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Re: [classicrv] Re: 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis

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  • Bill Miller
    Actually Jack, you are partially correct.Die Hard batteries are made by Johnson Controls. The same people make 80% of all the batteries. They make batteries
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 19, 2013
      Actually Jack, you are partially correct.Die Hard batteries are made by Johnson Controls. The same people make 80% of all the batteries. They make batteries for Wal-Mart  right alongside of the Die Hard made for SEARS.

      mainiac bill




      ________________________________
      From: orioneer <JosephusMinimus@...>
      To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:15 AM
      Subject: [classicrv] Re: 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis



       


      Bill - Unless they've changed what they do, DIE HARD uses the same
      plates and separaters in the cells as all the other medium-to-high
      priced batteries. Probably the internal components are all manufactured
      in the same factory in China or somewhere, sold to all the battery
      manufacturing plants of all brands, same components.

      All DIE HARD did to make the batteries hotter was lower the PH of the
      acid, giving it further to go before it loses everything.

      The only problem was the lower PH reduces the life of the plates more
      quickly than happens with a higher PH. Lowering the PH without
      thickening the plates equals plates eaten from zero-to-sixty a lot
      sooner than a person might wish.

      Just saying. Jack

      --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Bill Miller wrote:
      >
      > I don't know what kind of batteries you have seen or where in
      stores,but I have several rental boats and several trolling motors.I use
      DIE HARD batteries EXCLUSIVELY . I use deep cycle for the trolling
      motors and regular marine starting batteries for the rental boats. I
      have never seen a deep cycle labeled as a Marine Starting battery, and I
      have never seen a Marine Starting battery labeled as DEEP CYCLE.
      >
      > mainiac bill
      >




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Wncol2004
      I have seen a few deep cycles with a CCC rating on em, which indicates they are not true Deep Cycle. My deep cycles do not have a CCC rating. -- Warren 1995
      Message 2 of 29 , Jun 19, 2013
        I have seen a few deep cycles with a CCC rating on em, which indicates they are not true Deep Cycle. My deep cycles do not have a CCC rating.

        --
        Warren
        1995 Ford F-350 Centurion 7.3 power stroke diesel dually (Sam).
        1953 Airstream Cruiser Travel trailer (The Runaway Sue)
        Western KY
        Sent from my iPad 2.

        On Jun 18, 2013, at 3:35 PM, Bill Miller <mainiac1946@...> wrote:

        > I don't know what kind of batteries you have seen or where in stores,but I have several rental boats and several trolling motors.I use DIE HARD batteries EXCLUSIVELY . I use deep cycle for the trolling motors and regular marine starting batteries for the rental boats. I have never seen a deep cycle labeled as a Marine Starting battery, and I have never seen a Marine Starting battery labeled as DEEP CYCLE.
        >
        > mainiac bill
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: RogerD <red2dog45@...>
        > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:26 PM
        > Subject: [classicrv] Re: 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis
        >
        >
        >
        > But what kind of battery to replace with? What is seen in most retail stores listed as "deep cycle" are a hybrid type marine/starting battery and not true deep cycle. These are often used in RV's...especially smaller ones. True deep cycle batteries are larger, heavier, and much more expensive than marine/starting. These are often of the 6V "golf cart" type, which are coupled in series to make 12V.
        >
        > Deep cycle have much more capacity to be discharged/charged (sometimes 10X) than marine/starting, but often get replaced because of the initial high cost. I have seen big deep cycle batteries as original equipment in large older motorhomes and trailers.
        >
        > The subject of batteries and charging is worth another thread!
        >
        > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, <jameshammail@...> wrote:
        >
        > > You should replace the RV "house" battery with the best deep-cycle battery
        > > you can afford. If space permits, bigger battery is better for more
        > > capacity. Usually 3 sizes are available, and the largest is also the most
        > > expensive.
        > >
        > > Jim Hamilton
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • RogerD
        DieHard Marine Deep Cycle/RV batteries are not true deep cycle, but hybrid dual purpose types. Of easy to find brands Exide and Interstate (6V only) do sell
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 19, 2013
          DieHard Marine Deep Cycle/RV batteries are not true deep cycle, but hybrid dual purpose types. Of easy to find brands Exide and Interstate (6V only) do sell true deep cycle. Other premium true deep cycle brands (like Trojan) are harder to find and a lot more expensive.

          Don't know where the components are made, but Johnson Controls makes a large percentage of private label batteries. Interstate, DieHard, and many of the auto parts stores. Walmart even lists them on top of every battery!

          http://bestbatterytips.com/tags/who-makes-interstate-batteries/

          --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "orioneer" <JosephusMinimus@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Bill - Unless they've changed what they do, DIE HARD uses the same
          > plates and separaters in the cells as all the other medium-to-high
          > priced batteries. Probably the internal components are all manufactured
          > in the same factory in China or somewhere, sold to all the battery
          > manufacturing plants of all brands, same components.
          >
          > All DIE HARD did to make the batteries hotter was lower the PH of the
          > acid, giving it further to go before it loses everything.
          >
          > The only problem was the lower PH reduces the life of the plates more
          > quickly than happens with a higher PH. Lowering the PH without
          > thickening the plates equals plates eaten from zero-to-sixty a lot
          > sooner than a person might wish.
          >
          > Just saying. Jack
          >
          > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Bill Miller wrote:
          > >
          > > I don't know what kind of batteries you have seen or where in
          > stores,but I have several rental boats and several trolling motors.I use
          > DIE HARD batteries EXCLUSIVELY . I use deep cycle for the trolling
          > motors and regular marine starting batteries for the rental boats. I
          > have never seen a deep cycle labeled as a Marine Starting battery, and I
          > have never seen a Marine Starting battery labeled as DEEP CYCLE.
          > >
          > > mainiac bill
          > >
          >
        • RogerD
          DieHard Marine Deep Cycle/RV batteries are all hybrid dual purpose and they don t offer any true deep cycle types. You are right that they have a straight
          Message 4 of 29 , Jun 19, 2013
            DieHard Marine Deep Cycle/RV batteries are all hybrid "dual purpose" and they don't offer any true deep cycle types. You are right that they have a straight Marine Starting type which will not be labeled deep cycle. Look at your trolling batteries again.

            All of the "dual purpose" types are labeled deep cycle because they have some that capability. They usually have a lower CCA and MSA rating compared to a like sized pure starting type, but are still fairly high. Pure deep cycle often don't even list cranking amps.

            http://www.sears.com/automotive-batteries-marine-batteries/s-1100201

            http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_eStore/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ntk~SearchGroup|RVDeepCycle|3|


            --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Bill Miller <mainiac1946@...> wrote:
            >
            > I don't know what kind of batteries you have seen or where  in stores,but I have several rental boats and several trolling motors.I use DIE HARD batteries EXCLUSIVELY . I use deep cycle for the trolling motors and regular marine starting batteries for the rental boats. I have never seen a deep cycle labeled as a Marine Starting battery, and I have never seen a Marine Starting battery labeled as DEEP CYCLE.
            >
            > mainiac bill
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: RogerD <red2dog45@...>
            > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:26 PM
            > Subject: [classicrv] Re: 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            > But what kind of battery to replace with? What is seen in most retail stores listed as "deep cycle" are a hybrid type marine/starting battery and not true deep cycle. These are often used in RV's...especially smaller ones. True deep cycle batteries are larger, heavier, and much more expensive than marine/starting. These are often of the 6V "golf cart" type, which are coupled in series to make 12V.
            >
            > Deep cycle have much more capacity to be discharged/charged (sometimes 10X) than marine/starting, but often get replaced because of the initial high cost. I have seen big deep cycle batteries as original equipment in large older motorhomes and trailers.
            >
            > The subject of batteries and charging is worth another thread!
            >
            > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, <jameshammail@> wrote:
            >
            > > You should replace the RV "house" battery with the best deep-cycle battery
            > > you can afford. If space permits, bigger battery is better for more
            > > capacity. Usually 3 sizes are available, and the largest is also the most
            > > expensive.
            > >
            > > Jim Hamilton
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • orioneer
            Hi Bill, and thanks for the info. I thought I might be partially correct or I wouldn t have said it. I ll concede you re partially correct about me being
            Message 5 of 29 , Jun 20, 2013
              Hi Bill, and thanks for the info. I thought I might be partially correct or I wouldn't have said it. I'll concede you're partially correct about me being partially correct. Gracias, Jack

              --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Bill Miller <mainiac1946@...> wrote:
              >
              > Actually Jack, you are partially correct.Die Hard batteries are made by Johnson Controls. The same people make 80% of all the batteries. They make batteries for Wal-Mart  right alongside of the Die Hard made for SEARS.
              >
              > mainiac bill
              >
              >
            • RogerD
              Bill - Saw a statement from a Johnson Controls person on another RV forum that their battery manufacturing specifications did vary by customer, but they will
              Message 6 of 29 , Jun 20, 2013
                Bill - Saw a statement from a Johnson Controls person on another RV forum that their battery manufacturing specifications did vary by customer, but they will not give details. That may be reflected by retail price, but you don't always know. EverStart Maxx at Walmart compares to DieHard Gold, with only about a $15 price difference.

                Worst offender for overpricing is Interstate no matter where they are sold. They really stick it to you in more remote places where you can't get other top brands. Especially on things like lawn tractor batteries which are double the price of Walmart. Same specs - same manufacturer. The warranties on these are poor because people kill them by not maintaining charge in the off season...much like Marine and RV batteries.

                --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Bill Miller <mainiac1946@...> wrote:
                >
                > Actually Jack, you are partially correct.Die Hard batteries are made by Johnson Controls. The same people make 80% of all the batteries. They make batteries for Wal-Mart  right alongside of the Die Hard made for SEARS.
                >
                > mainiac bill
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: orioneer <JosephusMinimus@...>
                > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:15 AM
                > Subject: [classicrv] Re: 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis
                >
                > Bill - Unless they've changed what they do, DIE HARD uses the same
                > plates and separaters in the cells as all the other medium-to-high
                > priced batteries. Probably the internal components are all manufactured
                > in the same factory in China or somewhere, sold to all the battery
                > manufacturing plants of all brands, same components.
                >
                > All DIE HARD did to make the batteries hotter was lower the PH of the
                > acid, giving it further to go before it loses everything.
                >
                > The only problem was the lower PH reduces the life of the plates more
                > quickly than happens with a higher PH. Lowering the PH without
                > thickening the plates equals plates eaten from zero-to-sixty a lot
                > sooner than a person might wish.
                >
                > Just saying. Jack
                >
              • orioneer
                Wilf Blakey: I tried sending you an email back to thank you for the info about the alternator etc, but it came back undeliverable. So thanks right out here
                Message 7 of 29 , Jun 22, 2013
                  Wilf Blakey: I tried sending you an email back to thank you for the info about the alternator etc, but it came back undeliverable. So thanks right out here where everyone can see. Gracias, amigo. Jack

                  > > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, John Sargent john.sargent76@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  >
                • Garry Foster
                  Warren I have owned 5 motor homes and never seen one wired as your talking about. Always charge house battery from main alternator via an isolator or relay.
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jun 22, 2013
                    Warren I have owned 5 motor homes and never seen one wired as your talking about. Always charge house battery from main alternator via an isolator or relay. Same a trailer charging battery from battery line.

                    Garry


                    Sent from Garry's iPhone

                    On Jun 16, 2013, at 9:36 PM, Wncol2004 <wncol2004@...> wrote:

                    > My experience in motorhomes in general..which is quite limited.
                    > Is the coach battery is Not charged by the alternator unless you flip the switch that joins the two batteries (coach and chassis) together. This switch also will allow both batteries to be charged by the converter and or generator. Issue is the batteries are of a different type (chassis is an automotive battery and coach is a deep cycle) and should not be connected together for very long. Basically just long enough to either start the gen or start the motorhome engine.
                    >
                    > --
                    > Warren
                    > 1995 Ford F-350 Centurion 7.3 power stroke diesel dually (Sam).
                    > 1953 Airstream Cruiser Travel trailer (The Runaway Sue)
                    > Western KY
                    > Sent from my iPad 2.
                    >
                    > On Jun 16, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Robert Mitchell <mitch_bob@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > My experience is that the battery is charged primarily by the drive engine alternator.
                    > > #2 the described object sounds like the device to reverse the lock on an awning.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: orioneer <JosephusMinimus@...>
                    > > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:08:22 AM
                    > > Subject: [classicrv] 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Just bought it and most things appear to work. But the battery for the
                    > > 12v coach functions is bad, so I'll be replacing it.
                    > >
                    > > Question: Does that battery charge off the engine alternator when the
                    > > vehicle is running, or does it have to charge off the generator for the
                    > > coach? Will it charge automatically when the RV is plugged into 110
                    > > current?
                    > >
                    > > Question #2: There's a steel rod leaning in the bathtub/shower about
                    > > three feet long. 90 degree bend at one end about 1.5 inches, loop on
                    > > the other end. Any idea what that might be there for?
                    > >
                    > > Thank you.
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Wncol2004
                    I saw one early 70s that I almost purchased that needed a switch flipped. But it could also be the isolator had failed. It was old and in need of some TLC. --
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jun 22, 2013
                      I saw one early 70s that I almost purchased that needed a switch flipped. But it could also be the isolator had failed. It was old and in need of some TLC.

                      --
                      Warren
                      1995 Ford F-350 Centurion 7.3 power stroke diesel dually (Sam).
                      1953 Airstream Cruiser Travel trailer (The Runaway Sue)
                      Western KY
                      Sent from my iPad 2.

                      On Jun 22, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Garry Foster <garry.foster1@...> wrote:

                      > Warren I have owned 5 motor homes and never seen one wired as your talking about. Always charge house battery from main alternator via an isolator or relay. Same a trailer charging battery from battery line.
                      >
                      > Garry
                      >
                      > Sent from Garry's iPhone
                      >
                      > On Jun 16, 2013, at 9:36 PM, Wncol2004 <wncol2004@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > My experience in motorhomes in general..which is quite limited.
                      > > Is the coach battery is Not charged by the alternator unless you flip the switch that joins the two batteries (coach and chassis) together. This switch also will allow both batteries to be charged by the converter and or generator. Issue is the batteries are of a different type (chassis is an automotive battery and coach is a deep cycle) and should not be connected together for very long. Basically just long enough to either start the gen or start the motorhome engine.
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Warren
                      > > 1995 Ford F-350 Centurion 7.3 power stroke diesel dually (Sam).
                      > > 1953 Airstream Cruiser Travel trailer (The Runaway Sue)
                      > > Western KY
                      > > Sent from my iPad 2.
                      > >
                      > > On Jun 16, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Robert Mitchell <mitch_bob@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > My experience is that the battery is charged primarily by the drive engine alternator.
                      > > > #2 the described object sounds like the device to reverse the lock on an awning.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ________________________________
                      > > > From: orioneer <JosephusMinimus@...>
                      > > > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:08:22 AM
                      > > > Subject: [classicrv] 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Just bought it and most things appear to work. But the battery for the
                      > > > 12v coach functions is bad, so I'll be replacing it.
                      > > >
                      > > > Question: Does that battery charge off the engine alternator when the
                      > > > vehicle is running, or does it have to charge off the generator for the
                      > > > coach? Will it charge automatically when the RV is plugged into 110
                      > > > current?
                      > > >
                      > > > Question #2: There's a steel rod leaning in the bathtub/shower about
                      > > > three feet long. 90 degree bend at one end about 1.5 inches, loop on
                      > > > the other end. Any idea what that might be there for?
                      > > >
                      > > > Thank you.
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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