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Re: Alabama/Florida observations

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  • John Warne
    Sometimes you found residential, business, and government communications flowing through different cables in the same underground facility. In residential and
    Message 1 of 11 , May 4, 1999
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      Sometimes you found residential, business, and government communications
      flowing through different cables in the same underground facility.

      In residential and urban areas, manholes are interconnected by what telco
      people call ducts (I call 'em "pipes"). These multiple ducts are then
      filled with copper cables or sheaths called innerducts into which fiber is
      placed. Many times the manholes served as splice points for cale runs (and,
      in Florida, many times the manholes were filled with water. You'd pump one
      out, and it would refill from adjacent manholes via the ducts!)

      A couple ex-telco types told me there were/are situations where dedicated
      copper cables were used for national defense communications. These cables
      always had the splice casings painted a bright red. The local technicians
      were forbidden to open one of those splice closures, under penalty of
      termination of employment and federal prosecution!

      Seems there was a way that the integrity of the seals on the cables could
      be determined from remote sites.

      Many cables were pressurized to keep water/moisture out, so perhaps loss of
      pressure was used to alert in case of a breach.
    • Matthew Sadler
      ... Many underground cables, both those that are directly buried as well as those in ducts, are pressurized and they can/do monitor the pressure. Helps detect
      Message 2 of 11 , May 4, 1999
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        --- John Warne <warnejw@...> wrote:
        > From: John Warne <warnejw@...>
        >
        > A couple ex-telco types told me there were/are
        > situations where dedicated
        > copper cables were used for national defense
        > communications. These cables
        > always had the splice casings painted a bright red.
        > The local technicians
        > were forbidden to open one of those splice closures,
        > under penalty of
        > termination of employment and federal prosecution!
        >
        > Seems there was a way that the integrity of the
        > seals on the cables could
        > be determined from remote sites.
        >
        > Many cables were pressurized to keep water/moisture
        > out, so perhaps loss of
        > pressure was used to alert in case of a breach.

        Many underground cables, both those that are directly
        buried as well as those in ducts, are pressurized and
        they can/do monitor the pressure. Helps detect leaks,
        especially those caused by construction equipment...

        I'd say that the pressure is the easiest way to make
        sure people are keeping out of your cable.


        ===
        --
        Matthew Sadler, KF4LHP ICQ: 6280641
        kf4lhp@... mws6533@...
        http://www.qsl.net/kf4lhp/

        _________________________________________________________
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      • Albert LaFrance
        I worked during the summer of 1978 in data processing at the State Department, and recall being told that cables for classified un-encrypted ( red ) circuits
        Message 3 of 11 , May 4, 1999
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          I worked during the summer of 1978 in data processing at the State
          Department, and recall being told that cables for classified un-encrypted
          ("red") circuits within the building were carried in red-painted steel
          conduits, with the fittings welded and the pipe pressurized to detect
          intrusion. As I understood the concept, the crypto equipment was
          centralized in one or more secure technical-control rooms, with the lines
          between these rooms and the end users' phones and data terminals being
          protected solely by the conduits.

          I think pressurization for moisture protection was also used with aerial
          phone cables, at least the paper-insulated lead-covered cables which were
          presumably less tolerant of water than are plastic-insulated cables. In
          the 60s and 70s, it was quite common to see a tall gas cylinder (probably
          nitrogen) chained to the base of a telephone pole, with a hose going up the
          pole and attached to the cable. These setups seemed to come and go;
          perhaps the pressurization was only used when circuit problems suggested a
          leak. I also recall seeing technicians using listening devices on long
          poles to "sniff" for leaks along aerial cable runs.

          More recently, I've noticed a few old lead aerial splice cases having a
          small box attached to the case by a short stem. There is a small cable
          coming out of the box and connecting to a nearby junction box, like a
          regular subscriber line. I'm wondering if these boxes are pressure
          sensors.

          ...Albert

          >A couple ex-telco types told me there were/are situations where dedicated
          >copper cables were used for national defense communications. These cables
          >always had the splice casings painted a bright red. The local technicians
          >were forbidden to open one of those splice closures, under penalty of
          >termination of employment and federal prosecution!
          >
          >Seems there was a way that the integrity of the seals on the cables could
          >be determined from remote sites.
          >
          >Many cables were pressurized to keep water/moisture out, so perhaps loss
          of
          >pressure was used to alert in case of a breach.
        • hal
          Gosh Albert, we seem to have worked in the same place. I worked at the Foreign Affairs Data Processing Center at State around the same time. Its where I
          Message 4 of 11 , May 5, 1999
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            Gosh Albert, we seem to have worked in the same place. I "worked" at the
            Foreign Affairs Data Processing Center at State around the
            same time. Its where I gained my immense respect for the State. BTW lets see if
            we can plan a joint trip to Spear Mt.

            Hal

            Albert Lawrence wrote:

            > From: Albert LaFrance <ALaFrance@...>
            >
            > I worked during the summer of 1978 in data processing at the State
            > Department, and recall being told that cables for classified un-encrypted
            > ("red") circuits within the building were carried in red-painted steel
            > conduits, with the fittings welded and the pipe pressurized to detect
            > intrusion. As I understood the concept, the crypto equipment was
            > centralized in one or more secure technical-control rooms, with the lines
            > between these rooms and the end users' phones and data terminals being
            > protected solely by the conduits.
            >
            > I think pressurization for moisture protection was also used with aerial
            > phone cables, at least the paper-insulated lead-covered cables which were
            > presumably less tolerant of water than are plastic-insulated cables. In
            > the 60s and 70s, it was quite common to see a tall gas cylinder (probably
            > nitrogen) chained to the base of a telephone pole, with a hose going up the
            > pole and attached to the cable. These setups seemed to come and go;
            > perhaps the pressurization was only used when circuit problems suggested a
            > leak. I also recall seeing technicians using listening devices on long
            > poles to "sniff" for leaks along aerial cable runs.
            >
            > More recently, I've noticed a few old lead aerial splice cases having a
            > small box attached to the case by a short stem. There is a small cable
            > coming out of the box and connecting to a nearby junction box, like a
            > regular subscriber line. I'm wondering if these boxes are pressure
            > sensors.
            >
            > ...Albert
            >
            > >A couple ex-telco types told me there were/are situations where dedicated
            > >copper cables were used for national defense communications. These cables
            > >always had the splice casings painted a bright red. The local technicians
            > >were forbidden to open one of those splice closures, under penalty of
            > >termination of employment and federal prosecution!
            > >
            > >Seems there was a way that the integrity of the seals on the cables could
            > >be determined from remote sites.
            > >
            > >Many cables were pressurized to keep water/moisture out, so perhaps loss
            > of
            > >pressure was used to alert in case of a breach.
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > Wanting to get back in touch with old friends?
            > http://www.onelist.com
            > Reunite through a ONElist community.
          • hal
            Sorry about that. Should not have gone to the list. Please ignore it. Thanks
            Message 5 of 11 , May 6, 1999
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              Sorry about that. Should not have gone to the list. Please ignore it. Thanks

              hal wrote:

              > From: hal <halfei@...>
              >
              > Gosh Albert, we seem to have worked in the same place. I "worked" at the
              > Foreign Affairs Data Processing Center at State around the
              > same time. Its where I gained my immense respect for the State. BTW lets see if
              > we can plan a joint trip to Spear Mt.
              >
              > Hal
              >
              > Albert Lawrence wrote:
              >
              > > From: Albert LaFrance <ALaFrance@...>
              > >
              > > I worked during the summer of 1978 in data processing at the State
              > > Department, and recall being told that cables for classified un-encrypted
              > > ("red") circuits within the building were carried in red-painted steel
              > > conduits, with the fittings welded and the pipe pressurized to detect
              > > intrusion. As I understood the concept, the crypto equipment was
              > > centralized in one or more secure technical-control rooms, with the lines
              > > between these rooms and the end users' phones and data terminals being
              > > protected solely by the conduits.
              > >
              > > I think pressurization for moisture protection was also used with aerial
              > > phone cables, at least the paper-insulated lead-covered cables which were
              > > presumably less tolerant of water than are plastic-insulated cables. In
              > > the 60s and 70s, it was quite common to see a tall gas cylinder (probably
              > > nitrogen) chained to the base of a telephone pole, with a hose going up the
              > > pole and attached to the cable. These setups seemed to come and go;
              > > perhaps the pressurization was only used when circuit problems suggested a
              > > leak. I also recall seeing technicians using listening devices on long
              > > poles to "sniff" for leaks along aerial cable runs.
              > >
              > > More recently, I've noticed a few old lead aerial splice cases having a
              > > small box attached to the case by a short stem. There is a small cable
              > > coming out of the box and connecting to a nearby junction box, like a
              > > regular subscriber line. I'm wondering if these boxes are pressure
              > > sensors.
              > >
              > > ...Albert
              > >
              > > >A couple ex-telco types told me there were/are situations where dedicated
              > > >copper cables were used for national defense communications. These cables
              > > >always had the splice casings painted a bright red. The local technicians
              > > >were forbidden to open one of those splice closures, under penalty of
              > > >termination of employment and federal prosecution!
              > > >
              > > >Seems there was a way that the integrity of the seals on the cables could
              > > >be determined from remote sites.
              > > >
              > > >Many cables were pressurized to keep water/moisture out, so perhaps loss
              > > of
              > > >pressure was used to alert in case of a breach.
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > Wanting to get back in touch with old friends?
              > > http://www.onelist.com
              > > Reunite through a ONElist community.
              >
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