Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: "Puzzle" solved by uncertainty

Expand Messages
  • alexi0800
    Walt, ... It does not look as you have grasped the concept at all, since the above statement contains at least THREE factual errors. First, no controlled
    Message 1 of 44 , Oct 15, 2008
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Walt,


      --- In climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com, you wrote:
      >
      > AGW is not simple, but there are basics which can be grasped:
      >
      > - CO2 has been shown in laboratory conditions to increase radiative
      > forcing at the surface.
      >


      It does not look as you have grasped the concept at all, since the above
      statement contains at least THREE factual errors.

      First, no controlled laboratory experiments have been conducted at the
      scale of 70,000 meters long, with varying air density and a special
      temperature profile.

      Second, the AGW theory alleges that the "forcing" occurs at the top of
      atmosphere, not at the surface. The actual amount of "forcing at the
      surface" is a subject of heated debates because many non-trivial factors
      are acting at the surface.

      Third, the "forcing" cannot be possibly ever observed in laboratory
      conditions because the definition of forcing contains three physically
      unrealizable conditions: (a) CO2 mixes up, but temperature profile
      stays the same, (b) stratospheric cooling equilibrates with tropopause
      conditions before troposphere does, and (c) troposphere-surface
      interface is kept frozen. None of these conditions can possibly exist,
      and therefore the whole concept of "forcing", expecially the claim that
      is is accurately calculated to be 3.7 W/m2, is highly dubious.

      It is really amazing how it is possible to make three brutal mistakes in
      a statement of 10 words long.

      Cheers,

      - Alexi
    • bobmagi@att.net
      Rich, Worldwide? Did he say World Temperatures.... ? No, he said Northern Hemisphere Temperatures During the Past Millennium: Inferences, Uncertainties, and
      Message 44 of 44 , Oct 16, 2008
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Rich,

        Worldwide? Did he say
        "World Temperatures...."?

        No, he said "Northern Hemisphere Temperatures During the Past Millennium: Inferences, Uncertainties, and Limitations"

        And was it only from North American tree rings?

        Bob
        -------------- Original message ----------------------
        From: m1aport@...
        >
        >
        LOL... it seems that the AGW proponents were doing exactly what you complained
        about t Ian, Bob. The Realclimate boobs used mainly North American data and
        > extrapolated them to world wide conditions. Unbelievable...
        >
        > http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4095
        >
        > Rich
        >
        >
        >
        > -------------- Original message ----------------------
        > From: bobmagi@...
        > >
        > > Ian,
        > >
        > > Earth Surface area, 510,072,000 km²
        > >
        > > USA surface area 9,632,030 km²
        > >
        > > So what is the point of comparing US temps to World temps, when the US is less
        > > than 2% of the surface area of the World?
        > >
        > > Bob
        > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
        > > From: "Ian L. McQueen" <imcqueen@...>
        > > >
        > > > For comparison:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > DOC > NOAA > NESDIS > NCDC Search Field:
        > > > Climate Monitoring / Climate At A Glance / UNITED STATES / Help
        > > >
        > > > UNITED STATES
        > > > Climate Summary
        > > > September 2008
        > > >
        > > > The average temperature in September 2008 was 65.8 F. This was
        > > > 0.4 F warmer than the 1901-2000 (20th century) average, the 49th warmest
        > > > September in 114 years. The temperature trend for the period of record (1895
        > > > to present) is 0.1 degrees Fahrenheit per decade.
        > > >
        > > > 2.68 inches of precipitation fell in September. This was 0.20
        > > > inches more than the 1901-2000 average, the 38th wettest such month on
        > > > record. The precipitation trend for the period of record (1895 to present)
        > > > is 0.02 inches per decade.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: <bobmagi@...>
        > > > To: <climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com>
        > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:39 PM
        > > > Subject: [climatechangedebate] September in Historical Perspective
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Climate of 2008
        > > > September in Historical Perspective
        > > > National Climatic Data Center
        > > > 15 October 2008
        > > >
        > > > Based on preliminary data, the globally averaged combined land and sea
        > > > surface temperature was the ninth warmest on record for September and for
        > > > the January-September year-to-date period.
        > > >
        > > > http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2008/sep/global.html
        > > >
        > > > Bob
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.