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Nice old article about original NORAD Combat Ops Center

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  • Tim
    http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 28, 2010
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    • taskforceleader
      Nice article and great photos. From what few photos I have seen of the Notch at Westover, it appears to have been a mirror site ? The Combat Ops Room at The
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 29, 2010
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        Nice article and great photos.

        From what few photos I have seen of the Notch at Westover, it appears to have been a "mirror site"?

        The Combat Ops Room at The Notch actually looked a little more modern than the one in the article. The Notch also had a video system like the one in the article also.

        1. Where there any major differences between the two?
        2. When Westover (and The Notch) shut down in 72, what replaced it?

        --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Tim <polohat@...> wrote:
        >
        > http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&f=false
        >
      • Jim Conrad
        The picture of the Combat Operations Center looks about the same as the one I visited at March AFB around 1981. ...
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 29, 2010
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          The picture of the Combat Operations Center looks about the same as
          the one I visited at March AFB around 1981.


          At 09:06 AM 6/29/2010, you wrote:
          >Nice article and great photos.
          >
          > From what few photos I have seen of the Notch at Westover, it
          > appears to have been a "mirror site"?
          >
          >The Combat Ops Room at The Notch actually looked a little more
          >modern than the one in the article. The Notch also had a video
          >system like the one in the article also.
          >
          >1. Where there any major differences between the two?
          >2. When Westover (and The Notch) shut down in 72, what replaced it?
          >
          >--- In
          ><mailto:coldwarcomms%40yahoogroups.com>coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com,
          >Tim <polohat@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > <http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&f=false>http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&f=false

          <:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:>
          Jim Conrad - jjc@...
          757-560-5970 - 757-457-7709 Fax
          CAGE 0UD60 - http://www.oceanviewcom.com

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • taskforceleader
          Where on base was it? Hard, semi/hard or soft?
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 29, 2010
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            Where on base was it?
            Hard, semi/hard or soft?


            --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Jim Conrad <jjc@...> wrote:
            >
            > The picture of the Combat Operations Center looks about the same as
            > the one I visited at March AFB around 1981.
            >
            >
            > At 09:06 AM 6/29/2010, you wrote:
            > >Nice article and great photos.
            > >
            > > From what few photos I have seen of the Notch at Westover, it
            > > appears to have been a "mirror site"?
            > >
            > >The Combat Ops Room at The Notch actually looked a little more
            > >modern than the one in the article. The Notch also had a video
            > >system like the one in the article also.
            > >
            > >1. Where there any major differences between the two?
            > >2. When Westover (and The Notch) shut down in 72, what replaced it?
            > >
            > >--- In
            > ><mailto:coldwarcomms%40yahoogroups.com>coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com,
            > >Tim <polohat@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > <http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&f=false>http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&f=false
            >
            > <:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:>
            > Jim Conrad - jjc@...
            > 757-560-5970 - 757-457-7709 Fax
            > CAGE 0UD60 - http://www.oceanviewcom.com
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Jim Conrad
            ... I don t remember where on the base it is, so long ago. It was above ground and struck me as soft but it could have been semi, definitely was not hard.
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 29, 2010
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              At 10:16 AM 6/29/2010, you wrote:
              >Where on base was it?
              >Hard, semi/hard or soft?

              I don't remember where on the base it is, so long
              ago. It was above ground and struck me as soft
              but it could have been semi, definitely was not
              hard. March was a Numbered Air Force HQ at the
              time. I don't recall if they had B-52's but I do recall they had KC-135's.


              >--- In
              ><mailto:coldwarcomms%40yahoogroups.com>coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com,
              >Jim Conrad <jjc@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > The picture of the Combat Operations Center looks about the same as
              > > the one I visited at March AFB around 1981.
              > >
              > >
              > > At 09:06 AM 6/29/2010, you wrote:
              > > >Nice article and great photos.
              > > >
              > > > From what few photos I have seen of the Notch at Westover, it
              > > > appears to have been a "mirror site"?
              > > >
              > > >The Combat Ops Room at The Notch actually looked a little more
              > > >modern than the one in the article. The Notch also had a video
              > > >system like the one in the article also.
              > > >
              > > >1. Where there any major differences between the two?
              > > >2. When Westover (and The Notch) shut down in 72, what replaced it?
              > > >
              > > >--- In
              > > ><mailto:coldwarcomms%40yahoogroups.com>coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com,
              > > >Tim <polohat@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > <<http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&f=false>http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&f=false>http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&f=false
              > >
              > > <:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:>
              > > Jim Conrad - jjc@...
              > > 757-560-5970 - 757-457-7709 Fax
              > > CAGE 0UD60 - <http://www.oceanviewcom.com>http://www.oceanviewcom.com
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >

              <:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:>
              Jim Conrad - jjc@...
              757-560-5970 - 757-457-7709 Fax
              CAGE 0UD60 - http://www.oceanviewcom.com

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Polo Hat
              The article is about the NORAD COC on Boulder St at what was Ent AFB. Off-net intel indicates the building is still extant & in use by the US Olympic Training
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 29, 2010
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                The article is about the NORAD COC on Boulder St at what was Ent AFB. Off-net intel indicates the building is still extant & in use by the US Olympic Training Center. A local asset code-named MAD DOG has been tasked with generating a better SITREP.

                Nothing on Ent was hardened in a fashion similar to the 8th AF (SAC) COC at the Notch, probably because it was so far inland that hardening it would have been an insult to NORAD & ADC. Things changed shortly afterwards as the main threat developed ICBMs, and thus the COC in Cheyenne Mountain.

                My educated(?) guess is that when the Notch closed, the 8th AF COC mission was absorbed by their EC-135, as that was an era when they realized Soviet ICBMs had CEPs/yields capable of taking out most ground sites if they knew about them.

                When 8th AF moved to Barksdale AFB, their ops center (I don't know if they called it a Combat Operations Center) was and I assume still-is in the basement or sub-basement of their HQ building. There doesn't seem to be a lot of open-source info about it, which initially led me to suspect their COC was at an off-base annex similar to the Notch.

                For the 15th AF (SAC) at March AFB in California, their COC was on-base in a windowless, semi-hardened building, #2605. Other than classifieds & some modern gear removed, much of the COC main room is intact today, unused since 15th AF moved to Travis AFB in 1993. Supposedly it is or is under consideration to become registered as a National Historic Site.

                Tim

                Sent from my iPhone because I can.

                On Jun 29, 2010, at 7:06, "taskforceleader" <mcfoster@...> wrote:

                > Nice article and great photos.
                >
                > From what few photos I have seen of the Notch at Westover, it appears to have been a "mirror site"?
                >
                > The Combat Ops Room at The Notch actually looked a little more modern than the one in the article. The Notch also had a video system like the one in the article also.
                >
                > 1. Where there any major differences between the two?
                > 2. When Westover (and The Notch) shut down in 72, what replaced it?
                >
                > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Tim <polohat@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&f=false
                > >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • taskforceleader
                A GOOGLE search shows Bldg #2605 at March AFB to be a Distance Learning Center. http://www.atsc.army.mil/itsd/vtt/DistanceLearningSites.asp
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 29, 2010
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                  A GOOGLE search shows Bldg #2605 at March AFB to be a Distance Learning Center.

                  http://www.atsc.army.mil/itsd/vtt/DistanceLearningSites.asp

                  --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Polo Hat <polohat@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The article is about the NORAD COC on Boulder St at what was Ent AFB. Off-net intel indicates the building is still extant & in use by the US Olympic Training Center. A local asset code-named MAD DOG has been tasked with generating a better SITREP.
                  >
                  > Nothing on Ent was hardened in a fashion similar to the 8th AF (SAC) COC at the Notch, probably because it was so far inland that hardening it would have been an insult to NORAD & ADC. Things changed shortly afterwards as the main threat developed ICBMs, and thus the COC in Cheyenne Mountain.
                  >
                  > My educated(?) guess is that when the Notch closed, the 8th AF COC mission was absorbed by their EC-135, as that was an era when they realized Soviet ICBMs had CEPs/yields capable of taking out most ground sites if they knew about them.
                  >
                  > When 8th AF moved to Barksdale AFB, their ops center (I don't know if they called it a Combat Operations Center) was and I assume still-is in the basement or sub-basement of their HQ building. There doesn't seem to be a lot of open-source info about it, which initially led me to suspect their COC was at an off-base annex similar to the Notch.
                  >
                  > For the 15th AF (SAC) at March AFB in California, their COC was on-base in a windowless, semi-hardened building, #2605. Other than classifieds & some modern gear removed, much of the COC main room is intact today, unused since 15th AF moved to Travis AFB in 1993. Supposedly it is or is under consideration to become registered as a National Historic Site.
                  >
                  > Tim
                  >
                  > Sent from my iPhone because I can.
                  >
                  > On Jun 29, 2010, at 7:06, "taskforceleader" <mcfoster@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Nice article and great photos.
                  > >
                  > > From what few photos I have seen of the Notch at Westover, it appears to have been a "mirror site"?
                  > >
                  > > The Combat Ops Room at The Notch actually looked a little more modern than the one in the article. The Notch also had a video system like the one in the article also.
                  > >
                  > > 1. Where there any major differences between the two?
                  > > 2. When Westover (and The Notch) shut down in 72, what replaced it?
                  > >
                  > > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Tim <polohat@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&f=false
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • OZOB99
                  ... Interestingly(since Ent AFB was closed in 1976) it was still listed as a terminal in 1983 & 1985 on the JCS Alerting net(JCSAN) along with Cheyenne Mt;
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 29, 2010
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                    >
                    > Nothing on Ent was hardened in a fashion similar to the 8th AF (SAC) COC at the Notch, probably because it was so far inland that hardening it would have been an insult to NORAD & ADC. Things changed shortly afterwards as the main threat developed ICBMs, and thus the COC in Cheyenne Mountain.

                    Interestingly(since Ent AFB was closed in 1976) it was still listed as a terminal in 1983 & 1985 on the JCS Alerting net(JCSAN) along with Cheyenne Mt; could have been a record error, or?

                    Westover was shown as a terminal on a JCSAN circuit in 1980.

                    > For the 15th AF (SAC) at March AFB in California, their COC was on-base in a windowless, semi-hardened building, #2605. Other than classifieds & some modern gear removed, much of the COC main room is intact today, unused since 15th AF moved to Travis AFB in 1993. Supposedly it is or is under consideration to become registered as a National Historic Site.

                    March AFB was a terminal on NEACP & BLUE EAGLE A/G networks in the 1980's,however since the Strawberry Peak GEP is not that far away, March AFB may not have been a GEP but had access via land lines to the networks.

                    Apparantly March AFB was not on JSCAN in the 1980's.
                  • Tim
                    ... I dunno how long Ent sat being it became the USOC training center, but this reminds me of something else. Back in 2002 after moving to California, one of
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 29, 2010
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                      On 6/29/2010 2:44 PM, OZOB99 wrote:
                      >
                      > > Nothing on Ent was hardened in a fashion similar to the 8th AF (SAC)
                      > COC at the Notch, probably because it was so far inland that hardening
                      > it would have been an insult to NORAD & ADC. Things changed shortly
                      > afterwards as the main threat developed ICBMs, and thus the COC in
                      > Cheyenne Mountain.
                      >
                      > Interestingly(since Ent AFB was closed in 1976) it was still listed as
                      > a terminal in 1983 & 1985 on the JCS Alerting net(JCSAN) along with
                      > Cheyenne Mt; could have been a record error, or?
                      >
                      I dunno how long Ent sat being it became the USOC training center,
                      but this reminds me of something else. Back in 2002 after moving to
                      California, one of my Cold War archaeologist priorities was getting up
                      to Santa Rosa to see the former FEMA Federal Regional Center, which I'd
                      finally placed at the 'bomb dump' at the former Naval Auxillary Air
                      Station Santa Rosa. The place was clearly abandoned (turns out it
                      was sometime in the early 1990s), but with some neat stuff abandoned
                      in-place inside some of the old munitions igloos that DCPA/FEMA had
                      occupied since the 1950s. I managed to get inside the igloo that'd been
                      the main radio room with again, lot's of evidence that the place had
                      been completely abandoned & unused for at least a decade, & for the heck
                      of it, I picked-up the handset of the old rotary-dial phone mounted on
                      the wall. I can't remember now if I got a dialtone, or just static,
                      but that old phone line was still getting power, as-was the old
                      intrusion alarm system. Now certainly JCSAN was a wee bit more
                      important than that phone at the old, abandoned FEMA site, but there's
                      certainly precedent for circuits just being forgotten about & not
                      canceled out. I'd like to think with JCSAN though, it was a record error.

                      By the way, funny thing about that FEMA Santa Rosa phone is that it's
                      phone # was circulating on the web in some of those New World Order
                      paranoia web pages as being supporting evidence that the place was still
                      in operation (disguised as being abandoned) & having at least 7 levels
                      below ground, being used to test psychotropic agents on naked teenage
                      runaways, etc.

                      >
                      > Westover was shown as a terminal on a JCSAN circuit in 1980.
                      >
                      Perhaps in 1980, Westover still had the U-2 image processing
                      facility, was a forward operating base for a PACCS aircraft, had
                      bomber/tanker aircraft assigned to SIOP, or their Giant Talk HF/SSB
                      station was still in operation?
                      >
                      >
                      > March AFB was a terminal on NEACP & BLUE EAGLE A/G networks in the
                      > 1980's,however since the Strawberry Peak GEP is not that far away,
                      > March AFB may not have been a GEP but had access via land lines to the
                      > networks.
                      >
                      > Apparantly March AFB was not on JSCAN in the 1980's.
                      >
                      I think March was a popular NEACP OL when Reagan was in California,
                      with AF1 usually flying in to NAS Pt Mugu. Plus it would have often had
                      a PACCS plane for 15th AF. I dunno what sort of LOS there was between
                      March & Strawberry Peak, in terms of whether there would have been a GEP
                      right there at March. Obviously they could plug in the land-lines, but
                      even at Offutt AFB the aircraft often burn on MUX while sitting on the
                      ground.

                      March certainly should have had JCSAN. They got rid of their Giant
                      Talk station well before the 15th AF left. I still have the little
                      article that appeared in Air Force Times about it in my files.


                      Mike Makar, if you're still on the list, we need your input!! :)



                      Tim


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Rod Lannon
                      We always referred to them as Command Posts. Ent AFB was the size of a postage stamp! Just a large square block with standard military style fencing around it,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 29, 2010
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                        We always referred to them as Command Posts.
                        Ent AFB was the size of a postage stamp! Just
                        a large square block with standard military style fencing
                        around it, with the appropriate warning signs.
                        Incidentally, Ent was surrounded. at the time (1976)
                        by a residential neighborhood.

                        I believe the entire complex was sold to the USOC for
                        a dollar.

                        COC or Command Post, its all semantics. I would not have
                        felt Nuke safe in any of them, with the exception of NOARD at CMF.
                        The dirty little secret is none of them could have survived
                        a direct hit, after 1975 or do.

                        Yes, this includes Bldg. 500 at Offutt AFB. It may be 3
                        stories underground, very secure, and high tech... it
                        was never designed for any direct hit, to begin with.
                        LeMay knew it would be heavily targeted, no sense
                        in spending billions on it.

                        Redundant CP's, as you mentioned, were the NECAP
                        or "Looking Glass" aircraft. And some of these were not
                        EMP hardened.

                        Rod









                        Polo Hat wrote:
                        > The article is about the NORAD COC on Boulder St at what was Ent AFB. Off-net intel indicates the building is still extant & in use by the US Olympic Training Center. A local asset code-named MAD DOG has been tasked with generating a better SITREP.
                        >
                        > Nothing on Ent was hardened in a fashion similar to the 8th AF (SAC) COC at the Notch, probably because it was so far inland that hardening it would have been an insult to NORAD & ADC. Things changed shortly afterwards as the main threat developed ICBMs, and thus the COC in Cheyenne Mountain.
                        >
                        > My educated(?) guess is that when the Notch closed, the 8th AF COC mission was absorbed by their EC-135, as that was an era when they realized Soviet ICBMs had CEPs/yields capable of taking out most ground sites if they knew about them.
                        >
                        > When 8th AF moved to Barksdale AFB, their ops center (I don't know if they called it a Combat Operations Center) was and I assume still-is in the basement or sub-basement of their HQ building. There doesn't seem to be a lot of open-source info about it, which initially led me to suspect their COC was at an off-base annex similar to the Notch.
                        >
                        > For the 15th AF (SAC) at March AFB in California, their COC was on-base in a windowless, semi-hardened building, #2605. Other than classifieds & some modern gear removed, much of the COC main room is intact today, unused since 15th AF moved to Travis AFB in 1993. Supposedly it is or is under consideration to become registered as a National Historic Site.
                        >
                        > Tim
                        >
                        > Sent from my iPhone because I can.
                        >
                        > On Jun 29, 2010, at 7:06, "taskforceleader" <mcfoster@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >> Nice article and great photos.
                        >>
                        >> From what few photos I have seen of the Notch at Westover, it appears to have been a "mirror site"?
                        >>
                        >> The Combat Ops Room at The Notch actually looked a little more modern than the one in the article. The Notch also had a video system like the one in the article also.
                        >>
                        >> 1. Where there any major differences between the two?
                        >> 2. When Westover (and The Notch) shut down in 72, what replaced it?
                        >>
                        >> --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Tim <polohat@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >>> http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&f=false
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
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                      • Polo Hat
                        A Combat Ops Center is usually a Command Post of some sort, but a CP isn t always a COC. The USAF maintained the separate terms & titles for a reason. I don t
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 29, 2010
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                          A Combat Ops Center is usually a Command Post of some sort, but a CP isn't always a COC.

                          The USAF maintained the separate terms & titles for a reason.

                          I don't think it's ever been a secret to anyone that none would have survived a direct hit.

                          But other than the above, I agree with Rod completely! :)

                          Sent from my iPhone because I can.

                          On Jun 29, 2010, at 19:43, Rod Lannon <biggrod@...> wrote:

                          > We always referred to them as Command Posts.
                          > Ent AFB was the size of a postage stamp! Just
                          > a large square block with standard military style fencing
                          > around it, with the appropriate warning signs.
                          > Incidentally, Ent was surrounded. at the time (1976)
                          > by a residential neighborhood.
                          >
                          > I believe the entire complex was sold to the USOC for
                          > a dollar.
                          >
                          > COC or Command Post, its all semantics. I would not have
                          > felt Nuke safe in any of them, with the exception of NOARD at CMF.
                          > The dirty little secret is none of them could have survived
                          > a direct hit, after 1975 or do.
                          >
                          > Yes, this includes Bldg. 500 at Offutt AFB. It may be 3
                          > stories underground, very secure, and high tech... it
                          > was never designed for any direct hit, to begin with.
                          > LeMay knew it would be heavily targeted, no sense
                          > in spending billions on it.
                          >
                          > Redundant CP's, as you mentioned, were the NECAP
                          > or "Looking Glass" aircraft. And some of these were not
                          > EMP hardened.
                          >
                          > Rod
                          >
                          > Polo Hat wrote:
                          > > The article is about the NORAD COC on Boulder St at what was Ent AFB. Off-net intel indicates the building is still extant & in use by the US Olympic Training Center. A local asset code-named MAD DOG has been tasked with generating a better SITREP.
                          > >
                          > > Nothing on Ent was hardened in a fashion similar to the 8th AF (SAC) COC at the Notch, probably because it was so far inland that hardening it would have been an insult to NORAD & ADC. Things changed shortly afterwards as the main threat developed ICBMs, and thus the COC in Cheyenne Mountain.
                          > >
                          > > My educated(?) guess is that when the Notch closed, the 8th AF COC mission was absorbed by their EC-135, as that was an era when they realized Soviet ICBMs had CEPs/yields capable of taking out most ground sites if they knew about them.
                          > >
                          > > When 8th AF moved to Barksdale AFB, their ops center (I don't know if they called it a Combat Operations Center) was and I assume still-is in the basement or sub-basement of their HQ building. There doesn't seem to be a lot of open-source info about it, which initially led me to suspect their COC was at an off-base annex similar to the Notch.
                          > >
                          > > For the 15th AF (SAC) at March AFB in California, their COC was on-base in a windowless, semi-hardened building, #2605. Other than classifieds & some modern gear removed, much of the COC main room is intact today, unused since 15th AF moved to Travis AFB in 1993. Supposedly it is or is under consideration to become registered as a National Historic Site.
                          > >
                          > > Tim
                          > >
                          > > Sent from my iPhone because I can.
                          > >
                          > > On Jun 29, 2010, at 7:06, "taskforceleader" <mcfoster@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >> Nice article and great photos.
                          > >>
                          > >> From what few photos I have seen of the Notch at Westover, it appears to have been a "mirror site"?
                          > >>
                          > >> The Combat Ops Room at The Notch actually looked a little more modern than the one in the article. The Notch also had a video system like the one in the article also.
                          > >>
                          > >> 1. Where there any major differences between the two?
                          > >> 2. When Westover (and The Notch) shut down in 72, what replaced it?
                          > >>
                          > >> --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Tim <polohat@...> wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >>> http://books.google.com/books?id=WSYDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&ots=GjXhRWoJ4M&dq=SAC%20%2B%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=SAC%20+%20%22Combat%20Operations%20Center%22&f=false
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                          > > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2971 - Release Date: 06/29/10 14:35:00
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • OZOB99
                          ... Strawberry Peak had a link to San Bernadino & Sanbo(telco nick)was probably the serving test center for March with connectivity to the base, either
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jun 30, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > >
                            >> >
                            > I think March was a popular NEACP OL when Reagan was in California,
                            > with AF1 usually flying in to NAS Pt Mugu. Plus it would have often had
                            > a PACCS plane for 15th AF. I dunno what sort of LOS there was between
                            > March & Strawberry Peak, in terms of whether there would have been a GEP
                            > right there at March. Obviously they could plug in the land-lines, but
                            > even at Offutt AFB the aircraft often burn on MUX while sitting on the
                            > ground.


                            Strawberry Peak had a link to San Bernadino & Sanbo(telco nick)was probably the serving test center for March with connectivity to the base, either carrier/cable or a MW shot.
                          • buchcty
                            The GEP was moved from March to Strawberry Peak to give better airborne coverage. March sits in quite a hole. The EC-135s that sat alert had nothing to do
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 1, 2010
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                              The GEP was moved from March to Strawberry Peak to give better airborne coverage. March sits in quite a hole.

                              The EC-135s that sat alert had nothing to do with 15th AF at least not while there was a GEP there. March was a forward operating location for Blue Eagle (CINCPACs ABNCP).

                              Stoney

                              --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "OZOB99" <ozob99@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > > >
                              > >> >
                              > > I think March was a popular NEACP OL when Reagan was in California,
                              > > with AF1 usually flying in to NAS Pt Mugu. Plus it would have often had
                              > > a PACCS plane for 15th AF. I dunno what sort of LOS there was between
                              > > March & Strawberry Peak, in terms of whether there would have been a GEP
                              > > right there at March. Obviously they could plug in the land-lines, but
                              > > even at Offutt AFB the aircraft often burn on MUX while sitting on the
                              > > ground.
                              >
                              >
                              > Strawberry Peak had a link to San Bernadino & Sanbo(telco nick)was probably the serving test center for March with connectivity to the base, either carrier/cable or a MW shot.
                              >
                            • Tim Moriarty
                              ... ________________________________ From: buchcty To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 10:37:18 PM Subject:
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 2, 2010
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                                > Y'know, that's funny to me - I wouldn't look at a CONUS location as a forward OL for PACOM's ABNCP... I'd be looking westward.

                                > Just goes to show whay I wasn never the PCJ3/5.

                                :-)




                                ________________________________
                                From: buchcty <rickcstone@...>
                                To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 10:37:18 PM
                                Subject: [coldwarcomms] Re: Nice old article about original NORAD Combat Ops Center

                                 
                                The GEP was moved from March to Strawberry Peak to give better airborne coverage. March sits in quite a hole.

                                The EC-135s that sat alert had nothing to do with 15th AF at least not while there was a GEP there. March was a forward operating location for Blue Eagle (CINCPACs ABNCP).

                                Stoney

                                --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "OZOB99" <ozob99@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > > >
                                > >> >
                                > > I think March was a popular NEACP OL when Reagan was in California,
                                > > with AF1 usually flying in to NAS Pt Mugu. Plus it would have often had
                                > > a PACCS plane for 15th AF. I dunno what sort of LOS there was between
                                > > March & Strawberry Peak, in terms of whether there would have been a GEP
                                > > right there at March. Obviously they could plug in the land-lines, but
                                > > even at Offutt AFB the aircraft often burn on MUX while sitting on the
                                > > ground.
                                >
                                >
                                > Strawberry Peak had a link to San Bernadino & Sanbo(telco nick)was probably the serving test center for March with connectivity to the base, either carrier/cable or a MW shot.
                                >




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • OZOB99
                                ... Thanks for the update;assuming the March GEP was USAF owned & operated, was it fixed in a building, or one of the transportable trailers/vans like the Blue
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 3, 2010
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                                  --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "buchcty" <rickcstone@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > The GEP was moved from March to Strawberry Peak to give better airborne coverage. March sits in quite a hole.
                                  >
                                  > The EC-135s that sat alert had nothing to do with 15th AF at least not while there was a GEP there. March was a forward operating location for Blue Eagle (CINCPACs ABNCP).
                                  >
                                  > Stoney

                                  Thanks for the update;assuming the March GEP was USAF owned & operated, was it fixed in a building, or one of the transportable trailers/vans like the Blue Eagle GEP's in the Western Pacific/far east?

                                  I've also found a couple more things about the March GEP: it was on another circuit I believe to have been NEACP, and on this one Strawberry Peak was not a terminal; and March was on wide band(secure voice) A/G circuit,along with Strawberry Peak.

                                  March was designated MRCHAB CA and MARCH ABCA on pre CLLI records; also shown as Moreno CA( the LSO[local serving office])on some circuits.
                                • OZOB99
                                  ... With no further response from Stoney, and looking further into this, I have concluded(without documentation so far)that March AFB may have had a
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Feb 12, 2012
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                                    --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "OZOB99" <ozob99@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "buchcty" <rickcstone@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > The GEP was moved from March to Strawberry Peak to give better airborne coverage. March sits in quite a hole.
                                    > >
                                    > > The EC-135s that sat alert had nothing to do with 15th AF at least not while there was a GEP there. March was a forward operating location for Blue Eagle (CINCPACs ABNCP).
                                    > >
                                    > > Stoney
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for the update;assuming the March GEP was USAF owned & operated, was it fixed in a building, or one of the transportable trailers/vans like the Blue Eagle GEP's in the Western Pacific/far east?
                                    >
                                    > I've also found a couple more things about the March GEP: it was on another circuit I believe to have been NEACP, and on this one Strawberry Peak was not a terminal; and March was on wide band(secure voice) A/G circuit,along with Strawberry Peak.
                                    >
                                    > March was designated MRCHAB CA and MARCH ABCA on pre CLLI records; also shown as Moreno CA( the LSO[local serving office])on some circuits.
                                    >


                                    With no further response from Stoney, and looking further into this, I have concluded(without documentation so far)that March AFB may have had a transportable GEP trailer early on, then became a landline terminal on the GEP circuits(using umbilical cords to the A/C on the ground);with Strawberry Peak becoming the RF connection point in that area.

                                    Other locations on GEP multipoint air-ground ciruits that appear to have not had UHF mux connectivity but rather terminated in A. phones and/or switch, or B. the aircraft on the ground via umbilical cables.

                                    Examples of A: the Project offices(most likly for access to the most survivable Autovon switches), Site R, Pentagon,Cinclant HQ Norfolk,Little Creek Naval Base Va; Rockdale Ga,Monrovia Md,Drainsville Va,Chesterfield Ma.(These last four may have been primarily for Autovon/PSN access)

                                    Examples of B:Andrews AFB,Langley AFB,Homestead AFB,March AFB,NAS Pensacola Fl; Flagstaff Az(apparently was a GEP,then a landline connection, or vice versa).

                                    A couple of wild cards are: Pennsuco Fl(overseas/high seas connection?)and Florida City Fl(doubt it was for Cuba access:)
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