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Re: Codeswitching in music

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  • Leoni Kotze
    Dear All I must also admit that Kelvin s topic is very exciting. I ve wanting to write about the similarities between music and language for ages. In fact, I
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 25, 2010
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      Dear All



      I must also admit that Kelvin's topic is very exciting. I've wanting to
      write about the similarities between music and language for ages. In fact,
      I delivered a student paper at the South African Linguistic Association's
      conference way back in 1998 on this during my second year at university. I
      am a classically trained musician and am als working on CS.



      I am writing down some of my ideas about language and music, and CS here
      below. These are ideas I've been playing around with in my head for years.
      I've done no research on this and my claims are therefore unsubstantiated.
      But I hope it opens up a new are of academic research, one which I have been
      jealously (and selfishly !!!) guarding for some time. Smiley here.



      I believe that each language has a unique rhythmic pattern and I am of the
      opinion that many of our word choices are (subconsciously) chosen because
      they fit the rhythmic pattern. For example: An Afrikaans word for 'chips'
      exists in the language, i.e. 'skyfies' with the word stress on SKY-fies.
      But very few Afrikaans speaking people use this word. The English word
      'chips' are used in the majority of cases. I believe (or let me rather say,
      suspect) that 'chips' is favoured above 'skyfies' because of its rhythmic
      pattern. There is a distinct rhythmic difference between saying in
      Afrikaans: 'fish and chips' (in actual speech pronounced 'fishenchips') and
      'vis en skyfies'.



      I also know, I dare to state this categorically, that word stress will take
      precedence over the stress dictated by western music. What I am trying to
      say here is: Western classical music has three main types of rhythmic
      patterns, either two, three of four defined 'beats'. The first beat is
      always the strongest beat. In the four beat rhythm, the third beat gets
      some stress, but less than the first beat. If I try to visually portray it
      here, it will look something like this:

      ONE two, ONE, two, ONE two (etc)

      ONE two three, ONE two three, ONE two three (etc)

      ONE two Three four, ONE two Three four, ONE two Three four, ONE two Three
      four (etc)



      What this means for the overlap between language and music, is that the word
      stress in a pollysyllabic word has to comply with the rhythmic pattern of
      the music. And the word stress takes precedence, as I've said. Things are
      getting rather technical at this point and further explanation will take too
      much space and time. Suffice it to say that there is an enormous overlap
      between musical aspects and prosodic features.



      OK, I am getting carried away. What does this have to do with CS? Simply
      this: It would be very interesting to see which words realize from/in which
      codes (languages) and how they fit the musical rhythmic pattern. It would
      also be interesting to see how the music might be adapted to accommodate
      prosodic features of the word and/or language in question.



      Phew! Was wonderful to talk about this. Kelvin, if you need a musician's
      input I would be more than willing to get involved in you study.



      I wish you all the best!



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • kelvin mambwe
        Hi Mark,   May I have your review on Peter Backhaus s book please. I will be grateful.   Kelvin ... From: mostari hind Subject: RE:
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 26, 2010
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        Hi Mark,
         
        May I have your review on Peter Backhaus's book please. I will be grateful.
         
        Kelvin

        --- On Wed, 2/24/10, mostari hind <hmostari@...> wrote:


        From: mostari hind <hmostari@...>
        Subject: RE: [code-switching] Re: Codeswitching in music
        To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 9:51 AM


         




        dear Dr,
        I will be pleased if you can send me your review on Peter Backhaus's book , to see  how to apply it on Algerian music.
         
        Thanks a lot
        Dr Mostari
         

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Celso Alvarez Cáccamo
        Hello! Interesting topic, and a lot of fun. Thank you, Leoni Kotze, for your remarks on rhytmic patterns and language alternation. Gumperz s own approach and
        Message 3 of 21 , Feb 26, 2010
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          Hello! Interesting topic, and a lot of fun.

          Thank you, Leoni Kotze, for your remarks on rhytmic patterns and language alternation. Gumperz's own approach and notation system was greatly influenced by a "musical" view of speech: tempo, loudness, pitch, stress, rhythm, decelerated, accelerated, staccato, etc.

          My own perception is that, yes, prosody probably plays a much greater role in language alternation than it has been explicitly examined. When the underlying prosodic pattern of the dominant language dictates the flow of speech, lexical items and other structures perhaps are unconsciously selected that fit this pattern, so that, for example, a representation of pitch extraction of a language-alternation segment probably would be undistinguishable from a monolingual sentence. This could be tested with relative ease with a program like Praatt (free, http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/ ), which extracts intonation from a segment and converts it to musical tones. The experiment could be to generate two fragments: one with language A-B alternations which would fit the dominant prosodic pattern of the community; the second fragment, a monolingual equivalent fragment. Intonation/Prosody is extracted from both, and the audio files are played back to members of the community, asking which one "sounds more" this-or-the-other. I haven't done it, I'm just suggesting it.

          As an anecdote, I myself have produced "trilingual" segments (Galiza Portuguese / English / Spanish) which sounded to me totally "Galizan" (my community), with no initial awareness whatsoever that I had produced them. A couple of them called my attention and I wrote them down, but probably I've produced many more. For example, a sentence in a two-beat, trochee foot, ' - ' - ' - ' , which is, incidentally, also used in Galizan popular music. When contrasted with "monolingual" versions of the same segment, none fitted the pattern. This is the example, which is funny. Capitals signal stress. The alternation is English / Spanish / Galiza Portuguese:

          YOU'RE neuRIta HOje, EH? ('you're being picky today, uh?)

          Popular songs in octosyllables present the same pattern:

          Uma NOIte NO moÍnho
          Uma NOIte NÃO é NAda
          Uma SEmaNInha_inTEIra
          Isso SIM que_é MOiNHAda

          'One night at the grain mill,
          just one night is nothing.
          A whole week --
          THAT's a good milling session!'

          (traditionally, grain milling had to be attended to overnight, so mills were also paradigmatic places for secret love encounters ;-) ).


          -celso
          Celso Alvarez Cáccamo
          lxalvarz@...


          A 2010/02/26, às 08:29, Leoni Kotze escreveu:

          > Dear All
          >
          > I must also admit that Kelvin's topic is very exciting. I've wanting to
          > write about the similarities between music and language for ages. In fact,
          > I delivered a student paper at the South African Linguistic Association's
          > conference way back in 1998 on this during my second year at university. I
          > am a classically trained musician and am als working on CS.
        • Sergio Pasquandrea
          Leoni s post is enormously interesting to me, since I, too, am a musician, and am currently interested in a strictly related topic (i.e., the relationship
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 26, 2010
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            Leoni's post is enormously interesting to me, since I, too, am a musician, and am currently interested in a strictly related topic (i.e., the relationship between music and literature, and in particular between jazz and poetry, mainly seen from a rhythmic point of view).
            An interesting remark that comes to my mind is that many Italian singers find it difficult to adapt Italian prosody to modern genres such as pop, rock or rap, and often employ English, or even Italian dialects. That may seem surprising, because Italian is usually considered a very "musical language", but it has much to do with Italian accent and syllable structure.
            To make a long story short, Italian strongly favours throcaic endings (such as MAre, SOle, anDAre, diCIAmo, etc.), and this can be a problem when musical phrases end on a strong beat. Moreover, Italian words are often quite long (2 or 3 syllables, or even more), and this may also be troublesome in music, especially in some styles.
            That's why Italian pop, or rock, and especially rap musicians sometimes use English, or dialects, or a mix of many languages.
            An example is Pino Daniele, a singer who was very popular in the 80's. He is from Naples, and is heavily influenced by blues, jazz, and black music in general. In his songs, he used a very peculiar mixing of Italian, English and Neapolitan dialect (and, in some cases, even Spanish).


            --- Ven 26/2/10, Leoni Kotze <leoni@...> ha scritto:

            Da: Leoni Kotze <leoni@...>
            Oggetto: [code-switching] Re: Codeswitching in music
            A: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
            Data: Venerdì 26 febbraio 2010, 08:29







             









            Dear All



            I must also admit that Kelvin's topic is very exciting. I've wanting to

            write about the similarities between music and language for ages. In fact,

            I delivered a student paper at the South African Linguistic Association' s

            conference way back in 1998 on this during my second year at university. I

            am a classically trained musician and am als working on CS.



            I am writing down some of my ideas about language and music, and CS here

            below. These are ideas I've been playing around with in my head for years.

            I've done no research on this and my claims are therefore unsubstantiated.

            But I hope it opens up a new are of academic research, one which I have been

            jealously (and selfishly !!!) guarding for some time. Smiley here.



            I believe that each language has a unique rhythmic pattern and I am of the

            opinion that many of our word choices are (subconsciously) chosen because

            they fit the rhythmic pattern. For example: An Afrikaans word for 'chips'

            exists in the language, i.e. 'skyfies' with the word stress on SKY-fies.

            But very few Afrikaans speaking people use this word. The English word

            'chips' are used in the majority of cases. I believe (or let me rather say,

            suspect) that 'chips' is favoured above 'skyfies' because of its rhythmic

            pattern. There is a distinct rhythmic difference between saying in

            Afrikaans: 'fish and chips' (in actual speech pronounced 'fishenchips' ) and

            'vis en skyfies'.



            I also know, I dare to state this categorically, that word stress will take

            precedence over the stress dictated by western music. What I am trying to

            say here is: Western classical music has three main types of rhythmic

            patterns, either two, three of four defined 'beats'. The first beat is

            always the strongest beat. In the four beat rhythm, the third beat gets

            some stress, but less than the first beat. If I try to visually portray it

            here, it will look something like this:



            ONE two, ONE, two, ONE two (etc)



            ONE two three, ONE two three, ONE two three (etc)



            ONE two Three four, ONE two Three four, ONE two Three four, ONE two Three

            four (etc)



            What this means for the overlap between language and music, is that the word

            stress in a pollysyllabic word has to comply with the rhythmic pattern of

            the music. And the word stress takes precedence, as I've said. Things are

            getting rather technical at this point and further explanation will take too

            much space and time. Suffice it to say that there is an enormous overlap

            between musical aspects and prosodic features.



            OK, I am getting carried away. What does this have to do with CS? Simply

            this: It would be very interesting to see which words realize from/in which

            codes (languages) and how they fit the musical rhythmic pattern. It would

            also be interesting to see how the music might be adapted to accommodate

            prosodic features of the word and/or language in question.



            Phew! Was wonderful to talk about this. Kelvin, if you need a musician's

            input I would be more than willing to get involved in you study.



            I wish you all the best!



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Georges Lüdi
            Do you know the article by Jablonka on code-switching in the raï-music? Georges
            Message 5 of 21 , Feb 26, 2010
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              Do you know the article by Jablonka on code-switching in the raï-music?

              Georges
            • Leoni Kotze
              Dear All Celco, what you are saying is just sooooo interesting. I am sitting here behind my computer and there are electrical impulses running up and down my
              Message 6 of 21 , Feb 26, 2010
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                Dear All



                Celco, what you are saying is just sooooo interesting. I am sitting here
                behind my computer and there are electrical impulses running up and down my
                spine. How wonderful to discover areas of under-researched (for lack of a
                better word at the moment) areas! I am inspired! Again. But let me not sit
                here and make idle talk, let me complete my current Master's so that I can
                go full force into the interface (can I call it 'interface'?) between
                language and music.



                Keep those comments rolling, everybody! Isn't is just wonderful to glean
                insights from so many people across the globe?



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Georges Lüdi
                Dear All, I don t have an electronic copy of Jablonka s article. But you ll find the reference, a summary in English, and the author s address at the following
                Message 7 of 21 , Feb 27, 2010
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                  Dear All,

                  I don't have an electronic copy of Jablonka's article. But you'll find the reference, a summary in English, and the author's address at the following URL:

                  http://www.uni-siegen.de/lili/ausgaben/2007/lili148.html?lang=de#artikel8

                  Georges
                • Celso Alvarez Cáccamo
                  Leoni Kontze, Well, good luck with your Master and your research, I m glad this thread is being encouraging to you. As for research in the area (language
                  Message 8 of 21 , Feb 28, 2010
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                    Leoni Kontze,

                    Well, good luck with your Master and your research, I'm glad this thread is being encouraging to you.

                    As for research in the area (language alternation and music), to be honest I don't know much about it. It is my impression that much remains to be said yet, but I am not up to developments in the field or specific bibliography. It is well known that languages present typical prosodic patterns in terms of accent patterns and length of intonational phrases. For example, apparently in Spanish eight-syllable phrases in daily speech are very common, and this would explain why also the octosyllable verse is typical of traditional, popular poetry. And let's remember that the first manifestations of poetry in many cultures are actually SONGS (work-related songs, while sawing or harvesting the fields, for example). So, there you have a relation between speech and music (see Jakobson's work).

                    A second factor to examine, perhaps, is Gumperz's important observation (I don't remember exactly where in Discourse Strategies), which I believe hasn't received enough attention in terms of its implications for language alternation, is that while grammar and lexicon can be taught and learned formally, through second-language instruction, intonation and prosody in general are SUBconscious, as they are acquired as part of the socialization process, and you can't just "teach" or talk about a prosodic pattern without a lexical-grammatical basis (you can't "repeat" an intonational curve except by singing it). So, while it is well known that this subconscious nature of prosody plays a major role in misunderstandings in a SECOND language (Gumperz's own work), I believe that often it has been understood that in language alternation phenomena all that happens is that people combine LEXICAL items and GRAMMATICAL structures as pieces that could fit, like a puzzle. But, obviously, pieces don't fit in a vacuum, but they have to fit over a given underlying prosodic pattern which also carries interactional (pragmatic) meaning(s) among a wide range: matter-of-factness, irony, humor, disbelief, challenge, compliance, formality, informality, interest, cooperation, surprise, etc. etc. And all of this (forms and meanings) is acquired since very early in life (babies only a few months old are able to distinguish between "boring" and interesting conversations between adults, even if they don't understand anything; and mother-talk, precisely, hypercharacterizes prosodic patterns to make them more enjoyable to babies).

                    Finally, there are recent discoveries in the origins of language that relate language ability more and more to musical abilities. It is not coincidental that the only two human species that had/have musical abilities, Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapiens Sapiens (us) also had/have the cognitive abilities and anatomical apparatus prepared for language (brain areas, central nervous system, the hyoid bone, etc., though it is not proven that Neanderthals had articulated language as we know it).

                    So, you have an interesting topic there (language alternation and musical patterns) which, in my opinion, would require to look a little into questions such as the ones above.

                    As for language alternation in today's music (Kelvin and others), my contribution is Manu Chao, a hip-hopish singer from Galizan origin based in France. Look him up, he's very good.

                    Cheers!

                    -celso
                    Celso Alvarez Cáccamo

                    A 2010/02/27, às 07:39, Leoni Kotze escreveu:

                    > Dear All
                    >
                    > Celco, what you are saying is just sooooo interesting. I am sitting here
                    > behind my computer and there are electrical impulses running up and down my
                    > spine. How wonderful to discover areas of under-researched (for lack of a
                    > better word at the moment) areas! I am inspired! Again. But let me not sit
                    > here and make idle talk, let me complete my current Master's so that I can
                    > go full force into the interface (can I call it 'interface'?) between
                    > language and music.
                    >
                    > Keep those comments rolling, everybody! Isn't is just wonderful to glean
                    > insights from so many people across the globe?
                  • mostari hind
                    dear all , Is there anybody who has a quantitative study about the number of tokens found for each item of insertion through the application of MLF model of
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 1, 2010
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                      dear all ,
                      Is there anybody who has a quantitative study about the number of tokens found for each item of insertion through the application of MLF model of Myers-Scotton, i.e. is there any study of language  pairs on MLF model which counted the number of insertions of different categories ( N, V ADJ, etc) found from ML to EL and vice versa .
                      I have counted the number of adjectives, nouns, adverbs, idioms etc in the case they are from the EL ( French ) inserted within  Algerian arabic as the ML ,and vice versa . it is important to have statistics in boh cases from ML to EL and vice versa .
                      i am looking forward to reading from you
                       
                      all the best
                      Dr Mostari
                      Algeria




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Maria Eugenia Trillo
                      Dr. Mostari, I used the MLF model by Myers-Scotton in the data analysis for my dissertation. It has not been published but you can find it filed through UMI
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 1, 2010
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                        Dr. Mostari,

                        I used the MLF model by Myers-Scotton in the data analysis for my dissertation. It has not been published but you can find it filed through UMI (University of Michigan). My study indicated that women used more descriptives (adj & adverbs) than the male subjects. The subjects who "played" more with their two languages (Spanish/English) had almost exactly the same number of verbs in each of their discourses, ie. 48 Spanish verbs v. 51 English verbs in a 30 minutes narrative.

                        is this what you are looking for?

                        --Maria Eugenia Trillo, Ph.D.
                        Associate Professor of Spanish
                        Western New Mexico University
                        Dept. of Humanities
                        Silver City, NM 88062

                         



                        ________________________________
                        From: mostari hind <hmostari@...>
                        To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 10:08:49 AM
                        Subject: [code-switching] about the MLF model

                         


                        dear all ,
                        Is there anybody who has a quantitative study about the number of tokens found for each item of insertion through the application of MLF model of Myers-Scotton, i.e. is there any study of language  pairs on MLF model which counted the number of insertions of different categories ( N, V ADJ, etc) found from ML to EL and vice versa .
                        I have counted the number of adjectives, nouns, adverbs, idioms etc in the case they are from the EL ( French ) inserted within  Algerian arabic as the ML ,and vice versa . it is important to have statistics in boh cases from ML to EL and vice versa .
                        i am looking forward to reading from you
                         
                        all the best
                        Dr Mostari
                        Algeria

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Sebba, Mark
                        For those who have requested it recently, my review of this book has just been published online in Writing Systems Research and you can access it from the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
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                          For those who have requested it recently, my review of this book has
                          just been published online in Writing Systems Research and you can
                          access it from the links below.
                          But please note that it is not about code-switching at all, I merely
                          mentioned it in response to a remark by Chad Nilep, who said that my
                          approach to mixed-language texts reminded him of the Linguistic
                          Landscapes approach.

                          Mark

                          Full Text:
                          http://writsy.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/wsp006?ijkey=LzsRDfzeY
                          vmRs6y&keytype=ref
                          PDF:
                          http://writsy.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/wsp006?ijkey=LzsRDfzeYvmRs6
                          y&keytype=ref

                          The full citation for the article is:
                          Linguistic Landscapes: A Comparative Study of Urban Multilingualism in
                          Tokyo Peter Backhaus.
                          Mark Sebba
                          Writing Systems Research 2010; doi: 10.1093/wsr/wsp006
                        • mostari hind
                          dear Dr Maria Eugenia Trillo , What i am looking is exactly how many adject, adv, verbs, nouns, idioms your respondents used from Spanish to english and vice
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 2, 2010
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                            dear Dr Maria Eugenia Trillo ,
                            What i am looking is exactly how many adject, adv, verbs, nouns, idioms your respondents used from Spanish to english and vice versa , under the MLF model .
                             
                            do you have this kind of data . I could not get access to your thesis . Give me the exact link or send it to me by attachmenet PLZ .
                             
                            All the best
                            Dr Mostari
                            Algeria

                            --- On Tue, 3/2/10, Maria Eugenia Trillo <metrillo2002@...> wrote:


                            From: Maria Eugenia Trillo <metrillo2002@...>
                            Subject: Re: [code-switching] about the MLF model
                            To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2010, 7:21 AM


                             



                            Dr. Mostari,

                            I used the MLF model by Myers-Scotton in the data analysis for my dissertation. It has not been published but you can find it filed through UMI (University of Michigan). My study indicated that women used more descriptives (adj & adverbs) than the male subjects. The subjects who "played" more with their two languages (Spanish/English) had almost exactly the same number of verbs in each of their discourses, ie. 48 Spanish verbs v. 51 English verbs in a 30 minutes narrative.

                            is this what you are looking for?

                            --Maria Eugenia Trillo, Ph.D.
                            Associate Professor of Spanish
                            Western New Mexico University
                            Dept. of Humanities
                            Silver City, NM 88062

                             

                            ____________ _________ _________ __
                            From: mostari hind <hmostari@yahoo. com>
                            To: code-switching@ yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 10:08:49 AM
                            Subject: [code-switching] about the MLF model

                             

                            dear all ,
                            Is there anybody who has a quantitative study about the number of tokens found for each item of insertion through the application of MLF model of Myers-Scotton, i.e. is there any study of language  pairs on MLF model which counted the number of insertions of different categories ( N, V ADJ, etc) found from ML to EL and vice versa .
                            I have counted the number of adjectives, nouns, adverbs, idioms etc in the case they are from the EL ( French ) inserted within  Algerian arabic as the ML ,and vice versa . it is important to have statistics in boh cases from ML to EL and vice versa .
                            i am looking forward to reading from you
                             
                            all the best
                            Dr Mostari
                            Algeria

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Maria Eugenia Trillo
                            Leoni, Celso et al, I agree with the exciting topic of prosodic elements used in code alternation and would like to share an anecdote. I wish I had had the
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 6, 2010
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                              Leoni, Celso et al,

                              I agree with the exciting topic of prosodic elements used in code alternation and would like to share an anecdote. I wish I had had the foresight to record my babies when they were in the babbling stage. Since their father was an English speaker and I spoke Spanish to them, both girls would "sing" their different languages--in--formation, depending on who their audience was. If they were addressing their father, their babbling would be slower and their tone and pitch would be a lower key. When addressing me or my mother, also a Spanish native speaker, the girls would speed up and elevate their tone. So in a sense, the babies were
                              "singing" a nascent English or Spanish.

                              The prosodic elements are a frustrating element for second-language learners and some heritage speakers of Spanish who can't 'hear' the correct pronunciation, they say. In fact, it is what celso is referring to, I believe, that frustrates the non-native speaker of a language.

                              Thank you for an interesting dialogue.

                              --Maria Eugenia Trillo,




                              ________________________________
                              From: Celso Alvarez Cáccamo <lxalvarz@...>
                              To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 8:59:48 AM
                              Subject: Re: [code-switching] Re: Codeswitching in music

                               
                              Leoni Kontze,

                              Well, good luck with your Master and your research, I'm glad this thread is being encouraging to you.

                              As for research in the area (language alternation and music), to be honest I don't know much about it. It is my impression that much remains to be said yet, but I am not up to developments in the field or specific bibliography. It is well known that languages present typical prosodic patterns in terms of accent patterns and length of intonational phrases. For example, apparently in Spanish eight-syllable phrases in daily speech are very common, and this would explain why also the octosyllable verse is typical of traditional, popular poetry. And let's remember that the first manifestations of poetry in many cultures are actually SONGS (work-related songs, while sawing or harvesting the fields, for example). So, there you have a relation between speech and music (see Jakobson's work).

                              A second factor to examine, perhaps, is Gumperz's important observation (I don't remember exactly where in Discourse Strategies), which I believe hasn't received enough attention in terms of its implications for language alternation, is that while grammar and lexicon can be taught and learned formally, through second-language instruction, intonation and prosody in general are SUBconscious, as they are acquired as part of the socialization process, and you can't just "teach" or talk about a prosodic pattern without a lexical-grammatical basis (you can't "repeat" an intonational curve except by singing it). So, while it is well known that this subconscious nature of prosody plays a major role in misunderstandings in a SECOND language (Gumperz's own work), I believe that often it has been understood that in language alternation phenomena all that happens is that people combine LEXICAL items and GRAMMATICAL structures as pieces that could fit, like a puzzle.
                              But, obviously, pieces don't fit in a vacuum, but they have to fit over a given underlying prosodic pattern which also carries interactional (pragmatic) meaning(s) among a wide range: matter-of-factness, irony, humor, disbelief, challenge, compliance, formality, informality, interest, cooperation, surprise, etc. etc. And all of this (forms and meanings) is acquired since very early in life (babies only a few months old are able to distinguish between "boring" and interesting conversations between adults, even if they don't understand anything; and mother-talk, precisely, hypercharacterizes prosodic patterns to make them more enjoyable to babies).

                              Finally, there are recent discoveries in the origins of language that relate language ability more and more to musical abilities. It is not coincidental that the only two human species that had/have musical abilities, Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapiens Sapiens (us) also had/have the cognitive abilities and anatomical apparatus prepared for language (brain areas, central nervous system, the hyoid bone, etc., though it is not proven that Neanderthals had articulated language as we know it).

                              So, you have an interesting topic there (language alternation and musical patterns) which, in my opinion, would require to look a little into questions such as the ones above.

                              As for language alternation in today's music (Kelvin and others), my contribution is Manu Chao, a hip-hopish singer from Galizan origin based in France. Look him up, he's very good.

                              Cheers!

                              -celso
                              Celso Alvarez Cáccamo

                              A 2010/02/27, às 07:39, Leoni Kotze escreveu:

                              > Dear All
                              >
                              > Celco, what you are saying is just sooooo interesting. I am sitting here
                              > behind my computer and there are electrical impulses running up and down my
                              > spine. How wonderful to discover areas of under-researched (for lack of a
                              > better word at the moment) areas! I am inspired! Again. But let me not sit
                              > here and make idle talk, let me complete my current Master's so that I can
                              > go full force into the interface (can I call it 'interface'? ) between
                              > language and music.
                              >
                              > Keep those comments rolling, everybody! Isn't is just wonderful to glean
                              > insights from so many people across the globe?







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