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Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] How about getting SEI as , CMMI L3 Appraised Institute?

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  • Henry Schneider | PPQC
    Dear William, As the SEI does not develop software, but delivers services, the CMMI-DEV doesn¹t really apply. That is why the SEI has not been appraised to
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 1, 2010
      Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] How about  getting  SEI  as , CMMI L3 Appraised Institute? Dear William,
      As the SEI does not develop software, but delivers services, the CMMI-DEV doesn’t really apply.  That is why the SEI has not been appraised to the CMMI.  However, others can correct me if I am wrong.  But it is my understanding that the SEI is now implementing the CMMI-SVC for the services it delivers.  At least that is what I think Eileen Forrester said at one of the meetings I’ve attended.  
      Obviously, by the SEI’s Conflict of Interest policy then, a CMMI-SVC Lead Appraiser external to the SEI organization being appraised would have to lead the appraisal team.
      Best Regards,
      Henry Schneider


      On 6/1/10 1:11 AM, "cloony.william" <cloony.william@...> wrote:


       
       
         

      Hi Friends,

      Its very hot in most part of the world, hence i thought of asking a cool Question.

      Why don't SEI uses its own model- CMMI for all its different products' development & its Services? Even for SEI project's & Program's management is crucial, and they have customer world over... If SEI goes for CMMI L3 Appraisal  it will be great for the user community and they can achieve their mission in a planned manner,  right?  

      Do any Lead Appraiser & SEI Partner feels, whether they can benefit if SEI gets CMMI L3 (defined Process)?

      In Such case, Who will appraise SEI? (sorry for such a hypothetical Question)

       
         




      Henry Schneider                                             SEI-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
      President/Senior Principal Consultant        SEI-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser  
      Work:  281-218-6682                                     SEI-Certified Intro to CMMI Instructor
      Mobile:  832-628-2486
      Email:  henry@...
      Process and Product Quality Consulting    http://www.ppqc.net
      PPQC Blog                                                       http://PPQC.blogspot.com

      Process and Product Quality Consulting      Facilitating your process journey ...






    • Patrick OToole
      William, The SEI does use its own models as the basis for improvement. They have undergone a formal People-CMM appraisal, and I have either conducted, or are
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 1, 2010
         
        William,
         
        The SEI does use its own models as the basis for improvement.  They have undergone a formal People-CMM appraisal, and I have either conducted, or are scheduled to conduct, a CMMI-SVC appraisal as well.
         
        Truth be known, they are pretty hard on themselves with respect to improving their products and services.  However, like many organizations, they are currently understaffed and over-committed.  This limits the amount they can do - and occasionally hampers their ability to do it extremely well.
         
        Be sure to provide them with the feedback they need as the basis for their ongoing improvement.  Don't just gripe behind their back - make sure that you send in the change request or speak with the management team when you have specific feedback about their products and services - it's the only way they can get insight into suboptimal performance.
         
        Regards,
         
        Pat
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 1:11 AM
        Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] How about getting SEI as , CMMI L3 Appraised Institute?

         

        Hi Friends,

        Its very hot in most part of the world, hence i thought of asking a cool Question.

        Why don't SEI uses its own model- CMMI for all its different products' development & its Services? Even for SEI project's & Program's management is crucial, and they have customer world over... If SEI goes for CMMI L3 Appraisal it will be great for the user community and they can achieve their mission in a planned manner, right?

        Do any Lead Appraiser & SEI Partner feels, whether they can benefit if SEI gets CMMI L3 (defined Process)?

        In Such case, Who will appraise SEI? (sorry for such a hypothetical Question)

      • Jeffrey Dalton
        William, It is my understanding that the SEI is actively working on this using CMMI-SVC. Jeff ... From: cloony.william Subject:
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 1, 2010
          William,

          It is my understanding that the SEI is actively working on this using CMMI-SVC.

          Jeff

          --- On Tue, 6/1/10, cloony.william <cloony.william@...> wrote:

          From: cloony.william <cloony.william@...>
          Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] How about getting SEI as , CMMI L3 Appraised Institute?
          To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, June 1, 2010, 2:11 AM

           

          Hi Friends,

          Its very hot in most part of the world, hence i thought of asking a cool Question.

          Why don't SEI uses its own model- CMMI for all its different products' development & its Services? Even for SEI project's & Program's management is crucial, and they have customer world over... If SEI goes for CMMI L3 Appraisal it will be great for the user community and they can achieve their mission in a planned manner, right?

          Do any Lead Appraiser & SEI Partner feels, whether they can benefit if SEI gets CMMI L3 (defined Process)?

          In Such case, Who will appraise SEI? (sorry for such a hypothetical Question)

        • ahmedkhudre
          Dear Henry, I totally agree with you that internal SEI LA will have a conflict of interest if he leads SEI Appraisal. But what about external LA who will after
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 1, 2010
            Dear Henry,

            I totally agree with you that internal SEI LA will have a conflict of interest if he leads SEI Appraisal. But what about external LA who will after the appraisal be audited by SEI? Does not he have a coflict of interest? I think he has!

            Thanks
            Ahmed Abd El Aziz
            SEI-Certified LA for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC

            --- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, Henry Schneider | PPQC <henry@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear William,
            > As the SEI does not develop software, but delivers services, the CMMI-DEV
            > doesn¹t really apply. That is why the SEI has not been appraised to the
            > CMMI. However, others can correct me if I am wrong. But it is my
            > understanding that the SEI is now implementing the CMMI-SVC for the services
            > it delivers. At least that is what I think Eileen Forrester said at one of
            > the meetings I¹ve attended.
            > Obviously, by the SEI¹s Conflict of Interest policy then, a CMMI-SVC Lead
            > Appraiser external to the SEI organization being appraised would have to
            > lead the appraisal team.
            > Best Regards,
            > Henry Schneider
            >
            >
            > On 6/1/10 1:11 AM, "cloony.william" <cloony.william@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Friends,
            > >
            > > Its very hot in most part of the world, hence i thought of asking a cool
            > > Question.
            > >
            > > Why don't SEI uses its own model- CMMI for all its different products'
            > > development & its Services? Even for SEI project's & Program's management is
            > > crucial, and they have customer world over... If SEI goes for CMMI L3
            > > Appraisal it will be great for the user community and they can achieve their
            > > mission in a planned manner, right?
            > >
            > > Do any Lead Appraiser & SEI Partner feels, whether they can benefit if SEI
            > > gets CMMI L3 (defined Process)?
            > >
            > > In Such case, Who will appraise SEI? (sorry for such a hypothetical Question)
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > Henry Schneider SEI-Certified
            > SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
            > President/Senior Principal Consultant SEI-Certified High Maturity
            > Lead Appraiser
            > Work: 281-218-6682 SEI-Certified Intro
            > to CMMI Instructor
            > Mobile: 832-628-2486
            > Email: henry@...
            > Process and Product Quality Consulting http://www.ppqc.net
            > PPQC Blog
            > http://PPQC.blogspot.com
            >
            > Process and Product Quality Consulting Facilitating your process
            > journey ...
            >
          • mphil15215
            William, Several of our partner professionals have commented already, but I thought I would confirm that the SEI is engaged in applying two of its models to
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 2, 2010
              William,

              Several of our partner professionals have commented already, but I thought I would confirm that the SEI is engaged in applying two of its models to itself. For the broad needs for the SEI, the People CMM is the best model for an organization whose "working capital" is in its knowledge workers. We performed a SCAMPI "B" upon ourselves and are now pursuing action plans on the various opportunities to improve our leadership of our people.

              The professionals who often contribute here are part of our SEI Partner network, and elements of the SEI do provide a variety of services to the folks who amplify our ability to reach the various communities around the world who use CMMI, TSP, our measurement capabilities, and now our architecture and security elements. We plan a similar process improvement journey using CMMI-SVC for elements of the SEI, though in a more targeted use than the P-CMM. We have begun by providing the new CMMI-SVC Intro course to a few internal teams. We are initiating some of the process improvement elements based on the model already. Timing for an initial appraisal has not been determined yet, but involving an external lead appraiser, even for the SCAMPI B, is in the current thinking.

              As other posts have noted, many of these professionals volunteer their time to answer a wide range of questions. Often these are discussed in the various CMMI courses that most of them teach. Since I note that you are not listed in our records as having attended any CMMI courses, you might wish to try one with one of these professionals.

              Cheers,
              Mike Phillips
              CMMI Program Manager

              --- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Dalton <jeff@...> wrote:
              >
              > William,
              > It is my understanding that the SEI is actively working on this using CMMI-SVC.
              > Jeff
              >
              > --- On Tue, 6/1/10, cloony.william <cloony.william@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: cloony.william <cloony.william@...>
              > Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] How about getting SEI as , CMMI L3 Appraised Institute?
              > To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Tuesday, June 1, 2010, 2:11 AM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Friends,
              >
              >
              >
              > Its very hot in most part of the world, hence i thought of asking a cool Question.
              >
              >
              >
              > Why don't SEI uses its own model- CMMI for all its different products' development & its Services? Even for SEI project's & Program's management is crucial, and they have customer world over... If SEI goes for CMMI L3 Appraisal it will be great for the user community and they can achieve their mission in a planned manner, right?
              >
              >
              >
              > Do any Lead Appraiser & SEI Partner feels, whether they can benefit if SEI gets CMMI L3 (defined Process)?
              >
              >
              >
              > In Such case, Who will appraise SEI? (sorry for such a hypothetical Question)
              >
            • Henry Schneider | PPQC
              Not at all! Lead Appraisers are not routinely audited by the SEI. The SEI has QA criteria for each submitted appraisal. The SEI applies this criteria to
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 2, 2010
                Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: How about  getting  SEI  as , CMMI L3 Appraised Institute? Not at all!  Lead Appraisers are not routinely audited by the SEI.  The SEI has QA criteria for each submitted appraisal.  The SEI applies this criteria to determine if it is necessary to audit the Lead Appraiser’s appraisal results.  There is also an appeals process that involves external Lead Appraisers.
                The only Conflict of Interest that I can see is if the SEI QA group was the organization being appraised and then they audited the Lead Appraiser who led the appraisal team.
                As long as the Lead Appraiser does his or her job properly according to the MDD, then there shouldn’t be any concerns about a Conflict of Interest on the part of the Lead Appraiser.
                Best Regards,
                Henry Schneider


                On 6/1/10 9:11 PM, "ahmedkhudre" <aaziz@...> wrote:


                 
                 
                   

                Dear Henry,

                I totally agree with you that internal SEI LA will have a conflict of interest if he leads SEI Appraisal. But what about external LA who will after the appraisal be audited by SEI? Does not he have a coflict of interest? I think he has!

                Thanks
                Ahmed Abd El Aziz
                SEI-Certified LA for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC

                --- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement%40yahoogroups.com> , Henry Schneider | PPQC <henry@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear William,
                > As the SEI does not develop software, but delivers services, the CMMI-DEV
                > doesn’t really apply.  That is why the SEI has not been appraised to the
                > CMMI.  However, others can correct me if I am wrong.  But it is my
                > understanding that the SEI is now implementing the CMMI-SVC for the services
                > it delivers.  At least that is what I think Eileen Forrester said at one of
                > the meetings I’ve attended.
                > Obviously, by the SEI’s Conflict of Interest policy then, a CMMI-SVC Lead
                > Appraiser external to the SEI organization being appraised would have to
                > lead the appraisal team.
                > Best Regards,
                > Henry Schneider
                >
                >
                > On 6/1/10 1:11 AM, "cloony.william" <cloony.william@...> wrote:
                >
                > >  
                > >  
                > >  
                > >    
                > >
                > > Hi Friends,
                > >
                > > Its very hot in most part of the world, hence i thought of asking a cool
                > > Question.
                > >
                > > Why don't SEI uses its own model- CMMI for all its different products'
                > > development & its Services? Even for SEI project's & Program's management is
                > > crucial, and they have customer world over... If SEI goes for CMMI L3
                > > Appraisal  it will be great for the user community and they can achieve their
                > > mission in a planned manner,  right?
                > >
                > > Do any Lead Appraiser & SEI Partner feels, whether they can benefit if SEI
                > > gets CMMI L3 (defined Process)?
                > >
                > > In Such case, Who will appraise SEI? (sorry for such a hypothetical Question)
                > >
                > >  
                > >    
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > Henry Schneider                                             SEI-Certified
                > SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
                > President/Senior Principal Consultant        SEI-Certified High Maturity
                > Lead Appraiser  
                > Work:  281-218-6682                                     SEI-Certified Intro
                > to CMMI Instructor
                > Mobile:  832-628-2486
                > Email:  henry@...
                > Process and Product Quality Consulting    http://www.ppqc.net
                > PPQC Blog          
                > http://PPQC.blogspot.com
                >
                > Process and Product Quality Consulting      Facilitating your process
                > journey ...
                >

                 
                   




                Henry Schneider                                             SEI-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
                President/Senior Principal Consultant        SEI-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser  
                Work:  281-218-6682                                     SEI-Certified Intro to CMMI Instructor
                Mobile:  832-628-2486
                Email:  henry@...
                Process and Product Quality Consulting    http://www.ppqc.net
                PPQC Blog                                                       http://PPQC.blogspot.com

                Process and Product Quality Consulting      Facilitating your process journey ...






              • Mike Phillips
                Folks, First, the SEI s plan for a benchmark CMMI-SVC A appraisal will use a certified lead appraiser from outside the appraised organization, as Henry
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 3, 2010

                  Folks,

                   

                  First, the SEI’s plan for a benchmark  CMMI-SVC  “A” appraisal will use a certified lead appraiser from outside the appraised organization, as Henry says below. The issues associated with conflicts of interest, however, seem to merit some discussion in this forum.

                   

                  I feel that we may need to remind ourselves what these models are for – process improvement.  Because, in addition, the resultant achievements have been used for various commercial (marketing) reasons as a quality benchmark, the notion of a “conflict of interest” gains in importance. Many organizations use internal lead appraisers to gauge progress of their organization’s process improvement journey. No one demands an external lead appraiser for these. Long ago I noted that a particular internal lead appraiser assigned in a large aerospace company would be more likely to find weaknesses in the organization than an external lead appraiser being paid by the sponsor in the appraised unit. The external lead appraiser inevitably wants to satisfy the customer, and often is being encouraged to be so efficient to hold down costs that opportunities for improvement may not get high attention. Please also recall that while the lead appraiser must be external to the appraised organization, the LA does not have to be from a different company. (Often companies choose external LAs to avoid the “perceptions issue.”)

                   

                  The discussion below associated with audits merits a brief mention. A few months ago another post questioned whether an independent review group of three lead appraisers asked to evaluate the SEI’s determination of an “adverse decision” on an appraisal could avoid a similar conflict of interest. The perception that the presence of an audit function in the organization being appraised  would cause a conflict of interest is at least a similar issue. Perhaps some of the experts in this group could provide some counsel on how we might best address these.

                   

                  Cheers,

                  Mike Phillips

                  CMMI Program Manager

                   

                   

                   

                  From: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ahmedkhudre
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 10:12 PM
                  To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: How about getting SEI as , CMMI L3 Appraised Institute?

                   

                   

                  Dear Henry,

                  I totally agree with you that internal SEI LA will have a conflict of interest if he leads SEI Appraisal. But what about external LA who will after the appraisal be audited by SEI? Does not he have a coflict of interest? I think he has!

                  Thanks
                  Ahmed Abd El Aziz
                  SEI-Certified LA for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC

                  --- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, Henry Schneider | PPQC <henry@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Dear William,
                  > As the SEI does not develop software, but delivers services, the CMMI-DEV
                  > doesn¹t really apply. That is why the SEI has not been appraised to the
                  > CMMI. However, others can correct me if I am wrong. But it is my
                  > understanding that the SEI is now implementing the CMMI-SVC for the
                  services
                  > it delivers. At least that is what I think Eileen Forrester said at one of
                  > the meetings I¹ve attended.
                  > Obviously, by the SEI¹s Conflict of Interest policy then, a CMMI-SVC Lead
                  > Appraiser external to the SEI organization being appraised would have to
                  > lead the appraisal team.
                  > Best Regards,
                  > Henry Schneider
                  >
                  >
                  > On 6/1/10 1:11 AM, "cloony.william" <cloony.william@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi Friends,
                  > >
                  > > Its very hot in most part of the world, hence i thought of asking a
                  cool
                  > > Question.
                  > >
                  > > Why don't SEI uses its own model- CMMI for all its different
                  products'
                  > > development & its Services? Even for SEI project's &
                  Program's management is
                  > > crucial, and they have customer world over... If SEI goes for CMMI L3
                  > > Appraisal it will be great for the user community and they can
                  achieve their
                  > > mission in a planned manner, right?
                  > >
                  > > Do any Lead Appraiser & SEI Partner feels, whether they can
                  benefit if SEI
                  > > gets CMMI L3 (defined Process)?
                  > >
                  > > In Such case, Who will appraise SEI? (sorry for such a hypothetical
                  Question)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > Henry Schneider SEI-Certified
                  > SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
                  > President/Senior Principal Consultant SEI-Certified High Maturity
                  > Lead Appraiser
                  > Work: 281-218-6682 SEI-Certified Intro
                  > to CMMI Instructor
                  > Mobile: 832-628-2486
                  > Email: henry@...
                  > Process and Product Quality Consulting http://www.ppqc.net
                  > PPQC Blog
                  > http://PPQC.blogspot.com
                  >
                  > Process and Product Quality Consulting Facilitating your process
                  > journey ...
                  >

                • Jeff Dalton - Broadsword
                  Mike, Your thoughtful response fits well within the mainstream of the purpose and philosophy of the CMMI . . . at least my understanding of it! An appraisal
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 3, 2010

                    Mike,

                     

                    Your thoughtful response fits well within the mainstream of the purpose and philosophy of the CMMI . . . at least my understanding of it!  An appraisal is not an audit!

                     

                    I think the challenge here is not one of traditional “conflict of interest” but more about the level of influence and thought leadership that the SEI has over the entire LA community.  The SEI often intervenes with clarifications of interpretation (something it should do and usually does pretty well).  Would it be outside the realm of possibility that during some of the ATMs discussion about Goal satisfaction some internal team members of SEI experts (you will use internal team members I would assume) would want to “correct” the LA’s interpretation?   The problem isn’t whether or not the org achieved MLx, it’s more about whether actual weaknesses and strengths really are being identified.

                     

                    Perhaps if the ATMs were not from the “CMMI side of the house” this problem could be alleviated.  And perhaps the LA you select should not be one that is a visiting scientist or other closely related professional.  There are many to choose from!

                     

                     

                    Warm Regards,

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    Jeff Dalton, President

                    Broadsword

                     

                    Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser

                    Certified "Introduction to CMMI" Instructor

                    Certified "CMMI Maturity Level 2 for Practitioners" Instructor

                    SCAMPI Team Leader Observer

                    SEI Partner Advisory Board Member

                     

                    248.341.3367 (office)

                    248.709.4775 (cell)

                    248.341.3672 (fax)

                     

                     

                    broadswordlogo.tif

                     

                    Visit our website at http://www.broadswordsolutions.com

                     

                    Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCMMIAppraiser.com

                     

                    Follow Jeff on Twitter @CMMIAppraiser

                     

                    From: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Phillips
                    Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:25 AM
                    To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: How about getting SEI as , CMMI L3 Appraised Institute?

                     

                     

                    Folks,

                     

                    First, the SEI’s plan for a benchmark  CMMI-SVC  “A” appraisal will use a certified lead appraiser from outside the appraised organization, as Henry says below. The issues associated with conflicts of interest, however, seem to merit some discussion in this forum.

                     

                    I feel that we may need to remind ourselves what these models are for – process improvement.  Because, in addition, the resultant achievements have been used for various commercial (marketing) reasons as a quality benchmark, the notion of a “conflict of interest” gains in importance. Many organizations use internal lead appraisers to gauge progress of their organization’s process improvement journey. No one demands an external lead appraiser for these. Long ago I noted that a particular internal lead appraiser assigned in a large aerospace company would be more likely to find weaknesses in the organization than an external lead appraiser being paid by the sponsor in the appraised unit. The external lead appraiser inevitably wants to satisfy the customer, and often is being encouraged to be so efficient to hold down costs that opportunities for improvement may not get high attention. Please also recall that while the lead appraiser must be external to the appraised organization, the LA does not have to be from a different company. (Often companies choose external LAs to avoid the “perceptions issue.”)

                     

                    The discussion below associated with audits merits a brief mention. A few months ago another post questioned whether an independent review group of three lead appraisers asked to evaluate the SEI’s determination of an “adverse decision” on an appraisal could avoid a similar conflict of interest. The perception that the presence of an audit function in the organization being appraised  would cause a conflict of interest is at least a similar issue. Perhaps some of the experts in this group could provide some counsel on how we might best address these.

                     

                    Cheers,

                    Mike Phillips

                    CMMI Program Manager

                     

                     

                     

                    From: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ahmedkhudre
                    Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 10:12 PM
                    To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: How about getting SEI as , CMMI L3 Appraised Institute?

                     

                     

                    Dear Henry,

                    I totally agree with you that internal SEI LA will have a conflict of interest if he leads SEI Appraisal. But what about external LA who will after the appraisal be audited by SEI? Does not he have a coflict of interest? I think he has!

                    Thanks
                    Ahmed Abd El Aziz
                    SEI-Certified LA for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC

                    --- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, Henry Schneider | PPQC <henry@...> wrote:

                    >
                    > Dear William,
                    > As the SEI does not develop software, but delivers services, the CMMI-DEV
                    > doesn¹t really apply. That is why the SEI has not been appraised to the
                    > CMMI. However, others can correct me if I am wrong. But it is my
                    > understanding that the SEI is now implementing the CMMI-SVC for the
                    services
                    > it delivers. At least that is what I think Eileen Forrester said at one of
                    > the meetings I¹ve attended.
                    > Obviously, by the SEI¹s Conflict of Interest policy then, a CMMI-SVC Lead
                    > Appraiser external to the SEI organization being appraised would have to
                    > lead the appraisal team.
                    > Best Regards,
                    > Henry Schneider
                    >
                    >
                    > On 6/1/10 1:11 AM, "cloony.william" <cloony.william@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hi Friends,
                    > >
                    > > Its very hot in most part of the world, hence i thought of asking a
                    cool
                    > > Question.
                    > >
                    > > Why don't SEI uses its own model- CMMI for all its different
                    products'
                    > > development & its Services? Even for SEI project's &
                    Program's management is
                    > > crucial, and they have customer world over... If SEI goes for CMMI L3
                    > > Appraisal it will be great for the user community and they can
                    achieve their
                    > > mission in a planned manner, right?
                    > >
                    > > Do any Lead Appraiser & SEI Partner feels, whether they can
                    benefit if SEI
                    > > gets CMMI L3 (defined Process)?
                    > >
                    > > In Such case, Who will appraise SEI? (sorry for such a hypothetical
                    Question)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > Henry Schneider SEI-Certified
                    > SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
                    > President/Senior Principal Consultant SEI-Certified High Maturity
                    > Lead Appraiser
                    > Work: 281-218-6682 SEI-Certified Intro
                    > to CMMI Instructor
                    > Mobile: 832-628-2486
                    > Email: henry@...
                    > Process and Product Quality Consulting http://www.ppqc.net
                    > PPQC Blog
                    > http://PPQC.blogspot.com
                    >
                    > Process and Product Quality Consulting Facilitating your process
                    > journey ...
                    >

                  • Mike Phillips
                    Jeff, Thanks for the thoughtful response. We have talked at the Partner Advisory Board about creating some mechanism to share clarifying approaches - from
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 4, 2010

                      Jeff,

                       

                      Thanks for the thoughtful response. We have talked at the Partner Advisory Board about creating some mechanism  to share clarifying approaches – from many directions. In the early days of CMMI, much “clarification” was around the inclusion of systems engineering concepts that had not been included in the SW-CMM – at least not in the same way. (Some of the recent discussions in this group about “data management” were of a similar nature. ) Today we find ourselves stretched to acknowledge the different “business rhythm” and terminology “issues” (like “projects”) in the CMMI-SVC community of interest.

                       

                      To date, the FAQ approach , Pat’s “ATLAS” approach, and this forum have been the best sources of clarifying information beyond conference gatherings. If someone can think of a way to move toward the “case law” like idea, many of us feel it might be useful….

                       

                      Cheers,

                      Mike Phillips

                      CMMI Program Manager

                       

                      From: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Dalton - Broadsword
                      Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:04 PM
                      To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: How about getting SEI as , CMMI L3 Appraised Institute?

                       

                       

                      Mike,

                       

                      Your thoughtful response fits well within the mainstream of the purpose and philosophy of the CMMI . . . at least my understanding of it!  An appraisal is not an audit!

                       

                      I think the challenge here is not one of traditional “conflict of interest” but more about the level of influence and thought leadership that the SEI has over the entire LA community.  The SEI often intervenes with clarifications of interpretation (something it should do and usually does pretty well).  Would it be outside the realm of possibility that during some of the ATMs discussion about Goal satisfaction some internal team members of SEI experts (you will use internal team members I would assume) would want to “correct” the LA’s interpretation?   The problem isn’t whether or not the org achieved MLx, it’s more about whether actual weaknesses and strengths really are being identified.

                       

                      Perhaps if the ATMs were not from the “CMMI side of the house” this problem could be alleviated.  And perhaps the LA you select should not be one that is a visiting scientist or other closely related professional.  There are many to choose from!

                       

                       

                      Warm Regards,

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      Jeff Dalton, President

                      Broadsword

                       

                      Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser

                      Certified "Introduction to CMMI" Instructor

                      Certified "CMMI Maturity Level 2 for Practitioners" Instructor

                      SCAMPI Team Leader Observer

                      SEI Partner Advisory Board Member

                       

                      248.341.3367 (office)

                      248.709.4775 (cell)

                      248.341.3672 (fax)

                       

                       

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                      Visit our website at http://www.broadswordsolutions.com

                       

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                      From: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Phillips
                      Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:25 AM
                      To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: How about getting SEI as , CMMI L3 Appraised Institute?

                       

                       

                      Folks,

                       

                      First, the SEI’s plan for a benchmark  CMMI-SVC  “A” appraisal will use a certified lead appraiser from outside the appraised organization, as Henry says below. The issues associated with conflicts of interest, however, seem to merit some discussion in this forum.

                       

                      I feel that we may need to remind ourselves what these models are for – process improvement.  Because, in addition, the resultant achievements have been used for various commercial (marketing) reasons as a quality benchmark, the notion of a “conflict of interest” gains in importance. Many organizations use internal lead appraisers to gauge progress of their organization’s process improvement journey. No one demands an external lead appraiser for these. Long ago I noted that a particular internal lead appraiser assigned in a large aerospace company would be more likely to find weaknesses in the organization than an external lead appraiser being paid by the sponsor in the appraised unit. The external lead appraiser inevitably wants to satisfy the customer, and often is being encouraged to be so efficient to hold down costs that opportunities for improvement may not get high attention. Please also recall that while the lead appraiser must be external to the appraised organization, the LA does not have to be from a different company. (Often companies choose external LAs to avoid the “perceptions issue.”)

                       

                      The discussion below associated with audits merits a brief mention. A few months ago another post questioned whether an independent review group of three lead appraisers asked to evaluate the SEI’s determination of an “adverse decision” on an appraisal could avoid a similar conflict of interest. The perception that the presence of an audit function in the organization being appraised  would cause a conflict of interest is at least a similar issue. Perhaps some of the experts in this group could provide some counsel on how we might best address these.

                       

                      Cheers,

                      Mike Phillips

                      CMMI Program Manager

                       

                       

                       

                      From: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ahmedkhudre
                      Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 10:12 PM
                      To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: How about getting SEI as , CMMI L3 Appraised Institute?

                       

                       

                      Dear Henry,

                      I totally agree with you that internal SEI LA will have a conflict of interest if he leads SEI Appraisal. But what about external LA who will after the appraisal be audited by SEI? Does not he have a coflict of interest? I think he has!

                      Thanks
                      Ahmed Abd El Aziz
                      SEI-Certified LA for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC

                      --- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, Henry Schneider | PPQC <henry@...> wrote:

                      >
                      > Dear William,
                      > As the SEI does not develop software, but delivers services, the CMMI-DEV
                      > doesn¹t really apply. That is why the SEI has not been appraised to the
                      > CMMI. However, others can correct me if I am wrong. But it is my
                      > understanding that the SEI is now implementing the CMMI-SVC for the
                      services
                      > it delivers. At least that is what I think Eileen Forrester said at one of
                      > the meetings I¹ve attended.
                      > Obviously, by the SEI¹s Conflict of Interest policy then, a CMMI-SVC Lead
                      > Appraiser external to the SEI organization being appraised would have to
                      > lead the appraisal team.
                      > Best Regards,
                      > Henry Schneider
                      >
                      >
                      > On 6/1/10 1:11 AM, "cloony.william" <cloony.william@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hi Friends,
                      > >
                      > > Its very hot in most part of the world, hence i thought of asking a
                      cool
                      > > Question.
                      > >
                      > > Why don't SEI uses its own model- CMMI for all its different
                      products'
                      > > development & its Services? Even for SEI project's &
                      Program's management is
                      > > crucial, and they have customer world over... If SEI goes for CMMI L3
                      > > Appraisal it will be great for the user community and they can
                      achieve their
                      > > mission in a planned manner, right?
                      > >
                      > > Do any Lead Appraiser & SEI Partner feels, whether they can
                      benefit if SEI
                      > > gets CMMI L3 (defined Process)?
                      > >
                      > > In Such case, Who will appraise SEI? (sorry for such a hypothetical
                      Question)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > Henry Schneider SEI-Certified
                      > SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
                      > President/Senior Principal Consultant SEI-Certified High Maturity
                      > Lead Appraiser
                      > Work: 281-218-6682 SEI-Certified Intro
                      > to CMMI Instructor
                      > Mobile: 832-628-2486
                      > Email: henry@...
                      > Process and Product Quality Consulting http://www.ppqc.net
                      > PPQC Blog
                      > http://PPQC.blogspot.com
                      >
                      > Process and Product Quality Consulting Facilitating your process
                      > journey ...
                      >

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