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RE: [code-switching] Help me !!

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  • luciaq
    Hi Maria Eugenia, I ve been thinking since this discussion started. Apparently, these expressions or any other such trans cultural talk (how should I call
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 5, 2004
      Hi Maria Eugenia,
      I've been thinking since this discussion started. Apparently,
      these expressions or any other such "trans cultural talk" (how
      should I call them? are they contextualization cues ?) from a
      second culture are deitic in nature, don't you think? They point
      to another context. And they also appear to foreground an aspect
      of identity (we belong to this group). Anyway, I don't associate
      them with grammar, but with speech (discourse), and I agree they
      seem to signal "tiers" of meaning. Hmm. : - I
      Lucia Quental
      UFRJ
      Rio de Janeiro

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Maria Eugenia Trillo [mailto:metrillo2002@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 5:53 PM
      To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [code-switching] Help me !!


      Yes, thanks to all of you for a wonderful discussion.


      Allow me to re-introduce myself. I was a member a
      long time ago, before the Yahoo chat group, and
      occasionally check in. My name is Maria Eugenia
      Trillo. I have a Ph.D. from the University of New
      Mexico. For my dissertation, I studied the
      code-switching patterns of my El Paso, Texas
      (Spanish/English) community.

      Lucia, in my data I also have such transfers of
      metaphors, jokes, or idiomatic expressions of one
      language constructed in the linguistic code of the
      other. Pragmatically, this indicates that both, the
      listener and the speaker would need to be equally
      bilingual (proficiency, again) and bicultural in order
      to connect with all the nuances and contexts of the
      utterance.

      I wonder if this is analogous to surface v. deep
      structure...two tiers of "switching" or "mixing"...

      M.E. Trillo
    • lidaa aka
      hi all, this is in response to Ervin-Tripp s reference to Gumperz s definition which she has quoted as .. involving the switching of relatively long segments
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 5, 2004
        hi all,
        this is in response to Ervin-Tripp's reference to
        Gumperz's definition which she has quoted as "..
        involving the switching of relatively long segments
        larger than an NP, when both speaker and hearer are
        competent bilinguals."
        my point here is if only the NP of one language is
        used in the sentence of another language wont it be
        called code switching???
        let us first try to think of simple NP comprising of
        only a Noun (the data is in mixed Kashmiri-english)
        Kashmiri: John-an banov akh HOUSE
        john-ERG made a house
        'John constructed a house'.


        tim chi CRAZY BOYS
        they are crazy boys
        'They are crazy boys'


        mye vuch THE MAN WHO KILLED HIS FATHER
        i saw the man who killed his father
        'i saw the man who killed his father'

        in these three examples we have mixing of english NPs
        comprising of only a Noun, an adjective+Noun and in
        the final sentence a Complex NP comprising of an NP +
        an S. i would like to ask Myers-Scotton about these
        sentences. are they examples of code-switching or not?
        and are there any demarcations where in we can say
        that at a certain syntactic level it can be called
        code switching and at another not???/ and is the
        defiition given by Gumperz still held valid (it must
        be so as it has been quoted here?
        Furthermore, another question which comes to mind is
        that if a single word of one language is used in the a
        sentence in which all the other elements are of
        another language, and that word has an alternative in
        that langauge, is it an instance of CS or borrowing?
        waiting for a reply



        --- Susan Ervin-Tripp <ervintr1@...>
        wrote:
        > >Dear friends,
        > > Could anybody help me to
        > differentiate between code
        > >switching,code mixing and code alternation? I
        > really need your help.
        >
        > Not everyone uses these terms the same way.
        >
        > The classic definition of code switching was the one
        > used by John
        > Gumperz, involving
        > the switching of relatively long segments larger
        > than an NP, when
        > both speaker and hearer
        > are competent bilinguals. Such switching requires
        > syntactic
        > competence in both languages, since the switches may
        > involve whole
        > clauses or sentences.
        >
        > "Situational switching" involves changing language
        > according to
        > location, genre, topic,
        > or addressee. This is a kind of language/code
        > choice.
        >
        > "Conversational or metaphorical switching" is a
        > semiotic option of
        > skilled speakers who know enough syntax in both
        > languages to
        > intersperse the two even in the same context, to
        > signal something
        > interactional or semantic. Such switches can be at
        > any level, between
        > or within sentences. They can set the tone for
        > cultural/semantic
        > interpretation, "contextualize" what is said.
        >
        > "Discourse switching" uses unmarked switches just to
        > highlight some
        > discursive process, such as marking quotation or
        > emphasis. The
        > change, rather than the particular language in a
        > segment, does the
        > work.
        >
        > There is a contrasting type which involves lexical
        > insertion whether
        > of a root, word, or
        > short phrase or tag. These can be learned as wholes
        > and stuck into a
        > "matrix" language without
        > requiring syntactic skill in the intruding language.
        > This kind of
        > insertion often appears in new
        > learners. It also is used as a crutch when words are
        > momentarily forgotten.
        >
        > Some people use code alternation to include all of
        > these kinds, and
        > some use code mixing to
        > include all of these kinds. Let's see what other
        > answers you get,
        > since usage varies.
        >
        > Susan Ervin-Tripp
        >
        >
        >
        >
        -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
        > Susan M. Ervin-Tripp tel (510)
        > 642-5292* (msgs)
        > Professor Emeritus FAX (510)
        > 642-5293
        > Psychology Department
        > ervintrp@...
        > University of California
        > http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~ervintrp/
        > Berkeley CA 94720
        >
        ***********************************************************************
        >
        >


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      • Susan Ervin-Tripp
        Let me make clear, that was my paraphrase since any of you can read Gumperz writings on the subject, and must. This is not his wording at all. I put it that
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 5, 2004
          Let me make clear, that was my paraphrase since any of
          you can read Gumperz' writings on the subject, and must. This is not
          his wording at all.

          I put it that way in order to differentiate long switches from short
          ones which some people call insertional, which we and others
          have found can involve some different on-the-spot mechanisms.
          The short switches or insertions occur much earlier in
          learning, before speakers are fully competent bilinguals, able
          to handle more complex syntax.
          And in anybody, they can occur as a reaction to momentary
          processing effects, differences in lexical access which brings
          a word to mind in one language when it isn't at the moment
          accessible in the other. When our addressee is monolingual,
          we would normally not produce that word, but between bilinguals
          the constraints are weaker, so the normal oscillations in lexical
          access can show up as short switches or insertions. And of course
          there are all the other motivations for what is called also
          "nonce borrowing."

          susan ervin-tripp
        • Maria Eugenia Trillo
          Yes, yes, that s good, Lucia! Sometimes I feel we discuss form when, in fact, it is function that we need to be addressing. The use of two linguistic
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 6, 2004
            Yes, yes, that's good, Lucia! Sometimes I feel we
            discuss "form" when, in fact, it is "function" that we
            need to be addressing. The use of two linguistic
            codes to perform a discourse function...:) Some of my
            subjects use a variety of codes in their speech:
            monolingual discourse; streams of monolingual speech
            with phrasal or clausal insertions of the other
            language; metaphorical insertions; only nouns or just
            verbal phrases--all in the attempt to render
            authenticity to a quote, or express group identity,
            gain or relinquish the floor, or any number of other
            discourse functions.

            Thank you for your contribution.

            m.e.trillo
            --- luciaq <luciaq@...> wrote:
            > Hi Maria Eugenia,
            > I've been thinking since this discussion started.
            > Apparently,
            > these expressions or any other such "trans cultural
            > talk" (how
            > should I call them? are they contextualization cues
            > ?) from a
            > second culture are deitic in nature, don't you
            > think? They point
            > to another context. And they also appear to
            > foreground an aspect
            > of identity (we belong to this group). Anyway, I
            > don't associate
            > them with grammar, but with speech (discourse), and
            > I agree they
            > seem to signal "tiers" of meaning. Hmm. : - I
            > Lucia Quental
            > UFRJ
            > Rio de Janeiro
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Maria Eugenia Trillo
            > [mailto:metrillo2002@...]
            > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 5:53 PM
            > To: code-switching@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [code-switching] Help me !!
            >
            >
            > Yes, thanks to all of you for a wonderful
            > discussion.
            >
            >
            > Allow me to re-introduce myself. I was a member a
            > long time ago, before the Yahoo chat group, and
            > occasionally check in. My name is Maria Eugenia
            > Trillo. I have a Ph.D. from the University of New
            > Mexico. For my dissertation, I studied the
            > code-switching patterns of my El Paso, Texas
            > (Spanish/English) community.
            >
            > Lucia, in my data I also have such transfers of
            > metaphors, jokes, or idiomatic expressions of one
            > language constructed in the linguistic code of the
            > other. Pragmatically, this indicates that both, the
            > listener and the speaker would need to be equally
            > bilingual (proficiency, again) and bicultural in
            > order
            > to connect with all the nuances and contexts of the
            > utterance.
            >
            > I wonder if this is analogous to surface v. deep
            > structure...two tiers of "switching" or "mixing"...
            >
            > M.E. Trillo
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • neeraja raghupathi
            Hello all, I jst went through the interesting discussion that happened among the various linguists. I am presently doing my dissertation on CS behavior in
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 6, 2004
              Hello all,

              I jst went through the interesting discussion that happened among the various linguists. I am presently doing my dissertation on CS behavior in stutterers in the Indian context. The same has been studied in aphasic individuals. I have come across two different opnions w.r.t CS in aphasia. One view says that Code swithcing and code mixing are entirely different. code switching when becomes pathological (one you can see in aphasics) is called code mixing. And the other opinion is that (which is the recent one) code switching and code mixing can be used interchageably. they mean the same.

              I will get the exact references in anyone needs it.

              I am interested in knowing what the SLPs and Linguists have to say abt this...

              with best wishes,

              neeraja.


              Yahoo! India Education Special: Study in the UK now.

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            • muslimov mehmet zaqir oglu
              ... And what do you think about the following example: Siz vEtE-ttii mine-kaa-nibud ostr-ym puteli-st pois then take-IMPF-PASS what-COM-INDF
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 7, 2004
                >let us first try to think of simple NP comprising of
                >only a Noun (the data is in mixed Kashmiri-english)
                >Kashmiri: John-an banov akh HOUSE
                > john-ERG made a house
                > 'John constructed a house'.
                >
                >
                > tim chi CRAZY BOYS
                > they are crazy boys
                > 'They are crazy boys'
                >
                >
                > mye vuch THE MAN WHO KILLED HIS FATHER
                > i saw the man who killed his father
                > 'i saw the man who killed his father'
                >
                And what do you think about the following example:

                Siz vEtE-ttii mine-kaa-nibud' ostr-ym puteli-st pois then take-IMPF-PASS what-COM-INDF sharp-INSTR bottle-ELAT away


                'Then it was pulled by something sharp out of the bottle'
                ostr-ym is Russian,
                -nibud' is Votian and Russian,
                st 'Elative' is Izhorian,
                puteli, siz, -ttii, mine-, pois are Izhorian and Votian,
                vEtE, kaa are Votian
                Three languages are mixed in this sentence.
              • Chkoni Chkonishi
                Mehmet Where do you live? These languages, I mean Izhorian and Votian seem to be of Turcic group. can you tell me the name in Russian and the location of them.
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 14, 2004
                  Mehmet
                  Where do you live? These languages, I mean Izhorian and Votian seem to be of Turcic group. can you tell me the name in Russian and the location of them. Nibud is obviously a codeswitched item from Russian, but maybe almost aclimatized.
                  Respects
                  Chkoni

                  muslimov mehmet zaqir oglu <mehmet@...> wrote:
                  >let us first try to think of simple NP comprising of
                  >only a Noun (the data is in mixed Kashmiri-english)
                  >Kashmiri: John-an banov akh HOUSE
                  > john-ERG made a house
                  > 'John constructed a house'.
                  >
                  >
                  > tim chi CRAZY BOYS
                  > they are crazy boys
                  > 'They are crazy boys'
                  >
                  >
                  > mye vuch THE MAN WHO KILLED HIS FATHER
                  > i saw the man who killed his father
                  > 'i saw the man who killed his father'
                  >
                  And what do you think about the following example:

                  Siz vEtE-ttii mine-kaa-nibud' ostr-ym puteli-st pois then take-IMPF-PASS what-COM-INDF sharp-INSTR bottle-ELAT away


                  'Then it was pulled by something sharp out of the bottle'
                  ostr-ym is Russian,
                  -nibud' is Votian and Russian,
                  st 'Elative' is Izhorian,
                  puteli, siz, -ttii, mine-, pois are Izhorian and Votian,
                  vEtE, kaa are Votian
                  Three languages are mixed in this sentence.



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                • muslimov mehmet zaqir oglu
                  ... I live in Saint-Petersburg, Russia. ... Izhorian (Russian Izhorskij jazyk, éÖÏÒÓËÉÊ ÑÚÙË) is closely related to Finnish and Karelian, Votian
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 21, 2004
                    >Mehmet
                    >Where do you live?
                    I live in Saint-Petersburg, Russia.

                    >These languages, I mean Izhorian and Votian seem to be of >Turcic group. can you tell me the name in Russian and the >location of them.

                    Izhorian (Russian Izhorskij jazyk, Ижорский язык) is closely related to Finnish and Karelian, Votian (Russian Vodskij jazyk, Водский язык) is closely related to Estonian. They are spoken in the western part of Leningrad region, near the border between Estonia and Russia.

                    >Nibud is obviously a codeswitched item from Russian, but >maybe almost aclimatized.

                    Usually -lee is used; c^en-lee 'somebody'. But in purely Votian context -nibud is also used, c^en-nibud 'somebody'.
                    Respects
                    Mehmet
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