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RE: [coldwarcomms] Interesting AT&T POP List

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  • Charles Fargis
    BRS is listed in PA and Chatham is still listed in NC but weve seeen the rust bucket that is. Culpepper and Charlottesville are pops. What about the #2
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 1, 2008
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      BRS is listed in PA and Chatham is still listed in NC but weve seeen the
      rust bucket that is.
      Culpepper and Charlottesville are pops. What about the #2 offices?

      -----Original Message-----
      From: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com [mailto:coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of jamesbburks
      Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:23 PM
      To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [coldwarcomms] Interesting AT&T POP List



      Here's a link to an interesting AT&T POP list from their public
      website:
      http://www.corp
      <http://www.corp.att.com/globalnetworking/media/network_map.swf>
      att.com/globalnetworking/media/network_map.swf

      It lists several of our old friends:
      Hagerstown
      Offut
      Dranesville
      Bluemont
      Rockdale
      Camp David

      And some others that may be interesting....







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Lesher
      Norway is NOT listed? -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that s close........[v].(301)
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 1, 2008
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        Norway is NOT listed?


        --
        A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
        & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
        Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
        is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
      • Nathan Watson
        The exact same question went through my mind. I also noticed that Xenia, Ohio is spelled Xenio on this site. Nathan
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 1, 2008
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          The exact same question went through my mind.

          I also noticed that Xenia, Ohio is spelled "Xenio" on
          this site.

          Nathan


          --- David Lesher <wb8foz@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Norway is NOT listed?
          >
          >
          > --
          > A host is a host from coast to
          > coast.................wb8foz@...
          > & no one will talk to a host that's
          > close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
          > Unless the host (that isn't
          > close).........................pob 1433
          > is busy, hung or
          > dead....................................20915-1433
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • David Lesher
          ... I assume Xenia is not the TD-2 silo along I-70 as I thought it was just a TV spur.... -- A host is a host from coast to
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 1, 2008
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            Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
            >
            > > Norway is NOT listed?
            > The exact same question went through my mind.
            >
            > I also noticed that Xenia, Ohio is spelled "Xenio" on
            > this site.


            I assume Xenia is not the TD-2 silo along I-70 as I thought
            it was just a TV spur....



            --
            A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
            & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
            Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
            is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
          • widebandit
            The concrete tower along I-70 is the Springfield Radio-Relay Building; part of the route: Cincinnati, White Oak, Springboro, Dayton, Springfield, Catawba,
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 2, 2008
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              The concrete tower along I-70 is the Springfield Radio-Relay
              Building; part of the route: Cincinnati, White Oak, Springboro,
              Dayton, Springfield, Catawba, Columbus. All repeater stations on
              this route are concrete Radio-Relay Buildings. Springfield's delay-
              lens antennas were replaced with horn-reflectors mounted on a two-
              deck type-A tower built on the roof. A third pair of horns was added
              for a branching hop to Urbana. The added weight and wind-load of the
              steel tower plus six horns required a wider foundation which was done
              by adding four concrete buttresses to base of the building. Albert's
              Long-Lines.net website has more info, and Windows Live Local -
              maps.live.com - has excellent bird's-eye views of the tower.

              As for Xenio[a], I have not seen a microwave station by that name on
              any route maps....WaW...
              > >
              > > > Norway is NOT listed?
              > > The exact same question went through my mind.
              > >
              > > I also noticed that Xenia, Ohio is spelled "Xenio" on
              > > this site.
              >
              >
              > I assume Xenia is not the TD-2 silo along I-70 as I thought
              > it was just a TV spur....
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
              > & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
              > Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
              > is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
              >
            • widebandit
              I think I m going blind! Albert s Long-Lines.net website also has a nice contribution by Michael W. Jacobs on the Xenia L5 main station. Just coax - no
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 2, 2008
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                I think I'm going blind! Albert's Long-Lines.net website also has a
                nice contribution by Michael W. Jacobs on the Xenia L5 main station.
                Just coax - no microwave!...WaW...
                > >
                > > > Norway is NOT listed?
                > > The exact same question went through my mind.
                > >
                > > I also noticed that Xenia, Ohio is spelled "Xenio" on
                > > this site.
                >
                >
                > I assume Xenia is not the TD-2 silo along I-70 as I thought
                > it was just a TV spur....
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
                > & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
                > Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
                > is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
                >
              • long-lines@att.net
                Back in June Jim Burks posted the link below to an AT&T Global Network Map. In the new world order what constitutes a Service Node ? Does an OC-3 with a mux
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 21, 2008
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                  Back in June Jim Burks posted the link below to an AT&T Global Network Map.

                  In the new world order what constitutes a 'Service Node'? Does an OC-3 with a mux
                  on the end service a single customer constitute a Service Node? Or are we talking
                  about a PSTN Interconnection POP?

                  I'm pretty sure AT&T does not have fiber to all of these locations; perhaps some of
                  them are via leased ILEC facilities ...?

                  c.

                  > ------- Forwarded message follows -------
                  > To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: "jamesbburks" <jim.burks@...>
                  > Date sent: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:23:24 -0000
                  > Subject: [coldwarcomms] Interesting AT&T POP
                  > List
                  > Send reply to: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  > Here's a link to an interesting AT&T POP list from their public
                  > website:
                  >
                  > http://www.corp.att.com/globalnetworking/media/network_map.swf
                  >
                  [snip]
                • jamesbburks
                  It s almost certainly what we know of as a POP, significant AT&T- owned equipment. Where the handoff is from the LEC to the IXC. It is almost certainly not a
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 22, 2008
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                    It's almost certainly what we know of as a POP, significant AT&T-
                    owned equipment. Where the handoff is from the LEC to the IXC.

                    It is almost certainly not a customer location with an OC-3 mux. I
                    would guess AT&T has fiber, either owned or leased, with diverse
                    access to all of these locations.

                    I can identify at least two that are on customer premise (Blue Ridge
                    Summit PA, Bentonville AR). Both have significant amounts of AT&T
                    equipment. Bentonville is several rooms full, with AT&T secured
                    access even though in a customer premise.

                    Some locations are influenced by key customers wanting diverse
                    access to POPs, but are not on customer premise (Horn Lake MS).

                    The geographic diversity of POPs saves significantly on the local
                    loop circuit costs. A general rule of thumb for leased line
                    dedicated bandwith circuits is that 1/2 of the cost is for the local
                    loop at both ends, and 1/2 is for the IXC circuit between the two
                    POPs. AT&T pays by the mile for the local loop. If they have to run
                    the local loop a long way to the nearest POP, it puts more of the
                    money into the IXC's pockets and less into AT&Ts. With the
                    consolidation (AT&T, SBC, BellSouth) and (Verizon, MCI), it's
                    changing somewhat, but still there.

                    Also, each of these 'POP' locations almost certainly has diverse
                    access (at least two fiber or radio routes). Cable cuts are much
                    more recoverable POP-to-POP than for the 'last mile' between the POP
                    and the customer site.

                    When we evaluate carriers, especially International, a POP map tells
                    us whether they are serious about being an International carrier or
                    a wanna-be. If you have to run the local loop from Estonia all the
                    way back to the nearest POP in Frankfurt, choose another carrier.
                    You will have too many finger-pointing problems with 'looks good on
                    my part of it'.


                    --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, long-lines@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Back in June Jim Burks posted the link below to an AT&T Global
                    Network Map.
                    >
                    > In the new world order what constitutes a 'Service Node'? Does an
                    > OC-3 with a mux on the end service a single customer constitute a
                    > Service Node? Or are we talking about a PSTN Interconnection POP?
                    >
                    > I'm pretty sure AT&T does not have fiber to all of these
                    > locations; perhaps some of them are via leased ILEC facilities ...?
                    >
                    > c.
                    >

                    > > Here's a link to an interesting AT&T POP list from their public
                    > > website:
                    > >
                    > > http://www.corp.att.com/globalnetworking/media/network_map.swf
                    > >
                    > [snip]
                    >
                  • ozob99
                    The first few years after divestiture many non-CO POP s were Digital MW stations where ATT interfaced the LEC s at DS-1 and/or 3( hi cap access) to minimise
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 23, 2008
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                      The first few years after divestiture many non-CO POP's were Digital MW
                      stations where ATT interfaced the LEC's at DS-1 and/or 3( hi cap
                      access) to minimise access costs as described, but most of these served
                      PSN & Special Services in general,not customer specific,and were not
                      service nodes.
                    • long-lines@att.net
                      ... For clarity/purposes of this conversation I m going to equate LEC to ILEC ... ... The location I m looking at is Lincolnville, Maine. As best as I can
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 26, 2008
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                        On 22 Jul 2008 at 19:56, jamesbburks wrote:

                        > It's almost certainly what we know of as a POP, significant AT&T-
                        > owned equipment. Where the handoff is from the LEC to the IXC.

                        For clarity/purposes of this conversation I'm going to equate LEC to ILEC ...

                        > It is almost certainly not a customer location with an OC-3 mux. I
                        > would guess AT&T has fiber, either owned or leased, with diverse
                        > access to all of these locations.

                        The location I'm looking at is Lincolnville, Maine. As best as I can tell AT&T does not
                        and never has had any fiber or radio facilities in or around this location. More
                        specifically the Bell System, either Long Lines (AT&T) or the RBOC (New England
                        Telephone/NYNEX/Bell Atlantic/Verizon/FairPoint) does not appear to ever had
                        anything there except a couple trunks to Lincolnville Telephone Company (just as
                        they do/did to every independent company).

                        > I can identify at least two that are on customer premise (Blue Ridge
                        > Summit PA, Bentonville AR). Both have significant amounts of AT&T
                        > equipment. Bentonville is several rooms full, with AT&T secured access
                        > even though in a customer premise.

                        Understood but not applicable at the "low end".

                        > Some locations are influenced by key customers wanting diverse
                        > access to POPs, but are not on customer premise (Horn Lake MS).
                        >
                        > The geographic diversity of POPs saves significantly on the local loop
                        > circuit costs. A general rule of thumb for leased line dedicated
                        > bandwith circuits is that 1/2 of the cost is for the local loop at
                        > both ends, and 1/2 is for the IXC circuit between the two POPs. AT&T
                        > pays by the mile for the local loop. If they have to run the local
                        > loop a long way to the nearest POP, it puts more of the money into the
                        > IXC's pockets and less into AT&Ts. With the consolidation (AT&T, SBC,
                        > BellSouth) and (Verizon, MCI), it's changing somewhat, but still
                        > there.

                        The only scenario I can envision is that Lincolnville made a deal with AT&T to by-
                        pass the RBOC. In this scenario it is Lincolnville that would appear to have installed
                        and maintained fiber between Lincolnville and the AT&T POP in Bangor (Lincolnville
                        Tel. *does* have fiber running through the RBOC in that area).

                        > Also, each of these 'POP' locations almost certainly has diverse
                        > access (at least two fiber or radio routes). Cable cuts are much more
                        > recoverable POP-to-POP than for the 'last mile' between the POP and
                        > the customer site.

                        It doesn't look that way in this case.

                        > When we evaluate carriers, especially International, a POP map tells
                        > us whether they are serious about being an International carrier or a
                        > wanna-be. If you have to run the local loop from Estonia all the way
                        > back to the nearest POP in Frankfurt, choose another carrier. You will
                        > have too many finger-pointing problems with 'looks good on my part of
                        > it'.

                        Agreed.

                        c.

                        > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, long-lines@... wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Back in June Jim Burks posted the link below to an AT&T Global
                        > Network Map.
                        > >
                        > > In the new world order what constitutes a 'Service Node'? Does an
                        > > OC-3 with a mux on the end service a single customer constitute a
                        > > Service Node? Or are we talking about a PSTN Interconnection POP?
                        > >
                        > > I'm pretty sure AT&T does not have fiber to all of these
                        > > locations; perhaps some of them are via leased ILEC facilities ...?
                        > >
                        > > c.
                        > >
                        >
                        > > > Here's a link to an interesting AT&T POP list from their public
                        > > > website:
                        > > >
                        > > > http://www.corp.att.com/globalnetworking/media/network_map.swf
                        > > >
                        > > [snip]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                      • long-lines@att.net
                        ... This sound much like what happened at Bangor, Maine. At divestiture AT&T moved out of the CO to another building and re-established microwave, and
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jul 26, 2008
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                          On 23 Jul 2008 at 18:19, ozob99 wrote:

                          > The first few years after divestiture many non-CO POP's were Digital
                          > MW stations where ATT interfaced the LEC's at DS-1 and/or 3( hi cap
                          > access) to minimise access costs as described, but most of these
                          > served PSN & Special Services in general,not customer specific,and
                          > were not service nodes.

                          This sound much like what happened at Bangor, Maine. At divestiture AT&T
                          moved out of the CO to another building and re-established microwave, and
                          (later?) fiber service, at the new location. The building was constructed in such
                          a way that the ILEC (NYNEX) had their own entrance (much like they do these
                          days for CLECs).

                          What if the customer was a small Independent telco?

                          c.
                        • ozob99
                          ... Digital ... cap ... divestiture AT&T ... microwave, and ... constructed in such ... do these ... I recall a couple of smaller ICO/ATT POP s in VA after
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jul 27, 2008
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                            --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, long-lines@... wrote:
                            >
                            > On 23 Jul 2008 at 18:19, ozob99 wrote:
                            >
                            > > The first few years after divestiture many non-CO POP's were
                            Digital
                            > > MW stations where ATT interfaced the LEC's at DS-1 and/or 3( hi
                            cap
                            > > access) to minimise access costs as described, but most of these
                            > > served PSN & Special Services in general,not customer specific,and
                            > > were not service nodes.
                            >
                            > This sound much like what happened at Bangor, Maine. At
                            divestiture AT&T
                            > moved out of the CO to another building and re-established
                            microwave, and
                            > (later?) fiber service, at the new location. The building was
                            constructed in such
                            > a way that the ILEC (NYNEX) had their own entrance (much like they
                            do these
                            > days for CLECs).
                            >
                            > What if the customer was a small Independent telco?
                            >
                            > c.
                            >

                            I recall a couple of smaller ICO/ATT POP's in VA after divestiture
                            but not the company or locations; I think the initial interface was
                            analog then,with the POI being on a distributing frame,evolving to DS-
                            1 later.
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