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Re: Definition?

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  • marcf28
    Hi Tim, Thanks for that. Yes - the Elottronix device is great. I ve been playing my violin thorugh it over the weekend. The problem with that is that my system
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 1, 2003
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      Hi Tim,

      Thanks for that.

      Yes - the Elottronix device is great. I've been playing my violin
      thorugh it over the weekend. The problem with that is that my system
      runs out of steam way before I do.

      Good luck and happiness in your new home :)
      Cheers,
      Marc
      --- In cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Lomas" <mlomas@r...>
      wrote:
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "marcf28" <marc@f...>
      > To: <cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 7:27 AM
      > Subject: [cnfractal_music] Definition? & Recording thread
      >
      > [snip]
      > > So I wondered what the group's definition of what
      > > constitutes algorithmic music is. I realise that this is a topic
      > > that has probably come up before, but thought I'd ask anyway.
      >
      > I won't presume to say what the group's definition of algorithmic
      music is,
      > but the short summary here seems to fit well :
      > http://www.algorithmicmusic.com/What.html
      > "Music made by use of an automated process" in short. By this
      definition,
      > I'd say the tape-delay-feedback idea does qualify. While you're
      providing an
      > initial phrase, the ensuing complexites are automated, process-
      driven, and
      > potentially not pre-planned by the musician.
      >
      > Also, check Phil J's summary at the group home page; it reminds us
      that
      > fractal music was the original heart of the matter here, but also
      embraces
      > other algorithmic music.
      >
      > [snip]
      > > I've been 'tinkering' with a free VST plug-in 'Elottronix' and it
      is
      > > a wonderful emulation of Robert Fripp's 'Frippatronix' - a very
      > > sophisticated delay, feedback and panning system.
      >
      > I've tried that one - it's great isn't it! It's one of those
      devices you
      > only have to fiddle witrh a few minutes before you think, boy, I
      could do my
      > next couple of albums right here!
      >
      > Re: DaveVD's idea of recording technique threads; I love the idea
      myself.
      > It's great to have a group of friendly colleagues to bring up such
      issues
      > with.
      >
      > Greets to all,
      > Martin
      > Just moved, and in need of a long rest
    • marcf28
      Hi Dave, Well, I ve done a kind of first draft with the Elottronix plug-in. It is quite gloomy , so I m not sure whether to upload it or not. I hijacked a
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 5, 2003
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        Hi Dave,

        Well, I've done a kind of first draft with the 'Elottronix' plug-in.
        It is quite 'gloomy', so I'm not sure whether to upload it or not. I
        hijacked a friend's system for an evening - he has 'Fruity Loops', so
        he now has a new plug-in to play with too :)

        It works great in FL if you slow the bpm down to about 60 and include
        an empty 'dummy' pattern to allow for eventual fade-outs.

        How are you getting on with it?

        All the best,
        Marc
        --- In cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Van Dyke"
        <dvandyke@s...> wrote:
        > Marc,
        > Amazing coincidence,,, I just downloaded the same thing. I have a
        > cheap little modeling amp (Johnson J-station) that does sort of the
        > same thing, but I've had trouble using it, as the delay timing is
        > tricky on it. I don't know what the "official requirements" under
        > algorithmic music would be, but as you all are aware, I'm an
        > everything but the kitchen sink kind of person (and I'm working on
        > the kitchen sink). I was thinking of trying it with a single
        channel,
        > but slowing the tempo down to a near crawl, thus spacing the notes
        > out a bit, then using it. Then of course, finding a piece to use it
        > in...... I'm a Fripp fiend from waaaaay back, & King Crimson always
        > seemed a bit algorythmic/fractal anyway.
        > What ever you figure out, please let me know.
        > One thing I really love about this group & it's artist is the vast
        > difference in theories & "Ears". Not everyone is a purist, but that
        > seems quite already with everyone in general. I hope that the
        > conversations & thread will continue to branch out into different
        > aspects of music & recording. It all relates back to what we're
        > trying to accomplish. I would like to propose a side-thread, or
        > series of documents from a variety of participants, dealing
        strictly
        > with recoding & recording techniques, which would/should prove
        > beneficial to all, especially those moving from a strictly general
        > midi environment to the variety of multi channel/track software
        > available. With all the free or cheap VSTi stuff out there, it
        seems
        > inevitable.
        > Anyone game?
        >
        > Dave
        >
        > By the way - a very happy (though belated) thanksgiving to all. I
        > would have written yesterday, but I was in a turkey induced
        coma......
        >
        > --- In cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com, "marcf28" <marc@f...> wrote:
        > > Hi all,
        > >
        > > I've been 'tinkering' with a free VST plug-in 'Elottronix' and it
        > is
        > > a wonderful emulation of Robert Fripp's 'Frippatronix' - a very
        > > sophisticated delay, feedback and panning system. Fans of Robert
        > > Fripp will know that he (sometimes with Eno) could generate
        entire
        > > albums using this set up and a handful of simple phrases.
        > >
        > > With my on(and on)going Algomusical Offering project, I've been
        > > playing around with the theme from the Bach work with some
        > > interesting results, but a question struck me - is this really
        > > algorithmic music? Personally, I think it is, but would be a
        > > borderline case. So I wondered what the group's definition of
        what
        > > constitutes algorithmic music is. I realise that this is a topic
        > > that has probably come up before, but thought I'd ask anyway.
        > >
        > > I'm not even sure how I'm going to realise the music, as
        Elottronix
        > > doesn't seem to work in SynthEdit (at least on my humble system).
        > It
        > > does work in 'Psycle' however, and it may just be possible to
        > record
        > > the sequence and render straight to wave there.
        > >
        > > All the best,
        > > Marc
      • Dave Van Dyke
        I honestly haven t had much time to do more than an initial fiddle with it. It really seems powerfull, or at least a very distinctive flavor to use. I had
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 5, 2003
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          I honestly haven't had much time to do more than an initial fiddle
          with it. It really seems powerfull, or at least a very
          distinctive "flavor" to use.
          I had thought about slowing down the bpm on a piece to use it on. It
          makes more sense to use it in a minimalistic way. I was thinking of
          using the same settings for 2 different tracks & patches & cross
          fading back and forth (randomly, of course) between them - treating
          them as a single point source sound. That might give an interesting
          edge to it..

          I'll try to make some time this weekend to play & I'll let you know.
          I do want to hear the piece you're working on...


          Dave
          --- In cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com, "marcf28" <marc@f...> wrote:
          > Hi Dave,
          >
          > Well, I've done a kind of first draft with the 'Elottronix' plug-
          in.
          > It is quite 'gloomy', so I'm not sure whether to upload it or not.
          I
          > hijacked a friend's system for an evening - he has 'Fruity Loops',
          so
          > he now has a new plug-in to play with too :)
          >
          > It works great in FL if you slow the bpm down to about 60 and
          include
          > an empty 'dummy' pattern to allow for eventual fade-outs.
          >
          > How are you getting on with it?
          >
          > All the best,
          > Marc
          > --- In cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Van Dyke"
          > <dvandyke@s...> wrote:
          > > Marc,
          > > Amazing coincidence,,, I just downloaded the same thing. I have a
          > > cheap little modeling amp (Johnson J-station) that does sort of
          the
          > > same thing, but I've had trouble using it, as the delay timing is
          > > tricky on it. I don't know what the "official requirements" under
          > > algorithmic music would be, but as you all are aware, I'm an
          > > everything but the kitchen sink kind of person (and I'm working
          on
          > > the kitchen sink). I was thinking of trying it with a single
          > channel,
          > > but slowing the tempo down to a near crawl, thus spacing the
          notes
          > > out a bit, then using it. Then of course, finding a piece to use
          it
          > > in...... I'm a Fripp fiend from waaaaay back, & King Crimson
          always
          > > seemed a bit algorythmic/fractal anyway.
          > > What ever you figure out, please let me know.
          > > One thing I really love about this group & it's artist is the
          vast
          > > difference in theories & "Ears". Not everyone is a purist, but
          that
          > > seems quite already with everyone in general. I hope that the
          > > conversations & thread will continue to branch out into different
          > > aspects of music & recording. It all relates back to what we're
          > > trying to accomplish. I would like to propose a side-thread, or
          > > series of documents from a variety of participants, dealing
          > strictly
          > > with recoding & recording techniques, which would/should prove
          > > beneficial to all, especially those moving from a strictly
          general
          > > midi environment to the variety of multi channel/track software
          > > available. With all the free or cheap VSTi stuff out there, it
          > seems
          > > inevitable.
          > > Anyone game?
          > >
          > > Dave
          > >
          > > By the way - a very happy (though belated) thanksgiving to all. I
          > > would have written yesterday, but I was in a turkey induced
          > coma......
          > >
          > > --- In cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com, "marcf28" <marc@f...>
          wrote:
          > > > Hi all,
          > > >
          > > > I've been 'tinkering' with a free VST plug-in 'Elottronix' and
          it
          > > is
          > > > a wonderful emulation of Robert Fripp's 'Frippatronix' - a very
          > > > sophisticated delay, feedback and panning system. Fans of
          Robert
          > > > Fripp will know that he (sometimes with Eno) could generate
          > entire
          > > > albums using this set up and a handful of simple phrases.
          > > >
          > > > With my on(and on)going Algomusical Offering project, I've been
          > > > playing around with the theme from the Bach work with some
          > > > interesting results, but a question struck me - is this really
          > > > algorithmic music? Personally, I think it is, but would be a
          > > > borderline case. So I wondered what the group's definition of
          > what
          > > > constitutes algorithmic music is. I realise that this is a
          topic
          > > > that has probably come up before, but thought I'd ask anyway.
          > > >
          > > > I'm not even sure how I'm going to realise the music, as
          > Elottronix
          > > > doesn't seem to work in SynthEdit (at least on my humble
          system).
          > > It
          > > > does work in 'Psycle' however, and it may just be possible to
          > > record
          > > > the sequence and render straight to wave there.
          > > >
          > > > All the best,
          > > > Marc
        • marcf28
          Hi Dave and all, Well, I ve uploaded the track to the Warehouse: http://www.artsong.org/cnf/Warehouse/675141_dark_discipline.mp3 I did it for the Algomusical
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 6, 2003
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            Hi Dave and all,

            Well, I've uploaded the track to the Warehouse:
            http://www.artsong.org/cnf/Warehouse/675141_dark_discipline.mp3

            I did it for the Algomusical Offering set, but I'm not sure whether
            it will be included or not. It is 'scary movie' stuff.

            I used Timidity++ to make a cello sample and a flute sample. The
            original theme was split between them and one of the string synths
            in 'Fruity Loops'. Because the theme itself is very chromatic, there
            are passages where the layering produces some quite
            piercing 'clusters'. I repeated the theme patterns once, then
            filtered it out so that the key shifted from C Minor to Eb Major. I
            also used the 'musication' of Bach's name (in German notation
            B-A-C-H becomes Bb-A-C-Bnat). The modulated sounds at the end were
            done by combining the first and second phrases of the theme in
            the 'LogiMod' module in 'SynthEdit'.

            All the best,
            Marc

            --- In cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Van Dyke"
            <dvandyke@s...> wrote:
            > I honestly haven't had much time to do more than an initial fiddle
            > with it. It really seems powerfull, or at least a very
            > distinctive "flavor" to use.
            > I had thought about slowing down the bpm on a piece to use it on.
            It
            > makes more sense to use it in a minimalistic way. I was thinking of
            > using the same settings for 2 different tracks & patches & cross
            > fading back and forth (randomly, of course) between them - treating
            > them as a single point source sound. That might give an interesting
            > edge to it..
            >
            > I'll try to make some time this weekend to play & I'll let you
            know.
            > I do want to hear the piece you're working on...
            >
            >
            > Dave
            > --- In cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com, "marcf28" <marc@f...> wrote:
            > > Hi Dave,
            > >
            > > Well, I've done a kind of first draft with the 'Elottronix' plug-
            > in.
            > > It is quite 'gloomy', so I'm not sure whether to upload it or
            not.
            > I
            > > hijacked a friend's system for an evening - he has 'Fruity
            Loops',
            > so
            > > he now has a new plug-in to play with too :)
            > >
            > > It works great in FL if you slow the bpm down to about 60 and
            > include
            > > an empty 'dummy' pattern to allow for eventual fade-outs.
            > >
            > > How are you getting on with it?
            > >
            > > All the best,
            > > Marc
            > > --- In cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Van Dyke"
            > > <dvandyke@s...> wrote:
            > > > Marc,
            > > > Amazing coincidence,,, I just downloaded the same thing. I have
            a
            > > > cheap little modeling amp (Johnson J-station) that does sort of
            > the
            > > > same thing, but I've had trouble using it, as the delay timing
            is
            > > > tricky on it. I don't know what the "official requirements"
            under
            > > > algorithmic music would be, but as you all are aware, I'm an
            > > > everything but the kitchen sink kind of person (and I'm working
            > on
            > > > the kitchen sink). I was thinking of trying it with a single
            > > channel,
            > > > but slowing the tempo down to a near crawl, thus spacing the
            > notes
            > > > out a bit, then using it. Then of course, finding a piece to
            use
            > it
            > > > in...... I'm a Fripp fiend from waaaaay back, & King Crimson
            > always
            > > > seemed a bit algorythmic/fractal anyway.
            > > > What ever you figure out, please let me know.
            > > > One thing I really love about this group & it's artist is the
            > vast
            > > > difference in theories & "Ears". Not everyone is a purist, but
            > that
            > > > seems quite already with everyone in general. I hope that the
            > > > conversations & thread will continue to branch out into
            different
            > > > aspects of music & recording. It all relates back to what we're
            > > > trying to accomplish. I would like to propose a side-thread, or
            > > > series of documents from a variety of participants, dealing
            > > strictly
            > > > with recoding & recording techniques, which would/should prove
            > > > beneficial to all, especially those moving from a strictly
            > general
            > > > midi environment to the variety of multi channel/track software
            > > > available. With all the free or cheap VSTi stuff out there, it
            > > seems
            > > > inevitable.
            > > > Anyone game?
            > > >
            > > > Dave
            > > >
            > > > By the way - a very happy (though belated) thanksgiving to all.
            I
            > > > would have written yesterday, but I was in a turkey induced
            > > coma......
            > > >
            > > > --- In cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com, "marcf28" <marc@f...>
            > wrote:
            > > > > Hi all,
            > > > >
            > > > > I've been 'tinkering' with a free VST plug-in 'Elottronix'
            and
            > it
            > > > is
            > > > > a wonderful emulation of Robert Fripp's 'Frippatronix' - a
            very
            > > > > sophisticated delay, feedback and panning system. Fans of
            > Robert
            > > > > Fripp will know that he (sometimes with Eno) could generate
            > > entire
            > > > > albums using this set up and a handful of simple phrases.
            > > > >
            > > > > With my on(and on)going Algomusical Offering project, I've
            been
            > > > > playing around with the theme from the Bach work with some
            > > > > interesting results, but a question struck me - is this
            really
            > > > > algorithmic music? Personally, I think it is, but would be a
            > > > > borderline case. So I wondered what the group's definition of
            > > what
            > > > > constitutes algorithmic music is. I realise that this is a
            > topic
            > > > > that has probably come up before, but thought I'd ask anyway.
            > > > >
            > > > > I'm not even sure how I'm going to realise the music, as
            > > Elottronix
            > > > > doesn't seem to work in SynthEdit (at least on my humble
            > system).
            > > > It
            > > > > does work in 'Psycle' however, and it may just be possible to
            > > > record
            > > > > the sequence and render straight to wave there.
            > > > >
            > > > > All the best,
            > > > > Marc
          • Tim Conrardy
            ... Funny you should mention FL studio. I just got it to beta-test and create presets for a new plugin for it called Sytrus: a 6 OP/ Osc FM/ Analog/ Additive
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 6, 2003
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              >I used Timidity++ to make a cello sample and a flute sample. The
              >original theme was split between them and one of the string synths
              >in 'Fruity Loops'.> > I
              > > > hijacked a friend's system for an evening - he has 'Fruity
              >Loops',
              > > so
              > > > he now has a new plug-in to play with too :)
              > > >
              > > > It works great in FL if you slow the bpm down to about 60 and
              > > include
              > > > an empty 'dummy' pattern to allow for eventual fade-outs.


              Funny you should mention FL studio. I just got it to beta-test and create
              presets for a new plugin for it called Sytrus: a 6 OP/ Osc FM/ Analog/
              Additive combo with 3 filters and 5 envelope types for each OP/ OSC with an
              effects section. Quite impressive. I just created 100 presets for it and
              should be out before the end of this month.

              FL has a lot a algorithmic stuff in it to, like it's randomizing
              elements.Still working with it.

              TimC

              _________________________________________________________________
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            • marcf28
              Hi Tim and all, Which version is FL up to now? I think the one I was using was version 3. I didn t have time to go into any more than the basics of what I
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 8, 2003
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                Hi Tim and all,

                Which version is FL up to now? I think the one I was using was
                version 3. I didn't have time to go into any more than the basics of
                what I needed to know for what was essentially a very 'minimal'
                sequence and how to work with some effects.

                Cheers,
                Marc
                --- In cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Conrardy"
                <tconrardy@h...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > >I used Timidity++ to make a cello sample and a flute sample. The
                > >original theme was split between them and one of the string synths
                > >in 'Fruity Loops'.> > I
                > > > > hijacked a friend's system for an evening - he has 'Fruity
                > >Loops',
                > > > so
                > > > > he now has a new plug-in to play with too :)
                > > > >
                > > > > It works great in FL if you slow the bpm down to about 60 and
                > > > include
                > > > > an empty 'dummy' pattern to allow for eventual fade-outs.
                >
                >
                > Funny you should mention FL studio. I just got it to beta-test and
                create
                > presets for a new plugin for it called Sytrus: a 6 OP/ Osc FM/
                Analog/
                > Additive combo with 3 filters and 5 envelope types for each OP/ OSC
                with an
                > effects section. Quite impressive. I just created 100 presets for
                it and
                > should be out before the end of this month.
                >
                > FL has a lot a algorithmic stuff in it to, like it's randomizing
                > elements.Still working with it.
                >
                > TimC
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year — six
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