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Re: Code switching and borrowing... again

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  • Leonie Kotze
    Dear Patricia It is quite difficult to categorize different words from different languages into neat categories, such as borrowings , code switching , loan
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 5, 2011
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      Dear Patricia



      It is quite difficult to categorize different words from different languages
      into neat categories, such as 'borrowings', 'code switching', loan words
      etc. Different views are held by different linguists about this as well, as
      you've pointed out.



      Within the recent post-structuralist view of language, language is no
      longer regarded as an entity with clear boundaries. I will try to get some
      references for you in this regard. This might be of some help to you and
      your students.



      To solve your problem for the moment, I suggest you make your students
      aware of the difficulties in deciding what counts as borrowing at what not.
      Present the different theories to them. You don't have to make this too
      difficult. The difficulty with language boundaries and entities such as
      'borrowing', 'loan words' etc, can then be discussed in your/their study
      and/or you can decide which view you/they would like to maintain in
      your/their study. In my study of code swithing (between English and
      Afrikaans), I stated that I will not distinguis between loan words,
      borrowing, code swithing, code mixing etc, but that I will regard any
      instance of Afrikaans within the English texts (those in my data, of course)
      as 'code swithing.' This does not mean that I do not see the value of
      different categories for code swithing.



      I hope this helps and I hope I make sense.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • adam.paliwala
      HI Patricia Like Leonie, I prefer to treat all examples of additional-language (L2) material in texts in a main language of communication (L1) as
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 6, 2011
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        HI Patricia

        Like Leonie, I prefer to treat all examples of additional-language (L2) material in texts in a main language of communication (L1) as code-switches, rather than borrowings.

        You may already have read Romaine's 'Bilingualism' (1989, chapter 4.6) and Myers-Scotton's article 'Comparing Codeswitching and Borrowing' (1992, Journal of Multilingual and Multicultural Development, Vol 13: 1&2, 1992, Carol M Eastman (ed). Special Issue Codeswitching) on the difference between borrowing and code-switching. Many linguists view borrowing and code-switching as forming a continuum of behaviour, with code-switching behaviour providing the means by which new words are introduced into a language. Jeffrey Heath provided an account of this in Moroccan Arabic (Code-Switching to Borrowing: foreign and diglossic mixing in Moroccan Arabic, 1989, Kegan Paul International: London and New York. Library of Arabic Lingusitics Monograph no.9).

        In general, I think it is fair to say that 'borrowings' can only be distinguished from 'code-switches' on the basis of, monolingual, community standards: Gardener-Chloros discusses 'French' words in Alsace German and points out that her bilingual informants varied a great deal in their opinion about whether particular words were borrowings or code-switches (see eg. her chapter in Milroy and Muysken's 'One Speaker, Two languages', 1995).

        So, on this basis alone you can have an interesting discussion with your class about the standards they might apply in distinguishing between a 'borrowing' into Spanish from English and a 'code-switch' from English. One important criteria might well be if they though a Spanish speaker with no knowledge of English (if such a person exists in the community) would understand the language. Another might be if they thought the English words fit well into the Spanish language around them (integration). Yet another might be if their meaning or usage has changed somehow, and/or if they replace Spanish words with the same meaning (semantics).

        Looking at your examples, I would agree that the first group are 'tag-switching'.

        The switching of discourse-tags, however, is something that is seen to be a characteristic features of 'mixed languages' by several linguists (see, eg. Maschler, and Oesch Serra in Auer's 'Code-Switching in Conversation: Language, interactions, and identity', 1998). If they are commonplace in the language of your tv shows, then they have probably been borrowed. Are they now discourse markers of the 'mixed code' of Spanglish?

        Perhaps your students could focus on whether the English tags they observe are used exactly as they are in English, and consider whether they are replacing Spanish tags and whether there has been any change in meaning as a result.

        Looking at your three other examples, in the first the construction 'un whiped cream' would seem to be a case of a mixed constituent NP featuring what Myers-Scotton (see eg. Contact Linguistics: Bilingual Encounter and Grammatical Outcomes, Carol Myers-Scotton, 2002, Oxford: Oxford university Press) terms an 'EL Island'. The English AdjP 'whipped cream' is well-formed in terms of English grammar, and has been integrated into the Spanish grammar by the use of the determiner 'un' (English does not require a determiner here eg. *a whipped cream). Ask your students what they think 'whipped cream' is in Spanglish: the semantics seem to have changed, indicating that it has been borrowed.

        However, I think the questions you raise about whether these examples are actually 'borrowings' is very valid.

        It seems to me that in with the introduction in "Con esto que le estoy enseñando, un whiped cream" the speaker flags the English AdjP as a label for something they are pointing to. Perhaps ask the students: 'if 'whiped cream' was a borrowing, and presumably known by all the Spanish-speaking audiences of the TV shows) would it need to be highlighted in this way?'.

        I think the other two examples are even stronger examples of the same behaviour: 'house de flores' is actually an explanatory repetition of 'florería', and 'ensure' doubles the meaning of 'verificar'. To me (and I am outside of the language community, so this is just an impression), these examples lthese examples look less like borrowings, and more like using code-switches to introduce English-language alternative vocabulary for Spanish words.

        Re. your reference to 'nonce loans' : I am not entirely sure that the examples you give show no signs of integration with Spanish: 'un whiped cream' seems to fit Spanish rules for forming NPs, as does 'house de flores', and 'ensure' fits well into the structure of the sentence where it is used as though it is a Spanish verb. Depending on the pronunciation, these may fit descriptions of 'nonce loans', though I do prefer to consider 'nonce loans' as code-switching anyway, as discussed above.

        Studying mixed language always involves us in exactly these issues, and opinions diverge strongly. I've listed some linguists whose ideas I have found useful, and given my reading of your examples, which I hope is useful, but bear in mind, for example, that Suzanne Poplack's work on Spanish and English code-switching made very strong distinctions between borrowing and code-switching, and introduced the term 'nonce loan', and Poplack and Meechan together (in Milory and Muysken, above) have shown statistically significant differences between French borrowings and code-switches in Wolof and Fongbe communities, so this whole area remains fairly active!

        I can see why you have highlighted the examples you presented as potentially 'not-borrowings', and I think you have a good opportunity to use them to make some important points about the other types of language mixing your students may not have chosen to focus on.

        I hope this has been of some help.

        Very best regards,
        Peace and love

        Adam Blaxter Paliwala



        --- In code-switching@yahoogroups.com, "patriciatorres_traductologia" <patritorres@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi everyone,
        >
        > I am a teaching assistant at a Venezuelan university, and I'm currently guiding a group of students making a research about Spanglish in TV shows. Specifically, they are analyzing a well-known TV reality show produced in Spanish in Miami, and although a number of participants have the usual language-interference phenomena, the students decided to study just borrowings. I have doubts with some sentences they included in the analysis as borrowings...
        >
        > They included as examples sentences such as "Ya yo tengo 21, sorry" (I am already 21, sorry) and "So, fui a la conferencia" (So, I went to the conference), but I found that terms such as "so" and "sorry" (as well as "anyway" or "all righth") are "tag-switching". Am I right?
        >
        > They also included sentences such as "Con esto que le estoy enseñando, un whiped cream" (With this I'm showing to you, a whiped cream) y "Yo trabajaba en una florería, house de flores" (I worked at a flower shop, a flower house) y "Yo me reúno con él para verificar de que me ensure que el sonido está como debe ser" (I met him to check, to ensure that sound is right). Are "whiped cream", "house" and "ensure" examples of borrowing or code switching? (I found the concept of "nonce borrowing", but I think it is not applicable to these cases, as the words are not adapted whatsoever).
        >
        > I cannot make up my mind! I just jump from one theory to another, one author to another. I hope you can help me sort those phrases out...
        >
        > Thanks a lot!
        >
        > Patricia
        >
      • Leonie Kotze
        Dear Adam Thank you for your answer. It makes for very interesting reading! Patricia, I would appreciate it if you keep us updated as to how your students
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 7, 2011
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          Dear Adam



          Thank you for your answer. It makes for very interesting reading!
          Patricia, I would appreciate it if you keep us updated as to how your
          students treated these mixed language occurences.



          Leoni



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Karina Salaun
          Hola Patricia En cuanto a los ejemplos que te presentan tus estudiantes. Es necesario delimitar la noción de Borrowing, términos completamente integrados
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 7, 2011
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            Hola Patricia

            En cuanto a los ejemplos que te presentan tus estudiantes. Es necesario
            delimitar la noción de Borrowing, términos completamente integrados al
            español y que han sufrido transformaciones a algún nivel lingüístico. No
            clasificaría estos términos como préstamos al menos que utilice la definición de
            (Carol Myers-Scotton (1981), Poplack et Meechan (1995)) de préstamos de
            circunstancias que permiten una negociación social. Si he entendido el
            objetivo de tus estudiantes es identificar las alternacias de códigos versus
            los Borrowing.

            Si se analiza el tipo de alternacia de códigos y su estructura sistématica, he
            de afirmar que en los ejemplos encontramos principalement tag switching o single
            switching.

            Ahora, un aspecto interesante en estos ejemplos según es analizar la función
            comunicativa de los marqueurs discursifs (Callahan 2004, p.70-75):
            so,sorry,anyway, all right,

            Hasta pronto

            SALAUN Atencio Karina

            Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
            Je dis tu a tous ceux que j'aime
            Même si je ne les ai vus qu'une seule fois
            Je dis tu a tous ceux qui s'aiment
            Même si je ne les connais pas

            (Barbara, Jacques Prévert)





            ________________________________
            From: patriciatorres_traductologia <patritorres@...>
            To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sun, June 5, 2011 6:54:11 AM
            Subject: [code-switching] Code switching and borrowing... again


            Hi everyone,

            I am a teaching assistant at a Venezuelan university, and I'm currently guiding
            a group of students making a research about Spanglish in TV shows. Specifically,
            they are analyzing a well-known TV reality show produced in Spanish in Miami,
            and although a number of participants have the usual language-interference
            phenomena, the students decided to study just borrowings. I have doubts with
            some sentences they included in the analysis as borrowings...


            They included as examples sentences such as "Ya yo tengo 21, sorry" (I am
            already 21, sorry) and "So, fui a la conferencia" (So, I went to the
            conference), but I found that terms such as "so" and "sorry" (as well as
            "anyway" or "all righth") are "tag-switching". Am I right?

            They also included sentences such as "Con esto que le estoy enseñando, un whiped
            cream" (With this I'm showing to you, a whiped cream) y "Yo trabajaba en una
            florería, house de flores" (I worked at a flower shop, a flower house) y "Yo me
            reúno con él para verificar de que me ensure que el sonido está como debe ser"
            (I met him to check, to ensure that sound is right). Are "whiped cream", "house"
            and "ensure" examples of borrowing or code switching? (I found the concept of
            "nonce borrowing", but I think it is not applicable to these cases, as the words
            are not adapted whatsoever).

            I cannot make up my mind! I just jump from one theory to another, one author to
            another. I hope you can help me sort those phrases out...


            Thanks a lot!

            Patricia




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Patricia Torres
            Leonie, Adam, thanks a lot for your comments! I deeply appretiate your views, and I m sure they will be useful for the debate -which, by the way, is
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 7, 2011
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              Leonie, Adam, thanks a lot for your comments! I deeply appretiate your
              views, and I'm sure they will be useful for the debate -which, by the way,
              is increasingly strident, as students get confused (they are overwhelmed by
              the quantity of concepts, trends, names, and studies, but please notice this
              is just an introductory course!). And it will get more and more interesting,
              as their final goal is to assess whether Spanglish is extending beyond the
              US, specifically to Latin America, through the media.

              Best regards,

              Patricia


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jim Fidelholtz
              Hi, All (Hola a todos), I m very surprised that really no one seems to have mentioned the phonological aspects in this discussion of borrowings vs. code
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 7, 2011
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                Hi, All (Hola a todos),

                I'm very surprised that really no one seems to have mentioned the
                phonological aspects in this discussion of borrowings vs. code switching.
                The discussion has matured a bit since the topic was raised, oh, in the
                1990s, if memory serves, but many of the same points have been raised.

                Specifically, consider the English word Bach (the composer). Anyone
                minimally 'culto' (American, which means pretty minimally ;-)> ) pronounces
                the name [bax] (NB: the [x] is virtually identical to the Mexican Spanish
                <j>), and this is true whether or not they have the slightest knowledge of
                German. Now, in earlier discussions, various persons maintained that this
                was 'code-switching', but the facts presented in this paragraph indicate
                that that position is an absurdity, since (1) not all who have that
                pronunciation even know German and (2) German [x] is never the pure velar
                like the Mexican voiceless velar fricative, but is either further back
                (almost postvelar, as in [ba>x]) or almost palatal (prevelar, as in [i�]
                <ich> 'I'), depending on the preceding vowel. In the same vein, I would
                query how the putatively English word 'so' is pronounced in the example
                given. If it is [sow], then there could be a decent case that it is a case
                of code switching. BUT if it pronounced [so] as in the expression 'so pena
                de �', then it is a bona fide borrowing into Spanish. I have no doubt that
                there could be intermediate cases, as in the early stages of borrowing, as
                well.

                Just a couple of thoughts on the subject.

                Jim

                --
                James L. Fidelholtz
                Posgrado en Ciencias del Lenguaje
                Instituto de Ciencias Sociales y Humanidades
                Benem�rita Universidad Aut�noma de Puebla, M�XICO


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Patricia Torres
                Karina, Jim, thanks a lot for adding new approaches to the debate. Jim, I m glad you mentioned the phonological aspect. Several students listed Chicago as a
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 8, 2011
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                  Karina, Jim, thanks a lot for adding new approaches to the debate.

                  Jim, I'm glad you mentioned the phonological aspect. Several students listed
                  "Chicago" as a borrowing and other wrote "spaghetti" when typing the audios
                  (instead of Spanish "espagueti") because "it is pronounced in English",
                  students said.

                  Having said that, I cannot check now, but I am almost certain that in the
                  corpus (the TV show in Spanish but produced in Miami), tag phrases such as
                  "anyway" and "sorry" are pronounced following the phonological rules of
                  English -at the beginning or the end of a phrase in Spanish. Young people
                  here (Venezuela) from time to time use such tag phrases, but they pronounce
                  them using Spanish phonemes (most evidently in the double 'r' in 'sorry').
                  Interesting, for their follow-up (try to determine whether Spanglish is
                  spreading to Latin America).

                  Karina, none of the student has added a communicative dimension to the
                  debate. I'm going to mention it... to see what new ideas they propose.

                  Best,

                  Patricia

                  On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Jim Fidelholtz <fidelholtz@...> wrote:

                  > Hi, All (Hola a todos),
                  >
                  > I'm very surprised that really no one seems to have mentioned the
                  > phonological aspects in this discussion of borrowings vs. code switching.
                  > The discussion has matured a bit since the topic was raised, oh, in the
                  > 1990s, if memory serves, but many of the same points have been raised.
                  >
                  > Specifically, consider the English word Bach (the composer). Anyone
                  > minimally 'culto' (American, which means pretty minimally ;-)> ) pronounces
                  > the name [bax] (NB: the [x] is virtually identical to the Mexican Spanish
                  > <j>), and this is true whether or not they have the slightest knowledge of
                  > German. Now, in earlier discussions, various persons maintained that this
                  > was 'code-switching', but the facts presented in this paragraph indicate
                  > that that position is an absurdity, since (1) not all who have that
                  > pronunciation even know German and (2) German [x] is never the pure velar
                  > like the Mexican voiceless velar fricative, but is either further back
                  > (almost postvelar, as in [ba>x]) or almost palatal (prevelar, as in [i�]
                  > <ich> 'I'), depending on the preceding vowel. In the same vein, I would
                  > query how the putatively English word 'so' is pronounced in the example
                  > given. If it is [sow], then there could be a decent case that it is a case
                  > of code switching. BUT if it pronounced [so] as in the expression 'so pena
                  > de �', then it is a bona fide borrowing into Spanish. I have no doubt that
                  > there could be intermediate cases, as in the early stages of borrowing, as
                  > well.
                  >
                  > Just a couple of thoughts on the subject.
                  >
                  > Jim
                  >
                  > --
                  > James L. Fidelholtz
                  > Posgrado en Ciencias del Lenguaje
                  > Instituto de Ciencias Sociales y Humanidades
                  > Benem�rita Universidad Aut�noma de Puebla, M�XICO
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > To Post a message: code-switching @ yahoogroups.com
                  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  > code-switching-unsubscribe @ yahoogroups.com
                  > Web page: http//groups.yahoo.com/group/code-switchingYahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Leonie Kotze
                  Dear Patricia (and others) In my first reply I mentioned the current notion in the linguistic field which regard language NOT as abound entity, but as a more
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 9, 2011
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                    Dear Patricia (and others)



                    In my first reply I mentioned the current notion in the linguistic field
                    which regard language NOT as abound entity, but as a more fluid eh .
                    phenomenon, for lack of a better word at the moment. I said in my email
                    that I would try to get more detail about this. Here it is: The notion is
                    called * METROLINGUALISM and has been coined by Otsuji and Pennycook in 2010
                    in an article in the International Journal of Multilingualism. Patricia,
                    this might complicate matters even further, but on the other hand, I think
                    it could prove very helpful with all the confusion and disagreement around
                    various terms for different occurences in mixed languages.



                    I must admit that I have not read the article myself, but metrolinguilism
                    was briefly discussed in a meeting between myself, another M student and
                    both our supervisors.



                    *With thanks to my supervisor, Prof Tommaso Milani who provided me with the
                    terms and the reference.



                    Lekker dag aan almal (Nice day to all) (smiley)

                    Leoni



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jim Fidelholtz
                    Hi, Patricia, Well, I think (in Spanish) that Chicago (especially when pronounced [tshikaGo] a la español) IS a borrowing (from English). Interestingly, in
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 14, 2011
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                      Hi, Patricia,

                      Well, I think (in Spanish) that 'Chicago' (especially when pronounced
                      [tshikaGo] a la espa�ol) IS a borrowing (from English). Interestingly, in
                      English, it is pronounced [sh@kago], which (except for a nasal [a]) is
                      virtually identical to the Miami pronunciation of the word meaning roughly
                      'skunk place' (other Algonquianists derive it from 'skunk cabbage' or other
                      stuff; don't believe it!). Btw, the word 'skunk' is also derived from the
                      same Algonquian root. In English, Chicago is almost never pronounced with
                      [tsh] (a daughter of mine goes to school there--I'll ask her to be sure, but
                      none of *my* buddies pronounce it that way). It's a bit more problematic to
                      characterize the 'English' pronunciation of Chicago in the middle of a
                      sentence otherwise in Spanish (as a code switch or as a borrowing) in the
                      speech of a full bilingual. I can see reasons in some circumstances for
                      going either way, depending on the cognitive state of the speaker.

                      Jim

                      On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Patricia Torres
                      <patritorres@...>wrote:

                      > Karina, Jim, thanks a lot for adding new approaches to the debate.
                      >
                      > Jim, I'm glad you mentioned the phonological aspect. Several students
                      > listed
                      > "Chicago" as a borrowing and other wrote "spaghetti" when typing the audios
                      > (instead of Spanish "espagueti") because "it is pronounced in English",
                      > students said.
                      >
                      > Having said that, I cannot check now, but I am almost certain that in the
                      > corpus (the TV show in Spanish but produced in Miami), tag phrases such as
                      > "anyway" and "sorry" are pronounced following the phonological rules of
                      > English -at the beginning or the end of a phrase in Spanish. Young people
                      > here (Venezuela) from time to time use such tag phrases, but they
                      > pronounce
                      > them using Spanish phonemes (most evidently in the double 'r' in 'sorry').
                      > Interesting, for their follow-up (try to determine whether Spanglish is
                      > spreading to Latin America).
                      >
                      > Karina, none of the student has added a communicative dimension to the
                      > debate. I'm going to mention it... to see what new ideas they propose.
                      >
                      > Best,
                      >
                      > Patricia
                      >
                      > On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Jim Fidelholtz <fidelholtz@...>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > > Hi, All (Hola a todos),
                      > >
                      > > I'm very surprised that really no one seems to have mentioned the
                      > > phonological aspects in this discussion of borrowings vs. code switching.
                      > > The discussion has matured a bit since the topic was raised, oh, in the
                      > > 1990s, if memory serves, but many of the same points have been raised.
                      > >
                      > > Specifically, consider the English word Bach (the composer). Anyone
                      > > minimally 'culto' (American, which means pretty minimally ;-)> )
                      > pronounces
                      > > the name [bax] (NB: the [x] is virtually identical to the Mexican Spanish
                      > > <j>), and this is true whether or not they have the slightest knowledge
                      > of
                      > > German. Now, in earlier discussions, various persons maintained that this
                      > > was 'code-switching', but the facts presented in this paragraph indicate
                      > > that that position is an absurdity, since (1) not all who have that
                      > > pronunciation even know German and (2) German [x] is never the pure velar
                      > > like the Mexican voiceless velar fricative, but is either further back
                      > > (almost postvelar, as in [ba>x]) or almost palatal (prevelar, as in [i�]
                      > > <ich> 'I'), depending on the preceding vowel. In the same vein, I would
                      > > query how the putatively English word 'so' is pronounced in the example
                      > > given. If it is [sow], then there could be a decent case that it is a
                      > case
                      > > of code switching. BUT if it pronounced [so] as in the expression 'so
                      > pena
                      > > de �', then it is a bona fide borrowing into Spanish. I have no doubt
                      > that
                      > > there could be intermediate cases, as in the early stages of borrowing,
                      > as
                      > > well.
                      > >
                      > > Just a couple of thoughts on the subject.
                      > >
                      > > Jim
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > James L. Fidelholtz
                      > > Posgrado en Ciencias del Lenguaje
                      > > Instituto de Ciencias Sociales y Humanidades
                      > > Benem�rita Universidad Aut�noma de Puebla, M�XICO
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > To Post a message: code-switching @ yahoogroups.com
                      > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > > code-switching-unsubscribe @ yahoogroups.com
                      > > Web page: http//groups.yahoo.com/group/code-switchingYahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > To Post a message: code-switching @ yahoogroups.com
                      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > code-switching-unsubscribe @ yahoogroups.com
                      > Web page: http//groups.yahoo.com/group/code-switchingYahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      James L. Fidelholtz
                      Posgrado en Ciencias del Lenguaje
                      Instituto de Ciencias Sociales y Humanidades
                      Benem�rita Universidad Aut�noma de Puebla, M�XICO


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Patricia Torres
                      Thanks, Jim! The debate is becoming heated, as students find new concepts related to the topic (Leoni, thanks for metrolingualism !). They though the project
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 15, 2011
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                        Thanks, Jim!

                        The debate is becoming heated, as students find new concepts related to the
                        topic (Leoni, thanks for "metrolingualism"!). They though the project would
                        be easy! Somehow, like sorting cards...

                        Patricia



                        On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 11:44 PM, Jim Fidelholtz <fidelholtz@...>wrote:

                        > Hi, Patricia,
                        >
                        > Well, I think (in Spanish) that 'Chicago' (especially when pronounced
                        > [tshikaGo] a la español) IS a borrowing (from English). Interestingly, in
                        > English, it is pronounced [sh@kago], which (except for a nasal [a]) is
                        > virtually identical to the Miami pronunciation of the word meaning roughly
                        > 'skunk place' (other Algonquianists derive it from 'skunk cabbage' or other
                        > stuff; don't believe it!). Btw, the word 'skunk' is also derived from the
                        > same Algonquian root. In English, Chicago is almost never pronounced with
                        > [tsh] (a daughter of mine goes to school there--I'll ask her to be sure,
                        > but
                        > none of *my* buddies pronounce it that way). It's a bit more problematic to
                        > characterize the 'English' pronunciation of Chicago in the middle of a
                        > sentence otherwise in Spanish (as a code switch or as a borrowing) in the
                        > speech of a full bilingual. I can see reasons in some circumstances for
                        > going either way, depending on the cognitive state of the speaker.
                        >
                        > Jim
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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