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Verification and Validation

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  • Sonia
    Hi Group, The other day, my organization s CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 12, 2013
      Hi Group,

      The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.

      In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.

      I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.

      Please clarify.

      Regards
      Gurpreet
    • Eswara Chandra Kosaraju
      Gurpreet, You answered your own question - the techniques are more of a how , which are specific to your organization (like ways to conduct peer reviews,
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 24, 2013
        Gurpreet,

        You answered your own question - the techniques are more of a 'how', which are specific to your organization (like ways to conduct peer reviews, criteria of peer reviews etc). You may want to look up for best practices in each of these areas.

        Good luck!

        Eswara


        On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 1:25 AM, Sonia <gpkaur@...> wrote:
         

        Hi Group,

        The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.

        In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.

        I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.

        Please clarify.

        Regards
        Gurpreet




        --
        Eshwar Kosaraju
        347-885-3477
      • Henry Schneider | PPQC
        Gurpreet, Actually, the differences between VER and VAL are a bit different than explained below. There are four basic Verification methods: analysis,
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 25, 2013
          Gurpreet,
          Actually, the differences between VER and VAL are a bit different than explained below.  There are four basic Verification methods:  analysis, demonstration, inspection, and test.  VER is about determining if the work product meets its requirements.  So unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, system testing, integration testing, etc. are all forms of VER.  Validation is about determining if the work product will work in its intended environment.  So VAL involves the user, customer, or representative is ensure that you built the correct product.  There is Requirements Validation and work product Validation.
          With Kind Regards,
          Henry Schneider


          Henry Schneider                                               CMMI Institute-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
          President/Senior Principal Consultant     
          CMMI Institute-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser  
          Mobile:  832-628-2486                              
          CMMI Institute-Certified Intro to CMMI Instructor
          Office:  512-614-0840
          Email:  henry@...
          Process and Product Quality Consulting    http://www.ppqc.net 
          PPQC Blog                                                       http://PPQC.blogspot.com 

          Process and Product Quality Consulting      Facilitating your process journey ...






          From: Eswara Chandra Kosaraju <eshwar.kosaraju@...>
          Reply-To: <cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013 11:40 PM
          To: <cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation

           

          Gurpreet,

          You answered your own question - the techniques are more of a 'how', which are specific to your organization (like ways to conduct peer reviews, criteria of peer reviews etc). You may want to look up for best practices in each of these areas.

          Good luck!

          Eswara


          On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 1:25 AM, Sonia <gpkaur@...> wrote:
           

          Hi Group,

          The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.

          In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.

          I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.

          Please clarify.

          Regards
          Gurpreet




          --
          Eshwar Kosaraju
          347-885-3477

        • Joe Smith
          Gurpreet   There is a chance a list to address at least some of your questions could be found in CMMI v1.3. Please  consider finding the sections
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 25, 2013
            Gurpreet
             
            There is a chance a list to address at least some of your questions could be found in CMMI v1.3. Please  consider finding the sections on Verification, find Validation, and consider reading those sections.
             
            Regards
            Joe
            --- On Tue, 2/12/13, Sonia <gpkaur@...> wrote:

            From: Sonia <gpkaur@...>
            Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation
            To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, February 12, 2013, 9:25 AM

             
            Hi Group,

            The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.

            In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.

            I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.

            Please clarify.

            Regards
            Gurpreet

          • pactotoole
            Sonia, I don’t think you have this quite right yet. VERIFICATION is what your developers and testers do to ensure they meet the requirements. This includes
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 25, 2013
               
              Sonia,
               
              I don’t think you have this quite right yet.  VERIFICATION is what your developers and testers do to ensure they meet the requirements.  This includes things like peer reviews, technical proofs of concept, technical prototypes, integration and system testing, etc.  Verification activities can be performed without any external intervention – no customer, user, or surrogate (someone like Product Management) need participate in these activities.
               
              VALIDATION, on the other hand, adopts the customers’ and/or users’ perspective and addresses the question, “Can my people use this system in our environment to solve our problems (or to get the work done)?”  Almost by its very nature, validation benefits from external participation by the customer, user, or their surrogate.  This includes things like customer demos, user prototypes, storyboards, wireframes, workflow analysis, and user acceptance testing.
               
              Verification ensures that we give them what they asked for.
               
              Validation ensures that they DON’T say, “You gave me what I asked for but not what I wanted!”
               
              Hope this helps,
               
              Pat
               
               
              From: Sonia
              Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 3:25 AM
              Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation
               
               

              Hi Group,

              The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.

              In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.

              I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.

              Please clarify.

              Regards
              Gurpreet

            • Neil Potter
              Hi Gupreet, VER includes peer reviews (SG2) (of all / selected project docs.) + component / unit testing (SG3) VAL includes System / acceptance testing PI
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 25, 2013

                Hi Gupreet,

                VER includes peer reviews (SG2) (of all / selected project docs.) + component / unit testing (SG3)
                VAL includes System / acceptance  testing
                PI includes integration testing, and it also refers to VER and VAL in the process area

                So VER is not just peer reviews

                Some companies merge some parts of these testing practices together because it is the same testing activities that are re-ran for different situations

                Thanks and regards, Neil Potter
                Cell/text: 972 418 9541
                Fax: 866-526-4645
                neil@...
                http://www.processgroup.com

                On Feb 12, 2013, at 3:25 AM, Sonia <gpkaur@...> wrote:

                 

                Hi Group,

                The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.

                In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.

                I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.

                Please clarify.

                Regards
                Gurpreet


              • EDWARD F WELLER III
                Gurpreet You appear to be confusing the definitions of VER and VAL with activities that could be either or both of VER and VAL. Note that Validation is not
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 25, 2013
                  
                  Gurpreet
                   
                  You appear to be confusing the definitions of VER and VAL with activities that could be either or both of VER and VAL. Note that  Validation is not the primary purpose of testing until you get to system or acceptance testing, and even then System Testing is more about Verification ( "was it done right")  than Validation ("was the right thing built"). Also, Validation is something that should be done throughout development, starting with requirements (See RD in the CMMI, Goal 3, SP 3.5), which suggests prototypes, analysis, and demonstrations.
                   
                  The Introductory Notes in the CMMI highlight the differences, as does Wikipedia (very top level) at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verification_and_validation_(software)
                   
                  The two terms are consistently misused, even in contracts, which can lead to arbitration and lawsuits.
                   
                  Hope this helps
                   
                  Ed
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 10:40 PM
                  Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation

                   

                  Gurpreet,

                  You answered your own question - the techniques are more of a 'how', which are specific to your organization (like ways to conduct peer reviews, criteria of peer reviews etc). You may want to look up for best practices in each of these areas.

                  Good luck!

                  Eswara


                  On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 1:25 AM, Sonia <gpkaur@...> wrote:
                   

                  Hi Group,

                  The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.

                  In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.

                  I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.

                  Please clarify.

                  Regards
                  Gurpreet




                  --
                  Eshwar Kosaraju
                  347-885-3477

                • Putcha V. Narasimham
                   Henry Schneider:  Good and simple explanation. 91 9866071582 & Skype: prof.pvn Putcha V. Narasimham Knowledge Enabler Systems--kenablersys The best anywhere
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 25, 2013
                     Henry Schneider:  Good and simple explanation.
                     
                    91 9866071582 & Skype: prof.pvn
                    Putcha V. Narasimham
                    Knowledge Enabler Systems--kenablersys
                    The best anywhere must reach the needy everywhere...
                     

                    From: Henry Schneider | PPQC <henry@...>
                    To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013 4:51 PM
                    Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation
                     
                    Gurpreet,
                    Actually, the differences between VER and VAL are a bit different than explained below.  There are four basic Verification methods:  analysis, demonstration, inspection, and test.  VER is about determining if the work product meets its requirements.  So unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, system testing, integration testing, etc. are all forms of VER.  Validation is about determining if the work product will work in its intended environment.  So VAL involves the user, customer, or representative is ensure that you built the correct product.  There is Requirements Validation and work product Validation.
                    With Kind Regards,
                    Henry Schneider

                    Henry Schneider                                               CMMI Institute-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
                    President/Senior Principal Consultant     
                    CMMI Institute-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser  
                    Mobile:  832-628-2486                              
                    CMMI Institute-Certified Intro to CMMI Instructor
                    Office:  512-614-0840
                    Email:  henry@...
                    Process and Product Quality Consulting    http://www.ppqc.net/ 
                    PPQC Blog                                                       http://ppqc.blogspot.com/ 

                    Process and Product Quality Consulting      Facilitating your process journey ...





                    From: Eswara Chandra Kosaraju <eshwar.kosaraju@...>Reply-To: <cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013 11:40 PMTo: <cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation

                     
                    Gurpreet,

                    You answered your own question - the techniques are more of a 'how', which are specific to your organization (like ways to conduct peer reviews, criteria of peer reviews etc). You may want to look up for best practices in each of these areas.

                    Good luck!

                    Eswara
                    On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 1:25 AM, Sonia <gpkaur@...> wrote:
                     
                    Hi Group,

                    The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.

                    In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.

                    I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.

                    Please clarify.

                    Regards
                    Gurpreet


                    -- Eshwar Kosaraju 347-885-3477
                  • rob.leinen
                    Hi Gurpreet, I disagree (in-part) with what you have stated, because I don t believe it addresses the true intent of either Verification or Validation. The
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 25, 2013
                      Hi Gurpreet,

                      I disagree (in-part) with what you have stated, because I don't believe it addresses the true intent of either Verification or Validation.

                      The purpose of Verification is to prove that you have met your requirements. As you stated you can accomplish this with reviews, inspections, walkthroughs, etc. But requirements are also verified through most forms of testing (e.g., Unit, Integration, System, regression, etc.). When you think about it, for most forms of testing the test cases are written against requirements.

                      Validation is very different. In validation we want to know if our products and work product meet their intended need(s)(stated another way did we build the right product). When a project is chartered to develop an application, it is done so with the intent that it will satisfy identified business need(s) of the sponsor or bring some new benefit to the sponsor. For example, say an auto manufacturer wants to change the firmware on one of their engine controllers because they believe they can increase the fuel efficiency of each auto by 10 mpg. Verification activities will verify that the engine controller is performing to specifications, but they don't necessarily verify that the engine controller will meet its intended business needs. That's where validation comes in. Here you will want to implement validation activities to prove that the 10 mpg efficiency can be achieved. There are many ways by which validation can be performed for an application, for example: User Acceptance Testing, Simulations, Prototyping, Mock-ups, Storyboarding, JAD walkthroughs, etc… You have to pick the right approach for the product you are building and what it is that you are trying to validate with it.

                      The other aspect of validation that is often overlooked is the validation of work products. Every work product that an application development team produces has a customer/end user that must be able to use that work product to perform their function on the project. For example, a Software Requirement Specification (SRS) is needed by the design team to produce application designs and by the test team to develop test cases. So in this scenario we want to validate if the SRS is written to the appropriate level that both of these teams can use it to support their purposes. A common form of validation for this is to include design and test stakeholders in the SRS review, and assign them review criteria that validate the SRS fitness of use for their purposes.

                      Cheers,
                      Rob L.


                      --- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, "Sonia" <gpkaur@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Group,
                      >
                      > The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.
                      >
                      > In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.
                      >
                      > I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.
                      >
                      > Please clarify.
                      >
                      > Regards
                      > Gurpreet
                      >
                    • Peter
                      Hello Gurpreet A number of techniques have been listed, I will not add to them, but I will mention that most of them can be used for both V&V. Years ago (in
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 26, 2013
                        Hello Gurpreet

                        A number of techniques have been listed, I will not add to them, but I will mention that most of them can be used for both V&V. Years ago (in the days of punched cards), I ran dummy runs of programmes on paper, thereby validating the product in a review. If you are running a validation exercise using test scenarios based on the requirements, you will be verifying the product as you validate. The separation between the two is not as simple and obvious as some comments state.

                        Peter
                        qpit.net

                        --- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, "Sonia" <gpkaur@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Group,
                        >
                        > The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.
                        >
                        > In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.
                        >
                        > I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.
                        >
                        > Please clarify.
                        >
                        > Regards
                        > Gurpreet
                        >
                      • Neil Potter
                        .....and if the customer provides the correct environment, test scenarios and desired test results, but doesn t show up themselves, still VAL?! You both
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 26, 2013
                          .....and if the customer provides the correct environment,  test scenarios and desired test results, but doesn't show up themselves, still VAL?!

                          You both stress 'customer participation' rather than meet customer expectations. 

                          The initial point was VER is more than peer reviews...

                          Thanks and regards, Neil Potter
                          Cell/text: 972 418 9541
                          Fax: 866-526-4645
                          neil@...
                          http://www.processgroup.com

                          On Feb 25, 2013, at 7:10 AM, pact.otoole@... wrote:

                           

                           
                          Sonia,
                           
                          I don’t think you have this quite right yet.  VERIFICATION is what your developers and testers do to ensure they meet the requirements.  This includes things like peer reviews, technical proofs of concept, technical prototypes, integration and system testing, etc.  Verification activities can be performed without any external intervention – no customer, user, or surrogate (someone like Product Management) need participate in these activities.
                           
                          VALIDATION, on the other hand, adopts the customers’ and/or users’ perspective and addresses the question, “Can my people use this system in our environment to solve our problems (or to get the work done)?”  Almost by its very nature, validation benefits from external participation by the customer, user, or their surrogate.  This includes things like customer demos, user prototypes, storyboards, wireframes, workflow analysis, and user acceptance testing.
                           
                          Verification ensures that we give them what they asked for.
                           
                          Validation ensures that they DON’T say, “You gave me what I asked for but not what I wanted!”
                           
                          Hope this helps,
                           
                          Pat
                           
                           
                          From: Sonia
                          Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 3:25 AM
                          Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation
                           
                           

                          Hi Group,

                          The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.

                          In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.

                          I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.

                          Please clarify.

                          Regards
                          Gurpreet



                        • praveen
                          Hi   In our type of enviornment where we support our own production unit, the definition is very simple:   VER: Testing the product in our Lab Internally by
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 26, 2013
                            Hi
                             
                            In our type of enviornment where we support our own production unit, the definition is very simple:
                             
                            VER: Testing the product in our Lab Internally by Testers
                             
                            VAL: We send our team to shop / prodcution floor for testing, where they test it along with production team / engineers.

                            Thanks & Regards

                            Praveen Harkawat
                            L & T Mumbai India

                            --- On Mon, 2/25/13, Putcha V. Narasimham <putchavn@...> wrote:

                            From: Putcha V. Narasimham <putchavn@...>
                            Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation
                            To: "cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com" <cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
                            Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 11:19 PM

                             
                             Henry Schneider:  Good and simple explanation.
                             
                            91 9866071582 & Skype: prof.pvn
                            Putcha V. Narasimham
                            Knowledge Enabler Systems--kenablersys
                            The best anywhere must reach the needy everywhere...
                             

                            From: Henry Schneider | PPQC <henry@...>
                            To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013 4:51 PM
                            Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation
                             
                            Gurpreet,
                            Actually, the differences between VER and VAL are a bit different than explained below.  There are four basic Verification methods:  analysis, demonstration, inspection, and test.  VER is about determining if the work product meets its requirements.  So unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, system testing, integration testing, etc. are all forms of VER.  Validation is about determining if the work product will work in its intended environment.  So VAL involves the user, customer, or representative is ensure that you built the correct product.  There is Requirements Validation and work product Validation.
                            With Kind Regards,
                            Henry Schneider

                            Henry Schneider                                               CMMI Institute-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
                            President/Senior Principal Consultant     
                            CMMI Institute-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser  
                            Mobile:  832-628-2486                              
                            CMMI Institute-Certified Intro to CMMI Instructor
                            Office:  512-614-0840
                            Email:  henry@...
                            Process and Product Quality Consulting    http://www.ppqc.net/ 
                            PPQC Blog                                                       http://ppqc.blogspot.com/ 

                            Process and Product Quality Consulting      Facilitating your process journey ...





                            From: Eswara Chandra Kosaraju <eshwar.kosaraju@...>Reply-To: <cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013 11:40 PMTo: <cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation

                             
                            Gurpreet,

                            You answered your own question - the techniques are more of a 'how', which are specific to your organization (like ways to conduct peer reviews, criteria of peer reviews etc). You may want to look up for best practices in each of these areas.

                            Good luck!

                            Eswara
                            On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 1:25 AM, Sonia <gpkaur@...> wrote:
                             
                            Hi Group,

                            The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.

                            In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.

                            I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.

                            Please clarify.

                            Regards
                            Gurpreet


                            -- Eshwar Kosaraju 347-885-3477
                          • EDWARD F WELLER III
                            Praveen Noting that this is a CMMI forum, your validation activities miss what is expected in RD SP 3.5, in other words, when you start the project or task,
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 26, 2013
                              
                              Praveen
                              Noting that this is a CMMI forum, your validation activities miss what is expected in RD SP 3.5, in other words, when you start the project or task, how do you ensure that the true customer expectation will be met by the work you do
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: praveen
                              Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:29 AM
                              Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation

                               

                              Hi
                               
                              In our type of enviornment where we support our own production unit, the definition is very simple:
                               
                              VER: Testing the product in our Lab Internally by Testers
                               
                              VAL: We send our team to shop / prodcution floor for testing, where they test it along with production team / engineers.

                              Thanks & Regards

                              Praveen Harkawat
                              L & T Mumbai India

                              --- On Mon, 2/25/13, Putcha V. Narasimham <putchavn@...> wrote:

                              From: Putcha V. Narasimham <putchavn@...>
                              Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation
                              To: "cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com" <cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
                              Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 11:19 PM

                               
                               Henry Schneider:  Good and simple explanation.
                               
                              91 9866071582 & Skype: prof.pvn
                              Putcha V. Narasimham
                              Knowledge Enabler Systems--kenablersys
                              The best anywhere must reach the needy everywhere...
                               

                              From: Henry Schneider | PPQC <henry@...>
                              To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013 4:51 PM
                              Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation
                               
                              Gurpreet,
                              Actually, the differences between VER and VAL are a bit different than explained below.  There are four basic Verification methods:  analysis, demonstration, inspection, and test.  VER is about determining if the work product meets its requirements.  So unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, system testing, integration testing, etc. are all forms of VER.  Validation is about determining if the work product will work in its intended environment.  So VAL involves the user, customer, or representative is ensure that you built the correct product.  There is Requirements Validation and work product Validation.
                              With Kind Regards,
                              Henry Schneider

                              Henry Schneider                                               CMMI Institute-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
                              President/Senior Principal Consultant     
                              CMMI Institute-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser  
                              Mobile:  832-628-2486                              
                              CMMI Institute-Certified Intro to CMMI Instructor
                              Office:  512-614-0840
                              Email:  henry@...
                              Process and Product Quality Consulting    http://www.ppqc.net/ 
                              PPQC Blog                                                       http://ppqc.blogspot.com/ 

                              Process and Product Quality Consulting      Facilitating your process journey ...





                              From: Eswara Chandra Kosaraju <eshwar.kosaraju@...>Reply-To: <cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013 11:40 PMTo: <cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation

                               
                              Gurpreet,

                              You answered your own question - the techniques are more of a 'how', which are specific to your organization (like ways to conduct peer reviews, criteria of peer reviews etc). You may want to look up for best practices in each of these areas.

                              Good luck!

                              Eswara
                              On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 1:25 AM, Sonia <gpkaur@...> wrote:
                               
                              Hi Group,

                              The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.

                              In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.

                              I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.

                              Please clarify.

                              Regards
                              Gurpreet


                              -- Eshwar Kosaraju 347-885-3477

                            • pactotoole
                              Neil, I don’t think that saying that “Almost by its very nature, validation benefits from external participation by the customer, user, or their
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 26, 2013
                                 
                                Neil,
                                 
                                I don’t think that saying that “Almost by its very nature, validation benefits from external participation by the customer, user, or their surrogate” is STRESSING customer participation.  I think it’s simply saying that in many cases, deciding whether a particular evaluation activity is verification or validation is pretty straightforward.  If we are conducting an engineering proof of concept to evaluate 3 alternative approaches to a problem to see which one best satisfies the requirements, we are verifying our technical approach.  If we show the user mocked-up screens or reports and ask for feedback regarding their usefulness in performing their work, we are validating part of our proposed solution.
                                 
                                However, there are a number of activities that straddle the two, and people struggle to determine whether it’s validation, verification, or both.  In my view of the world, one indicator that swings the pendulum toward validation is the active involvement of the customer, user, or their surrogate (i.e., Product Management).  It’s not REQUIRED, but it’s a whole lot easier getting insight into whether something will meet the user’s and work in their environment if we are speaking directly to them!
                                 
                                An airline pilot can give me, a non-pilot, access to the flight simulator, provide the test scenarios (emergency procedures to be executed when two of four engines fail), and indicate the desired result (land safely), but that doesn’t mean my repeated failed attempts to land the plane under such circumstances constitutes “validation.”  On the other hand, if an experienced pilot is using the flight simulator to execute the tests, I have a bit more confidence that validation is being performed.
                                 
                                Again, in my way of thinking user/customer/surrogate participation is strongly desired but not required.  Much of it comes down to whether our engineers have the appropriate domain skills and knowledge to use the system as intended in the customer environment.  Even if they do, I STILL want to have early and often feedback from the customer!  Whether the model suggests it or not, isn’t that just a good way to know whether you are going to meet their needs?
                                 
                                BTW, I don’t believe the original point was “VER is more than peer reviews.”  Despite including the line, “I’m not asking the difference between the two...” the original post demonstrated confusion in exactly that regard!  We’re all just trying to share “rules of thumb” that swing the pendulum between VER and VAL.
                                 
                                Oy, now I’M getting stressed!
                                 
                                (Not really, just having a bit of fun with a respected colleague!)
                                 
                                Pat
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 4:11 AM
                                Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation
                                 
                                 

                                .....and if the customer provides the correct environment,  test scenarios and desired test results, but doesn't show up themselves, still VAL?!

                                 
                                You both stress 'customer participation' rather than meet customer expectations.
                                 
                                The initial point was VER is more than peer reviews...
                                 
                                Thanks and regards, Neil Potter
                                Cell/text: 972 418 9541
                                Fax: 866-526-4645
                                neil@...
                                http://www.processgroup.com
                                 
                                On Feb 25, 2013, at 7:10 AM, pact.otoole@... wrote:

                                 
                                 
                                 
                                Sonia,
                                 
                                I don’t think you have this quite right yet.  VERIFICATION is what your developers and testers do to ensure they meet the requirements.  This includes things like peer reviews, technical proofs of concept, technical prototypes, integration and system testing, etc.  Verification activities can be performed without any external intervention – no customer, user, or surrogate (someone like Product Management) need participate in these activities.
                                 
                                VALIDATION, on the other hand, adopts the customers’ and/or users’ perspective and addresses the question, “Can my people use this system in our environment to solve our problems (or to get the work done)?”  Almost by its very nature, validation benefits from external participation by the customer, user, or their surrogate.  This includes things like customer demos, user prototypes, storyboards, wireframes, workflow analysis, and user acceptance testing.
                                 
                                Verification ensures that we give them what they asked for.
                                 
                                Validation ensures that they DON’T say, “You gave me what I asked for but not what I wanted!”
                                 
                                Hope this helps,
                                 
                                Pat
                                 
                                 
                                From: Sonia
                                Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 3:25 AM
                                Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Verification and Validation
                                 
                                 

                                Hi Group,

                                The other day, my organization's CMMI are having a discussion on the techniques for verification and validation. There are confusions the techniques under each.

                                In my understanding : Verification is more of reviews,inspections, walkthroughs,demos etc. and Validation means unit testing, functional and non-functional testing, integration testing, acceptance test and system test.

                                I am not asking the difference between the two... just wanted to know the techniques that covers each aspect.

                                Please clarify.

                                Regards
                                Gurpreet

                                 
                                 
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