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Re: [coldwarcomms] Emergency Power from Ships

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  • albertjlafrance@cs.com
    Fascinating - I had never heard of those DEs converted to power-supply ships. The matter of emergency power in case of a widespread disaster like nuclear war
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 28, 2001
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      Fascinating - I had never heard of those DEs converted to power-supply ships.

      The matter of emergency power in case of a widespread disaster like nuclear
      war is definitely important, and also difficult to deal with. Especially so
      in what I'd call the "intermediate" time frame - after the acute phase of the
      disaster (rescuing trapped survivors, aiding the injured, etc.), but before
      the normal civil infrastructure is restored.

      In the time immediately after the disaster occurs, the only activity in the
      affected areas would be emergency teams self-sufficient in all their needs,
      including power. But later, when the broader task of rebuilding begins,
      power requirements would be much greater, and the users (e.g. construction
      contractors, municipal work crews) would probably not have their own power
      generation capability. That's similar to the situation in Manila, described
      on the web sites, where the USS Wiseman served.

      The bottom line is: I don't know what plans are in place to provide emergency
      generating capacity. The idea of a power-supply ship seems as viable today
      as it was in WWII; it would be interesting to see if any of these exist, or
      if there are standing plans to make the conversions.

      Of course, there are truck/trailer-mounted generators in rental fleets around
      the country, but I doubt that many are in protected locations; in fact, most
      are probably stored near urban areas where the greatest demand is.

      Albert

      In a message dated 4/28/2001 10:47:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
      ozob99@... writes:

      > Since we're into emergency comm restoration in "disasters" during the
      > cold war and up to the present....what about emergency power for
      > comms(& eveything else essential) during that period & now?...aside
      > from the obvious transportable gas turbine & diesel units, did/does
      > FEMA,the Navy, or any other agency have a plan to use
      > Navy/USCG/Military Sea Transport ships for restoring power to
      > coastline cities like these destroyer escorts did in WW2 & Korea?...
      > as shown on these pages:
      >
      > http://www.de220.com/Conversions/TEG.htm
      > http://www.sunwest-emb.com/wiseman/misc-1.htm
    • William Barnes
      I m operating from memory here, and I don t remember ANY details, but I recall a news story that reported a sub provided power to some part of Hawaii after a
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 28, 2001
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        I'm operating from memory here, and I don't remember ANY details, but I
        recall a news story that reported a sub provided power to some part of
        Hawaii after a typhoon. Probably in the 70's or 80's.

        Now I have to start digging to find out!

        Lurk mode back on.

        Bill
      • ozob99@yahoo.com
        ... power-supply ships. ... nuclear ... Especially so ... phase of the ... before ... in the ... needs, ... begins, ... construction ... own power ...
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 29, 2001
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          --- In coldwarcomms@y..., albertjlafrance@c... wrote:
          > Fascinating - I had never heard of those DEs converted to
          power-supply ships.
          >
          > The matter of emergency power in case of a widespread disaster like
          nuclear
          > war is definitely important, and also difficult to deal with.
          Especially so
          > in what I'd call the "intermediate" time frame - after the acute
          phase of the
          > disaster (rescuing trapped survivors, aiding the injured, etc.), but
          before
          > the normal civil infrastructure is restored.
          >
          > In the time immediately after the disaster occurs, the only activity
          in the
          > affected areas would be emergency teams self-sufficient in all their
          needs,
          > including power. But later, when the broader task of rebuilding
          begins,
          > power requirements would be much greater, and the users (e.g.
          construction
          > contractors, municipal work crews) would probably not have their
          own power
          > generation capability. That's similar to the situation in Manila,
          described
          > on the web sites, where the USS Wiseman served.
          >
          > The bottom line is: I don't know what plans are in place to provide
          emergency
          > generating capacity. The idea of a power-supply ship seems as
          viable today
          > as it was in WWII; it would be interesting to see if any of these
          exist, or
          > if there are standing plans to make the conversions.
          >
          > Of course, there are truck/trailer-mounted generators in rental
          fleets around
          > the country, but I doubt that many are in protected locations; in
          fact, most
          > are probably stored near urban areas where the greatest demand is.
          >
          > Albert

          I stongly suspect there are some ships with that capability,or easily
          converted thereto....but i cant find any contemporary references to
          the matter,and see no reason why it would be a "black" program??..lets
          hope the capability is there if ever needed.



          >
          > In a message dated 4/28/2001 10:47:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
          > ozob99@y... writes:
          >
          > > Since we're into emergency comm restoration in "disasters" during
          the
          > > cold war and up to the present....what about emergency power for
          > > comms(& eveything else essential) during that period &
          now?...aside
          > > from the obvious transportable gas turbine & diesel units,
          did/does
          > > FEMA,the Navy, or any other agency have a plan to use
          > > Navy/USCG/Military Sea Transport ships for restoring power to
          > > coastline cities like these destroyer escorts did in WW2 &
          Korea?...
          > > as shown on these pages:
          > >
          > > http://www.de220.com/Conversions/TEG.htm
          > > http://www.sunwest-emb.com/wiseman/misc-1.htm
        • art maples
          It seems to me that about 2 years ago there was a news story about a city having serious electric problems and that they had to draw power from a ship berthed
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 29, 2001
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            It seems to me that about 2 years ago there was a news story about a
            city having serious electric problems and that they had to draw power
            from a ship berthed in their harbor. For some reason I'm thinking it was
            in New Zealand, but my memory is quite suspect.

            Art
            www.duotone.com

            As an aside, I was in Newport News photographing the old N.S Savannah
            this winter. She is anchored in the James River with the "Sturgis" which
            was an old WWII Liberty ship that the Army converted into a floating
            nuclear power plant. (She provided power to the Panama Canal grid for a
            number of years). Anyway there was a fair amount of joking that they
            should scrape the rust off of her and send her out to California to help
            them out with their power power problems. You can find some info on the
            Army's "prime-power battalion at
            http://www.wood.army.mil/ENGRMAG/PB5003/Potter.htm
          • ozob99@yahoo.com
            ... power ... was ... Savannah ... which ... for a ... help ... the ... Thanks for the very timely page...so we do have marine nuclear power capability...i
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 29, 2001
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              --- In coldwarcomms@y..., art maples <art@d...> wrote:
              > It seems to me that about 2 years ago there was a news story about a
              > city having serious electric problems and that they had to draw
              power
              > from a ship berthed in their harbor. For some reason I'm thinking it
              was
              > in New Zealand, but my memory is quite suspect.
              >
              > Art
              > www.duotone.com
              >
              > As an aside, I was in Newport News photographing the old N.S
              Savannah
              > this winter. She is anchored in the James River with the "Sturgis"
              which
              > was an old WWII Liberty ship that the Army converted into a floating
              > nuclear power plant. (She provided power to the Panama Canal grid
              for a
              > number of years). Anyway there was a fair amount of joking that they
              > should scrape the rust off of her and send her out to California to
              help
              > them out with their power power problems. You can find some info on
              the
              > Army's "prime-power battalion at
              > http://www.wood.army.mil/ENGRMAG/PB5003/Potter.htm

              Thanks for the very timely page...so we do have marine nuclear
              power capability...i suspected this but not on such a large
              scale...interesting that dozens of searches on emergency power;power
              generation on ships,etc did'nt turn up that page....a familiar
              scenario....seems there is considerable info buried in the WWW not
              readily retrievable.
            • Matthew Sadler
              Somewhat along these lines, railroads have been known to use diesel locomotives to supply their shop complexes with power in emergencies, and MRL (Montana Rail
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 29, 2001
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                Somewhat along these lines, railroads have been known to use diesel
                locomotives to supply their shop complexes with power in emergencies, and
                MRL (Montana Rail Link) has begun planning to use some 160 idled locomotives
                to produce electricity to sell on the open market, which they claim they can
                do cheaper than current western sources.

                For information, a model SD40-2 locomotive (very common, produced in the
                mid-70s to mid-80s) produces 1500 amperes at 600 volts DC at full throttle.

                --mws

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <ozob99@...>
                To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 10:46 PM
                Subject: [coldwarcomms] Emergency Power from Ships


                > Since we're into emergency comm restoration in "disasters" during the
                > cold war and up to the present....what about emergency power for
                > comms(& eveything else essential) during that period & now?...aside
                > from the obvious transportable gas turbine & diesel units, did/does
                > FEMA,the Navy, or any other agency have a plan to use
                > Navy/USCG/Military Sea Transport ships for restoring power to
                > coastline cities like these destroyer escorts did in WW2 & Korea?...
                > as shown on these pages:
                >
                > http://www.de220.com/Conversions/TEG.htm
                > http://www.sunwest-emb.com/wiseman/misc-1.htm
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • ozob99@yahoo.com
                ... emergencies, and ... locomotives ... they can ... the ... throttle. ... Thats good info..thanks..i m sure its a resource that would be tapped. ... the ...
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 29, 2001
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                  --- In coldwarcomms@y..., "Matthew Sadler" <mws@k...> wrote:
                  > Somewhat along these lines, railroads have been known to use diesel
                  > locomotives to supply their shop complexes with power in
                  emergencies, and
                  > MRL (Montana Rail Link) has begun planning to use some 160 idled
                  locomotives
                  > to produce electricity to sell on the open market, which they claim
                  they can
                  > do cheaper than current western sources.
                  >
                  > For information, a model SD40-2 locomotive (very common, produced in
                  the
                  > mid-70s to mid-80s) produces 1500 amperes at 600 volts DC at full
                  throttle.
                  >
                  > --mws

                  Thats good info..thanks..i'm sure its a resource that would be tapped.
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: <ozob99@y...>
                  > To: <coldwarcomms@y...>
                  > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 10:46 PM
                  > Subject: [coldwarcomms] Emergency Power from Ships
                  >
                  >
                  > > Since we're into emergency comm restoration in "disasters" during
                  the
                  > > cold war and up to the present....what about emergency power for
                  > > comms(& eveything else essential) during that period &
                  now?...aside
                  > > from the obvious transportable gas turbine & diesel units,
                  did/does
                  > > FEMA,the Navy, or any other agency have a plan to use
                  > > Navy/USCG/Military Sea Transport ships for restoring power to
                  > > coastline cities like these destroyer escorts did in WW2 &
                  Korea?...
                  > > as shown on these pages:
                  > >
                  > > http://www.de220.com/Conversions/TEG.htm
                  > > http://www.sunwest-emb.com/wiseman/misc-1.htm
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                • albertjlafrance@cs.com
                  Tonight s (5/3/01) NBC Nightly News, in a report on the electric-power crisis in California, mentioned using generators on surplus ships as power sources. I
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 3 6:49 PM
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                    Tonight's (5/3/01) NBC Nightly News, in a report on the electric-power crisis
                    in California, mentioned using generators on surplus ships as power sources.
                    I didn't catch whether the idea was just proposed, or has actually been
                    implemented.

                    Albert
                  • Paxton Heckman
                    Recently in the local paper (The Hartford Courant) there was an article about a company here in Connecticut that is experimenting/producing inverters
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 6 7:18 AM
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                      <P> <BR>Recently in the local paper (The Hartford
                      Courant) there was an article about a company here in
                      Connecticut that is experimenting/producing inverters
                      for locomotives, for this purpose. They are also
                      hoping to get into the fuel cell market and create the
                      first fuel cell powered locomotive... Neat stuff. I
                      think they are going to put something on the
                      Provedence & Worcester RR website about it
                      <P>  <B><I>albertjlafrance@...</I></B> wrote:
                      <BR>
                      <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT:
                      5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><TT>Tonight's
                      (5/3/01) NBC Nightly News, in a report on the
                      electric-power crisis <BR>in California, mentioned
                      using generators on surplus ships as power
                      sources.  <BR>I didn't catch whether the idea was
                      just proposed, or has actually been
                      <BR>implemented.<BR><BR>Albert <BR></TT><BR><!--
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