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Re: [classicrv] Lets talk about overheating problems

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  • Bill Miller
    Rob; I had a similar situation on a Cat 3208 Diesel. It would overheat like crazy on any steep hill. I did all the normal stuff, as you have, and then I had an
    Message 1 of 17 , Feb 13, 2013
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      Rob;
      I had a similar situation on a Cat 3208 Diesel. It would overheat like crazy on any steep hill. I did all the normal stuff, as you have, and then I had an electric fan installed in place of the regular factory fan. I had it wired so I could turn it on manually from the cab. Problem solved.

      I found out after I got rid of the truck, that the factory fan and radiator were to small for the application. That truck was meant to be a local delivery van or garbage truck; I had it hauling a 48'   flat bed trailer.



      You may need to look at a bigger radiator, bigger fan, or full time fan as opposed to clutch operated.

      mainiac bill




      ________________________________
      From: Sirrobyn0 <sirrobyn0@...>
      To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:27 AM
      Subject: [classicrv] Lets talk about overheating problems


       
      Ok, let me preface this by reminding the group that I have been a automobile technician for the last 20 plus years, so I know how engines are supposed to work, but this one on my old RV has me stumped.

      So the RV is a 1977 Dodge Flair Class C 22 foot with the Dodge 360 engine. It has had some moderate engine overheating problems, usually most noticeable in 80+ weather, more prone to happen on hills, but I have always been able to control the engine temperature by turning on the cab heat. Not much fun in hot weather but better than the side of the road.

      Next heat related issue. When we first got the motorhome 12 years ago it would vapor lock in 70+ degree weather. 70 degree is not all that hot, I added a pusher pump back at the fuel tank, and insulated the lines in the engine compartment which has helped some, now it only vapor locks when the weather is 85 or hotter.

      Second to last heat related issue, percolation. Anytime it is over about 70 degrees outside, stop for fuel or a rest stop, after a few minites of the engine being turned off you'll smell fuel and have to floor it to get it to restart. What is really funny is sometimes it will percolate, then a few moments after starting, it will vapor lock... Actually it's not a bit funny. I open the hood first thing every time we stop the motorhome to help counter act the heat, which again helps.

      Final issue I suspect is heat related, and this can happen in almost any weather. Going up a long steep hill, that requires a lot of throttle this smell will come up. It reminds me of hot metal, this is more likely to occur in cooler weather, because in hotter weather I have to drive slower on the hills to keep the engine temps down. I suspect that under the load of a long hill the exhaust manifolds are getting very hot, possibly glowing hot. I just had to replace both of the exhaust manifolds because they had cracked, also the gaskets were burned to a crisp.

      I have done all the usual stuff to fix overheating.
      Radiator rodded out.
      Thermostat replaced.
      Fan clutch replaced.
      Hoses and belts replaced.
      I'm sure I have tried more that I can't remember at the moment.

      And yes the original OE. fan shroud is in place and in good shape.
      The heat riser was removed from the exhaust manifold sometime back, and there exhaust is free from restriction.

      Though the motorhome runs great otherwise, I suspect this is being caused by retarded ignition timing or to lean of a carburetor. I cannot see the timing marks on the harmonic balancer, with a light due to the location of the power steering pump and air pump on the block. There isn't a mark on the flywheel, although there is a hole present in the bell housing, for that setup, but the transmission was replaced just before we bought it, and the torque converter was replaced at that time.

      I have access to a 4 gas analyzer at work, and was thinking of hooking it up to see how rich or lean the carburetor actually is.

      So you guys out there that know these Dodge 360 better that I do, what do you think is causing all these heat issues?
      Any good ideas on how to set the timing other than doing it by ear?


      Thanks for the advice,
      Rob




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ted Kroll
      Good idea Rose. Ted ... From: RM To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [classicrv] Lets talk about overheating
      Message 2 of 17 , Feb 13, 2013
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        Good idea Rose.
        Ted
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: RM
        To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:47 PM
        Subject: Re: [classicrv] Lets talk about overheating problems



        I use white-out pens for that sort thing. They're great for marking the distributor cap and all sorts of stuff. The pen tip is small enough that it's easy to use to write with and the marks last almost forever. My husband loved the idea when I showed it to him.
        --RoseMarie

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Ted Kroll

        If I may suggest for the timing. Turn it over by hand until ur marks line up on #1 plug pos in dist. then make 2 marks of ur own that U can see with chalk or white paint, but the paint should dry that's why I use chalk the after it done I redo with paint.
        Ted

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sirrobyn0
        First I want to thank everyone for their thoughts I will try to address everyone here at once. While a diesel engine conversion would be great it is way out of
        Message 3 of 17 , Feb 13, 2013
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          First I want to thank everyone for their thoughts I will try to address everyone here at once.

          While a diesel engine conversion would be great it is way out of the budget right now. If I could afford that kind of conversion I'd likely just by a motorhome with a diesel already in it. It be a lot of work to do the conversion.

          About eliminating the engine fuel pump. I could do that and just go with the pusher pump however it would only mask the problem which I believe is to much heat. Either the engine producing to much heat or not enough heat leaving the engine. I may eliminate the engine pump if I don't find a better solve however.

          I don't really think it is a clogged vent or a bad fuel line, though I will think about that some, and I may replace rubber lines just to see but this is definitely heat related as it is fine in the winter and never presents the vapor lock, perculate or overheating in the cooler winter temps.

          However, some time ago in the past the metal line from the fuel pump to the carburetor was replaced with a rubber line. Not sure if rubber might absorb heat more than the original metal line.

          The transmission has a large external cooler that was installed when the transmission was rebuilt. It is in good shape and has been checked, and is located in front of the a/c condenser.

          It has the original radiator fan and shroud I have measured both of them and they are correct.

          There is a hole in the bell housing that would have been to set the timing, but when the transmission was rebuilt the torque converter was replaced and the new one doesn't have any markings on it. I might try to make my own marks as someone suggested. I have not tested the advance curve on the distributor but I am thinking that I should.

          I have thought about going to a direct fan, but have been concerned about the constant fan rpm at high speed and how it might affect the water pump bearings. I would love more input on going to a direct drive fan. That would be one way to move more air in the engine compartment. I'm not keen on going to an electric fan just because the alternators on these dogs aren't that big to begin with.

          Also just for reference these problems have cropped up in the last few years. I'd like to stay away from modifying it to heavily if possible as this seems more like a wear, or adjustment problem, rather than a design issue.

          Thank you all for you input, I look forward to anymore discussion.

          Thanks,
          Rob


          --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Kroll" wrote:
          >
          > Good idea Rose.
          > Ted
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: RM
          > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:47 PM
          > Subject: Re: [classicrv] Lets talk about overheating problems
          >
          >
          >
          > I use white-out pens for that sort thing. They're great for marking the distributor cap and all sorts of stuff. The pen tip is small enough that it's easy to use to write with and the marks last almost forever. My husband loved the idea when I showed it to him.
          > --RoseMarie
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Ted Kroll
          >
          > If I may suggest for the timing. Turn it over by hand until ur marks line up on #1 plug pos in dist. then make 2 marks of ur own that U can see with chalk or white paint, but the paint should dry that's why I use chalk the after it done I redo with paint.
          > Ted
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • James Hamilton
          Suggestions for overheating from experience because I previously had a 1972 Brougham Class C with a Dodge 440. Had all of the same problems with carb, cracked
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 14, 2013
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            Suggestions for overheating from experience because I previously had a 1972
            Brougham Class C with a Dodge 440. Had all of the same problems with carb,
            cracked manifolds, overheating that you have mentioned. A junk-yard visit
            yielded two metal electric fans from a Honda Civic that would fit behind the
            grill and in front of AC condenser, oil cooler, and radiator. Used manual
            on/off switch on the dash during summer heat. That solved most of the
            overheat problem.



            Also purchased an in-line "booster" air-blower from Home Depot. This was
            designed to mount inside the 6 inch standard furnace duct to increase
            air-flow to a distant heating register. Unit was powered by a transformer
            that plugged into the wall and turned 115 volts AC to 12 volts DC. Hooked
            this booster up to 12 volt motorhome system and mounted behind grill under
            headlight to push more air into the engine compartment. Worked so well on
            one side, I added another later so both manifolds received blast of fresh
            air moving over them, even at low speed driving.



            I remember also reversing the lid of the air cleaner to be upside down, with
            ring of black vacuum line hose to make a seal between the paper air filter
            and the metal lid. This improved the carb air flow because it could suck
            air 360 degrees around rather than thru the 3 inch corrugated black tube
            provided by Dodge.

            Jim Hamilton





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dick
            I have a 1977 M-500 with a 440. Same overheating and X seals in thermoquad leaking causing flooding, also warped manifold. For the overheating, I removed the
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 14, 2013
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              I have a 1977 M-500 with a 440. Same overheating and X seals in thermoquad leaking causing flooding, also warped manifold. For the overheating, I removed the air conditioning and used the condenser coils for a transmission cooler. Installed temp gauges in and out and installed a temperature settable switch to control a dual fan setup that was already installed. I drove from South Carolina to Central America, and I am sure that without this setup, I never would have made it! Not sure if this would be good for cold weather, though!

              --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "James Hamilton" wrote:
              >
              > Suggestions for overheating from experience because I previously had a 1972
              > Brougham Class C with a Dodge 440. Had all of the same problems with carb,
              > cracked manifolds, overheating that you have mentioned. A junk-yard visit
              > yielded two metal electric fans from a Honda Civic that would fit behind the
              > grill and in front of AC condenser, oil cooler, and radiator. Used manual
              > on/off switch on the dash during summer heat. That solved most of the
              > overheat problem.
              >
              >
              >
              > Also purchased an in-line "booster" air-blower from Home Depot. This was
              > designed to mount inside the 6 inch standard furnace duct to increase
              > air-flow to a distant heating register. Unit was powered by a transformer
              > that plugged into the wall and turned 115 volts AC to 12 volts DC. Hooked
              > this booster up to 12 volt motorhome system and mounted behind grill under
              > headlight to push more air into the engine compartment. Worked so well on
              > one side, I added another later so both manifolds received blast of fresh
              > air moving over them, even at low speed driving.
              >
              >
              >
              > I remember also reversing the lid of the air cleaner to be upside down, with
              > ring of black vacuum line hose to make a seal between the paper air filter
              > and the metal lid. This improved the carb air flow because it could suck
              > air 360 degrees around rather than thru the 3 inch corrugated black tube
              > provided by Dodge.
              >
              > Jim Hamilton
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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