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Re: Would CMMI be Continuous or Continual Improvement

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  • Peter
    Your illustration of a slope vs a staircase is the perfect explanation as to why it is continuous and not continual; even though I would be happy to argue
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 16, 2013
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      Your illustration of a slope vs a staircase is the perfect explanation as to why it is continuous and not continual; even though I would be happy to argue either case. The slow improvement, evolution of the practices, the fact that they are being adopted, one project at a time, being sent back for refinement and correction, improvement is most definitely a slope, not a series of sudden steps which bring you from one level to the next. I would even add that it is a slippery slope on which it is so much easier and faster to go from level 3 to 1 than it is to go from 1 to 2.

      Peter
      qpit.net

      --- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, "avinasharunkumar" <aavins73@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > Could CMMI be termed as Continual or Continuous Improvement? I understand Continuous as slope , whereas continual would be more like a staircase. Also, Continuous being a subset of Continual.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Avi :-)
      >
    • kimndave
      A series of individual, unconnected events is not continuous. By description, one project at a time, indicates that progress plateaus until the next project or
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 19, 2013
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        A series of individual, unconnected events is not continuous. By description, one project at a time, indicates that progress plateaus until the next project or meeting. So, while small, each advance is a sudden step, not always 'upward.'

        Dave S.

        On 6/17/2013 1:36 AM, Peter wrote:
         

        Your illustration of a slope vs a staircase is the perfect explanation as to why it is continuous and not continual; even though I would be happy to argue either case. The slow improvement, evolution of the practices, the fact that they are being adopted, one project at a time, being sent back for refinement and correction, improvement is most definitely a slope, not a series of sudden steps which bring you from one level to the next. I would even add that it is a slippery slope on which it is so much easier and faster to go from level 3 to 1 than it is to go from 1 to 2.

        Peter
        qpit.net

        --- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, "avinasharunkumar" <aavins73@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > Could CMMI be termed as Continual or Continuous Improvement? I understand Continuous as slope , whereas continual would be more like a staircase. Also, Continuous being a subset of Continual.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Avi :-)
        >

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      • Gurpreet Kaur
        Hi All,   Being a member of SEPG in the organization, I have been assigned the task of collecting the attributes for measuring the SEPG activities. I have
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 5, 2013
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          Hi All,
           
          Being a member of SEPG in the organization, I have been assigned the task of collecting the attributes for measuring the SEPG activities. I have listed the following attributes, 

          1. Effort variance
          2. Schedule variances
          3. No. Of Improvement Request Received
          4. No. of Improvement deployed
          5. No. of Tailoring Requests Received
          6. No. of Tailoring Requests Approved
           
          The following are my queries:
          1. First of all, are these measures enough?
          2. What would we measure from these? How to analyze the data?
          3. How do we improve by capturing the above data?

          Thanks in Advance

          Regards
          Gurpreet




        • pactotoole
          Gurpreet, I think the most important question you’ve asked is the last one: “How do we improve by capturing the above data?” To which I would answer,
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 14, 2013
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            Gurpreet,
             
            I think the most important question you’ve asked is the last one: “How do we improve by capturing the above data?”  To which I would answer, “You don’t!”
             
            As much as I agree that process improvement should be managed like a project, and that the set of metrics you propose adhere to that philosophy, I would also encourage you to think about measuring attributes of your resulting SERVICE.  That is, how about things like:
             
            1.  Value variance (let’s assume for a moment that you wouldn’t even CONSIDER implementing an “improvement” without hypothesizing its value to your customers – and by “customers” I mean the project teams trying to use your outputs to get their work done).  How close are you coming to hitting that hypothesized value?
             
            2.  Customer satisfaction – are you providing the project teams with solutions to their problems?  Would THEY answer the same way on a “customer satisfaction survey”?  Or are you just providing a bunch of stuff recommended by some goofy model that your “customers” don’t want, don’t need, and can’t use?
             
            3.  Peer review volunteer requests – how many people are asking to be on the peer review team for the next set of processes, templates, etc. to make sure that they are the best they can be?
             
            4.  Pilot volunteer requests – how many projects are jumping at the chance to pilot the next best thing that the EPG produces?
             
            If the objective is to produce things of VALUE, then you should have some metrics that shed insight into the success of that objective.  The goal isn’t just producing “stuff” on schedule and with budget as indicated by the metrics in your post.  Rather, it’s to enable to the projects to perform their work in a more effective and efficient manner.
             
            BTW, I’m not quite sure what insight you are trying to get by measuring Tailoring Requests Received/Approved.  This makes it sound like tailoring is a BAD thing.  I don’t know about you, but I’m certainly glad that a tailor can make an off-the-rack suit fit the bizarre contours of my body!  Just like tailoring a suit, process tailoring is INTENDED TO BE USED!  The process should be tailored to make it the most effective and efficient way to perform the work – why WOULDN’T you want someone to do that?
             
            One last thought.  In my consulting practice, I don’t recommend the use of “tailoring requests” at all.  In my way of thinking, tailoring guidelines establish the pre-approved “bounds of empowerment” for the process executor.  The people doing the work are ENCOURAGED to make decisions that enhance their probability of achieving successful outcomes.  I don’t want them asking permission to do that, I want to treat them as the professionals I expect them to be.
             
            Sorry about the rant.  Most of your metrics were a good start, but they were philosophically sterile.
             
            Pat
             
            Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 6:25 AM
            Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] SEPG Metrics Sheet
             
             

            Hi All,
             
            Being a member of SEPG in the organization, I have been assigned the task of collecting the attributes for measuring the SEPG activities. I have listed the following attributes,

            1. Effort variance
            2. Schedule variances
            3. No. Of Improvement Request Received
            4. No. of Improvement deployed
            5. No. of Tailoring Requests Received
            6. No. of Tailoring Requests Approved
             
            The following are my queries:
            1. First of all, are these measures enough?
            2. What would we measure from these? How to analyze the data?
            3. How do we improve by capturing the above data?

            Thanks in Advance

            Regards
            Gurpreet
             
             
             
             
          • EDWARD F WELLER III
            Gurpreet None of these measures would allow you to evaluate organizational performance improvement, which should be the reason for the existence of an SEPG THe
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 14, 2013
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              Gurpreet
               
              None of these measures would allow you to evaluate organizational performance improvement, which should be the reason for the existence of an SEPG
               
              THe first 2, while important, do not measure improvement (unless that is what you meant, and that assumes these are business goals)
               
              No mention of quality
               
              Improvement or tailoring  requests received/deployed can be upset by poor requests, which would then have a high reject rate
               
              Tailoring requests might be a function or poor processes
               
              What is the business objective of the SEPG - start identifying metrisc from there
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 4:25 AM
              Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] SEPG Metrics Sheet

               

              Hi All,
               
              Being a member of SEPG in the organization, I have been assigned the task of collecting the attributes for measuring the SEPG activities. I have listed the following attributes, 

              1. Effort variance
              2. Schedule variances
              3. No. Of Improvement Request Received
              4. No. of Improvement deployed
              5. No. of Tailoring Requests Received
              6. No. of Tailoring Requests Approved
               
              The following are my queries:
              1. First of all, are these measures enough?
              2. What would we measure from these? How to analyze the data?
              3. How do we improve by capturing the above data?

              Thanks in Advance

              Regards
              Gurpreet




            • Erich Meier
              Hi Gurpreet, I suggest starting with the business goals and objectives of the SEPG (eg its charter or mission). Then ask yourself What is the question that I
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 14, 2013
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                Hi Gurpreet,

                I suggest starting with the business goals and objectives of the SEPG (eg its charter or mission). Then ask yourself "What is the question that I need to ask to find out if we meet the business goal or objective?"   And finally ask yourself what you need to measure to answer each question.  This is called goal- question-metric method. 

                If you are not following that path, you run into danger of measuring something, but not knowing why and what to do with it. 

                As a verification, for each metric ask yourself "What could I decide when I know this number?" If you can't answer this question, you are just producing overhead.

                It sounds trivial, but I have run into this way too often.

                So for example, if one of your SEPG's objectives is to "Improve quality and customer satisfaction by improving processes", you might ask "How do I measure quality and customer satisfaction and find out if we are improving it by having better processes" and thus eg collect defects in the field and do customer satisfaction surveys or interviews. Then to find out if these numbers are related to process improvements, correlate the process audit results of projects with good results to those with bad ones. If the numbers correlate (projects with good audit results achieve higher customer satisfaction) then your SEPG is effective. If not, the processes are ineffective and you need to improve your process improvement activities. 

                Makes sense?

                Hope that helps. 

                Regards
                Erich 

                --
                Erich Meier, CTO, Method Park Software AG 


                Am 14.07.2013 um 14:10 schrieb "Gurpreet Kaur" <gpkaur@...>:

                 

                Hi All,
                 
                Being a member of SEPG in the organization, I have been assigned the task of collecting the attributes for measuring the SEPG activities. I have listed the following attributes, 

                1. Effort variance
                2. Schedule variances
                3. No. Of Improvement Request Received
                4. No. of Improvement deployed
                5. No. of Tailoring Requests Received
                6. No. of Tailoring Requests Approved
                 
                The following are my queries:
                1. First of all, are these measures enough?
                2. What would we measure from these? How to analyze the data?
                3. How do we improve by capturing the above data?

                Thanks in Advance

                Regards
                Gurpreet




              • neil@processgroup.com
                ... Enough for what? A good sepg goal is to provide excellent service to the organization. These measures are ok. Adding sepg customer satisfaction would give
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 14, 2013
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                  1. First of all, are these measures enough?

                  Enough for what?

                  A good sepg goal is to provide excellent service to the organization. These measures are ok. Adding sepg customer satisfaction would give you a service quality perspective. 

                  2. What would we measure from these? How to analyze the data?

                  Any measures you pick should be based on a goal or situation you are trying to understand. Sit down with your management team and clarify


                  3. How do we improve by capturing the above data?

                  Take a look at chapter 3 of the following link. It has some detailed examples of measuring improvement and measuring an sepg. 

                  You can read it for free on amazon.  


                  Thanks and regards, Neil Potter
                  Cell/text: 972 418 9541

                  On Jul 5, 2013, at 4:25 AM, Gurpreet Kaur <gpkaur@...> wrote:

                   

                  Hi All,
                   
                  Being a member of SEPG in the organization, I have been assigned the task of collecting the attributes for measuring the SEPG activities. I have listed the following attributes, 

                  1. Effort variance
                  2. Schedule variances
                  3. No. Of Improvement Request Received
                  4. No. of Improvement deployed
                  5. No. of Tailoring Requests Received
                  6. No. of Tailoring Requests Approved
                   
                  The following are my queries:
                  1. First of all, are these measures enough?
                  2. What would we measure from these? How to analyze the data?
                  3. How do we improve by capturing the above data?

                  Thanks in Advance

                  Regards
                  Gurpreet




                • Bruce Epstein - BFD SAS
                  One additional thought, if you really want to count something process-related, count the number of waivers (or whatever you call them in your organization)
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 14, 2013
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                    One additional thought, if you really want to count something
                    process-related, count the number of "waivers" (or whatever you call them
                    in your organization) requested and granted, either at tailoring time or
                    during quality reviews. The more there are, the further you are from
                    providing a range of processes that meet real project needs, or perhaps
                    the further you are from having deployed your standard processes; there
                    are also some other possible conditions. On the other hand, I'd be very
                    suspicious if there were never any waiver requests.

                    Bruce
                    P.S. Sorry for the mess my e-mail provider made to the original message
                    below.

                    Le Dim 14 juillet 2013 15:58, PACT.otoole@... a écrit :
                    >
                    > Gurpreet,
                    >
                    > I think the most important question you’ve asked is the last one: “How
                    > do we improve by capturing the above data?” To which I would answer,
                    > “You don’t!”
                    >
                    > As much as I agree that process improvement should be managed like a
                    > project, and that the set of metrics you propose adhere to that
                    > philosophy, I would also encourage you to think about measuring attributes
                    > of your resulting SERVICE. That is, how about things like:
                    >
                    > 1. Value variance (let’s assume for a moment that you wouldn’t even
                    > CONSIDER implementing an “improvement” without hypothesizing its value
                    > to your customers – and by “customers” I mean the project teams
                    > trying to use your outputs to get their work done). How close are you
                    > coming to hitting that hypothesized value?
                    >
                    > 2. Customer satisfaction – are you providing the project teams with
                    > solutions to their problems? Would THEY answer the same way on a
                    > “customer satisfaction survey”? Or are you just providing a bunch of
                    > stuff recommended by some goofy model that your “customers” don’t
                    > want, don’t need, and can’t use?
                    >
                    > 3. Peer review volunteer requests – how many people are asking to be on
                    > the peer review team for the next set of processes, templates, etc. to
                    > make sure that they are the best they can be?
                    >
                    > 4. Pilot volunteer requests – how many projects are jumping at the
                    > chance to pilot the next best thing that the EPG produces?
                    >
                    > If the objective is to produce things of VALUE, then you should have some
                    > metrics that shed insight into the success of that objective. The goal
                    > isn’t just producing “stuff” on schedule and with budget as
                    > indicated by the metrics in your post. Rather, it’s to enable to the
                    > projects to perform their work in a more effective and efficient manner.
                    >
                    > BTW, I’m not quite sure what insight you are trying to get by measuring
                    > Tailoring Requests Received/Approved. This makes it sound like tailoring
                    > is a BAD thing. I don’t know about you, but I’m certainly glad that a
                    > tailor can make an off-the-rack suit fit the bizarre contours of my body!
                    > Just like tailoring a suit, process tailoring is INTENDED TO BE USED! The
                    > process should be tailored to make it the most effective and efficient way
                    > to perform the work – why WOULDN’T you want someone to do that?
                    >
                    > One last thought. In my consulting practice, I don’t recommend the use
                    > of “tailoring requests” at all. In my way of thinking, tailoring
                    > guidelines establish the pre-approved “bounds of empowerment” for the
                    > process executor. The people doing the work are ENCOURAGED to make
                    > decisions that enhance their probability of achieving successful outcomes.
                    > I don’t want them asking permission to do that, I want to treat them as
                    > the professionals I expect them to be.
                    >
                    > Sorry about the rant. Most of your metrics were a good start, but they
                    > were philosophically sterile.
                    >
                    > Pat
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Gurpreet Kaur
                    > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 6:25 AM
                    > To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] SEPG Metrics Sheet
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi All,
                    >
                    > Being a member of SEPG in the organization, I have been assigned the task
                    > of collecting the attributes for measuring the SEPG activities. I have
                    > listed the following attributes,
                    >
                    >
                    > 1. Effort variance
                    > 2. Schedule variances
                    > 3. No. Of Improvement Request Received
                    > 4. No. of Improvement deployed
                    > 5. No. of Tailoring Requests Received
                    > 6. No. of Tailoring Requests Approved
                    >
                    > The following are my queries:
                    > 1. First of all, are these measures enough?
                    > 2. What would we measure from these? How to analyze the data?
                    > 3. How do we improve by capturing the above data?
                    >
                    >
                    > Thanks in Advance
                    >
                    >
                    > Regards
                    > Gurpreet
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • rob.leinen
                    Gurpreet, I believe that you are asking the wrong question. In the end, the metrics that you collect should address your s/the organization s defined
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 15, 2013
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                      Gurpreet,

                      I believe that you are asking the wrong question. In the end, the metrics that you collect should address your's/the organization's defined information needs. Here it appears that you have identified some metrics and are asking for more based solely on a process area, but without knowing if you have a need for any of them. What this leads to is a lot of time and resources spent (probably wasted) collecting data and producing/analyzing metrics for which the organization may not have a need.

                      Take a look at MA goal#1. The focus of the specific practices in MA G1 is to determine your information needs and align the metrics that you collect to address them (i.e., Objectives Base Metrics). If you do this, then your question should change from "What should/can I measure" to "I have an information need(documented as a measurement objective), what metrics/measurements can I use to satisfied it". This is a much more effective approach and will help you to produce metrics that the organization will actually use and find value in doing so.

                      Cheers,
                      Rob L.


                      --- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, Gurpreet Kaur <gpkaur@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi All,
                      >  
                      > Being a member of SEPG in the organization, I have been assigned the
                      > task of collecting the attributes for measuring the SEPG activities. I have
                      > listed the following attributes, 
                      >
                      > 1. Effort variance
                      > 2. Schedule variances
                      > 3. No. Of Improvement Request Received
                      > 4. No. of Improvement deployed
                      > 5. No. of Tailoring Requests Received
                      > 6. No. of Tailoring Requests Approved
                      >  
                      > The following are my queries:
                      > 1. First of all, are these measures enough?
                      > 2. What would we measure from these? How to analyze the data?
                      > 3. How do we improve by capturing the above data?
                      >
                      > Thanks in Advance
                      >
                      > Regards
                      > Gurpreet
                      >
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