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Re: [classicrv] Question about a Dodge 440 rear main bearing

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  • Warren
    The seal is what is leaking. I don t know if the bearing and seal are the same part or not. But from what little I know about engines in general. When the rear
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 24, 2010
      The seal is what is leaking. I don't know if the bearing and seal are the
      same part or not.

      But from what little I know about engines in general. When the rear or front
      main is leaking. That is one major undertaking to get to it and replace the
      seal.

      An old Dodge engine mechanic (Hope one is on this group) would know more
      about that than I.


      --
      Warren
      1989 GMC R2500 HD Suburban.
      1953 Airstream Cruiser Travel trailer (The Runaway Sue)
      Western KY

      On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Matthew Hudson <antispam@...>wrote:

      >
      >
      > I have a dodge 440, and the rear main is leaking. I bought the bearing
      > and it is a two piece unit, and the oil pan looks like it is easy to
      > remove, so the question is... is it easy to replace? What do I have to
      > watch out for?
      >
      > Dodge Titan,
      > Mopar 440
      > 1979 Dodge chassis.
      >
      > Thanks in advance!
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Matthew Hudson
      Thanks Jim. I m going to try it this weekend, and if I can, I ll do pictures and a play by play for the files section.
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 24, 2010
        Thanks Jim. I'm going to try it this weekend, and if I can, I'll do
        pictures and a play by play for the files section.

        On 3/24/2010 6:59 AM, james wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > OK.... what you have in your hands are two semicircles made of very
        > stiff rubber.
        >
        > You need to get the oil pan way down, (preferably off if you can.)
        >
        > you will need a torque wrench.
        >
        > Get the oil pan out of the way....
        >
        > Once you start, you are pretty much committed.
        > loosen the bolts on the mains, for at least the rear and hopefully if
        > you have room, the second set.
        > This will drop the crank a little to make life easier.
        > Now you can take the rear main out completely, looking up at the block
        > you will see 1/2 of the old seal there....the ends.
        >
        > take a small screwdriver, or punch ,and push on the end, the other end
        > should start to come out. You might have to wobble it back and forth a
        > bit to get it out easily.
        > It WILL be tight, you can loosen the mains bolts, but, not too much as
        > you dont want to disturb the bearings there, especially if something
        > rotates!
        >
        > With the old upper half out,
        >
        > put some slickem' .... oil,silicon,grease, or something on the upper
        > half of the new seal.
        >
        > and guide it into the "slot" where the old one was. Be gentle,yet firm,
        > and dont bend it!
        > Again you might have to push/pull/wobble to get it in.
        >
        > Make sure both ends are flush.
        > Install the other end into the rear main casting....lube it up...
        >
        > reinstall the rear main, and re-torque the main cap bolts as the
        > manufacturer recommends.
        >
        > Put the pan back on, put some (thin) oil in it and try it out.
        >
        > If you can get this job done for $40 it is a bargain.
        > Some are a pain-in-the- when the engine is out and on a stand!
        >
        > jim
        >
        >
      • Ted Kroll
        What really helps is when U go to put the new seal back in if U have STP or engine/cam assembly lube it makes it really slippery, and that helps! ... From:
        Message 3 of 17 , Mar 24, 2010
          What really helps is when U go to put the new seal back in if U have STP or
          engine/cam assembly lube it makes it really slippery, and that helps!

          -----Original Message-----
          From: classicrv@yahoogroups.com [mailto:classicrv@yahoogroups.com]On
          Behalf Of Matthew Hudson
          Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:05 AM
          To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [classicrv] Re: CORRECTION: Question about a Dodge 440 rear
          main SEAL


          Thanks Jim. I'm going to try it this weekend, and if I can, I'll do
          pictures and a play by play for the files section.

          On 3/24/2010 6:59 AM, james wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > OK.... what you have in your hands are two semicircles made of very
          > stiff rubber.
          >
          > You need to get the oil pan way down, (preferably off if you can.)
          >
          > you will need a torque wrench.
          >
          > Get the oil pan out of the way....
          >
          > Once you start, you are pretty much committed.
          > loosen the bolts on the mains, for at least the rear and hopefully if
          > you have room, the second set.
          > This will drop the crank a little to make life easier.
          > Now you can take the rear main out completely, looking up at the block
          > you will see 1/2 of the old seal there....the ends.
          >
          > take a small screwdriver, or punch ,and push on the end, the other end
          > should start to come out. You might have to wobble it back and forth a
          > bit to get it out easily.
          > It WILL be tight, you can loosen the mains bolts, but, not too much as
          > you dont want to disturb the bearings there, especially if something
          > rotates!
          >
          > With the old upper half out,
          >
          > put some slickem' .... oil,silicon,grease, or something on the upper
          > half of the new seal.
          >
          > and guide it into the "slot" where the old one was. Be gentle,yet firm,
          > and dont bend it!
          > Again you might have to push/pull/wobble to get it in.
          >
          > Make sure both ends are flush.
          > Install the other end into the rear main casting....lube it up...
          >
          > reinstall the rear main, and re-torque the main cap bolts as the
          > manufacturer recommends.
          >
          > Put the pan back on, put some (thin) oil in it and try it out.
          >
          > If you can get this job done for $40 it is a bargain.
          > Some are a pain-in-the- when the engine is out and on a stand!
          >
          > jim
          >
          >


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        • denisond3d3
          wrote: ....the rear or front ... ** Maybe my 413 was different (though it used the exact same seal as the 440 s did, and the pan and block
          Message 4 of 17 , Mar 24, 2010
            <wncol2004@...> wrote: "....the rear or front
            > main is leaking. That is one major undertaking to get to it and replace the seal."
            ** Maybe my 413 was different (though it used the exact same seal as the 440's did, and the pan and block were the same too,)but...the two bolts holding the seal retainer up into the rear wall of the block require a socket with the same number of 'splines' as the heads of the bolts. They were not hex headed bolts, they had 12 splines. So I had to use a 12 point wrench to fit over it. I forget if it was 7/16" or 3/8".
            I bought the original type of seal; the type that is two pieces of mineral fiber rope saturated with graphite. I only replaced the bottom half, since that is where most of the wear happens. The tricky part was where the seal retainer fit back up into the block. It slid up into an opening with parallel sides. To keep oil from spattering out between the block and the seal retainer, there were two rubber strips that had to be fit in -sliding up along with the seal retainer-. There wasnt any easy way to ensure they really slid up there, rather than just mushing around and leaving a gap.
            I also replaced the front main seal, when I had the radiator out for cleaning/recoring. You have to remove the water pump and its housing (a big casting) to get at the timing cover, and you need a large socket to unscrew the bolt holding the vibration damper onto the end of the crankshaft. I can tell you my mopar big block had worn out seals (due to being over 25 years old), but at 100,000 miles, the timing chain wasnt worn much at all.
            After the repair, the bottom of the engine stayed clean. I had painted the oil pan when it was off - and a few years later it is still glossy black, with no oil coming from the rear main.

            The seals on the 727 tranny need replacement now - just due to age.
          • Matthew Hudson
            Thanks for that. It looks like there are three different types of seals that are available for that engine. A simple set with a tube of black RTV, a set that
            Message 5 of 17 , Mar 24, 2010
              Thanks for that. It looks like there are three different types of seals
              that are available for that engine. A simple set with a tube of black
              RTV, a set that does not use the RTV, and a rope seal that is no longer
              made for general consumption. I'm going to inquire at a speed shop in
              the AM about one from them, or at least the simpler to install seal. As
              I've said, I plan to take pictures of the process and post them after
              the event. (hope my old camera still works)

              On 3/24/2010 10:39 PM, denisond3d3 wrote:
              >
              >
              > <wncol2004@...> wrote: "....the rear or front
              > > main is leaking. That is one major undertaking to get to it and
              > replace the seal."
              > ** Maybe my 413 was different (though it used the exact same seal as the
              > 440's did, and the pan and block were the same too,)but...the two bolts
              > holding the seal retainer up into the rear wall of the block require a
              > socket with the same number of 'splines' as the heads of the bolts. They
              > were not hex headed bolts, they had 12 splines. So I had to use a 12
              > point wrench to fit over it. I forget if it was 7/16" or 3/8".
              > I bought the original type of seal; the type that is two pieces of
              > mineral fiber rope saturated with graphite. I only replaced the bottom
              > half, since that is where most of the wear happens. The tricky part was
              > where the seal retainer fit back up into the block. It slid up into an
              > opening with parallel sides. To keep oil from spattering out between the
              > block and the seal retainer, there were two rubber strips that had to be
              > fit in -sliding up along with the seal retainer-. There wasnt any easy
              > way to ensure they really slid up there, rather than just mushing around
              > and leaving a gap.
              > I also replaced the front main seal, when I had the radiator out for
              > cleaning/recoring. You have to remove the water pump and its housing (a
              > big casting) to get at the timing cover, and you need a large socket to
              > unscrew the bolt holding the vibration damper onto the end of the
              > crankshaft. I can tell you my mopar big block had worn out seals (due to
              > being over 25 years old), but at 100,000 miles, the timing chain wasnt
              > worn much at all.
              > After the repair, the bottom of the engine stayed clean. I had painted
              > the oil pan when it was off - and a few years later it is still glossy
              > black, with no oil coming from the rear main.
              >
              > The seals on the 727 tranny need replacement now - just due to age.
              >
              >
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