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11056Re: [coldwarcomms] Re: Boeing EC-135 Looking Glass aircraft

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  • hooligan@aol.com
    Nov 3, 2006
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      *************
      In a message dated 11/2/2006 10:13:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      superc@... writes:

      Well the first thing you are missing is "The Hunt For Red October" and
      "Crimson Tide" are acknowledged works of fiction.
      *************
      Obviously. However, it seems like you're not familiar with the scenario
      presented in 'Crimson Tide," & how plausible it was. Watch the movie & then if
      you have the ability to present a concise rebuttal to what I wrote, feel
      free to publish it here. And again, it seems like you're not familiar with the
      persistent claims that the basics for 'The Hunt for Red October' have some
      resemblence to the truth, though the context for my mentioning that book/movie
      doesn't try to speculate on the veracity.

      I'm deleting your book report on 'Red Star Rogue' because I haven't read
      the book myself, so I wouldn't be so rude as to challenge your interpretation
      of it. Though you seem to be treading on think ice by (albeit inaccurately)
      trying to malign my mentioning of two other books.

      *************
      I would agree that a sub surfacing to find a war took place and no one
      invited it would normally have some deterrent value, but not that much
      once someone realized it was dependent on getting all the codecs
      before it could do anything and that the missiles it contained only
      had an 800 mile range. Remember we are talking about the days of
      casette tape computer programming and Golf subs.
      *************
      You may be talking specifically about casette tapes, Golfs & 800 mile
      range missiles, but I do remember clearly that I was not and am not.

      ************
      I challange anyone
      to signal a sub at sea on a secret patrol with a smoke signal from the
      shore. I also am dubious about HAM or military radio operators, in
      what would be left of the former USSR in such a scenario, being
      capable of getting the signal out for very long.
      ***********
      The challenge which you missed was that an EAM can be communicated by
      improvised means if necessary, and that as long as the EAM was properly
      formatted, decoded & authenticated, it could constitute a valid EWO, no matter what
      ridiculous means of communication the EAM was sent via. I'm sorry, I didn't
      consider that anyone would take me so literally as to ponder smoke signals...
      A military radio operator (or ham operator with the special caveat just for
      you being that I'm not suggesting a ham radio operator relaying an EAM is
      probable, only possible!) doesn't have to get the signal out for long, just long
      enough for at least one SSBN to get the complete message.


      **************
      Since the subs
      surface erratically, the signal would have to be fairly continuous and
      all by itself the signal would be suspect, its purpose could be
      presumed and the antenna site would probably be deemed worthy of a
      nuke strike of it's very own. Far more likely would be sending a
      fishing trawler to the last known patrol area and having it establish
      contact. Also presumably by week 2 Soviet fishing trawlers would be a
      very endangered species for that very reason.
      **********

      The concept of listening to specific channels at specific times goes back
      many decades, including your beloved 1968. HF burst transmissions also
      existed back then, as did hydoaccoustic methods.


      *************
      BTW, the Fail Deadly (AKA Dr. Strangelove) systems you speak of
      supposedly, if they ever really existed, according to at least one
      speculative account I once read, played a major role in October 1993
      as allegedly there was one such doomsday scenario device actually
      counting down in the basement of the Russian Parliment Building which
      hardliners (including Naval forces as anyone who saw the CNN footage
      knew) had (unknowingly?knew) had (unknowingly?<WBR>) seized and occup
      fire and tanks were used to quickly provide a bloody end to that
      otherwise pointless stand off, before that clock stopped.
      *************

      I was refering more along the lines of a Bellringer/Clarinet Pilgrim type
      system. In your unsubstantiated ("...if they ever really existed..."
      "...speculative..." "...allegedly..." all in one sentence makes me foolish to even
      address it!) discourse, you seem to be referring to the 'Dead Hand' system.
      While I expect that President Yeltsin had his 'Kazbek' nuclear suitcase, as
      did the handful of other senior military leaders, the constitutional crisis &
      near civil war seemed to be between the parliament & Yeltsin, and the known
      facts were enough (at least in Russia) for artillery from tanks to have been
      used, regardless of whether or not there was some sort of Kazbek/Dead Hand
      capability in their parliament building. I tend to think it's just as unlikely
      their parliament had that capability as it would be for the US Congress to
      have it.


      Tim






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