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Re: [code-switching] determination of codeswitched and borrowed items

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  • James L. Fidelholtz
    Hi, Salman, In an attempt to show you *why* the debate continues, let me return to one of my favorite examples in borrowing: Bach as used (pronounced) in
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 23, 2009
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      Hi, Salman,

      In an attempt to show you *why* the debate continues, let me return to one
      of my favorite examples in borrowing: 'Bach' as used (pronounced) in
      English. I and many other speakers pronounce the composer's name [in
      English] as [ba:x]. I imagine that the majority of (at least American)
      speakers would pronounce the name as [ba:k]. Let me, however, quote you one
      of my favorite limericks (alas, a 'clean' one):

      There once was a fellow named Hatch
      Who was fond of the music of Bach.
      He said, "It's not fussy
      like Brahms or Debussy;
      Sit down and I'll play you a snatch."
      [note: [braemz]]

      Now *that's* anglicization! That is, nobody would consider the names as
      pronounced in this limerick as anything but utterly assimilated to English
      phonology and therefore incorporated into the English lexicon. I have argued
      in this forum, on the other hand, that even people like me who pronounce the
      composer's name as [ba:x] are *not* using code-switching. [NB: not all such
      people know any German!] It might be argued that we are slightly more
      'cultured' (in the 'snotty' sense of the word), but anybody who accuses me
      of code-switching between English and German has obviously never conversed
      (or tried to converse) with me in German!

      From my point of view, the real problem with Poplack's attempted
      'definition' (really, a separation into two classes), as theoretically
      appealing as it may be (and perhaps in any case a useful sort of distinction
      on which to base the discussion), ignores the clear fact that (even
      phonological) assimilation to a language is not black & white: there are
      degrees. Even in my example, we have several degrees of assimilation. I
      didn't even mention the real German pronunciation, which only a native
      German speaker would use in English, where it *might* then be a case of
      code-switching (this would need to be a decision for Pragmatics to make, and
      not an easy one at that). That pronunciation would be with a more retracted
      velar fricative: [ba::>x]. My sort of pronunciation is one step along the
      cline towards anglicization: [ba:x]. (Even for me, this pronunciation is
      *not* how I would pronounce the name if I were trying to pronounce it *in*
      German.) Further along this cline is the 'normal' 'English' pronunciation
      [ba:k]. Perhaps a further intermediate stage might be [baek], though I can't
      say I have ever heard this pronunciation. Finally (perhaps), the limerick
      pronunciation: [baech] (same as <batch>). As I have indicated, I don't find
      any convenient place along this cline (even including the 'native' German
      pronunciation) to place a division between C-S and 'borrowing'. That is, for
      some German speakers using the German pronunciation in trying to speak
      English, this would *not* be code-switching, but rather an L1-L2
      interference in their attempts to speak English, but still totally 'English'
      (just not precisely the same English code used by native speakers of that
      language). For others, some monolingual native speakers of English, using
      [ba:x], a more nativized version (or even using [ba:k*]) *could* be an
      example of code-switching, conceptually.

      I hope this has indicated the complexities of this problem to some extent.
      There simply is no cookbook solution to when something is code-switching and
      when it is borrowing. The problem is further complicated by the fact that
      borrowing obviously starts with bilingual (or incipiently bilingual)
      speakers, usually. Another factor is the fact that large groups of words
      'bulk-borrowed' into a language from another one may retain certain sorts of
      non-native characteristics at least for centuries, if not indefinitely. An
      example of this is word-final stress on borrowings into English, quite rare
      (or at least unusual) in the 'native', Anglo-Saxon vocabulary of English.
      (This due to the influx of French and other Romance borrowings over the last
      millennium.) Another example is the connecting -o- morpheme which
      distinguishes 'Greek' borrowings (formal ones) into English, also over
      nearly a millennium, via academic Latin. But, 'non-native' though they may
      be, these examples are definitively *not* code-switching, unless you want to
      consider switching, say, to a more formal style a kind of code-switching. I
      would find that an abuse of the term C-S. It *was*, perhaps (a millennium
      ago), a sort of code-switching, but no longer can be reasonably considered
      as such.

      Jim



      On 2/23/09, salman riaz <salman.riaz@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi all,
      >
      > it has been a long-standing issue as to how to determine whether a loan
      > item is a codeswitched or a borrowed item. over time, several opinions have
      > surfaced, one of the most influential being Shana Poplack's approach, which
      > states that if a loan item is morpho-syntactically and phonologically
      > integrated into recipient language it should be considered an instance of
      > borrowing, whereas one that does not that of codeswitching. i wonder whether
      > some of you would kindly explain to me the idea of morpho-syntactic
      > integration. examples from English or Urdu would be of immense help.
      >
      > regards,
      >
      > Muhammad Salman Riaz
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >



      --
      James L. Fidelholtz
      Posgrado en Ciencias del Lenguaje
      Instituto de Ciencias Sociales y Humanidades
      Benemérita Universidad Autónoma de Puebla, MÉXICO


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Zoubir Dendane
      Salaam Muhammad, I ve just read your message and an example of borrowing (I think) crossed my mind: In Canadian French, they say Je vais crosser la rue ;
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 26, 2009
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        Salaam Muhammad,
        I've just read your message and an example of borrowing (I think) crossed my mind:
        In Canadian French, they say 'Je vais crosser la rue'; this is a morohologically adapted borrowing as the verb 'to cross' is used with the French {- er} suffix morpheme for the infinitive, instrad of the French verb traverser. (Meaning: I'm going to cross the street). Here in Algeria Aeabic, we have a great number of borrowings of all types.
        Hopr this will help. Good luck.
        Zoubir    

        --- On Mon, 2/23/09, salman riaz <salman.riaz@...> wrote:

        From: salman riaz <salman.riaz@...>
        Subject: [code-switching] determination of codeswitched and borrowed items
        To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 12:52 PM






        Hi all,

        it has been a long-standing issue as to how to determine whether a loan item is a codeswitched or a borrowed item. over time, several opinions have surfaced, one of the most influential being Shana Poplack's approach, which states that if a loan item is morpho-syntacticall y and phonologically integrated into recipient language it should be considered an instance of borrowing, whereas one that does not that of codeswitching. i wonder whether some of you would kindly explain to me the idea of morpho-syntactic integration. examples from English or Urdu would be of immense help.

        regards,

        Muhammad Salman Riaz

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • adriana
        Hi Muhammad, I ve just read your message. Sadly, I cannot help you with Urdu, but I happen to have studied English borrowings into Italian and Brazilian
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 26, 2009
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          Hi Muhammad,
          I've just read your message. Sadly, I cannot help you with Urdu, but I
          happen to have studied English borrowings into Italian and Brazilian
          Portuguese. When Shana Poplack talks about morpho-syntactic integration of
          the borrowing, she means that the borrowing acquired and incorporated some
          characteristics of the borrowing language.

          The example Zoubir's already given you is perfect. Just for the sake of it,
          I will offer two more. Let's take the verb "to click" and the noun "click",
          which have been borrowed by both Italian and Brazilian Portuguese.

          In Italian you can easily find the verb "cliccare", as in "clicca qui"
          (click here), where the English borrowing has been morphologically modified
          by adding the suffix -are and transforming the "ck" (a consonantal chunk
          that does not exist in the Italian language) into "cc" (which actually
          reflects an orthographic modification). However, in Italian we can also say
          "fai click qui" (which also means "click here"). In this case you can see
          that the borrowing has not been morphologically (or even orthographically)
          modified.

          In Portuguese, the verb "to click" has been borrowed and morphologically
          modified into "clicar" by adding the suffix -ar. The noun "click" has also
          been orthographically modified in order to follow the Brazilian Portuguese
          rules for orthographic-phonological correspondence, and it was transformed
          into "clique" /'kliki/.

          As far as this goes, I can understand and agree with Poplack in that these
          morphologically modified borrowings have actually very little to do with the
          source language (English in my examples) and are practically completely
          assimilated by the borrowing language.

          Now, when we analyze the phonetic/phonological aspects, things start to get
          confused and tricky. Ideally, different languages use the phonetic space in
          different ways (CANEPARI, Luciano. Introduzione alla fonetica. Torino:
          Einaudi, 1979) so that speakers of different languages will pronounce "the
          same phoneme" in different ways. This alone already proves that all
          borrowings are phonetically and even phonologically modified when they are
          pronounced by speakers of the borrowing language.

          From this point of view, I think it is kind of difficult to apply Poplack's
          definition of borrowing vs. code-switching.

          Personally, i think that in order to really understand the difference
          between borrowings and code-switching we need first to focus on those words
          (from English, for example) that have not been morpho-syntactically or
          orthographically modified. Then, we need a reliable and comprehensive corpus
          to check their occurrence in the borrowing language (ie. Urdu, Italian,
          Portuguese). If their occurrence is high, then chances are it is a case of
          borrowing. If their occurrence is low, on the other hand, chances are it is
          a case of code-switching.

          I hope I didn`t annoy you with all this amount of writing, I just got
          carried on...

          I would love to hear more about your research because I myself intend to
          continue studying loan-words and code-switching.

          Thank you and good luck



          --
          adriana mendes
          adry84@...
          http://adrymendes.blogspot.com/


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mostari hind
          hi Muhamed , of course Poplack s work on Nonce borrowing vs borrowing is of great interest and the most agreed among linguists ; when a word is neither
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 26, 2009
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            hi Muhamed ,
            of course Poplack's work on Nonce borrowing vs borrowing is of great interest and the most
            agreed among linguists ; when a word is neither phonologically or morphologically integrated , it is regarded as CS not borrowing , but here again , it depends on its frequency
            some linguists classify a non integrated word as borrowing if  it occurs frequently  in the recipient language .
            From French/English : we have : il presente one man show : ( He presents a one man show) here one man show is frequently used in the french speech , it is a borrowed expression , also , it is phonologically integrated in the french language since it is pronounced with a french accent .
             
             
            hope it helps
            best regards
            Mostari
            --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Zoubir Dendane <zdendane@...> wrote:

            From: Zoubir Dendane <zdendane@...>
            Subject: Re: [code-switching] determination of codeswitched and borrowed items
            To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 8:26 PM






            Salaam Muhammad,
            I've just read your message and an example of borrowing (I think) crossed my mind:
            In Canadian French, they say 'Je vais crosser la rue'; this is a morohologically adapted borrowing as the verb 'to cross' is used with the French {- er} suffix morpheme for the infinitive, instrad of the French verb traverser. (Meaning: I'm going to cross the street). Here in Algeria Aeabic, we have a great number of borrowings of all types.
            Hopr this will help. Good luck.
            Zoubir    

            --- On Mon, 2/23/09, salman riaz <salman.riaz@ yahoo.com> wrote:

            From: salman riaz <salman.riaz@ yahoo.com>
            Subject: [code-switching] determination of codeswitched and borrowed items
            To: code-switching@ yahoogroups. com
            Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 12:52 PM

            Hi all,

            it has been a long-standing issue as to how to determine whether a loan item is a codeswitched or a borrowed item. over time, several opinions have surfaced, one of the most influential being Shana Poplack's approach, which states that if a loan item is morpho-syntacticall y and phonologically integrated into recipient language it should be considered an instance of borrowing, whereas one that does not that of codeswitching. i wonder whether some of you would kindly explain to me the idea of morpho-syntactic integration. examples from English or Urdu would be of immense help.

            regards,

            Muhammad Salman Riaz

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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          • salman riaz
            Hi Mostari,Zoubir and Jim,   Thank you so much for your help, for which I am highly indebted to you all. Undoubtedly, Poplack s ‘purely linguistic’
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 27, 2009
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              Hi Mostari,Zoubir and Jim,
               
              Thank you so much for your help, for which I am highly indebted to you all. Undoubtedly, Poplack's ‘purely linguistic’ approach is illuminating. However, the deeper I delve into it the graver the matter appears. The yardstick of phonological integration is especially problematic, rather unconvincing. And as for morphological integration, we know that only a few loan items receive morphological integration. But what of the huge bulk of those items which do not undergo morphological modification – most of which are treated as instances of borrowing, rather than codeswitching, in bilingual literature?
               
              Let’s turn to another point. In Poplack’s approach, there are three levels of integration that a loan item must pass to be considered a case of borrowing: phonological, morphological, and syntactic. I fail to understand what syntactic integration refers to. Is it something related to a loan item’s falling in a different word-order in the recipient language? If this is so, every loan item finding its way in a varying word-order must be considered a case of borrowing. Please let me know if I am wrong.
              Regards,
              Muhammad Salman Riaz
              salman.riaz@...



              ________________________________
              From: mostari hind <hmostari@...>
              To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 4:46:50 AM
              Subject: Re: [code-switching] determination of codeswitched and borrowed items



              hi Muhamed ,
              of course Poplack's work on Nonce borrowing vs borrowing is of great interest and the most
              agreed among linguists ; when a word is neither phonologically or morphologically integrated , it is regarded as CS not borrowing , but here again , it depends on its frequency
              some linguists classify a non integrated word as borrowing if  it occurs frequently  in the recipient language .
              From French/English : we have : il presente one man show : ( He presents a one man show) here one man show is frequently used in the french speech , it is a borrowed expression , also , it is phonologically integrated in the french language since it is pronounced with a french accent .
               
               
              hope it helps
              best regards
              Mostari
              --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Zoubir Dendane <zdendane@yahoo. com> wrote:

              From: Zoubir Dendane <zdendane@yahoo. com>
              Subject: Re: [code-switching] determination of codeswitched and borrowed items
              To: code-switching@ yahoogroups. com
              Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 8:26 PM

              Salaam Muhammad,
              I've just read your message and an example of borrowing (I think) crossed my mind:
              In Canadian French, they say 'Je vais crosser la rue'; this is a morohologically adapted borrowing as the verb 'to cross' is used with the French {- er} suffix morpheme for the infinitive, instrad of the French verb traverser. (Meaning: I'm going to cross the street). Here in Algeria Aeabic, we have a great number of borrowings of all types.
              Hopr this will help. Good luck.
              Zoubir    

              --- On Mon, 2/23/09, salman riaz <salman.riaz@ yahoo.com> wrote:

              From: salman riaz <salman.riaz@ yahoo.com>
              Subject: [code-switching] determination of codeswitched and borrowed items
              To: code-switching@ yahoogroups. com
              Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 12:52 PM

              Hi all,

              it has been a long-standing issue as to how to determine whether a loan item is a codeswitched or a borrowed item. over time, several opinions have surfaced, one of the most influential being Shana Poplack's approach, which states that if a loan item is morpho-syntacticall y and phonologically integrated into recipient language it should be considered an instance of borrowing, whereas one that does not that of codeswitching. i wonder whether some of you would kindly explain to me the idea of morpho-syntactic integration. examples from English or Urdu would be of immense help.

              regards,

              Muhammad Salman Riaz

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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            • mostari hind
              hi salman  , But what of the huge bulk of those items which do not undergo morphological modification – most of which are treated as instances of borrowing,
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 13, 2009
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                hi salman  ,
                But what of the huge bulk of those items which do not undergo morphological modification – most of which are treated as instances of borrowing, rather than codeswitching, in bilingual literature?

                The answer is the freqeuncy criterion : if the item is repeatedly used by the recipient speech community , so generally , it is a loan word .
                if it is aoccaionally  used ; here it is considered as CS
                I focus -word- not expression or long streches of words , which are considered as cases of
                inter or intra sentential CS .
                 
                - for your second question : syntactic intergration means that the word order changes
                for example if the word belongs to Fr where the order is : SVO
                and is adapted syntactically to another language where the order let's  say OVS ( for instance ) here , there is a synatctic intergration , but the word need not to be ' morphologicaly and synatctically and phonologically adapted , to call it loan word ,  if it is only phonologically and/or morphologically and/or syntactically intergrated , so, it is a loan word .
                But here again, there are # approaches and criteria for these terminologies , so you have to adopt one , to be precise .
                 
                best regards
                hope it helps
                Mostari
                ALGERIA

                --- On Sat, 2/28/09, salman riaz <salman.riaz@...> wrote:





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