > the discussion. The previous thread started with
                      > a local news item in the L.A. Times. I'm in the
                      > Phoenix area, and while this is supposedly within
                      > their market area (based on published info), I
                      > haven't heard any word of it around
                      > here. Please, DO tell us something new about
                      > this topic. I'd even be up for info on any other
                      > similar projects (I know of two, but no details).
                      >
                      > Mike
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > At 11:22 AM 7/3/2010, you wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>Well my lame attempt at sarcasm about AT&T clearly failed. Next time
                      >>I'll use the appropriate <sarcasm> tags.
                      >>
                      >>You assume I wasn't "interested" in the previous discussions because I
                      >>refrained from adding to the noise level by not saying anything. I
                      >>"avoided" the previous discussion because I had nothing to contribute.
                      >>I did find it interesting however. And had the California Report not
                      >>dragged their feet in producing that radio spot perhaps I would have
                      >>been able to post it in the previous discussions.
                      >>
                      >>I'm actually genuinely curious here. Yes, the topic has been
                      >>discussed. Is the topic closed? What was so wrong about posting a
                      >>link to something related to it that was released yesterday?
                      >>
                      >>sam
                      >>
                      >>On 7/3/10, Mike Cowen
                      >><<mailto:mcowen%40bolderconcepts.com>mcowen@...> wrote:
                      >> > Sam, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing
                      >> > match with you. At the same time, your arrogance is offensive.
                      >> >
                      >> > Suddenly you're jumping into a topic you've
                      >> > previously avoided, and you ask 'Who cares if
                      >> > it's been discussed before?', well, probably each
                      >> > of us who have already tried to add knowledge and
                      >> > value to this thread would be on that list. It's
                      >> > a shame you weren't interested in this thread the
                      >> > first two passes of sharing new info. Maybe you
                      >> > could have contributed something new, useful and
                      >> > interesting to the topic besides a bad attitude? That would be
                      >> > refreshing.
                      >> >
                      >> > Why do we keep discussing AT&T? Maybe it's
                      >> > because the scope of influence of AT&T was so
                      >> > vast we're still discovering new things, new uses
                      >> > for old things, new inventions based on their
                      >> > legacy, or discovering recently declassified
                      >> > things certain listmembers -couldn't- discuss
                      >> > previously. I have no doubt there are many more
                      >> > things we've yet to discover, and we'll continue to discuss them here.
                      >> >
                      >> > You want to discuss other things? Sounds good to
                      >> > me! Acknowledging it's your suggestion, why
                      >> > don't you lead off? There are 1237 other members
                      >> > awaiting your contribution. You have the floor...
                      >> >
                      >> > Mike
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > At 10:23 PM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
                      >> >>
                      >> >>
                      >> >>Or you could just skip things you're not interested in. It's a new
                      >> >>piece of information that aired *today*. Who cares if it's been
                      >> >>discussed before?
                      >> >>
                      >> >>Actually, tell you what, we talk about AT&T all the time. I think
                      >> >>that topic has pretty much been discussed about as far as we can.
                      >> >>Let's move on to other topics please?
                      >> >>
                      >> >>Sheesh.
                      >> >>
                      >> >>sam
                      >> >>
                      >> >>On 7/2/10, Mike Cowen
                      >> >><<mailto:mcowen%40bolderconcepts.com>mcowen@...> wrote:
                      >> >> > The best we can tell it is Baker. Nobody here has knocked on the door
                      >> >> > yet...
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> > We've gone through several rounds of discussion
                      >> >> > on this EXACT topic this year, and every few
                      >> >> > weeks (or so) someone in this group rediscovers
                      >> >> > this story for the first time. There were
                      >> >> > numerous messages covering it well April 17-24,
                      >> >> > and May 17-18. Check the archives for "Vivos:
                      >> >> > buy your own bunker!" (marketing BS), and
                      >> >> > "Barstow AT&T Bunker resurfaces in the news"
                      >> >> > (technical & coords). HINT: There's a link at
                      >> >> > the bottom of this message called "Visit Your Group". Start there.
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> > The last time I posted THIS type of "old news"
                      >> >> > message (on this topic) was "way back" on June 16. Yep, just 2 weeks
                      >> >> > ago!
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> > I know many of us are getting long in the tooth,
                      >> >> > but one can get a lot more from the wealth of
                      >> >> > knowledge in this group by doing more than just skimming subject
                      >> >> > lines...
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> > Mike
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> > At 08:32 PM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
                      >> >> >>
                      >> >> >>
                      >> >> >>On 7/2/10 8:34 PM, Sam Etler wrote:
                      >> >> >>
                      >> >> >> > I heard this on the radio coming home today. Thought it might be
                      >> >> >> > of
                      >> >> >> > some interest in this group. In short, there's a guy refurbishing
                      >> >> >> > a
                      >> >> >> > number of old AT&T bunkers to sell space inside to people who want
                      >> >> >> > a
                      >> >> >> > place to live out doomsday if it ever comes.
                      >> >> >>
                      >> >> >>Do we know the site? It said it was in/near Baker...
                      >> >> >>
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
                      >> >> > Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
                      >> >> > and selfless acts of beauty.
                      >> >> > <mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com>mcowen@... -Anonymous
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> > ------------------------------------
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >
                      >> >>
                      >> >
                      >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
                      >> > Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
                      >> > and selfless acts of beauty.
                      >> > <mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com>mcowen@... -Anonymous
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > ------------------------------------
                      >> >
                      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------------------------------------
                      > Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
                      > and selfless acts of beauty.
                      > mcowen@... -Anonymous
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Mike Cowen
                      It looks like Yahoo set us up. This is all I got at the time I replied: ====== I heard this on the radio coming home today. Thought it might be of some
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 3, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        It looks like Yahoo set us up. This is all I got at the time I replied:

                        ======
                        "I heard this on the radio coming home today. Thought it might be of
                        some interest in this group. In short, there's a guy refurbishing a
                        number of old AT&T bunkers to sell space inside to people who want a
                        place to live out doomsday if it ever comes.

                        Do we know the site? It said it was in/near Baker..."
                        =====

                        Earlier today, your original post with the link
                        arrived with the earlier timestamp. Had I seen
                        that message in the proper sequence, I certainly
                        would have worded things differently.

                        Mike


                        At 03:43 PM 7/3/2010, you wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >Point taken about the way I worded the e-mail. I pulled the old
                        >California trick of assuming a familiarity that of course no one
                        >outside of California would have. The California Report is a radio
                        >program that airs on NPR affiliate KQED-FM in the San Francisco Bay
                        >Area (and other stations I assume).
                        >
                        >I would however like to point out that while perhaps the wording of my
                        >original post wasn't a dissertation I did in fact include a link to
                        >the report in question at the end of the original e-mail. I'm sorry
                        >you missed that. I also never asked if anyone knew the site. I only
                        >summarized what was in the report itself and went on my way.
                        >
                        >sam
                        >
                        >On 7/3/10, Mike Cowen
                        ><<mailto:mcowen%40bolderconcepts.com>mcowen@...> wrote:
                        > > Sam, I apologize if I misinterpreted your
                        > > comments. The topic is still open, and any NEW
                        > > info is welcome. Most of us are wondering if the
                        > > guy (Robert Vicino) will get enough takers to
                        > > actually begin operation before that Mayan clock needs winding. :-)
                        > >
                        > > Yes, I concluded you hadn't followed the previous
                        > > discussions based on your use of the English
                        > > language. You only mentioned "California Report"
                        > > *today* (though I don't know what it is), and
                        > > there was NO link in your original post. The way
                        > > it was phrased came across much more like "I just
                        > > heard about this bunker thing for the first
                        > > time. Does anybody know anything about it?" vs.
                        > > something like "Now they're promoting that
                        > > doomsday bunker on the radio. I'm in the
                        > > (location) vicinity, and heard this (local /
                        > > network) (news item / commercial). They were
                        > > promoting the (same / different [list]) features
                        > > compared to their previous methods we've
                        > > discussed". The second version implies a prior
                        > > knowledge and interest of the subject while
                        > > clearly adding something new to the
                        > > discussion. Your original post added the words
                        > > "radio" and "today", and little else. You asked
                        > > "Do we know the site?". Yes, and had you
                        > > followed the May discussions under the thread
                        > > "Barstow AT&T Bunker resurfaces in the news"
                        > > you'd already know we thoroughly hashed out all
                        > > the possibilities and eliminated all but Baker,
                        > > especially with William Miller (thanks!) locating
                        > > the tax records of the site. Here is a link to
                        > > Baker with the crosshairs on the entry portal:
                        > >
                        > <http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=35.134715&lon=-116.214252&z=17.3&r=0&src=msl>http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=35.134715&lon=-116.214252&z=17.3&r=0&src=msl
                        > >
                        > > You've posted some great stuff in the past, but
                        > > yesterday's post really missed the target. I'm
                        > > not asking for a literary work of art, but
                        > > perhaps you could add details like the broadcast
                        > > area, the station involved, if it was an ad or a
                        > > news item, any other new info they might have
                        > > included, or even a link. Knowing where and how
                        > > they are promoting this scheme IS adding value to
                        > > the discussion. The previous thread started with
                        > > a local news item in the L.A. Times. I'm in the
                        > > Phoenix area, and while this is supposedly within
                        > > their market area (based on published info), I
                        > > haven't heard any word of it around
                        > > here. Please, DO tell us something new about
                        > > this topic. I'd even be up for info on any other
                        > > similar projects (I know of two, but no details).
                        > >
                        > > Mike
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > At 11:22 AM 7/3/2010, you wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>Well my lame attempt at sarcasm about AT&T clearly failed. Next time
                        > >>I'll use the appropriate <sarcasm> tags.
                        > >>
                        > >>You assume I wasn't "interested" in the previous discussions because I
                        > >>refrained from adding to the noise level by not saying anything. I
                        > >>"avoided" the previous discussion because I had nothing to contribute.
                        > >>I did find it interesting however. And had the California Report not
                        > >>dragged their feet in producing that radio spot perhaps I would have
                        > >>been able to post it in the previous discussions.
                        > >>
                        > >>I'm actually genuinely curious here. Yes, the topic has been
                        > >>discussed. Is the topic closed? What was so wrong about posting a
                        > >>link to something related to it that was released yesterday?
                        > >>
                        > >>sam
                        > >>
                        > >>On 7/3/10, Mike Cowen
                        > >><<mailto:mcowen%40bolderconcepts.com><mailto:m
                        > cowen%40bolderconcepts.com>mcowen@...> wrote:
                        > >> > Sam, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing
                        > >> > match with you. At the same time, your arrogance is offensive.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Suddenly you're jumping into a topic you've
                        > >> > previously avoided, and you ask 'Who cares if
                        > >> > it's been discussed before?', well, probably each
                        > >> > of us who have already tried to add knowledge and
                        > >> > value to this thread would be on that list. It's
                        > >> > a shame you weren't interested in this thread the
                        > >> > first two passes of sharing new info. Maybe you
                        > >> > could have contributed something new, useful and
                        > >> > interesting to the topic besides a bad attitude? That would be
                        > >> > refreshing.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Why do we keep discussing AT&T? Maybe it's
                        > >> > because the scope of influence of AT&T was so
                        > >> > vast we're still discovering new things, new uses
                        > >> > for old things, new inventions based on their
                        > >> > legacy, or discovering recently declassified
                        > >> > things certain listmembers -couldn't- discuss
                        > >> > previously. I have no doubt there are many more
                        > >> > things we've yet to discover, and we'll continue to discuss them here.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > You want to discuss other things? Sounds good to
                        > >> > me! Acknowledging it's your suggestion, why
                        > >> > don't you lead off? There are 1237 other members
                        > >> > awaiting your contribution. You have the floor...
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Mike
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> > At 10:23 PM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>Or you could just skip things you're not interested in. It's a new
                        > >> >>piece of information that aired *today*. Who cares if it's been
                        > >> >>discussed before?
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>Actually, tell you what, we talk about AT&T all the time. I think
                        > >> >>that topic has pretty much been discussed about as far as we can.
                        > >> >>Let's move on to other topics please?
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>Sheesh.
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>sam
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>On 7/2/10, Mike Cowen
                        > >> >><<mailto:mcowen%40bolderconcepts.com>mcowen@...> wrote:
                        > >> >> > The best we can tell it is Baker. Nobody here has knocked on the door
                        > >> >> > yet...
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> > We've gone through several rounds of discussion
                        > >> >> > on this EXACT topic this year, and every few
                        > >> >> > weeks (or so) someone in this group rediscovers
                        > >> >> > this story for the first time. There were
                        > >> >> > numerous messages covering it well April 17-24,
                        > >> >> > and May 17-18. Check the archives for "Vivos:
                        > >> >> > buy your own bunker!" (marketing BS), and
                        > >> >> > "Barstow AT&T Bunker resurfaces in the news"
                        > >> >> > (technical & coords). HINT: There's a link at
                        > >> >> > the bottom of this message called "Visit Your Group". Start there.
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> > The last time I posted THIS type of "old news"
                        > >> >> > message (on this topic) was "way back" on June 16. Yep, just 2 weeks
                        > >> >> > ago!
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> > I know many of us are getting long in the tooth,
                        > >> >> > but one can get a lot more from the wealth of
                        > >> >> > knowledge in this group by doing more than just skimming subject
                        > >> >> > lines...
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> > Mike
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> > At 08:32 PM 7/2/2010, you wrote:
                        > >> >> >>
                        > >> >> >>
                        > >> >> >>On 7/2/10 8:34 PM, Sam Etler wrote:
                        > >> >> >>
                        > >> >> >> > I heard this on the radio coming home today. Thought it might be
                        > >> >> >> > of
                        > >> >> >> > some interest in this group. In short, there's a guy refurbishing
                        > >> >> >> > a
                        > >> >> >> > number of old AT&T bunkers to sell space inside to people who want
                        > >> >> >> > a
                        > >> >> >> > place to live out doomsday if it ever comes.
                        > >> >> >>
                        > >> >> >>Do we know the site? It said it was in/near Baker...
                        > >> >> >>
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
                        > >> >> > Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
                        > >> >> > and selfless acts of beauty.
                        > >> >> > <mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com>mcowen@... -Anonymous
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> > ------------------------------------
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >
                        > >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
                        > >> > Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
                        > >> > and selfless acts of beauty.
                        > >> >
                        > <mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com><mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com>mcowen@...
                        > -Anonymous
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> > ------------------------------------
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                        > > Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
                        > > and selfless acts of beauty.
                        > > <mailto:mcowen%40mindspring.com>mcowen@... -Anonymous
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >

                        ---------------------------------------------------------------
                        Mike Cowen Practice random acts of kindness
                        and selfless acts of beauty.
                        mcowen@... -Anonymous



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • David
                        ... I looked and while we ve discussed Garden City-GSFC-Suitland; I didn t see such discussion on Goldstone. I assume NASA insisted on redundant routes. ...
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 7, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On 7/3/10 9:53 AM, Jim wrote:

                          >> What fed it? It had to have good-sized pipes to GSFC and MSFC....

                          I looked and while we've discussed Garden City-GSFC-Suitland; I didn't see
                          such discussion on Goldstone. I assume NASA insisted on redundant routes.

                          > The telemetry could be at one of two rates, 1.6 kilobits/sec (low rate,
                          > 1/640 of the subcarrier frequency) and 51.2 kilobits/sec (high rate,
                          > 1/20 of the subcarrier frequency).
                          >
                          > But, at that time, 56kb was a high-speed data channel.

                          Indeed. Ma spend big $$$$ on their Data Under Voice sometime after that,
                          and it delivered a phenomenal coast-to-coast DS-1 channel, yes, a full
                          1.544 MB/s.

                          As I recall, contemporaneously, the original IMP's [predecessors to the
                          backbone routers...] were fed at 50 kb/s, and had an inverse mux & ?8?
                          circuits with modems.

                          > I used to work around a VSAT data hub. Big impressive, expensive dish.
                          > Everyone thought it put out a lot of power, but it only radiated 60
                          > watts - 1/10 of what a good microwave does. The 'special' part of it was
                          > the precise aiming - not the power.

                          What was the power density at the focus.... THAT's what counts. Just like
                          our favorite horns....
                        • OZOB99
                          ... Here s a couple of pages with some answers: http://tmo.jpl.nasa.gov/progress_report2/II/IIX.PDF
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jul 7, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, David <wb8foz@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On 7/3/10 9:53 AM, Jim wrote:
                            >
                            > >> What fed it? It had to have good-sized pipes to GSFC and MSFC....
                            >
                            > I looked and while we've discussed Garden City-GSFC-Suitland; I didn't see
                            > such discussion on Goldstone. I assume NASA insisted on redundant routes.
                            >
                            > > The telemetry could be at one of two rates, 1.6 kilobits/sec (low rate,
                            > > 1/640 of the subcarrier frequency) and 51.2 kilobits/sec (high rate,
                            > > 1/20 of the subcarrier frequency).
                            > >
                            > > But, at that time, 56kb was a high-speed data channel.
                            >
                            > Indeed. Ma spend big $$$$ on their Data Under Voice sometime after that,
                            > and it delivered a phenomenal coast-to-coast DS-1 channel, yes, a full
                            > 1.544 MB/s.
                            >
                            > As I recall, contemporaneously, the original IMP's [predecessors to the
                            > backbone routers...] were fed at 50 kb/s, and had an inverse mux & ?8?
                            > circuits with modems.


                            Here's a couple of pages with some answers:

                            http://tmo.jpl.nasa.gov/progress_report2/II/IIX.PDF

                            http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/38871/1/03-0834.pdf
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