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Re: Concerning MLF Model

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  • karima_ziamari
    Hi Walid, Which language pairs are you working on? Egyptian Arabic? thank you karima Ziamari
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 10, 2012
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      Hi Walid,
      Which language pairs are you working on? Egyptian Arabic?
      thank you
      karima Ziamari

      --- In code-switching@yahoogroups.com, "Walid" <walid_5890@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi all,
      > First of all, many thanks to those who helped me in choosing my model of analysis, especially doctors: Adam Blaxter, Leoni Kotze, Mark Sebba, Alia Amir and MAGNO. I found that MLF model is the most suitable for analyzing codeswitching in my written Personal ads. However, I could not solve the problem of Islands which MYERS-SCOTTON mentioned in her model. Thus, I followed the Chinese study in considering the language of more words in the personal ad as the Matrix language (ML) and treated all syntactical parts related to the Embedded Language (EL) as codeswitched. I considered any number of noun or adjective phrases or block of sentences related to EL as CS.
      > My question is: is my method of counting any frequence of phrases and sentences related to EL as codeswitched correct?
      >
      > Your help is appreciated
      >
      > Walid Hassan
      > MA student at El_fayoum University
      >
    • KITENGYE SOKONI SEBASTIEN
      Je m excuse de prendre le débat peut-être au milieu. La méthode choisie est correcte mais il faut l appliquer avec beaucoup de prudence car l asymétrie
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 10, 2012
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        Je m'excuse de prendre le débat peut-être au milieu. La méthode choisie est correcte mais il faut l'appliquer avec beaucoup de prudence car l'asymétrie entre  les morphèmes des langues en présence peut s'avérer trompeuse  et que la langue dont les morphèmes sont les plus fréquents ne puissent être perçue comme la langue matrice. J'ai rencontré des problèmes similaires lors de la rédaction de ma thèse de doctorat. Aussi ai-je pensé d'enrichir le MLF modèle par la TST. Cela m'a permis de modulariser le modèle de la langue matrice grâce à la théorie de dépendance et aux modules de la TST. J'ai observé que là où le dénombrement des morphèmes peut poser problème, la clarté apporté par les types de relation syntaxique, les modules syntaxiques et morphologiques surtout ainsi que les règles topologiques déterminent clairement où se trouve la langue matrice. Ainsi, j'ai pu réunir l'ensemble du modèle sous ce que j'appelle
        "MODREM" (MODularisation, RElations syntaxiques et Mlf). (voir un exemple de cette application dans http://mtt.upf.edu/mtt2009/21-SKitengyeSokoni.pdf
        Salutation cordiale à tous.
        Sebastien KITENGYE SKONI
        Kinshasa
        République Démocratique du Congo

        ________________________________
        De : Walid <walid_5890@...>
        À : code-switching@yahoogroups.com
        Envoyé le : Mardi 10 juillet 2012 9h43
        Objet : [code-switching] Concerning MLF Model


         
        Hi all,
        First of all, many thanks to those who helped me in choosing my model of analysis, especially doctors: Adam Blaxter, Leoni Kotze, Mark Sebba, Alia Amir and MAGNO. I found that MLF model is the most suitable for analyzing codeswitching in my written Personal ads. However, I could not solve the problem of Islands which MYERS-SCOTTON mentioned in her model. Thus, I followed the Chinese study in considering the language of more words in the personal ad as the Matrix language (ML) and treated all syntactical parts related to the Embedded Language (EL) as codeswitched. I considered any number of noun or adjective phrases or block of sentences related to EL as CS.
        My question is: is my method of counting any frequence of phrases and sentences related to EL as codeswitched correct?

        Your help is appreciated

        Walid Hassan
        MA student at El_fayoum University




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • mostari hind
        Hi Walid , I have worked extensively on the MLF model for over 6 years , and the criterion you used for identifying the ML is now out of date . The criteria
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 10, 2012
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          Hi Walid ,
          I have worked extensively on the MLF model for over 6 years , and the criterion you used for identifying the ML is now out of date .
          The criteria for the ML identification changed from 1993 onwards. In fact, at the very beginning, Myers-Scotton (1993) claimed that the ML can be identified as the source of more morphemes in a discourse sample. As early as 1995, the claim was modified and it was explicitly rejected in the ‘Afterword’ in Myers-Scotton (1997:246) and did not appear in publications after 1993.
          So have a look at Myers-scotton book ' Bilingual encounters and grammatical outcomes ' (2001) and Duelling languages ( 1993).
           
          Good luck
          Dr Mostari  
          Algeria


          --- On Tue, 7/10/12, Walid <walid_5890@...> wrote:


          From: Walid <walid_5890@...>
          Subject: [code-switching] Concerning MLF Model
          To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012, 9:43 AM



           



          Hi all,
          First of all, many thanks to those who helped me in choosing my model of analysis, especially doctors: Adam Blaxter, Leoni Kotze, Mark Sebba, Alia Amir and MAGNO. I found that MLF model is the most suitable for analyzing codeswitching in my written Personal ads. However, I could not solve the problem of Islands which MYERS-SCOTTON mentioned in her model. Thus, I followed the Chinese study in considering the language of more words in the personal ad as the Matrix language (ML) and treated all syntactical parts related to the Embedded Language (EL) as codeswitched. I considered any number of noun or adjective phrases or block of sentences related to EL as CS.
          My question is: is my method of counting any frequence of phrases and sentences related to EL as codeswitched correct?

          Your help is appreciated

          Walid Hassan
          MA student at El_fayoum University








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mostari hind
            Bonsoir, Je pense que les critéres syntactiques , pycholinguistiques et pragmatiques fournis pas Myers-scotton sont suffisants pour etablir la ML vs EL
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 10, 2012
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            Bonsoir,
            Je pense que les critéres syntactiques , pycholinguistiques et pragmatiques fournis pas Myers-scotton sont suffisants pour etablir la ML vs EL bien que le model a des limites comme c'est le cas de tous model
             
             
            Mostari
             


            --- On Tue, 7/10/12, KITENGYE SOKONI SEBASTIEN <kitengyesokoni@...> wrote:


            From: KITENGYE SOKONI SEBASTIEN <kitengyesokoni@...>
            Subject: Re: [code-switching] Concerning MLF Model
            To: "code-switching@yahoogroups.com" <code-switching@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012, 6:50 PM



             



            Je m'excuse de prendre le débat peut-être au milieu. La méthode choisie est correcte mais il faut l'appliquer avec beaucoup de prudence car l'asymétrie entre  les morphèmes des langues en présence peut s'avérer trompeuse  et que la langue dont les morphèmes sont les plus fréquents ne puissent être perçue comme la langue matrice. J'ai rencontré des problèmes similaires lors de la rédaction de ma thèse de doctorat. Aussi ai-je pensé d'enrichir le MLF modèle par la TST. Cela m'a permis de modulariser le modèle de la langue matrice grâce à la théorie de dépendance et aux modules de la TST. J'ai observé que là où le dénombrement des morphèmes peut poser problème, la clarté apporté par les types de relation syntaxique, les modules syntaxiques et morphologiques surtout ainsi que les règles topologiques déterminent clairement où se trouve la langue matrice. Ainsi, j'ai pu réunir l'ensemble du modèle sous ce que j'appelle
            "MODREM" (MODularisation, RElations syntaxiques et Mlf). (voir un exemple de cette application dans http://mtt.upf.edu/mtt2009/21-SKitengyeSokoni.pdf
            Salutation cordiale à tous.
            Sebastien KITENGYE SKONI
            Kinshasa
            République Démocratique du Congo

            ________________________________
            De : Walid <walid_5890@...>
            À : code-switching@yahoogroups.com
            Envoyé le : Mardi 10 juillet 2012 9h43
            Objet : [code-switching] Concerning MLF Model

             
            Hi all,
            First of all, many thanks to those who helped me in choosing my model of analysis, especially doctors: Adam Blaxter, Leoni Kotze, Mark Sebba, Alia Amir and MAGNO. I found that MLF model is the most suitable for analyzing codeswitching in my written Personal ads. However, I could not solve the problem of Islands which MYERS-SCOTTON mentioned in her model. Thus, I followed the Chinese study in considering the language of more words in the personal ad as the Matrix language (ML) and treated all syntactical parts related to the Embedded Language (EL) as codeswitched. I considered any number of noun or adjective phrases or block of sentences related to EL as CS.
            My question is: is my method of counting any frequence of phrases and sentences related to EL as codeswitched correct?

            Your help is appreciated

            Walid Hassan
            MA student at El_fayoum University

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • leonikotze
            Dear Walid It is difficult to answer your question, because I am not quite sure exactly why you want to determine the ML. Are you aiming to do a grammatical
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 13, 2012
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              Dear Walid

              It is difficult to answer your question, because I am not quite sure exactly why you want to determine the ML. Are you aiming to do a grammatical analysis of your CS data? If you are looking at social meaning, and you find that the MLF is problematic, you could get around it by describing your data as a result/the outcome of, say, languages X, Y and Z, See in this regard Auer, P. (1984). "Bilingual Conversation". Amsterdam: John Benjamins. in his discussion about the problems re the term 'code'. You could then analyze the function/role of the different languages (or combination thereof) in contributing to the establishment of meaningful communication, without having to determine what the ML (or IL) is. This might mean that you have to choose another framework for your analysis, but you could also discuss in your dissertation what problems you experience with the MLF and suggest an alternative. I hope I make sense. Tell us a bit more about your aims, maybe we can offer some other solutions as well.


              Best
              Leoni Kotze

              --- In code-switching@yahoogroups.com, "Walid" <walid_5890@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi all,
              > First of all, many thanks to those who helped me in choosing my model of analysis, especially doctors: Adam Blaxter, Leoni Kotze, Mark Sebba, Alia Amir and MAGNO. I found that MLF model is the most suitable for analyzing codeswitching in my written Personal ads. However, I could not solve the problem of Islands which MYERS-SCOTTON mentioned in her model. Thus, I followed the Chinese study in considering the language of more words in the personal ad as the Matrix language (ML) and treated all syntactical parts related to the Embedded Language (EL) as codeswitched. I considered any number of noun or adjective phrases or block of sentences related to EL as CS.
              > My question is: is my method of counting any frequence of phrases and sentences related to EL as codeswitched correct?
              >
              > Your help is appreciated
              >
              > Walid Hassan
              > MA student at El_fayoum University
              >
            • ngoie irene
              Bonjour Monsieur Sebastien je suis heureuse de vous lire. je suis d accord avec vous moi aussi j ai eu les mêmes difficultés lors de mon mémoire de Master.
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 26, 2012
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                Bonjour Monsieur Sebastien
                je suis heureuse de vous lire. je suis d'accord avec vous moi aussi j ai eu les mêmes difficultés lors de mon mémoire de Master. Le livre de Karima Ziamari , que je salue d'ailleurs en passant,m' a aidé à trouver la solution. le  MLFa des limites.
                Irène ngoie kyungu
                Université de Lubumbashi
                République Démocratique du Congo

                --- En date de : Mar 10.7.12, KITENGYE SOKONI SEBASTIEN <kitengyesokoni@...> a écrit :

                De: KITENGYE SOKONI SEBASTIEN <kitengyesokoni@...>
                Objet: Re: [code-switching] Concerning MLF Model
                À: "code-switching@yahoogroups.com" <code-switching@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Mardi 10 juillet 2012, 17h50
















                 









                Je m'excuse de prendre le débat peut-être au milieu. La méthode choisie est correcte mais il faut l'appliquer avec beaucoup de prudence car l'asymétrie entre  les morphèmes des langues en présence peut s'avérer trompeuse  et que la langue dont les morphèmes sont les plus fréquents ne puissent être perçue comme la langue matrice. J'ai rencontré des problèmes similaires lors de la rédaction de ma thèse de doctorat. Aussi ai-je pensé d'enrichir le MLF modèle par la TST. Cela m'a permis de modulariser le modèle de la langue matrice grâce à la théorie de dépendance et aux modules de la TST. J'ai observé que là où le dénombrement des morphèmes peut poser problème, la clarté apporté par les types de relation syntaxique, les modules syntaxiques et morphologiques surtout ainsi que les règles topologiques déterminent clairement où se trouve la langue matrice. Ainsi, j'ai pu réunir l'ensemble du modèle sous ce que
                j'appelle

                "MODREM" (MODularisation, RElations syntaxiques et Mlf). (voir un exemple de cette application dans http://mtt.upf.edu/mtt2009/21-SKitengyeSokoni.pdf

                Salutation cordiale à tous.

                Sebastien KITENGYE SKONI

                Kinshasa

                République Démocratique du Congo



                ________________________________

                De : Walid <walid_5890@...>

                À : code-switching@yahoogroups.com

                Envoyé le : Mardi 10 juillet 2012 9h43

                Objet : [code-switching] Concerning MLF Model



                 

                Hi all,

                First of all, many thanks to those who helped me in choosing my model of analysis, especially doctors: Adam Blaxter, Leoni Kotze, Mark Sebba, Alia Amir and MAGNO. I found that MLF model is the most suitable for analyzing codeswitching in my written Personal ads. However, I could not solve the problem of Islands which MYERS-SCOTTON mentioned in her model. Thus, I followed the Chinese study in considering the language of more words in the personal ad as the Matrix language (ML) and treated all syntactical parts related to the Embedded Language (EL) as codeswitched. I considered any number of noun or adjective phrases or block of sentences related to EL as CS.

                My question is: is my method of counting any frequence of phrases and sentences related to EL as codeswitched correct?



                Your help is appreciated



                Walid Hassan

                MA student at El_fayoum University



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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