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Re: [coldwarcomms] Re: Boeing EC-135 Looking Glass aircraft

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  • John Bass
    Anyone that considers major regional, or even global war, unlikely without nukes, needs seriously to consider the evil that lurks in the hearts of men and
    Message 1 of 27 , Nov 4, 2006
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      Anyone that considers major regional, or even global war, unlikely without nukes, needs seriously to consider the evil that lurks in the hearts of men and women thinking they are doing the right thing for religous, national, and cultural gain. Especially middle east clerics these days, using war to spread their faith, with little regard for other faiths.

      Until the UN can be replaced with a body that has a mandated charter for human rights, the only thing that stands in the way of major regional wars, are what is left of the cold war infrastructure.

      John Young <jya@...> wrote:
      Today's picayune terrorists are small fry by comparison with
      the giants still robbing national treasuries while spreading fear
      as diversion. Perhaps some day fiction wil catch up to this
      banditry, but that will probably not be done by Tom Clancy and
      others making a bundle off perpetuating the need for heroic
      defenses against chimeras of national security threats, in
      secret and camouflaged by lots of smoke.








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    • John Bass
      I think your intended debate of weapons policy and deployment is off topic for this group - something of an endless rathole. -- John John Young
      Message 2 of 27 , Nov 4, 2006
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        I think your intended debate of weapons policy and deployment is off topic for this group - something of an endless rathole. -- John



        John Young <jya@...> wrote: This topic winds back to coldwarcomm in the matter of distributing
        access codes for arming nuclear weapons: revisions, updates, spoofs,
        and other customary means and methods of cloaking the most secure
        communications, a process never finished, never wholly trustworthy.









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      • tsniffin20902
        Ok, While John s ending statement may have been off topic, the rest of his post was interesting and consistent with on-going discussion. However, your reply
        Message 3 of 27 , Nov 5, 2006
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          Ok, While John's ending statement may have been off topic, the rest of
          his post was interesting and consistent with on-going discussion.
          However, your reply (below)was even further off topic. Let it go..

          Reading through Bellovin's research on PALs was very interesting. It
          forced me to go back through nuc command can control links to
          understand the process. Political and social issues aside, I'm
          curious to hear what others on the list view as alternatives to the
          current PAL/EAS system?

          TS


          --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, John Bass <fpga_toys@...> wrote:

          "Anyone that considers major regional, or even global war, unlikely
          without nukes, needs seriously to consider the evil that lurks in the
          hearts of men and women thinking they are doing the right thing for
          religous, national, and cultural gain. Especially middle east clerics
          these days, using war to spread their faith, with little regard for
          other faiths.

          Until the UN can be replaced with a body that has a mandated charter
          for human rights, the only thing that stands in the way of major
          regional wars, are what is left of the cold war infrastructure."

          --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, John Bass <fpga_toys@...> wrote:
          >
          > I think your intended debate of weapons policy and deployment is off
          topic for this group - something of an endless rathole. -- John
          >
        • John Bass
          A lot more than ending statement ... if it s fair game, I ll surely be happy to debate, and rebuke, the politics he presents so strongly. John tsniffin20902
          Message 4 of 27 , Nov 5, 2006
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            A lot more than ending statement ... if it's fair game, I'll surely be happy to debate, and rebuke, the politics he presents so strongly.

            John

            tsniffin20902 <TSniffin@...> wrote: Ok, While John's ending statement may have been off topic, the rest of
            his post was interesting and consistent with on-going discussion.
            However, your reply (below)was even further off topic. Let it go..

            Reading through Bellovin's research on PALs was very interesting. It
            forced me to go back through nuc command can control links to
            understand the process. Political and social issues aside, I'm
            curious to hear what others on the list view as alternatives to the
            current PAL/EAS system?

            TS

            --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, John Bass <fpga_toys@...> wrote:

            "Anyone that considers major regional, or even global war, unlikely
            without nukes, needs seriously to consider the evil that lurks in the
            hearts of men and women thinking they are doing the right thing for
            religous, national, and cultural gain. Especially middle east clerics
            these days, using war to spread their faith, with little regard for
            other faiths.

            Until the UN can be replaced with a body that has a mandated charter
            for human rights, the only thing that stands in the way of major
            regional wars, are what is left of the cold war infrastructure."

            --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, John Bass <fpga_toys@...> wrote:
            >
            > I think your intended debate of weapons policy and deployment is off
            topic for this group - something of an endless rathole. -- John
            >






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          • David Lesher
            ... FWIW: Steve promised me an update Real Soon Now on more PAL goodies. I ll let the list know when it is released. -- A host is a host from coast to
            Message 5 of 27 , Nov 5, 2006
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              Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
              >
              >
              > Reading through Bellovin's research on PALs was very interesting. It
              > forced me to go back through nuc command can control links to
              > understand the process. Political and social issues aside, I'm
              > curious to hear what others on the list view as alternatives to the
              > current PAL/EAS system?

              FWIW:
              Steve promised me an update Real Soon Now on more PAL goodies.
              I'll let the list know when it is released.



              --
              A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
              & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
              Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
              is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
            • Michael Harpe
              If the knows that contractor from Los Alamos who lived in the trailer park with a junkie he should be able to get a complete set of prints along with documents
              Message 6 of 27 , Nov 6, 2006
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                If the knows that contractor from Los Alamos who lived in the trailer park with
                a junkie he should be able to get a complete set of prints along with documents
                on how to bypass the PAL altogether!

                I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of that incident on here.

                I think we should be discussing LANLs security!

                Mike Harpe

                --- David Lesher <wb8foz@...> wrote:

                > Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
                > >
                > >
                > > Reading through Bellovin's research on PALs was very interesting. It
                > > forced me to go back through nuc command can control links to
                > > understand the process. Political and social issues aside, I'm
                > > curious to hear what others on the list view as alternatives to the
                > > current PAL/EAS system?
              • Spencer
                ... trailer park with ... with documents ... on here. ... interesting. It ... to the ... and I thought this was an information, facts, trivia, and topic site
                Message 7 of 27 , Nov 6, 2006
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                  --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Michael Harpe <mharpe79@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > If the knows that contractor from Los Alamos who lived in the
                  trailer park with
                  > a junkie he should be able to get a complete set of prints along
                  with documents
                  > on how to bypass the PAL altogether!
                  >
                  > I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of that incident
                  on here.
                  >
                  > I think we should be discussing LANLs security!
                  >
                  > Mike Harpe
                  >
                  > --- David Lesher <wb8foz@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Reading through Bellovin's research on PALs was very
                  interesting. It
                  > > > forced me to go back through nuc command can control links to
                  > > > understand the process. Political and social issues aside, I'm
                  > > > curious to hear what others on the list view as alternatives
                  to the
                  > > > current PAL/EAS system?
                  >
                  and I thought this was an information, facts, trivia, and topic site
                  on communications, insted of a forum to promote wacked out, off
                  topic, views, or debates.

                  SILLY ME
                • superc
                  I would disagree, or add the caveat, only as they applied to the Cold War. What happened or happens after 1992 or so is, in my opinion, beyond the intended
                  Message 8 of 27 , Nov 6, 2006
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                    I would disagree, or add the caveat, only as they applied to the Cold War. What
                    happened or happens after 1992 or so is, in my opinion, beyond the intended ken of this
                    Yahoo group. If I write of Golf class diesel subs and Soviet problems with commo and
                    control of them, or even PAL A devices, that is a Cold War topic. I truly doubt that
                    anyone here, even if they had some knowledge, would (or should) be willing to discuss
                    current PALs or current control methodologies. When we write of DES cryptography we are
                    in Cold War commo methods, when however we discuss triple DES, or modern encryption keys
                    a decade beyond the capability of the 286 or the 486 that sat on our desks in that era,
                    or commo in the upper double digit giga band we have left the arena of the Cold War and
                    are now talking about things we should not talk about.


                    ---------- Original Message -----------
                    From: John Young <jya@...>
                    To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 11:01:47 -0800
                    Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Re: Boeing EC-135 Looking Glass aircraft

                    > Agreed that posts should remain on the topics of the list, but I
                    > understood this thread was about communications of aircraft,
                    > their security and reliability, which, if I understand the field, are
                    > the primary requirements of communications of whatever era
                    > and field of interest.
                    > snip
                  • Michael Harpe
                    Why shouldn t we talk about them? Mike
                    Message 9 of 27 , Nov 6, 2006
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                      Why shouldn't we talk about them?

                      Mike
                      >...we have left the arena of the
                      > Cold War and
                      > are now talking about things we should not talk about.
                    • John Young
                      Agreed that posts should remain on the topics of the list, but I understood this thread was about communications of aircraft, their security and reliability,
                      Message 10 of 27 , Nov 6, 2006
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                        Agreed that posts should remain on the topics of the list, but I
                        understood this thread was about communications of aircraft,
                        their security and reliability, which, if I understand the field, are
                        the primary requirements of communications of whatever era
                        and field of interest.

                        Nuclear weapons came into the picture as a corollary of
                        comm security and reliability in the face of increasingly sophisticated
                        attacks as knowledge of codes, ciphers, implementations and weaknesses
                        have become widespread with the rise of digital technology and the
                        Internet. That is, as these technologies came of out the secure, secret
                        realm, in large part due to the wind down of the Cold War and producers
                        seeking new markets in the open realm not limited to governments,
                        the capabilities of cracking and spying came to the market as well,
                        some to be sure on the black market but treachery, betrayal and
                        illegality were always a feature of secrecy-driven regimes, indeed
                        were the primary means nations stole each other's secrets.

                        Coldwarcomms is an intriguing topic for its contribution to the
                        liberation of Cold War mentality -- paranoia, compulsive secrecy,
                        shutting out the public from knowledge of what governments were
                        doing -- and there have been here an impressive amount of
                        disclosure of useful information of what worked and what was
                        snake oil.

                        9/11 slowed that, even reversed it as information was voluntarily
                        withdrawn, in some cases by request of national security-related
                        corporations who joined the reawakened opportunity to reinstitute
                        Cold War games along with a host of practitioners brought back
                        into government and business just when they believed the gravy
                        was gone for good.

                        Spying is up, way up inside the US, thanks to those who know
                        what side the moldy bread gets the grease. Keep that a secret, they warn,
                        or more often they just promote tin-foil-hat ridicule and allege off-topicness
                        -- both hoary tradecraft for hiding what should not be.

                        Whether nuclear weapons are secure is a long-lived aspect of
                        coldwarcomms. Disinfo about the topic was a harem-scarem from
                        Day One, presaging The Day After.
                      • Denny B
                        Can you gents at least change the subject header so we can errr. manage our email better?
                        Message 11 of 27 , Nov 6, 2006
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                          Can you gents at least change the subject header so we
                          can errr. manage our email better?

                          --->
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