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Re: [code-switching] Re:inter-language and mixed code

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  • soodeh bordbar
    Hi Can u make distinction between Code-mixing and Code-switching? In my idea u should revise ur definition on mixed-code. Leoni Kotz�
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 7, 2008
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      Hi

      Can u make distinction between Code-mixing and Code-switching?
      In my idea u should revise ur definition on mixed-code.



      Leoni Kotz� <leoni@...> wrote:
      I understand it like this:

      Mixed code: lexical items of two or more languages are used within one
      sentence (intra-sentencially) or across sentences (inter-sentencially).

      Interlanguae: term used to describe various stages in second language
      learners� acquisition of target language. Learners achieve different levels
      of proficiency of the target language, moving towards �correct� grammar of
      target language.

      Hope I am right, and hope it is of help.

      Regards

      Leoni

      No virus found in this outgoing message.
      Checked by AVG.
      Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1486 - Release Date: 05/06/2008
      18:29


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    • rina marnita
      ... From: James L. Fidelholtz To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 6, 2008 5:47:27 AM Subject: Re: [code-switching]
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 8, 2008
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        ----- Original Message ----
        From: James L. Fidelholtz <fidelholtz@...>
        To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, June 6, 2008 5:47:27 AM
        Subject: Re: [code-switching] inter-language and mixed code


         
        Thank you for your quite thorough explanian. It very helful for me as lecturer in sociolinguistics but now also a student. 

         I've got the same impression for the use of the term 'code-switching'.  When I was an undergraduate student, it was very easy for me to differenciate code-mixing from code-switching since the criterias for each are explained by my lecturer in a very simple way  with very simple examples. But now, when I am  a Phd Student, I often find quite confusing uses of the two terms    I have just read an article in the Journal of Language in Society (published in 1990s). Let me quote  a sentence from the articel  : "this analysis adopts a general definition of code -switching  as an alternation of two languages  within the same discourse, sentence, or constituent.  Since the study aims at analysing the morpho-syntax of bilingual utterances, it focuses on examples of intrasentential code-switching' . If I refer to Peter Muskyen's explanation, it seems to me the writer uses a wrong term to what he intents to study. Am I correct?
        I also get the same impression when reading many discussion on this mailing-list. The name of the mailing list is  code-switching@yahoogroup but often what people discuss here is what I understand as code-mixing.
        Thank you,
         Rina

         
         

        On 5/29/08, Kanthimathi K <kanthi@iitm. ac.in> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Dear Friends
        >
        > Can anyone please clarify the difference between inter-language and mixed
        > code.
        >
        > --K. Kanthimathi
        > Research Scholar
        > Dept. of Humanities and Social Sciences
        > Indian Institute of Technology, Madras
        > Chennai-600036
        > India
        >
        >
        >

        --
        James L. Fidelholtz
        Posgrado en Ciencias del Lenguaje
        Instituto de Ciencias Sociales y
        Humanidades
        Benemérita Universidad Autónoma de
        Puebla, MÉXICO

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • samsoki
        Hi all, Je pense pour ma que l on doit certainement revoir les choses. La littérature mentionne que la différence entre alternance de codes et mélange de
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 9, 2008
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          Hi all,
          Je pense pour ma que l'on doit certainement revoir les choses. La
          littérature mentionne que la différence entre alternance de codes et
          mélange de codes réside au fait que le mélange se fait à l'intérieur
          de l'énoncé dans le syntagme par exemple tandis que l'alternance se
          fait entre phrase. Mais l'on parle aussi d'alternance intraphrase ce
          qui s'apparente avec la définition du mélange de langue. L'on sait
          aussi que le terme mélange de langue s'applique aussi au pidgin, au
          créole, ... Pourquoi ne pas réserver ce terme à ce genre de parler?
          Il y a de plu en plus dans la littérature les auteurs qui emploient
          comme terme couverture l'alternance de codes avec ses différents
          types. Qui mettra de l'ordre dans cette affaire?
          Sébastien Kitengye Sokoni - samsoki
          Doctorant à l'Université de Kinshasa
          Faculté des Lettres et Sciences Humaines
          >
          >
          >
          >
          --- In code-switching@yahoogroups.com, soodeh bordbar
          <bluesky7257@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi
          >
          > Can u make distinction between Code-mixing and Code-switching?
          > In my idea u should revise ur definition on mixed-code.
          >
          >
          >
          > Leoni Kotz� <leoni@...> wrote:
          > I understand it like this:
          >
          > Mixed code: lexical items of two or more languages are used within
          one
          > sentence (intra-sentencially) or across sentences (inter-
          sentencially).
          >
          > Interlanguae: term used to describe various stages in second
          language
          > learners� acquisition of target language. Learners achieve
          different levels
          > of proficiency of the target language, moving towards
          �correct� grammar of
          > target language.
          >
          > Hope I am right, and hope it is of help.
          >
          > Regards
          >
          > Leoni
          >
          > No virus found in this outgoing message.
          > Checked by AVG.
          > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1486 - Release Date:
          05/06/2008
          > 18:29
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Celso Alvarez Cáccamo
          Sébastien, Qui mettra de l ordre dans cette affaire? The order is there already. The order is in the real data of speech. But perhaps it s not the type of
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 9, 2008
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            Sébastien,

            "Qui mettra de l'ordre dans cette affaire?"

            The order is there already. The order is in the real data of speech. But
            perhaps it's not the type of order that most code-switching scholars think
            there is. I suggest we start instead from integrated linguistic and
            communicative competence as the default order of speech, not from
            pre-assumptions about different grammatical systems. Then, let's relate
            speech signals to aspects of context (the mental construction of context,
            of course). And, finally, let's try to see whether and how different
            communicative (pragmatic, in a broad sense) codes organize these signals in
            relation to context(s). If/When they do, we may have found CODE-switching.
            If/When they don't, we may have found trivial alternations of speech
            varieties, such as cette construction-ci which perhaps does not encode
            quelque chose d'importante apart from the funny fact that des structures
            linguistiques peuvent être combined (I'm not a native English-French mixer).

            A language may be viewed as a "semantic code", fine. We still don't know
            how this "encoding" works, but fine. But it turns out that once
            code-switching became code-switching in the literature, it was always
            conceived of as a *pragmatic* phenomenon. Therefore, it is pragmatic
            contents that are encoded (somehow). Therefore bis, we have to look at
            context, not at grammatical constraints. The fact that grammatical
            co-occurence constraints exist for language combinations may be as trivial
            as the fact that one cannot leave certain constructions incomplete, such as
            *This house is made out of.

            So, one should not distinguish "insertions" from "code-mixing" from
            "code-switching" on the basis of the length of the language alternation. It
            may be the case that a single lexical insertion DOES encode something
            pragmatically meaningful. And, conversely, it may be the case that a long
            stretch of alternating speech varieties does NOT encode anything
            pragmatically salient. So? Should we focus on saliency, or on surface
            linguistic form?

            In summary, if one were to understand what code-switching is, one ought to:

            1) Make sure one knows what a "code" is. What are the properties of a
            code? What does a code do? Where? In discourse? In one's head? Are all
            codes the same? Etc.
            2) Decide whether one should call a language a "code".
            3.1) If yes, proceed to
            3.1.1) understand what "switching" is, and to
            3.1.2) decide whether "switching" and "mixing" languages are different
            procedures for combining languages. Why? On what basis?
            (Hint: Since for this view language IS the code, inter-sentential
            alternations should NOT be "switches", as there would be neither
            grammatical constraints nor matrix-languages nor triggers within each
            sentence, which is the highest-level structure possible generated by a
            language. Therefore, if language is the code, the only possible switching
            occurs internally, intrasententially: in "code-mixing". Strange. This is
            called The Mixing-Switching Paradox).
            3.2) If one should NOT call a language the code, then decide what IS the
            code in communication, and then
            3.2.1) try to understand what "switching codes" is, just as early scholars
            understood it.
            (Hint: If the code is not semantic, but pragmatic, then switching always
            occurs intra-discursively, regardless of structural level. Therefore,
            "code-mixing" doesn't exist. It never did. It's either code-switching, or
            nothing, like in the good old times).

            Oh, interlanguage: To my knowledge, an interlanguage is, as pointed out, an
            "approximative system" (Selinker?, Richards?) between the source language
            and the target language in L2-learning, particularly in formal
            learning. It's a very specific phenomenon, which points again to one's
            integrated competence. But I don't think it can be called "mixing" from the
            3.1 view above, as the two supposed language-codes do not exist yet in the
            speaker's mind (precisely, the learner is creating the second one: how can
            you "mix" one code and half a code?). Uses of interlanguage might be
            code-switching from the 3.2 view above, but not by virtue of their being
            interlanguage (communicative competence barely knows what a language is).

            Coda: In stable "mixed language" (="mixed code", for 3.1 proponents)
            settings (creoles), same problem arises: how can you mix fragments of
            codes? Logically, it should be called semi-code mixing! Anyone ready for
            a new term? No, I think it's better not to call it mixing or mixed
            language, but simply language. Whether or not speakers then code-switch
            (view 3.2 above) is another issue.

            Best,
            -celso
            Celso Alvarez Cáccamo


            At 08:49 09-06-2008 +0000, you wrote:
            >Hi all,
            >Je pense pour ma que l'on doit certainement revoir les choses. La
            >littérature mentionne que la différence entre alternance de codes et
            >mélange de codes réside au fait que le mélange se fait à l'intérieur
            >de l'énoncé dans le syntagme par exemple tandis que l'alternance se
            >fait entre phrase. Mais l'on parle aussi d'alternance intraphrase ce
            >qui s'apparente avec la définition du mélange de langue. L'on sait
            >aussi que le terme mélange de langue s'applique aussi au pidgin, au
            >créole, ... Pourquoi ne pas réserver ce terme à ce genre de parler?
            >Il y a de plu en plus dans la littérature les auteurs qui emploient
            >comme terme couverture l'alternance de codes avec ses différents
            >types. Qui mettra de l'ordre dans cette affaire?
            >Sébastien Kitengye Sokoni - samsoki
            >Doctorant à l'Université de Kinshasa
            >Faculté des Lettres et Sciences Humaines


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • James L. Fidelholtz
            Hi, Samsoki et al., Well, it seems to me that there are situations which don t quite fit the theoretical definitions of terms, ie, at least I don t have a clue
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 9, 2008
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              Hi, Samsoki et al.,

              Well, it seems to me that there are situations which don't quite fit the
              theoretical definitions of terms, ie, at least I don't have a clue what to
              call them. I have mentioned this case here before, but I'll repeat it: once,
              when I was driving in very southern Texas, a very excited man rushed into a
              store I had stopped at, carrying his son. He had just come from the
              emergency room of the local hospital, where they had set his son's broken
              leg. I didn't have a recorder or anything, but this was after having lived
              in Mexico for over 15 years. My *very* strong impression was that the man
              was alternating between English and Spanish at *every single word*, and I
              think the young women he was chatting with were doing the same thing in
              their responses. (This was close to 15 years ago, in Del Río, TX.) This
              situation was very striking to me, because it flew in the face of any
              definitions of CS that I had ever heard, or any CS that I had ever
              experienced (including my own) before that in central Mexico, where we live.
              In fact, it almost seemed *too* regular an alternation (though not
              respecting syntactic structure, seemingly, at all) to be called 'code
              mixing' or 'language mixing' (the latter an apparently unused term among
              linguists, probably for good reasons, although it is frequently found in
              'lay' discussions).

              Jim


              On 6/9/08, samsoki <samsoki@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi all,
              > Je pense pour ma que l'on doit certainement revoir les choses. La
              > littérature mentionne que la différence entre alternance de codes et
              > mélange de codes réside au fait que le mélange se fait à l'intérieur
              > de l'énoncé dans le syntagme par exemple tandis que l'alternance se
              > fait entre phrase. Mais l'on parle aussi d'alternance intraphrase ce
              > qui s'apparente avec la définition du mélange de langue. L'on sait
              > aussi que le terme mélange de langue s'applique aussi au pidgin, au
              > créole, ... Pourquoi ne pas réserver ce terme à ce genre de parler?
              > Il y a de plu en plus dans la littérature les auteurs qui emploient
              > comme terme couverture l'alternance de codes avec ses différents
              > types. Qui mettra de l'ordre dans cette affaire?
              > Sébastien Kitengye Sokoni - samsoki
              > Doctorant à l'Université de Kinshasa
              > Faculté des Lettres et Sciences Humaines
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > --- In code-switching@yahoogroups.com <code-switching%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > soodeh bordbar
              > <bluesky7257@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi
              > >
              > > Can u make distinction between Code-mixing and Code-switching?
              > > In my idea u should revise ur definition on mixed-code.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Leoni Kotz� <leoni@...> wrote:
              > > I understand it like this:
              > >
              > > Mixed code: lexical items of two or more languages are used within
              > one
              > > sentence (intra-sentencially) or across sentences (inter-
              > sentencially).
              > >
              > > Interlanguae: term used to describe various stages in second
              > language
              > > learners� acquisition of target language. Learners achieve
              > different levels
              > > of proficiency of the target language, moving towards
              > �correct� grammar of
              > > target language.
              > >
              > > Hope I am right, and hope it is of help.
              > >
              > > Regards
              > >
              > > Leoni
              > >
              > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
              > > Checked by AVG.
              > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1486 - Release Date:
              > 05/06/2008
              > > 18:29
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >



              --
              James L. Fidelholtz
              Posgrado en Ciencias del Lenguaje
              Instituto de Ciencias Sociales y
              Humanidades
              Benemérita Universidad Autónoma de
              Puebla, MÉXICO


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • James L. Fidelholtz
              Sorry, all, I sent the previous response before getting to Celso s reply. One thing I should have mentioned about English-Spanish or English-French CS is that
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 9, 2008
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                Sorry, all, I sent the previous response before getting to Celso's reply.
                One thing I should have mentioned about English-Spanish or English-French CS
                is that the case I described is at all possible just because the superficial
                structures of English, on the one hand, and French or Spanish, on the other
                hand, are very similar; indeed, enough so that such every-other-word CS is
                feasible without driving your interlocutors totally nuts. In pairs of
                languages without such similar surface structures it might be much harder to
                have such a situation.

                Jim


                On 6/9/08, James L. Fidelholtz <fidelholtz@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi, Samsoki et al.,
                >
                > Well, it seems to me that there are situations which don't quite fit the
                > theoretical definitions of terms, ie, at least I don't have a clue what to
                > call them. I have mentioned this case here before, but I'll repeat it: once,
                > when I was driving in very southern Texas, a very excited man rushed into a
                > store I had stopped at, carrying his son. He had just come from the
                > emergency room of the local hospital, where they had set his son's broken
                > leg. I didn't have a recorder or anything, but this was after having lived
                > in Mexico for over 15 years. My *very* strong impression was that the man
                > was alternating between English and Spanish at *every single word*, and I
                > think the young women he was chatting with were doing the same thing in
                > their responses. (This was close to 15 years ago, in Del Río, TX.) This
                > situation was very striking to me, because it flew in the face of any
                > definitions of CS that I had ever heard, or any CS that I had ever
                > experienced (including my own) before that in central Mexico, where we live.
                > In fact, it almost seemed *too* regular an alternation (though not
                > respecting syntactic structure, seemingly, at all) to be called 'code
                > mixing' or 'language mixing' (the latter an apparently unused term among
                > linguists, probably for good reasons, although it is frequently found in
                > 'lay' discussions).
                >
                > Jim
                >
                >
                > On 6/9/08, samsoki <samsoki@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> Hi all,
                >> Je pense pour ma que l'on doit certainement revoir les choses. La
                >> littérature mentionne que la différence entre alternance de codes et
                >> mélange de codes réside au fait que le mélange se fait à l'intérieur
                >> de l'énoncé dans le syntagme par exemple tandis que l'alternance se
                >> fait entre phrase. Mais l'on parle aussi d'alternance intraphrase ce
                >> qui s'apparente avec la définition du mélange de langue. L'on sait
                >> aussi que le terme mélange de langue s'applique aussi au pidgin, au
                >> créole, ... Pourquoi ne pas réserver ce terme à ce genre de parler?
                >> Il y a de plu en plus dans la littérature les auteurs qui emploient
                >> comme terme couverture l'alternance de codes avec ses différents
                >> types. Qui mettra de l'ordre dans cette affaire?
                >> Sébastien Kitengye Sokoni - samsoki
                >> Doctorant à l'Université de Kinshasa
                >> Faculté des Lettres et Sciences Humaines
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> --- In code-switching@yahoogroups.com <code-switching%40yahoogroups.com>,
                >> soodeh bordbar
                >> <bluesky7257@...> wrote:
                >> >
                >> > Hi
                >> >
                >> > Can u make distinction between Code-mixing and Code-switching?
                >> > In my idea u should revise ur definition on mixed-code.
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Leoni Kotz� <leoni@...> wrote:
                >> > I understand it like this:
                >> >
                >> > Mixed code: lexical items of two or more languages are used within
                >> one
                >> > sentence (intra-sentencially) or across sentences (inter-
                >> sentencially).
                >> >
                >> > Interlanguae: term used to describe various stages in second
                >> language
                >> > learners� acquisition of target language. Learners achieve
                >> different levels
                >> > of proficiency of the target language, moving towards
                >> �correct� grammar of
                >> > target language.
                >> >
                >> > Hope I am right, and hope it is of help.
                >> >
                >> > Regards
                >> >
                >> > Leoni
                >> >
                >> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                >> > Checked by AVG.
                >> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1486 - Release Date:
                >> 05/06/2008
                >> > 18:29
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > James L. Fidelholtz
                > Posgrado en Ciencias del Lenguaje
                > Instituto de Ciencias Sociales y
                > Humanidades
                > Benemérita Universidad Autónoma de
                > Puebla, MÉXICO
                >



                --
                James L. Fidelholtz
                Posgrado en Ciencias del Lenguaje
                Instituto de Ciencias Sociales y
                Humanidades
                Benemérita Universidad Autónoma de
                Puebla, MÉXICO


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Sebba, Mark
                My view is that we should spend our time, as Celso suggests, examining the phenomena rather than puzzling over labelling. That said, it would be useful to have
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 10, 2008
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                  My view is that we should spend our time, as Celso suggests, examining the phenomena rather than puzzling over labelling. That said, it would be useful to have some clear definitions of terms, even if these are linked to specific theoretical approaches. 'Code switching' itself has been applied to such a wide range of phenomena that it is really necessary to define it clearly for the purposes of each individual study.

                  Regarding 'language mixing', the term 'mixed language' has been used since the 90s in contact language studies / creolistics to refer to languages like Michif and Copper Island Aleut which have lexicons and grammatical structures drawn from two identifiable languages. Although code switching may have had something to do with the formation of these languages (or may not), it is clear that these languages are not 'code switching' as the speakers are not necessarily bilingual.

                  However, I have recently been using the term 'written mixed language' or 'written mixed-language discourse' to refer to writing which involves two or more languages/codes. This is (a) because the term 'code switching,' although not that well-defined even for spoken language is even less well defined for written language and (b) because I would include, under this heading, types of text which involve two languages at the level of the text as a whole but which dont involve anything that resembles spoken code-switching, e.g. web sites which are composed of items in several languages.

                  In case you are wondering what I mean, here are some examples:

                  http://mrra.gov.mt/
                  http://www.litnet.co.za/cgi-bin/giga.cgi
                  (the content of these pages varies day to day - currently there is less English than in the past)
                  also
                  http://www.spanglishtimes.com/

                  I would be interested to hear from anyone who shares my interest in this kind of 'mixing' and am also continually on the lookout for more such sites (in any language pair). They cannot be located in general through search engines.

                  Thanks for any help you can offer.


                  Mark Sebba
                  ____________________________________________>h
                  Dr Mark Sebba
                  Reader in Sociolinguistics and Language Contact
                  Department of Linguistics,
                  Lancaster University
                  Lancaster LA1 4YT
                  Great Britain
                  Tel. +44 1524 592453
                  Fax +44 1524 843085
                  e-mail: M.Sebba@...
                  http://www.ling.lancs.ac.uk/profiles/Mark-Sebba/
                  http://web.onetel.com/~marksebba/index.htm

                  *I shall not be using apostrophes from 1st January 2007.*


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