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Re: [classicrv] 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis

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  • JerryK
    It has been a wet spring here near Detroit too. I have a question, what is a cab over side slider ? JerryK ________________________________ From:
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 17, 2013
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      It has been a wet spring here near Detroit too.
      I have a question, what is a "cab over side slider"?
      JerryK



      ________________________________
      From: "rduck44@..." <rduck44@...>
      To: "classicrv@yahoogroups.com" <classicrv@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 8:40 AM
      Subject: Re: [classicrv] 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis



       
      Howdy,,,I wondered about the awning pull as well when I found it in the camper.
      [24' class C Fleetwood Rally on a 1984 E350 frame] But a video on awnings answered that..
      But it comes in real handy for opening and closing the  cab over side sliders..and spanking naughty gals when needed.
      Its been one of the wettest/coolest spring ever,, here in Wisconsin . Not much fun camping , but sure beats moving snow.
      enjoy
       
      Doug

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bill Miller
      A cab over is the part that extends over the roof of the vehicle. a side slider usually indicates a single slide out on the side of the camper as opposed to a
      Message 2 of 29 , Jun 18, 2013
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        A cab over is the part that extends over the roof of the vehicle. a side slider usually indicates a single slide out on the side of the camper as opposed to a rear slide out.

        Bill




        ________________________________
        From: JerryK <regal5575@...>
        To: "classicrv@yahoogroups.com" <classicrv@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 11:12 PM
        Subject: Re: [classicrv] 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis



         


        It has been a wet spring here near Detroit too.
        I have a question, what is a "cab over side slider"?
        JerryK

        ________________________________
        From: "rduck44@..." <rduck44@...>
        To: "classicrv@yahoogroups.com" <classicrv@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 8:40 AM
        Subject: Re: [classicrv] 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis


         
        Howdy,,,I wondered about the awning pull as well when I found it in the camper.
        [24' class C Fleetwood Rally on a 1984 E350 frame] But a video on awnings answered that..
        But it comes in real handy for opening and closing the  cab over side sliders..and spanking naughty gals when needed.
        Its been one of the wettest/coolest spring ever,, here in Wisconsin . Not much fun camping , but sure beats moving snow.
        enjoy
         
        Doug

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • RogerD
        But what kind of battery to replace with? What is seen in most retail stores listed as deep cycle are a hybrid type marine/starting battery and not true deep
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 18, 2013
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          But what kind of battery to replace with? What is seen in most retail stores listed as "deep cycle" are a hybrid type marine/starting battery and not true deep cycle. These are often used in RV's...especially smaller ones. True deep cycle batteries are larger, heavier, and much more expensive than marine/starting. These are often of the 6V "golf cart" type, which are coupled in series to make 12V.

          Deep cycle have much more capacity to be discharged/charged (sometimes 10X) than marine/starting, but often get replaced because of the initial high cost. I have seen big deep cycle batteries as original equipment in large older motorhomes and trailers.

          The subject of batteries and charging is worth another thread!

          --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, <jameshammail@...> wrote:

          > You should replace the RV "house" battery with the best deep-cycle battery
          > you can afford. If space permits, bigger battery is better for more
          > capacity. Usually 3 sizes are available, and the largest is also the most
          > expensive.
          >
          > Jim Hamilton
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • John Sargent
          Many believe Trojan makes the best battery, I just replaced my one house battery with the largest battery that would fit in the space. If you are going to keep
          Message 4 of 29 , Jun 18, 2013
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            Many believe Trojan makes the best battery, I just replaced my one house battery with the largest battery that would fit in the space.

            If you are going to keep your coach think about replacing your charger/converter with a modern one that won't cook your batteries, most CC from the factory are pretty cheesy.

            John on the road
            89 Winn LeSharo
            Prior: 95 Winn Vectra, 79 Winn Brave

            Sent from my iPhone 4S, iOS 5
            Lets Do Video Chat or Face Time

            On Jun 18, 2013, at 4:26 PM, "RogerD" <red2dog45@...> wrote:

            > But what kind of battery to replace with? What is seen in most retail stores listed as "deep cycle" are a hybrid type marine/starting battery and not true deep cycle. These are often used in RV's...especially smaller ones. True deep cycle batteries are larger, heavier, and much more expensive than marine/starting. These are often of the 6V "golf cart" type, which are coupled in series to make 12V.
            >
            > Deep cycle have much more capacity to be discharged/charged (sometimes 10X) than marine/starting, but often get replaced because of the initial high cost. I have seen big deep cycle batteries as original equipment in large older motorhomes and trailers.
            >
            > The subject of batteries and charging is worth another thread!
            >
            > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, <jameshammail@...> wrote:
            >
            > > You should replace the RV "house" battery with the best deep-cycle battery
            > > you can afford. If space permits, bigger battery is better for more
            > > capacity. Usually 3 sizes are available, and the largest is also the most
            > > expensive.
            > >
            > > Jim Hamilton
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bill Miller
            I don t know what kind of batteries you have seen or where  in stores,but I have several rental boats and several trolling motors.I use DIE HARD batteries
            Message 5 of 29 , Jun 18, 2013
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              I don't know what kind of batteries you have seen or where  in stores,but I have several rental boats and several trolling motors.I use DIE HARD batteries EXCLUSIVELY . I use deep cycle for the trolling motors and regular marine starting batteries for the rental boats. I have never seen a deep cycle labeled as a Marine Starting battery, and I have never seen a Marine Starting battery labeled as DEEP CYCLE.

              mainiac bill




              ________________________________
              From: RogerD <red2dog45@...>
              To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:26 PM
              Subject: [classicrv] Re: 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis



               
              But what kind of battery to replace with? What is seen in most retail stores listed as "deep cycle" are a hybrid type marine/starting battery and not true deep cycle. These are often used in RV's...especially smaller ones. True deep cycle batteries are larger, heavier, and much more expensive than marine/starting. These are often of the 6V "golf cart" type, which are coupled in series to make 12V.

              Deep cycle have much more capacity to be discharged/charged (sometimes 10X) than marine/starting, but often get replaced because of the initial high cost. I have seen big deep cycle batteries as original equipment in large older motorhomes and trailers.

              The subject of batteries and charging is worth another thread!

              --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, <jameshammail@...> wrote:

              > You should replace the RV "house" battery with the best deep-cycle battery
              > you can afford. If space permits, bigger battery is better for more
              > capacity. Usually 3 sizes are available, and the largest is also the most
              > expensive.
              >
              > Jim Hamilton
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Wncol2004
              When I overhauled my 12 volt system, or in my case, added it. I opted for two 6 volt golf cart batteries, AGM. So far, have worked just fine. -- Warren
              Message 6 of 29 , Jun 18, 2013
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                When I overhauled my 12 volt system, or in my case, added it. I opted for two 6 volt golf cart batteries, AGM. So far, have worked just fine.

                --
                Warren
                1995 Ford F-350 Centurion 7.3 power stroke diesel dually (Sam).
                1953 Airstream Cruiser Travel trailer (The Runaway Sue)
                Western KY
                Sent from my iPad 2.

                On Jun 18, 2013, at 3:26 PM, "RogerD" <red2dog45@...> wrote:

                > But what kind of battery to replace with? What is seen in most retail stores listed as "deep cycle" are a hybrid type marine/starting battery and not true deep cycle. These are often used in RV's...especially smaller ones. True deep cycle batteries are larger, heavier, and much more expensive than marine/starting. These are often of the 6V "golf cart" type, which are coupled in series to make 12V.
                >
                > Deep cycle have much more capacity to be discharged/charged (sometimes 10X) than marine/starting, but often get replaced because of the initial high cost. I have seen big deep cycle batteries as original equipment in large older motorhomes and trailers.
                >
                > The subject of batteries and charging is worth another thread!
                >
                > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, <jameshammail@...> wrote:
                >
                > > You should replace the RV "house" battery with the best deep-cycle battery
                > > you can afford. If space permits, bigger battery is better for more
                > > capacity. Usually 3 sizes are available, and the largest is also the most
                > > expensive.
                > >
                > > Jim Hamilton
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • RogerD
                Trojan batteries seem to be popular from seeing references on other RV forums, and they make a variety of types and sizes. A way you can sometimes tell if a
                Message 7 of 29 , Jun 18, 2013
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                  Trojan batteries seem to be popular from seeing references on other RV forums, and they make a variety of types and sizes. A way you can sometimes tell if a battery is true deep cycle is it will have no CCA (cold cranking amps) rating in the specs. The Trojan site only lists distributors in my area, so you would have to call them to see where they could be bought retail.

                  Agree about the older charger/converters, especially with deep cycle batteries. They are crude and will actually damage a battery from poor charge control. Engine alternator charging is also too crude for deep cycle batteries. What most people ended up with these old charging systems is a battery system that worked, but later failed from premature battery degeneration. A modern charging system might extend the battery life 2X-3X. It is a cost-benefit issue. A modern charger/converter is not cheap, so that has to be balanced to how long you want to use this vehicle. Buying cheap batteries more often might be a better choice for many.

                  --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, John Sargent <john.sargent76@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Many believe Trojan makes the best battery, I just replaced my one house battery with the largest battery that would fit in the space.
                  >
                  > If you are going to keep your coach think about replacing your charger/converter with a modern one that won't cook your batteries, most CC from the factory are pretty cheesy.
                  >
                  > John on the road
                  > 89 Winn LeSharo
                  > Prior: 95 Winn Vectra, 79 Winn Brave
                  >
                  > Sent from my iPhone 4S, iOS 5
                  > Lets Do Video Chat or Face Time
                  >
                  > On Jun 18, 2013, at 4:26 PM, "RogerD" <red2dog45@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > But what kind of battery to replace with? What is seen in most retail stores listed as "deep cycle" are a hybrid type marine/starting battery and not true deep cycle. These are often used in RV's...especially smaller ones. True deep cycle batteries are larger, heavier, and much more expensive than marine/starting. These are often of the 6V "golf cart" type, which are coupled in series to make 12V.
                  > >
                  > > Deep cycle have much more capacity to be discharged/charged (sometimes 10X) than marine/starting, but often get replaced because of the initial high cost. I have seen big deep cycle batteries as original equipment in large older motorhomes and trailers.
                  > >
                  > > The subject of batteries and charging is worth another thread!
                  > >
                  > > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, <jameshammail@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > You should replace the RV "house" battery with the best deep-cycle battery
                  > > > you can afford. If space permits, bigger battery is better for more
                  > > > capacity. Usually 3 sizes are available, and the largest is also the most
                  > > > expensive.
                  > > >
                  > > > Jim Hamilton
                • ez zinger
                  Deep Cycle batteries should be judged by their 20 hr rating numbers + actual weight indicating amount of lead in quality manufacture.  I use heaviest L-16
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jun 18, 2013
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                    Deep Cycle batteries should be judged by their 20 hr rating numbers + actual weight indicating amount of lead in quality manufacture.  I use heaviest L-16 batteries in a custom battery box.

                    --- On Tue, 6/18/13, RogerD <red2dog45@...> wrote:

                    From: RogerD <red2dog45@...>
                    Subject: [classicrv] Re: 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis
                    To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Tuesday, June 18, 2013, 4:06 PM

                    Trojan batteries seem to be popular from seeing references on other RV forums, and they make a variety of types and sizes. A way you can sometimes tell if a battery is true deep cycle is it will have no CCA (cold cranking amps) rating in the specs. The Trojan site only lists distributors in my area, so you would have to call them to see where they could be bought retail.

                    Agree about the older charger/converters, especially with deep cycle batteries. They are crude and will actually damage a battery from poor charge control. Engine alternator charging is also too crude for deep cycle batteries. What most people ended up with these old charging systems is a battery system that worked, but later failed from premature battery degeneration. A modern charging system might extend the battery life 2X-3X. It is a cost-benefit issue. A modern charger/converter is not cheap, so that has to be balanced to how long you want to use this vehicle. Buying cheap batteries more often might be a better choice for many.

                    --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, John Sargent <john.sargent76@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Many believe Trojan makes the best battery, I just replaced my one house battery with the largest battery that would fit in the space.
                    >
                    > If you are going to keep your coach think about replacing your charger/converter with a modern one that won't cook your batteries, most CC from the factory are pretty cheesy.
                    >
                    > John on the road
                    > 89 Winn LeSharo
                    > Prior: 95 Winn Vectra, 79 Winn Brave
                    >
                    > Sent from my iPhone 4S, iOS 5
                    > Lets Do Video Chat or Face Time
                    >
                    > On Jun 18, 2013, at 4:26 PM, "RogerD" <red2dog45@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > But what kind of battery to replace with? What is seen in most retail stores listed as "deep cycle" are a hybrid type marine/starting battery and not true deep cycle. These are often used in RV's...especially smaller ones. True deep cycle batteries are larger, heavier, and much more expensive than marine/starting. These are often of the 6V "golf cart" type, which are coupled in series to make 12V.
                    > >
                    > > Deep cycle have much more capacity to be discharged/charged (sometimes 10X) than marine/starting, but often get replaced because of the initial high cost. I have seen big deep cycle batteries as original equipment in large older motorhomes and trailers.
                    > >
                    > > The subject of batteries and charging is worth another thread!
                    > >
                    > > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, <jameshammail@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > You should replace the RV "house" battery with the best deep-cycle battery
                    > > > you can afford. If space permits, bigger battery is better for more
                    > > > capacity. Usually 3 sizes are available, and the largest is also the most
                    > > > expensive.
                    > > >
                    > > > Jim Hamilton




                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John Sargent
                    I found a rebuilt converter/charger on the Internet, Intellipower, price was fair, and they have multiple charger levels, still have warranty, look for ones
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jun 18, 2013
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                      I found a rebuilt converter/charger on the Internet, Intellipower, price was fair, and they have multiple charger levels, still have warranty, look for ones with "smart charger"

                      Search for rv converter charger, or try ppl motor homes in Texas, they have some,

                      Trojan says they have more Lead plates than others, last longer,

                      When it comes to batteries inexpensive is usually more expensive in the long run, especially if the coach is parked for a long time,

                      John in Plymouth
                      89 LeSharo, gas
                      Prior: 79 Brave bunkhouse, 95 Vectra


                      Sent from my iPhone 4S, iOS 5
                      Lets Do Video Chat or Face Time

                      On Jun 18, 2013, at 7:06 PM, "RogerD" <red2dog45@...> wrote:

                      > Trojan batteries seem to be popular from seeing references on other RV forums, and they make a variety of types and sizes. A way you can sometimes tell if a battery is true deep cycle is it will have no CCA (cold cranking amps) rating in the specs. The Trojan site only lists distributors in my area, so you would have to call them to see where they could be bought retail.
                      >
                      > Agree about the older charger/converters, especially with deep cycle batteries. They are crude and will actually damage a battery from poor charge control. Engine alternator charging is also too crude for deep cycle batteries. What most people ended up with these old charging systems is a battery system that worked, but later failed from premature battery degeneration. A modern charging system might extend the battery life 2X-3X. It is a cost-benefit issue. A modern charger/converter is not cheap, so that has to be balanced to how long you want to use this vehicle. Buying cheap batteries more often might be a better choice for many.
                      >
                      > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, John Sargent <john.sargent76@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Many believe Trojan makes the best battery, I just replaced my one house battery with the largest battery that would fit in the space.
                      > >
                      > > If you are going to keep your coach think about replacing your charger/converter with a modern one that won't cook your batteries, most CC from the factory are pretty cheesy.
                      > >
                      > > John on the road
                      > > 89 Winn LeSharo
                      > > Prior: 95 Winn Vectra, 79 Winn Brave
                      > >
                      > > Sent from my iPhone 4S, iOS 5
                      > > Lets Do Video Chat or Face Time
                      > >
                      > > On Jun 18, 2013, at 4:26 PM, "RogerD" <red2dog45@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > But what kind of battery to replace with? What is seen in most retail stores listed as "deep cycle" are a hybrid type marine/starting battery and not true deep cycle. These are often used in RV's...especially smaller ones. True deep cycle batteries are larger, heavier, and much more expensive than marine/starting. These are often of the 6V "golf cart" type, which are coupled in series to make 12V.
                      > > >
                      > > > Deep cycle have much more capacity to be discharged/charged (sometimes 10X) than marine/starting, but often get replaced because of the initial high cost. I have seen big deep cycle batteries as original equipment in large older motorhomes and trailers.
                      > > >
                      > > > The subject of batteries and charging is worth another thread!
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, <jameshammail@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > You should replace the RV "house" battery with the best deep-cycle battery
                      > > > > you can afford. If space permits, bigger battery is better for more
                      > > > > capacity. Usually 3 sizes are available, and the largest is also the most
                      > > > > expensive.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Jim Hamilton
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • orioneer
                      The awnings, now I ve had a look at them, are badly frayed. The smaller one over the passenger side of the coach just above the window is in the best shape of
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jun 19, 2013
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                        The awnings, now I've had a look at them, are badly frayed. The smaller
                        one over the passenger side of the coach just above the window is in the
                        best shape of the two small ones, just a frayed slit along the top....
                        might try using gorilla tape to temporary fix it enough to use. The big
                        one above it looks as though it's worn worse and I haven't figured out
                        how to get it down and out for a look.

                        Driver side one is throwaway clothing. Trying to decide whether to
                        forget it or try to rig a fix.

                        Thanks for the info. Jack Purcell

                        --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Henry Blair Jr." wrote:
                        >
                        > #2 is probably a rod with which to pull down your awning.
                        >
                        > Henry
                        >
                        > Henry K. Blair, Jr.
                        > 603 South Walton Street
                        > Bethune, SC 29009-9032
                        > (770) 998-4897, Cell (803) 427-6986 NEW!!!
                        > henryblairjr@...
                      • orioneer
                        John and Roger: I m 70 years old and hoping to spend the remainder of my life in this MH if I can make it last longer than me. But I m on an SS pension as my
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jun 19, 2013
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                          John and Roger: I'm 70 years old and hoping to spend the remainder of
                          my life in this MH if I can make it last longer than me. But I'm on an
                          SS pension as my sole source of income, so I'm limited in what I can do
                          and when I can do it. I don't do credit as a rule, though I borrowed
                          the money to buy this RV from a friend who's in better financial shape
                          than I am. [I bought a '83 Toyota New Horizon a year ago without
                          knowing what I should be looking for, turned out it had a wood frame for
                          the coach and it was barely avoiding collapse from internal rot. Every
                          time I went to town the roof leaks I'd recently repaired re-opened.]

                          Anyway, I live in this thing and will have to decide each month how much
                          has to go for fuel, how much to absolutely necessary repairs, and how
                          much for elective surgery.

                          At the moment the engine alternator's evidently working to charge the
                          starter battery, but the alternator gauge on the dash isn't functioning,
                          maybe isn't connected. I'm going to have to chase that down while I'm
                          resolving the battery for the coach issue.

                          I have an inverter I bought several years ago to run power tools
                          directly off a 12 volt battery and I'm thinking I might be able to
                          incorporate it into this process of upgrading the 1978.




                          --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, ez zinger wrote:
                          >
                          > Deep Cycle batteries should be judged by their 20 hr rating numbers +
                          actual weight indicating amount of lead in quality manufacture. I use
                          heaviest L-16 batteries in a custom battery box.
                          >
                          > --- On Tue, 6/18/13, RogerD red2dog45@... wrote:
                          >
                          > From: RogerD red2dog45@...
                          > Subject: [classicrv] Re: 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis
                          > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Tuesday, June 18, 2013, 4:06 PM
                          >
                          > Trojan batteries seem to be popular from seeing references on other RV
                          forums, and they make a variety of types and sizes. A way you can
                          sometimes tell if a battery is true deep cycle is it will have no CCA
                          (cold cranking amps) rating in the specs. The Trojan site only lists
                          distributors in my area, so you would have to call them to see where
                          they could be bought retail.
                          >
                          > Agree about the older charger/converters, especially with deep cycle
                          batteries. They are crude and will actually damage a battery from poor
                          charge control. Engine alternator charging is also too crude for deep
                          cycle batteries. What most people ended up with these old charging
                          systems is a battery system that worked, but later failed from premature
                          battery degeneration. A modern charging system might extend the battery
                          life 2X-3X. It is a cost-benefit issue. A modern charger/converter is
                          not cheap, so that has to be balanced to how long you want to use this
                          vehicle. Buying cheap batteries more often might be a better choice for
                          many.
                          >
                          > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, John Sargent john.sargent76@ wrote:
                          > >
                        • orioneer
                          Bill - Unless they ve changed what they do, DIE HARD uses the same plates and separaters in the cells as all the other medium-to-high priced batteries.
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jun 19, 2013
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                            Bill - Unless they've changed what they do, DIE HARD uses the same
                            plates and separaters in the cells as all the other medium-to-high
                            priced batteries. Probably the internal components are all manufactured
                            in the same factory in China or somewhere, sold to all the battery
                            manufacturing plants of all brands, same components.

                            All DIE HARD did to make the batteries hotter was lower the PH of the
                            acid, giving it further to go before it loses everything.

                            The only problem was the lower PH reduces the life of the plates more
                            quickly than happens with a higher PH. Lowering the PH without
                            thickening the plates equals plates eaten from zero-to-sixty a lot
                            sooner than a person might wish.

                            Just saying. Jack

                            --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Bill Miller wrote:
                            >
                            > I don't know what kind of batteries you have seen or where in
                            stores,but I have several rental boats and several trolling motors.I use
                            DIE HARD batteries EXCLUSIVELY . I use deep cycle for the trolling
                            motors and regular marine starting batteries for the rental boats. I
                            have never seen a deep cycle labeled as a Marine Starting battery, and I
                            have never seen a Marine Starting battery labeled as DEEP CYCLE.
                            >
                            > mainiac bill
                            >
                          • Bill Miller
                            Actually Jack, you are partially correct.Die Hard batteries are made by Johnson Controls. The same people make 80% of all the batteries. They make batteries
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jun 19, 2013
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                              Actually Jack, you are partially correct.Die Hard batteries are made by Johnson Controls. The same people make 80% of all the batteries. They make batteries for Wal-Mart  right alongside of the Die Hard made for SEARS.

                              mainiac bill




                              ________________________________
                              From: orioneer <JosephusMinimus@...>
                              To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:15 AM
                              Subject: [classicrv] Re: 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis



                               


                              Bill - Unless they've changed what they do, DIE HARD uses the same
                              plates and separaters in the cells as all the other medium-to-high
                              priced batteries. Probably the internal components are all manufactured
                              in the same factory in China or somewhere, sold to all the battery
                              manufacturing plants of all brands, same components.

                              All DIE HARD did to make the batteries hotter was lower the PH of the
                              acid, giving it further to go before it loses everything.

                              The only problem was the lower PH reduces the life of the plates more
                              quickly than happens with a higher PH. Lowering the PH without
                              thickening the plates equals plates eaten from zero-to-sixty a lot
                              sooner than a person might wish.

                              Just saying. Jack

                              --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Bill Miller wrote:
                              >
                              > I don't know what kind of batteries you have seen or where in
                              stores,but I have several rental boats and several trolling motors.I use
                              DIE HARD batteries EXCLUSIVELY . I use deep cycle for the trolling
                              motors and regular marine starting batteries for the rental boats. I
                              have never seen a deep cycle labeled as a Marine Starting battery, and I
                              have never seen a Marine Starting battery labeled as DEEP CYCLE.
                              >
                              > mainiac bill
                              >




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Wncol2004
                              I have seen a few deep cycles with a CCC rating on em, which indicates they are not true Deep Cycle. My deep cycles do not have a CCC rating. -- Warren 1995
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jun 19, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I have seen a few deep cycles with a CCC rating on em, which indicates they are not true Deep Cycle. My deep cycles do not have a CCC rating.

                                --
                                Warren
                                1995 Ford F-350 Centurion 7.3 power stroke diesel dually (Sam).
                                1953 Airstream Cruiser Travel trailer (The Runaway Sue)
                                Western KY
                                Sent from my iPad 2.

                                On Jun 18, 2013, at 3:35 PM, Bill Miller <mainiac1946@...> wrote:

                                > I don't know what kind of batteries you have seen or where in stores,but I have several rental boats and several trolling motors.I use DIE HARD batteries EXCLUSIVELY . I use deep cycle for the trolling motors and regular marine starting batteries for the rental boats. I have never seen a deep cycle labeled as a Marine Starting battery, and I have never seen a Marine Starting battery labeled as DEEP CYCLE.
                                >
                                > mainiac bill
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: RogerD <red2dog45@...>
                                > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:26 PM
                                > Subject: [classicrv] Re: 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > But what kind of battery to replace with? What is seen in most retail stores listed as "deep cycle" are a hybrid type marine/starting battery and not true deep cycle. These are often used in RV's...especially smaller ones. True deep cycle batteries are larger, heavier, and much more expensive than marine/starting. These are often of the 6V "golf cart" type, which are coupled in series to make 12V.
                                >
                                > Deep cycle have much more capacity to be discharged/charged (sometimes 10X) than marine/starting, but often get replaced because of the initial high cost. I have seen big deep cycle batteries as original equipment in large older motorhomes and trailers.
                                >
                                > The subject of batteries and charging is worth another thread!
                                >
                                > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, <jameshammail@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > You should replace the RV "house" battery with the best deep-cycle battery
                                > > you can afford. If space permits, bigger battery is better for more
                                > > capacity. Usually 3 sizes are available, and the largest is also the most
                                > > expensive.
                                > >
                                > > Jim Hamilton
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • RogerD
                                DieHard Marine Deep Cycle/RV batteries are not true deep cycle, but hybrid dual purpose types. Of easy to find brands Exide and Interstate (6V only) do sell
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jun 19, 2013
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                                  DieHard Marine Deep Cycle/RV batteries are not true deep cycle, but hybrid dual purpose types. Of easy to find brands Exide and Interstate (6V only) do sell true deep cycle. Other premium true deep cycle brands (like Trojan) are harder to find and a lot more expensive.

                                  Don't know where the components are made, but Johnson Controls makes a large percentage of private label batteries. Interstate, DieHard, and many of the auto parts stores. Walmart even lists them on top of every battery!

                                  http://bestbatterytips.com/tags/who-makes-interstate-batteries/

                                  --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "orioneer" <JosephusMinimus@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Bill - Unless they've changed what they do, DIE HARD uses the same
                                  > plates and separaters in the cells as all the other medium-to-high
                                  > priced batteries. Probably the internal components are all manufactured
                                  > in the same factory in China or somewhere, sold to all the battery
                                  > manufacturing plants of all brands, same components.
                                  >
                                  > All DIE HARD did to make the batteries hotter was lower the PH of the
                                  > acid, giving it further to go before it loses everything.
                                  >
                                  > The only problem was the lower PH reduces the life of the plates more
                                  > quickly than happens with a higher PH. Lowering the PH without
                                  > thickening the plates equals plates eaten from zero-to-sixty a lot
                                  > sooner than a person might wish.
                                  >
                                  > Just saying. Jack
                                  >
                                  > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Bill Miller wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I don't know what kind of batteries you have seen or where in
                                  > stores,but I have several rental boats and several trolling motors.I use
                                  > DIE HARD batteries EXCLUSIVELY . I use deep cycle for the trolling
                                  > motors and regular marine starting batteries for the rental boats. I
                                  > have never seen a deep cycle labeled as a Marine Starting battery, and I
                                  > have never seen a Marine Starting battery labeled as DEEP CYCLE.
                                  > >
                                  > > mainiac bill
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • RogerD
                                  DieHard Marine Deep Cycle/RV batteries are all hybrid dual purpose and they don t offer any true deep cycle types. You are right that they have a straight
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jun 19, 2013
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                                    DieHard Marine Deep Cycle/RV batteries are all hybrid "dual purpose" and they don't offer any true deep cycle types. You are right that they have a straight Marine Starting type which will not be labeled deep cycle. Look at your trolling batteries again.

                                    All of the "dual purpose" types are labeled deep cycle because they have some that capability. They usually have a lower CCA and MSA rating compared to a like sized pure starting type, but are still fairly high. Pure deep cycle often don't even list cranking amps.

                                    http://www.sears.com/automotive-batteries-marine-batteries/s-1100201

                                    http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_eStore/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ntk~SearchGroup|RVDeepCycle|3|


                                    --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Bill Miller <mainiac1946@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I don't know what kind of batteries you have seen or where  in stores,but I have several rental boats and several trolling motors.I use DIE HARD batteries EXCLUSIVELY . I use deep cycle for the trolling motors and regular marine starting batteries for the rental boats. I have never seen a deep cycle labeled as a Marine Starting battery, and I have never seen a Marine Starting battery labeled as DEEP CYCLE.
                                    >
                                    > mainiac bill
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: RogerD <red2dog45@...>
                                    > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:26 PM
                                    > Subject: [classicrv] Re: 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    > But what kind of battery to replace with? What is seen in most retail stores listed as "deep cycle" are a hybrid type marine/starting battery and not true deep cycle. These are often used in RV's...especially smaller ones. True deep cycle batteries are larger, heavier, and much more expensive than marine/starting. These are often of the 6V "golf cart" type, which are coupled in series to make 12V.
                                    >
                                    > Deep cycle have much more capacity to be discharged/charged (sometimes 10X) than marine/starting, but often get replaced because of the initial high cost. I have seen big deep cycle batteries as original equipment in large older motorhomes and trailers.
                                    >
                                    > The subject of batteries and charging is worth another thread!
                                    >
                                    > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, <jameshammail@> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > You should replace the RV "house" battery with the best deep-cycle battery
                                    > > you can afford. If space permits, bigger battery is better for more
                                    > > capacity. Usually 3 sizes are available, and the largest is also the most
                                    > > expensive.
                                    > >
                                    > > Jim Hamilton
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • orioneer
                                    Hi Bill, and thanks for the info. I thought I might be partially correct or I wouldn t have said it. I ll concede you re partially correct about me being
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jun 20, 2013
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                                      Hi Bill, and thanks for the info. I thought I might be partially correct or I wouldn't have said it. I'll concede you're partially correct about me being partially correct. Gracias, Jack

                                      --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Bill Miller <mainiac1946@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Actually Jack, you are partially correct.Die Hard batteries are made by Johnson Controls. The same people make 80% of all the batteries. They make batteries for Wal-Mart  right alongside of the Die Hard made for SEARS.
                                      >
                                      > mainiac bill
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • RogerD
                                      Bill - Saw a statement from a Johnson Controls person on another RV forum that their battery manufacturing specifications did vary by customer, but they will
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jun 20, 2013
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                                        Bill - Saw a statement from a Johnson Controls person on another RV forum that their battery manufacturing specifications did vary by customer, but they will not give details. That may be reflected by retail price, but you don't always know. EverStart Maxx at Walmart compares to DieHard Gold, with only about a $15 price difference.

                                        Worst offender for overpricing is Interstate no matter where they are sold. They really stick it to you in more remote places where you can't get other top brands. Especially on things like lawn tractor batteries which are double the price of Walmart. Same specs - same manufacturer. The warranties on these are poor because people kill them by not maintaining charge in the off season...much like Marine and RV batteries.

                                        --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Bill Miller <mainiac1946@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Actually Jack, you are partially correct.Die Hard batteries are made by Johnson Controls. The same people make 80% of all the batteries. They make batteries for Wal-Mart  right alongside of the Die Hard made for SEARS.
                                        >
                                        > mainiac bill
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: orioneer <JosephusMinimus@...>
                                        > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:15 AM
                                        > Subject: [classicrv] Re: 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis
                                        >
                                        > Bill - Unless they've changed what they do, DIE HARD uses the same
                                        > plates and separaters in the cells as all the other medium-to-high
                                        > priced batteries. Probably the internal components are all manufactured
                                        > in the same factory in China or somewhere, sold to all the battery
                                        > manufacturing plants of all brands, same components.
                                        >
                                        > All DIE HARD did to make the batteries hotter was lower the PH of the
                                        > acid, giving it further to go before it loses everything.
                                        >
                                        > The only problem was the lower PH reduces the life of the plates more
                                        > quickly than happens with a higher PH. Lowering the PH without
                                        > thickening the plates equals plates eaten from zero-to-sixty a lot
                                        > sooner than a person might wish.
                                        >
                                        > Just saying. Jack
                                        >
                                      • orioneer
                                        Wilf Blakey: I tried sending you an email back to thank you for the info about the alternator etc, but it came back undeliverable. So thanks right out here
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jun 22, 2013
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                                          Wilf Blakey: I tried sending you an email back to thank you for the info about the alternator etc, but it came back undeliverable. So thanks right out here where everyone can see. Gracias, amigo. Jack

                                          > > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, John Sargent john.sargent76@ wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          >
                                        • Garry Foster
                                          Warren I have owned 5 motor homes and never seen one wired as your talking about. Always charge house battery from main alternator via an isolator or relay.
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jun 22, 2013
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                                            Warren I have owned 5 motor homes and never seen one wired as your talking about. Always charge house battery from main alternator via an isolator or relay. Same a trailer charging battery from battery line.

                                            Garry


                                            Sent from Garry's iPhone

                                            On Jun 16, 2013, at 9:36 PM, Wncol2004 <wncol2004@...> wrote:

                                            > My experience in motorhomes in general..which is quite limited.
                                            > Is the coach battery is Not charged by the alternator unless you flip the switch that joins the two batteries (coach and chassis) together. This switch also will allow both batteries to be charged by the converter and or generator. Issue is the batteries are of a different type (chassis is an automotive battery and coach is a deep cycle) and should not be connected together for very long. Basically just long enough to either start the gen or start the motorhome engine.
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > Warren
                                            > 1995 Ford F-350 Centurion 7.3 power stroke diesel dually (Sam).
                                            > 1953 Airstream Cruiser Travel trailer (The Runaway Sue)
                                            > Western KY
                                            > Sent from my iPad 2.
                                            >
                                            > On Jun 16, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Robert Mitchell <mitch_bob@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > My experience is that the battery is charged primarily by the drive engine alternator.
                                            > > #2 the described object sounds like the device to reverse the lock on an awning.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ________________________________
                                            > > From: orioneer <JosephusMinimus@...>
                                            > > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:08:22 AM
                                            > > Subject: [classicrv] 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Just bought it and most things appear to work. But the battery for the
                                            > > 12v coach functions is bad, so I'll be replacing it.
                                            > >
                                            > > Question: Does that battery charge off the engine alternator when the
                                            > > vehicle is running, or does it have to charge off the generator for the
                                            > > coach? Will it charge automatically when the RV is plugged into 110
                                            > > current?
                                            > >
                                            > > Question #2: There's a steel rod leaning in the bathtub/shower about
                                            > > three feet long. 90 degree bend at one end about 1.5 inches, loop on
                                            > > the other end. Any idea what that might be there for?
                                            > >
                                            > > Thank you.
                                            > >
                                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Wncol2004
                                            I saw one early 70s that I almost purchased that needed a switch flipped. But it could also be the isolator had failed. It was old and in need of some TLC. --
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jun 22, 2013
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                                              I saw one early 70s that I almost purchased that needed a switch flipped. But it could also be the isolator had failed. It was old and in need of some TLC.

                                              --
                                              Warren
                                              1995 Ford F-350 Centurion 7.3 power stroke diesel dually (Sam).
                                              1953 Airstream Cruiser Travel trailer (The Runaway Sue)
                                              Western KY
                                              Sent from my iPad 2.

                                              On Jun 22, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Garry Foster <garry.foster1@...> wrote:

                                              > Warren I have owned 5 motor homes and never seen one wired as your talking about. Always charge house battery from main alternator via an isolator or relay. Same a trailer charging battery from battery line.
                                              >
                                              > Garry
                                              >
                                              > Sent from Garry's iPhone
                                              >
                                              > On Jun 16, 2013, at 9:36 PM, Wncol2004 <wncol2004@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > My experience in motorhomes in general..which is quite limited.
                                              > > Is the coach battery is Not charged by the alternator unless you flip the switch that joins the two batteries (coach and chassis) together. This switch also will allow both batteries to be charged by the converter and or generator. Issue is the batteries are of a different type (chassis is an automotive battery and coach is a deep cycle) and should not be connected together for very long. Basically just long enough to either start the gen or start the motorhome engine.
                                              > >
                                              > > --
                                              > > Warren
                                              > > 1995 Ford F-350 Centurion 7.3 power stroke diesel dually (Sam).
                                              > > 1953 Airstream Cruiser Travel trailer (The Runaway Sue)
                                              > > Western KY
                                              > > Sent from my iPad 2.
                                              > >
                                              > > On Jun 16, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Robert Mitchell <mitch_bob@...> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > > My experience is that the battery is charged primarily by the drive engine alternator.
                                              > > > #2 the described object sounds like the device to reverse the lock on an awning.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > ________________________________
                                              > > > From: orioneer <JosephusMinimus@...>
                                              > > > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:08:22 AM
                                              > > > Subject: [classicrv] 1978 Holiday Rambler - Econoline chassis
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Just bought it and most things appear to work. But the battery for the
                                              > > > 12v coach functions is bad, so I'll be replacing it.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Question: Does that battery charge off the engine alternator when the
                                              > > > vehicle is running, or does it have to charge off the generator for the
                                              > > > coach? Will it charge automatically when the RV is plugged into 110
                                              > > > current?
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Question #2: There's a steel rod leaning in the bathtub/shower about
                                              > > > three feet long. 90 degree bend at one end about 1.5 inches, loop on
                                              > > > the other end. Any idea what that might be there for?
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Thank you.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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