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Re: [coldwarcomms] Possible GWEN Sites?

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  • Mike Jacobs
    The list of GWEN sites isn t secret and was published, along with their operating frequencies in the old Grove Shortwave Directory. Its too long to type here,
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
      The list of GWEN sites isn't secret and was published, along with
      their operating frequencies in the old Grove Shortwave Directory.
      Its too long to type here, but its in there. If there is any interest, I
      guess I could type up the list and put it on the web.


      Mike Jacobs, N3MJ
      Antenna and RF Engineering Laboratory
      Penn State University
      State College, PA
    • Scott Murdock
      Mike, I would certainly like to see the list! Scott
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
        Mike,
        I would certainly like to see the list!
        Scott


        Mike Jacobs wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > [eGroups] My Groups | coldwarcomms Main Page | Start a new
        > group!
        >
        > The list of GWEN sites isn't secret and was published, along with
        > their operating frequencies in the old Grove Shortwave Directory.
        > Its too long to type here, but its in there. If there is any
        > interest, I
        > guess I could type up the list and put it on the web.
        >
        > Mike Jacobs, N3MJ
        > Antenna and RF Engineering Laboratory
        > Penn State University
        > State College, PA
      • Scott Murdock
        Yes, the geolocation codes (four position, alpha) are a standard data element used in many DoD database systems to identify locations. They are used to
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
          Yes, the geolocation codes (four position, alpha) are a standard data
          element used in many DoD database systems to identify locations. They
          are used to identify actual military bases as well as any location of
          interest (refueling tracks, drop zones, civil airports, dams, docks,
          cities, etc.).

          For example, in the USAF you'll encounter them in the real property
          system, the manpower system (on the Unit Manpower Document), and the
          personnel system (on TDY and PCS orders, etc.).

          They are a convenient tool for researchers because -- usually -- the
          geolocation code will remain the same even if a base or other
          installation is redesignated. Makes it handy to cross-reference
          different sources.

          They've been used on special orders pertaining to USAF installations
          since 1968. Prior to that, starting in 1957, USAF used four position
          numeric codes -- Permanent Installation Number (PIN) -- but I guess they
          reached their useful limit in less than a decade! I don't know if the
          PIN was an AF-only effort or if it was DoD-wide.

          Scott
          www.airforcebase.net


          combatsent@... wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > [eGroups] My Groups | coldwarcomms Main Page | Start a new
          > group!
          >
          > Did you look at the HTML file in that directory.
          > These are Geo Location Codes used with a DOD program.
          > There are location codes there for Offutt AFB and more.
          >
          > Scott Murdock wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [eGroups] My Groups | coldwarcomms Main Page | Start a
          > new group!
          > >
          > > DISA has an interesting web site which includes a page of
          > > geoloc codes
          > > with names (unfortunately it does not give the state or
          > > installation
          > > kind). These entries *look* like GWEN sites, but they are
          > > new to me.
          > > Are you familiar with any of these, possibly under another
          > > name? And if
          > > so, do you know what state they are in (aside from the two
          > > obvious
          > > ones)?
          > >
          > > PHTX MARSHALL COM 845
          > > LTSX JASPER COM SI 891
          > > YYJU WILBUR COMM 884
          > > DHBJ CENTRAL OHIO 903
          > > KLXF HENRY COMM 912
          > > LUJY JENSEN COMM 927
          > > LYSW KAPSNER COMM 935
          > > MZQL LEADER COMM 902
          > > FRMQ EASTERN TENN 907
          > >
          > > Here's the web page -- it's a large one so it loads slow:
          > >
          > > ttp://diides.ncr.disa.mil/shade/dod_wide/ASDC3I/geoloc/geoloc.txt
          > >
          > > Cheers,
          > > Scott
          > > www.airforcebase.net
          >
          > --
          > Bill Boltinghouse
          > ex-USAF Security Service
          > 301x3 & 328x3 ECM Repairman
          > EC-47 - RC-130BII - RC-135
          >
          > http://www.ec47.com/
          >
          > QTH: Council Bluffs Iowa --- 10 miles north of Offutt AFB
          >
          > Web Sites
          > http://www.users.uswest.net/~combatsent
          > http://www.geocities.com/combat_sent_bill/
          > http://users3.50megs.com/combatsent/
          > http://users3.50megs.com/superspy/
          > http://users4.50megs.com/fedcom2000/
          > http://users4.50megs.com/ncamonitor00/
          > http://users4.50megs.com/ncamonitor99
          > eGroups
          > http://www.egroups.com/group/fedcom2000
          > http://www.egroups.com/group/naoc-tacamo-monitor
          > http://www.egroups.com/group/RC135SNOOP
          > http://www.egroups.com/group/militarymonitoring
          > http://www.egroups.com/group/milsatcom
          > http://www.egroups.com/group/usafssescaficaiansaintel
        • combatsent@uswest.net
          If you take time to read all of the docs, you can learn how to populate a Microsoft Access Database. They have some example and lots of docs. ... [eGroups] My
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
            If you take time to read all of the docs, you can learn how
            to populate a Microsoft Access Database.
            They have some example and lots of docs.

            Mark Foster wrote:

            >
            >

            [eGroups] My Groups | coldwarcomms Main Page | Start a
            new group!
            >
            > At 12:08 PM 9/10/2000 -0500, you wrote:
            >
            > >DISA has an interesting web site which includes a page of
            > geoloc codes
            > >with names (unfortunately it does not give the state or
            > installation
            > >kind). These entries *look* like GWEN sites, but they
            > are new to me.
            > >Are you familiar with any of these, possibly under
            > another name? And if
            > >so, do you know what state they are in (aside from the
            > two obvious
            > >ones)?
            >
            > Neat list. Includes:
            >
            > - All of the 80's vintage AUTOVON sites
            > - Some other interesting sites in the list:
            > Lamar
            > High Point
            > Green Hill
            > Greenbrier
            > Lewisburg
            > Bluemont
            > Florida City

            --
            Bill Boltinghouse
            ex-USAF Security Service
            301x3 & 328x3 ECM Repairman
            EC-47 - RC-130BII - RC-135

            http://www.ec47.com/

            QTH: Council Bluffs Iowa --- 10 miles north of Offutt AFB

            Web Sites
            http://www.users.uswest.net/~combatsent
            http://www.geocities.com/combat_sent_bill/
            http://users3.50megs.com/combatsent/
            http://users3.50megs.com/superspy/
            http://users4.50megs.com/fedcom2000/
            http://users4.50megs.com/ncamonitor00/
            http://users4.50megs.com/ncamonitor99
            eGroups
            http://www.egroups.com/group/fedcom2000
            http://www.egroups.com/group/naoc-tacamo-monitor
            http://www.egroups.com/group/RC135SNOOP
            http://www.egroups.com/group/militarymonitoring
            http://www.egroups.com/group/milsatcom
            http://www.egroups.com/group/usafssescaficaiansaintel
          • Bob Sayers
            The message ... Is this the same as the GEOREF system used by other NATO countries, Scott? A full reference in this system is
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 11, 2000
              The message <39BBFF07.381B6EDF@...>
              from Scott Murdock <scott-murdock@...> contains these words:

              > Yes, the geolocation codes (four position, alpha) are a standard data
              > element used in many DoD database systems to identify locations. They
              > are used to identify actual military bases as well as any location of
              > interest (refueling tracks, drop zones, civil airports, dams, docks,
              > cities, etc.).

              > For example, in the USAF you'll encounter them in the real property
              > system, the manpower system (on the Unit Manpower Document), and the
              > personnel system (on TDY and PCS orders, etc.).

              Is this the same as the GEOREF system used by other NATO countries, Scott?
              A full reference in this system is 4 alpha characters and up to 8
              digits (giving
              an accuracy to 0.01 of a minute of arc) but obviously the four alpha
              characters would be sufficient for the type of locations described.

              I'm sure that there are US DoD publications which describe this system,
              but UK readers might like to obtain the Ministry of Defence publication
              "Manual of Map Reading & Land Navigation" (ISBN 0 11 772611 7) which
              does an excellent job of describing GEOREF and a number of other map
              referencing systems in military useage.


              Bob, G8IYK
            • combatsent@uswest.net
              I think that you are talking about UTM Coordinates. Universal Transmercator The UTM s are used for calling airstrikes and such. Very accurate! We used them in
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 11, 2000
                I think that you are talking about UTM Coordinates.
                Universal Transmercator
                The UTM's are used for calling airstrikes and such.
                Very accurate!
                We used them in Vietnam for our DF locating of the bad guys!

                Bob Sayers wrote:

                >
                >

                [eGroups] My Groups | coldwarcomms Main Page | Start a
                new group!
                >
                > The message <39BBFF07.381B6EDF@...>
                > from Scott Murdock <scott-murdock@...>
                > contains these words:
                >
                > > Yes, the geolocation codes (four position, alpha) are a
                > standard data
                > > element used in many DoD database systems to identify
                > locations. They
                > > are used to identify actual military bases as well as
                > any location of
                > > interest (refueling tracks, drop zones, civil airports,
                > dams, docks,
                > > cities, etc.).
                >
                > > For example, in the USAF you'll encounter them in the
                > real property
                > > system, the manpower system (on the Unit Manpower
                > Document), and the
                > > personnel system (on TDY and PCS orders, etc.).
                >
                > Is this the same as the GEOREF system used by other NATO
                > countries, Scott?
                > A full reference in this system is 4 alpha characters and
                > up to 8
                > digits (giving
                > an accuracy to 0.01 of a minute of arc) but obviously the
                > four alpha
                > characters would be sufficient for the type of locations
                > described.
                >
                > I'm sure that there are US DoD publications which describe
                > this system,
                > but UK readers might like to obtain the Ministry of
                > Defence publication
                > "Manual of Map Reading & Land Navigation" (ISBN 0 11
                > 772611 7) which
                > does an excellent job of describing GEOREF and a number of
                > other map
                > referencing systems in military useage.
                >
                >
                > Bob, G8IYK
                >
                >

                --
                Bill Boltinghouse
                ex-USAF Security Service
                301x3 & 328x3 ECM Repairman
                EC-47 - RC-130BII - RC-135

                http://www.ec47.com/

                QTH: Council Bluffs Iowa --- 10 miles north of Offutt AFB

                Web Sites
                http://www.users.uswest.net/~combatsent/
                http://www.geocities.com/combat_sent_bill/
                http://users3.50megs.com/combatsent/
                http://users3.50megs.com/superspy/
                http://users4.50megs.com/fedcom2000/
                http://users4.50megs.com/ncamonitor00/
                http://users4.50megs.com/ncamonitor99/
                http://users5.50megs.com/rc130bii6988/
                eGroups
                http://www.egroups.com/group/fedcom2000
                http://www.egroups.com/group/naoc-tacamo-monitor
                http://www.egroups.com/group/RC130BII
                http://www.egroups.com/group/RC135SNOOP
                http://www.egroups.com/group/militarymonitoring
                http://www.egroups.com/group/milsatcom
                http://www.egroups.com/group/usafssescaficaiansaintel
              • Scott Murdock
                Bob, The geolocation code itself is just shorthand for the location, the letters have no significance. In the geographic locations database as maintained by
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 11, 2000
                  Bob,

                  The geolocation code itself is just shorthand for the location, the
                  letters have no significance.

                  In the geographic locations database as maintained by the JCS, you can
                  find the latitude and longitude to go with the codes -- and the
                  accompanying location name, location kind, country, state, etc.

                  Scott



                  Bob Sayers wrote:
                  >
                  > [eGroups] My Groups | coldwarcomms Main Page
                  >
                  > The message <39BBFF07.381B6EDF@...>
                  > from Scott Murdock <scott-murdock@...> contains these
                  > words:
                  >
                  > > Yes, the geolocation codes (four position, alpha) are a standard
                  > data
                  > > element used in many DoD database systems to identify locations.
                  > They
                  > > are used to identify actual military bases as well as any location
                  > of
                  > > interest (refueling tracks, drop zones, civil airports, dams, docks,
                  > > cities, etc.).
                  >
                  > > For example, in the USAF you'll encounter them in the real property
                  > > system, the manpower system (on the Unit Manpower Document), and the
                  > > personnel system (on TDY and PCS orders, etc.).
                  >
                  > Is this the same as the GEOREF system used by other NATO countries,
                  > Scott?
                  > A full reference in this system is 4 alpha characters and up to 8
                  > digits (giving
                  > an accuracy to 0.01 of a minute of arc) but obviously the four alpha
                  > characters would be sufficient for the type of locations described.
                  >
                  > I'm sure that there are US DoD publications which describe this
                  > system,
                  > but UK readers might like to obtain the Ministry of Defence
                  > publication
                  > "Manual of Map Reading & Land Navigation" (ISBN 0 11 772611 7) which
                  > does an excellent job of describing GEOREF and a number of other map
                  > referencing systems in military useage.
                  >
                  > Bob, G8IYK
                • combatsent@uswest.net
                  Actually, the whole kit and kaboodle is there. This is the C3I site that is used for everything within DISA and by the other military units. Each subunit of
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 12, 2000
                    Actually, the whole kit and kaboodle is there.
                    This is the C3I site that is used for everything within DISA
                    and by the other military units.
                    Each subunit of the entire DOEII site is there you just need
                    to read the manuals and have a huge hard drive and alot of
                    time on your hands. If you donwload each setup and run the
                    setup file, then you will end up with an Access Database
                    loaded with the entire database. This would likely take
                    about 10GB or more to do this. The paygrade info is there as
                    is the manning requirements (classified) for many projects.
                    NIMA data is available but may be partly classified.

                    You need to start at the SHADE web site to locate the
                    manuals and then get started.
                    Let me know if you get some interesting stuff if you do it!

                    Bill

                    ====================

                    Scott Murdock wrote:

                    >
                    >

                    [eGroups] My Groups | coldwarcomms Main Page | Start a
                    new group!
                    >
                    > I think I added smoke to the fog with my last post!
                    >
                    > I didn't mean to imply the full-up locations database
                    > (state, lat, lon,
                    > etc.) was also on the DISA web site -- its not. Sorry if
                    > I sent any of
                    > you on a wild goose chase!
                    >
                    > The lack of full data on the DISA site is what spurred my
                    > original
                    > question -- trying to "fill in the blanks" with state and
                    > other location
                    > information on those tantalizing potential GWEN sites.
                    >
                    > The full locations database with lat, lon, st, etc. is
                    > available for
                    > those in the military who need to use it; us outsiders
                    > aren't so lucky.
                    > A FOIA request might do the trick -- I attempted this very
                    > feat several
                    > years ago, but I gave up when it died a slow (18-month)
                    > death of being
                    > passed from one organization to another. From the DISA
                    > web site, I've
                    > now learned that JCS seems to be the proper authority --
                    > maybe a FOIA
                    > request to them would do the trick? If anyone tries, I'd
                    > like to hear
                    > how you fare.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > Scott Murdock
                    > www.airforcebase.net
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Scott Murdock wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Bob,
                    > >
                    > > The geolocation code itself is just shorthand for the
                    > location, the
                    > > letters have no significance.
                    > >
                    > > In the geographic locations database as maintained by
                    > the JCS, you can
                    > > find the latitude and longitude to go with the codes --
                    > and the
                    > > accompanying location name, location kind, country,
                    > state, etc.
                    > >
                    > > Scott
                    > >
                    > > Bob Sayers wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > [eGroups] My Groups | coldwarcomms Main Page
                    > > >
                    > > > The message <39BBFF07.381B6EDF@...>
                    > > > from Scott Murdock <scott-murdock@...>
                    > contains these
                    > > > words:
                    > > >
                    > > > > Yes, the geolocation codes (four position, alpha)
                    > are a standard
                    > > > data
                    > > > > element used in many DoD database systems to
                    > identify locations.
                    > > > They
                    > > > > are used to identify actual military bases as well
                    > as any location
                    > > > of
                    > > > > interest (refueling tracks, drop zones, civil
                    > airports, dams, docks,
                    > > > > cities, etc.).
                    > > >
                    > > > > For example, in the USAF you'll encounter them in
                    > the real property
                    > > > > system, the manpower system (on the Unit Manpower
                    > Document), and the
                    > > > > personnel system (on TDY and PCS orders, etc.).
                    > > >
                    > > > Is this the same as the GEOREF system used by other
                    > NATO countries,
                    > > > Scott?
                    > > > A full reference in this system is 4 alpha characters
                    > and up to 8
                    > > > digits (giving
                    > > > an accuracy to 0.01 of a minute of arc) but obviously
                    > the four alpha
                    > > > characters would be sufficient for the type of
                    > locations described.
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm sure that there are US DoD publications which
                    > describe this
                    > > > system,
                    > > > but UK readers might like to obtain the Ministry of
                    > Defence
                    > > > publication
                    > > > "Manual of Map Reading & Land Navigation" (ISBN 0 11
                    > 772611 7) which
                    > > > does an excellent job of describing GEOREF and a
                    > number of other map
                    > > > referencing systems in military useage.
                    > > >
                    > > > Bob, G8IYK

                    --
                    Bill Boltinghouse
                    ex-USAF Security Service
                    301x3 & 328x3 ECM Repairman
                    EC-47 - RC-130BII - RC-135

                    http://www.ec47.com/

                    QTH: Council Bluffs Iowa --- 10 miles north of Offutt AFB

                    Web Sites
                    http://www.users.uswest.net/~combatsent/
                    http://www.geocities.com/combat_sent_bill/
                    http://users3.50megs.com/combatsent/
                    http://users3.50megs.com/superspy/
                    http://users4.50megs.com/fedcom2000/
                    http://users4.50megs.com/ncamonitor00/
                    http://users4.50megs.com/ncamonitor99/
                    http://users5.50megs.com/rc130bii6988/
                    eGroups
                    http://www.egroups.com/group/fedcom2000
                    http://www.egroups.com/group/naoc-tacamo-monitor
                    http://www.egroups.com/group/RC130BII
                    http://www.egroups.com/group/RC135SNOOP
                    http://www.egroups.com/group/militarymonitoring
                    http://www.egroups.com/group/milsatcom
                    http://www.egroups.com/group/usafssescaficaiansaintel
                  • Scott Murdock
                    I think I added smoke to the fog with my last post! I didn t mean to imply the full-up locations database (state, lat, lon, etc.) was also on the DISA web site
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 12, 2000
                      I think I added smoke to the fog with my last post!

                      I didn't mean to imply the full-up locations database (state, lat, lon,
                      etc.) was also on the DISA web site -- its not. Sorry if I sent any of
                      you on a wild goose chase!

                      The lack of full data on the DISA site is what spurred my original
                      question -- trying to "fill in the blanks" with state and other location
                      information on those tantalizing potential GWEN sites.

                      The full locations database with lat, lon, st, etc. is available for
                      those in the military who need to use it; us outsiders aren't so lucky.
                      A FOIA request might do the trick -- I attempted this very feat several
                      years ago, but I gave up when it died a slow (18-month) death of being
                      passed from one organization to another. From the DISA web site, I've
                      now learned that JCS seems to be the proper authority -- maybe a FOIA
                      request to them would do the trick? If anyone tries, I'd like to hear
                      how you fare.

                      Cheers,
                      Scott Murdock
                      www.airforcebase.net



                      Scott Murdock wrote:
                      >
                      > Bob,
                      >
                      > The geolocation code itself is just shorthand for the location, the
                      > letters have no significance.
                      >
                      > In the geographic locations database as maintained by the JCS, you can
                      > find the latitude and longitude to go with the codes -- and the
                      > accompanying location name, location kind, country, state, etc.
                      >
                      > Scott
                      >
                      > Bob Sayers wrote:
                      > >
                      > > [eGroups] My Groups | coldwarcomms Main Page
                      > >
                      > > The message <39BBFF07.381B6EDF@...>
                      > > from Scott Murdock <scott-murdock@...> contains these
                      > > words:
                      > >
                      > > > Yes, the geolocation codes (four position, alpha) are a standard
                      > > data
                      > > > element used in many DoD database systems to identify locations.
                      > > They
                      > > > are used to identify actual military bases as well as any location
                      > > of
                      > > > interest (refueling tracks, drop zones, civil airports, dams, docks,
                      > > > cities, etc.).
                      > >
                      > > > For example, in the USAF you'll encounter them in the real property
                      > > > system, the manpower system (on the Unit Manpower Document), and the
                      > > > personnel system (on TDY and PCS orders, etc.).
                      > >
                      > > Is this the same as the GEOREF system used by other NATO countries,
                      > > Scott?
                      > > A full reference in this system is 4 alpha characters and up to 8
                      > > digits (giving
                      > > an accuracy to 0.01 of a minute of arc) but obviously the four alpha
                      > > characters would be sufficient for the type of locations described.
                      > >
                      > > I'm sure that there are US DoD publications which describe this
                      > > system,
                      > > but UK readers might like to obtain the Ministry of Defence
                      > > publication
                      > > "Manual of Map Reading & Land Navigation" (ISBN 0 11 772611 7) which
                      > > does an excellent job of describing GEOREF and a number of other map
                      > > referencing systems in military useage.
                      > >
                      > > Bob, G8IYK
                    • Albert LaFrance
                      Here s another DoD web page which offers some possible clues to interesting places. It s a list of FY99 defense contracts by state and county, giving the
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 12, 2000
                        Here's another DoD web page which offers some possible clues to interesting
                        places. It's a list of FY99 defense contracts by state and county, giving
                        the contractor's name, location, and dollar amount.

                        http://web1.whs.osd.mil/peid/st/st25/ST25WWW.HTM

                        Albert
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