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Re: [cnfractal_music] New music uploaded at Archive

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  • Gavin Stevens
    Hi Steve & all, Great to hear from you again. I hope you are keeping well. I like the new piece - it sounds very different from your earlier music. I see from
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 11, 2007
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      Hi Steve & all,

      Great to hear from you again. I hope you are keeping well.

      I like the new piece - it sounds very different from your earlier music.

      I see from subsequent posts that it is freely composed. It is always
      interesting to hear what CNFMF members' music sounds like if they adopt
      the pencil & paper approach rather than the software.

      To give some answers to your questions:

      Yes, I think it is going somewhere, but it would benefit from different
      orchestration - not necessarily heavier or more, just different - but I
      do understand that it is an experiment & so instrumentation might not
      have been your top concern.

      I look forward to hearing more.

      Best wishes,

      Gavin.

      On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 05:09:05 +0100
      Stephen Hopper <Stephen_Hopper@...> wrote:

      > Hello everyone,
      >
      > :~ )
      >
      > I've just uploaded a new piece to Archive.
      >
      > This is a new style I'm trying out. It is just a rough sketch at the
      > moment...very much an experiment. Is this going somewhere? I would
      > love to hear your thoughts on it.
      >
      > Here is the link:
      >
      > http://www.archive.org/details/AnExperimentInMusicalStyle
      >
      > Highest regards,
      >
      > Steve
      > (Stephen Hopper)
      >
      > --
      >
      > Our bodies are the instruments through which we experience life on
      > this sweet Earth and manifest Spirit into matter. Being fully alive in
      > our bodies is to awaken the Divine on Earth."
      >
      > Brooke Medicine Eagle
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Stephen Hopper
      Hi Gavin & All, ... Thank you Gavin. It feels good to be back. I m glad you enjoy the new piece. That is why I compose...for the pleasure of others, as well as
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 12, 2007
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        Hi Gavin & All,

        :~ )

        Thank you Gavin. It feels good to be back.

        I'm glad you enjoy the new piece. That is why I compose...for the
        pleasure of others, as well as for my own recreation and re-creation.

        I'll definitely continue developing my use of species counterpoint as a
        base for my work. I'd always looked upon it as a rather dry series of
        exercises until someone pointed out you can actually use this stuff to
        compose!

        I agree with what you say about the orchestration. You are right in
        saying instrumentation was not my priority for this piece, but I should
        still have made more of an effort. I also need to improve my abilities
        in bringing out individual melodic lines. That was something I spotted
        straight away. Still, it's early days for me...I'll get there. :~ )

        Okay, that's enough of me rambling on. I'll sign off for now, and start
        catching up on group posts...two years of them!

        Best wishes,

        Steve

        ________________________________________________

        Gavin Stevens wrote:

        Hi Steve & all,

        Great to hear from you again. I hope you are keeping well.

        I like the new piece - it sounds very different from your earlier music.

        I see from subsequent posts that it is freely composed. It is always
        interesting to hear what CNFMF members' music sounds like if they adopt
        the pencil & paper approach rather than the software.

        To give some answers to your questions:

        Yes, I think it is going somewhere, but it would benefit from different
        orchestration - not necessarily heavier or more, just different - but I
        do understand that it is an experiment & so instrumentation might not
        have been your top concern.

        I look forward to hearing more.

        Best wishes,

        Gavin
        ________________________________________________

        --

        Our bodies are the instruments through which we experience life on this sweet Earth and manifest Spirit into matter. Being fully alive in our bodies is to awaken the Divine on Earth."

        Brooke Medicine Eagle
      • Hans Stragier
        Hello Stephen, I listened to your An Experiment in Musical Style several times now. Yes, it is going somewhere. Already, the counterpoint adds interest, as
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 12, 2007
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          Hello Stephen,

          I listened to your An Experiment in Musical Style several times now.

          Yes, it is going somewhere. Already, the counterpoint adds interest, as the ear is quite pleased to hear not only a motif return in another voice, but the activity of other voices during this return.

          This particular piece suffers a little from too much similarily within the main piano line. Also, the quality of the other instruments is not particularly great. But of course, the rendering was not the main focus of the exercise.

          I also love contrapuntal music, and I've been toying with an idea to base some more expanded music compositions on it.

          I have two examples, but they use electronic instruments. However, with some considerable effort, the effect could be extended to acoustic instruments.

          Here is the first piece: M42 Nebula Rise
          http://www.wusik.com/song.php?id=158
          This is a straight-forward arrangement of a Fantasy for 6 viols (similar to the cello-violin family but with frets). Each line is simply played by one instance of the M42 synth.

          The second piece is The Abyss (posted on the forum here in Dec 2005).
          http://www.wusik.com/song.php?id=1078
          This time the base piece is a 4-voice polyphonic composition created using Okonsar's Polyphony Composer software (http://www.okonsar.com/). The output of Polyphony Composer is very choral-like, but with obvious modern touches. But there are still only 4 basic choral-like lines in the whole piece. However, several layers of the M42 synth were needed (with some additional Vox'd synth sounds). The flowing nature of the piece is due to the choral-like lines - the suspensions (dissonance with resolutions) are clearly heard throughout the piece.

          While any synth could be used, the M42 synth does make it a little easier.

          What is exciting for me, is I feel the idea in these two synth pieces, can also be done with acoustic instruments. The basic idea is to create "Meta"-instruments, perhaps using synths as a model, so that one choral-like note then triggers a whole "rack" of acoustic instruments.

          I like the music of the contrapuntal masters - Palenstrina, Victoria, di Lasso, Monteverdi, Tallis, etc - but I also feel that in this modern age, something more elaborate should be done.

          Cheers,
          Hans



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Stephen Hopper
          To: cnfractal_music@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:09 PM
          Subject: [cnfractal_music] New music uploaded at Archive


          Hello everyone,

          :~ )

          I've just uploaded a new piece to Archive.

          This is a new style I'm trying out. It is just a rough sketch at the
          moment...very much an experiment. Is this going somewhere? I would love
          to hear your thoughts on it.

          Here is the link:

          http://www.archive.org/details/AnExperimentInMusicalStyle

          Highest regards,

          Steve
          (Stephen Hopper)

          --

          Our bodies are the instruments through which we experience life on this
          sweet Earth and manifest Spirit into matter. Being fully alive in our
          bodies is to awaken the Divine on Earth."

          Brooke Medicine Eagle





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stephen Hopper
          Hello Hans & all, ... I m very late in replying to your post...my apologies. No excuses...try to forgive the unforgivable. Many thanks for taking the time to
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 18, 2007
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            Hello Hans & all,

            :~ )

            I'm very late in replying to your post...my apologies. No excuses...try
            to forgive the unforgivable.

            Many thanks for taking the time to listen to my little offering, and for
            the nice things you wrote about it.

            I agree with what you say about the repetitive quality of the piano
            line. That comes from my leaning toward Minimalist style. I'll look into
            that and see if I can rewrite it a bit. I already have some very general
            ideas about how I might go about it.

            You mention quality of the instruments. I agree they don't sound too
            good in this particular piece, although they are actually from a set
            that is quite good. Speaking of instruments, I have Vienna Special
            Edition (from Vienna Symphonic Library) on order. It should arrive on
            Monday.

            Moving on now to your music. This is VERY good music! Would you upload
            the midi files to our forum? I would like to see how they sound using
            Vienna Special Edition instruments, once I get a feel for them. Maybe we
            could collaborate on that, as a project?

            Your idea of Meta-instruments sounds good. I confess the details of
            creating such a thing make my eyes glaze over, if I understand you even
            a little.

            I share your enthusiasm for early music. John Dowland's work is my
            favourite.

            My reply is getting lengthy, so I'll sign off now.

            Highest regards,

            Steve
            ________________________________________________

            Hans wrote:

            Hello Stephen,

            I listened to your An Experiment in Musical Style several times now.

            Yes, it is going somewhere. Already, the counterpoint adds interest, as
            the ear
            is quite pleased to hear not only a motif return in another voice, but the
            activity of other voices during this return.

            This particular piece suffers a little from too much similarily within
            the main
            piano line. Also, the quality of the other instruments is not particularly
            great. But of course, the rendering was not the main focus of the exercise.

            I also love contrapuntal music, and I've been toying with an idea to
            base some
            more expanded music compositions on it.

            I have two examples, but they use electronic instruments. However, with some
            considerable effort, the effect could be extended to acoustic instruments.

            Here is the first piece: M42 Nebula Rise
            http://www.wusik.com/song.php?id=158
            This is a straight-forward arrangement of a Fantasy for 6 viols (similar
            to the
            cello-violin family but with frets). Each line is simply played by one
            instance
            of the M42 synth.

            The second piece is The Abyss (posted on the forum here in Dec 2005).
            http://www.wusik.com/song.php?id=1078
            This time the base piece is a 4-voice polyphonic composition created using
            Okonsar's Polyphony Composer software (http://www.okonsar.com/). The
            output of
            Polyphony Composer is very choral-like, but with obvious modern touches. But
            there are still only 4 basic choral-like lines in the whole piece. However,
            several layers of the M42 synth were needed (with some additional Vox'd
            synth
            sounds). The flowing nature of the piece is due to the choral-like lines
            - the
            suspensions (dissonance with resolutions) are clearly heard throughout the
            piece.

            While any synth could be used, the M42 synth does make it a little easier.

            What is exciting for me, is I feel the idea in these two synth pieces,
            can also
            be done with acoustic instruments. The basic idea is to create
            "Meta"-instruments, perhaps using synths as a model, so that one choral-like
            note then triggers a whole "rack" of acoustic instruments.

            I like the music of the contrapuntal masters - Palenstrina, Victoria, di
            Lasso,
            Monteverdi, Tallis, etc - but I also feel that in this modern age, something
            more elaborate should be done.

            Cheers,
            Hans
            ________________________________________________
          • Hans Stragier
            Hello Stephen, Late?? No! I really struggle to make replies at all ... VSL! I have read that VSL is the best. You ll soon be very busy exploring the sounds
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 20, 2007
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              Hello Stephen,

              Late?? No! I really struggle to make replies at all ...

              VSL! I have read that VSL is the best. You'll soon be very busy exploring the sounds and how to render compositions. Your species counterpoint exercises will be perfect for that. I understand that VSL comes dry - so you will need to add reverb. If you are on Windows, I can recommend the free SIR and the free impulses at noisevault.com. Just ask away if you need more info.

              I will try to email you the midi files, if I can find them. However, I do not think you will find them very interesting. 90% of the allure of the electronic pieces, is the evolving sounds of the synthesizer. One note triggers a pretty complex sound like the rhythmic parts, filter sweeps, etc. Without that, the underlying notes are very bland. The Nebula Rise piece is from William Lawes (ca 1630), the group Fretwork did an outstanding performance of some of his Viol music. The midi file for that would sound very good with VSL instruments, but really nothing like the electronic piece. The Abyss piece would probably sound dreadful with VSL instruments or with a choir. It would sound like an abomination of a chorale work with strange resolutions, impossible intervallic leaps and maybe strange harmonies and not much of a melody. Again, it is the evolving sounds of the synthesizer that drives the piece.

              That is where the meta-instruments come in. If one midi note can trigger such a complex sound from a synthesizer - why can't something similar be accomplished with a "rack" of acoustic instruments? For example, in the Abyss piece starting at about 6:53 is a high sparkle sound. From examing the programming of this patch, this sparkle sound is simply a very fast arpeggiation. It would be easy to program a similar arpeggiation and assign it to a piccolo or maybe a celesta (or maybe layers of different instruments). Programming rhythmic parts are also fairly straightforward. Filter sweeps present a more difficult challenge, but I have heard modern music that utitilize all sorts of harmonics and pitch bends (e.g., the music of Ligeti) that hint towards it being possible.

              I can imagine otherways to combine contrapuntal music with algorithms. Are you familiar with Dave van Dykes Tapestry-based pieces and performed using RealGuitar? I think there are terrific but lack the interest of traditional form. I feel a form can be given by having an underlying contrapuntal foundation. Here a Palestrina-like piece can be used and each voice given a Tapestry-like treatment, so that the great rhythmic vitally of fractals is given the ebb-and-flow of contrapuntal music.

              These are some og my ideas, but I think there are are many, many other possibilities. And some of these possibilities rely on an underlying contrapuntal foundation - which you are about to explore. So explore away and think of reaching horizons even further away ...

              Take Care,
              Hans

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stephen Hopper
              Hello Hans & All, ... I ve had Virtual Symphonic Library for a few days now, and have just begun to learn how to use it. The quality of the instruments is
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 26, 2007
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                Hello Hans & All,

                :~ )

                I've had Virtual Symphonic Library for a few days now, and have just
                begun to learn how to use it. The quality of the instruments is
                outstanding...certainly the best virtual instruments I've heard to date.
                I look forward to using them in my work.

                You are quite right in saying VSL comes dry, so good reverb is
                essential. I've had SIR for quite a while, but I didn't know about
                Noise Vault. Many thanks for the heads-up on that.

                If you cannot find those midi files, don't struggle to find them. I'm
                more than content to listen to your mp3's.

                I would love to hear Dave van Dykes Tapestry-based pieces. Are they up
                at our Art Song Warehouse? Perhaps I should take a look there.

                I've been thinking some more about your meta-instruments idea, and the
                contrapuntal-based foundation. There is actually something a little bit
                like it in VSL, where one can set certain notes to trigger instrument
                patches. Do you have anything under way along those lines?

                Highest regards to all,

                Steve

                ____________________________________________________________________

                Hans Wrote:

                (snip)...

                VSL! I have read that VSL is the best. You'll soon be very busy
                exploring the sounds and how to render compositions. Your species
                counterpoint exercises will be perfect for that. I understand that VSL
                comes dry - so you will need to add reverb. If you are on Windows, I can
                recommend the free SIR and the free impulses at noisevault.com. Just ask
                away if you need more info.

                (snip)...

                I will try to email you the midi files, if I can find them.

                (snip)...

                That is where the meta-instruments come in. If one midi note can trigger
                such a complex sound from a synthesizer - why can't something similar be
                accomplished with a "rack" of acoustic instruments?...

                (snip)...

                I can imagine otherways to combine contrapuntal music with algorithms.
                Are you familiar with Dave van Dykes Tapestry-based pieces and performed
                using RealGuitar? I think there are terrific but lack the interest of
                traditional form. I feel a form can be given by having an underlying
                contrapuntal foundation. Here a Palestrina-like piece can be used and
                each voice given a Tapestry-like treatment, so that the great rhythmic
                vitally of fractals is given the ebb-and-flow of contrapuntal music.

                (snip)...

                ____________________________________________________________________


                --

                Our bodies are the instruments through which we experience life on this
                sweet Earth and manifest Spirit into matter. Being fully alive in our
                bodies is to awaken the Divine on Earth."

                Brooke Medicine Eagle
              • Hans Stragier
                Hello Steve and All, ... I mainly use impulses the 350 seat hall (under real spaces) and sometimes the 1800 seat. I use one impulse while composing and then
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 29, 2007
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                  Hello Steve and All,

                  > I've had SIR for quite a while, but I didn't know about
                  > Noise Vault. Many thanks for the heads-up on that.

                  I mainly use impulses the 350 seat hall (under real spaces) and sometimes
                  the 1800 seat. I use one impulse while composing and then for the final
                  mix, I usually use 6 impulses with the instruments assigned to the nearest
                  of 6 stage positions. I cannot hear the difference when adding more than 6
                  (probably even with more than 4), but I feel more depth is added when I put
                  the brass and percussion inthe very back.

                  > I would love to hear Dave van Dykes Tapestry-based pieces. Are they up
                  > at our Art Song Warehouse? Perhaps I should take a look there.

                  Yes, starting with Vertical and those immediately following. He also has a
                  soundclick site.

                  > I've been thinking some more about your meta-instruments idea, and the
                  > contrapuntal-based foundation. There is actually something a little bit
                  > like it in VSL, where one can set certain notes to trigger instrument
                  > patches. Do you have anything under way along those lines?

                  I do not yet have time to pursue this idea. But I want to try it soon.

                  Please listen to a modern chamber work called "Estudio sobre Murmullos"
                  (Study of whisperings):

                  http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...?bandID=585182

                  Take Care,
                  Hans
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