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AW: [CMMI Process improvement] Function Point and PSM Workshops

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  • Gerold Keefer
    hi all, is this an advertising channel or a cmmi mailing list? to be a bit productive, too, here is an interesting article if found at stickyminds It s the
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 1, 2002
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      hi all,

      is this an advertising channel or a cmmi
      mailing list?

      to be a bit productive, too, here is an
      interesting article if found at stickyminds
      "It's the End of QA as We Know It, and I Feel Fine",
      http://www.stickyminds.com/docs_index/XUS1699487file1.pdf .

      is after-the-fact QA outdated (and some parts of the CMMI
      as well)?
      as i look at my current work environment i see strong
      indications.

      regards,

      gerold



      -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
      Von: Bill Hufschmidt [mailto:B.Hufschmidt@...]
      Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. August 2002 15:46
      An: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
      Betreff: RE: [CMMI Process improvement] Function Point and PSM Workshops


      "I can estimate any project in two minutes, sight unseen, with a guarantee,
      as early in the life cycle as gleam in the boss's eye."

      Attached are some slides from an Estimating seminar I do. It would probably
      take one-two weeks to set up for you. Give me a call and I can explain.
      262-789-9190.
    • Paul Thompson
      I did think that this article by Kenneth Haas was an excellent treatment of the advantages of integrating the QA function throughout the product life cycle,
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 3, 2002
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        I did think that this article by Kenneth Haas was an
        excellent treatment of the advantages of integrating
        the QA function throughout the product life cycle, and
        posted it in the Files section here as QA_Integ.pdf.
        What I don't understand is your reference to outdating
        portions of the CMMI, since the model appears to
        strongly encourage QA participation throughout the
        product life cycle to contain errors within phase. For
        that matter, the original CMM by Mark Paulk et al was
        built around the principles of TQM and Crosby's
        "Quality is Free" supposition, and Mike Phillips
        statements here earlier regarding CMMI extension to
        all engineering-related disciplines certainly don't
        preclude QA.

        This approach described by Kenneth Haas would be
        fairly revolutionary to the approach historically
        implemented in some product-oriented organizations,
        where the quality inspector with rubber stamp in hand
        forms the ultimate representation of 'process police'.
        Extending the QA presence to the marketing world
        sounds like a great idea, selling it to the concept
        sales people would be a challenge....

        Paul Thompson
        Software Manager

        --- Gerold Keefer <gkeefer@...> wrote:
        > hi all,
        >
        > is this an advertising channel or a cmmi
        > mailing list?
        >
        > to be a bit productive, too, here is an
        > interesting article if found at stickyminds
        > "It's the End of QA as We Know It, and I Feel Fine",
        >
        http://www.stickyminds.com/docs_index/XUS1699487file1.pdf
        > .
        >
        > is after-the-fact QA outdated (and some parts of the
        > CMMI
        > as well)?
        > as i look at my current work environment i see
        > strong
        > indications.
        >
        > regards,
        >
        > gerold
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
        > Von: Bill Hufschmidt
        > [mailto:B.Hufschmidt@...]
        > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. August 2002 15:46
        > An: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
        > Betreff: RE: [CMMI Process improvement] Function
        > Point and PSM Workshops
        >
        >
        > "I can estimate any project in two minutes, sight
        > unseen, with a guarantee,
        > as early in the life cycle as gleam in the boss's
        > eye."
        >
        > Attached are some slides from an Estimating seminar
        > I do. It would probably
        > take one-two weeks to set up for you. Give me a
        > call and I can explain.
        > 262-789-9190.
        >
        >
        >
        >


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      • Mike Phillips
        Paul, I also thought Kenneth Haas article was provocative and share your curiousity about what parts of CMMI might be outdated from Gerold s perspective. It
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 3, 2002
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          Paul,
          I also thought Kenneth Haas' article was provocative and share your
          curiousity about what parts of CMMI might be "outdated" from Gerold's
          perspective. It was certainly our intention to encourage QA across the life
          cycle. The only two "changes" were first to include emphasis on product as
          well as process (PPQA) and then to use the adjective "objective" rather than
          "independent" for the efforts, so that we were not driving organizational
          structure answers rather than "behaviors." I would also add that our
          experience with Personal Software Process has shown the similar effect that
          Haas notes -- quality in "up front" reduces "time to market" by allowing much
          reduced test and integration time.
          Cheers,
          Mike Phillips

          Paul Thompson wrote:

          > I did think that this article by Kenneth Haas was an
          > excellent treatment of the advantages of integrating
          > the QA function throughout the product life cycle, and
          > posted it in the Files section here as QA_Integ.pdf.
          > What I don't understand is your reference to outdating
          > portions of the CMMI, since the model appears to
          > strongly encourage QA participation throughout the
          > product life cycle to contain errors within phase. For
          > that matter, the original CMM by Mark Paulk et al was
          > built around the principles of TQM and Crosby's
          > "Quality is Free" supposition, and Mike Phillips
          > statements here earlier regarding CMMI extension to
          > all engineering-related disciplines certainly don't
          > preclude QA.
          >
          > This approach described by Kenneth Haas would be
          > fairly revolutionary to the approach historically
          > implemented in some product-oriented organizations,
          > where the quality inspector with rubber stamp in hand
          > forms the ultimate representation of 'process police'.
          > Extending the QA presence to the marketing world
          > sounds like a great idea, selling it to the concept
          > sales people would be a challenge....
          >
          > Paul Thompson
          > Software Manager
          >
          > --- Gerold Keefer <gkeefer@...> wrote:
          > > hi all,
          > >
          > > is this an advertising channel or a cmmi
          > > mailing list?
          > >
          > > to be a bit productive, too, here is an
          > > interesting article if found at stickyminds
          > > "It's the End of QA as We Know It, and I Feel Fine",
          > >
          > http://www.stickyminds.com/docs_index/XUS1699487file1.pdf
          > > .
          > >
          > > is after-the-fact QA outdated (and some parts of the
          > > CMMI
          > > as well)?
          > > as i look at my current work environment i see
          > > strong
          > > indications.
          > >
          > > regards,
          > >
          > > gerold
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
          > > Von: Bill Hufschmidt
          > > [mailto:B.Hufschmidt@...]
          > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. August 2002 15:46
          > > An: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
          > > Betreff: RE: [CMMI Process improvement] Function
          > > Point and PSM Workshops
          > >
          > >
          > > "I can estimate any project in two minutes, sight
          > > unseen, with a guarantee,
          > > as early in the life cycle as gleam in the boss's
          > > eye."
          > >
          > > Attached are some slides from an Estimating seminar
          > > I do. It would probably
          > > take one-two weeks to set up for you. Give me a
          > > call and I can explain.
          > > 262-789-9190.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
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