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Turbocharging

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  • Ron Mitchell
    I m going to start a new subject thread on this issue. I believe we ve discussed this before. I m a big fan of turbocharging. ... I beg to differ with those
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 1, 2008
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      I'm going to start a new subject thread on this issue. I believe
      we've discussed this before. I'm a big fan of turbocharging.

      At 10:30 PM 02/29/2008, you wrote:
      >adding a turbo system isnt goin to add mpgs....and from what ive
      >been told...aint gonna do squadoooche for my torque or power.

      I beg to differ with those statements. It may or may not help your
      MPG a bunch, depends on how many hills you have to climb with the
      pedal to the floor, just to get over the top or drop a gear or two
      and crawl over. A correctly sized and installed turbocharger can
      easily double the HP of any gas engine, but it don't come free. More
      power means more fuel. I believe that using the extra fuel to climb a
      long hill at the speed limit would be more efficient in the long run
      than crawling over at 30 mph.
      Those big tractors you see at the tractor pulls with 1000+ HP do it
      by using multi-staged turbo systems, where one feeds into another. In
      cars, where acceleration is important, turbo setups are a compromise
      between power and the time to spool up (lag time). It's the lag time
      that car folks dislike and the reason they're not used more. Small
      turbos spool quickly, but don't give big HP increases, unless you use
      a bunch. Some exotic (big $$$) sports cars have 4 and more turbos to
      resolve that issue. Some put out 1,000 HP from 8.0L (488 ci). That's
      not much bigger than my 440.
      Back to the real world and our RV's, even a small 6-8 lbs boost,
      which would require no mods to the lower end of the engine, would add
      50% or more to the HP and torque. That's a lot of help. I don't care
      if it takes a second or two for the turbo to spool up, I'm not going
      to be drag racing the semi in the next lane, but I would like to be
      able to pass him on the hills and maintain the speed limit, or close
      to it, while climbing those hills. If it helps the engine to breathe
      better, maybe it can help the MPG a little, it all depends on how
      it's set up. Properly set up, at worst, it won't hurt the MPG.
      The engines from the 60's & 70's (pre-emission and computer) are
      ideal to boost with turbos. There's no computer or anything to worry
      about, just plumbing. The bible of turbocharging is "Turbochargers"
      by Hugh MacInnes, first published in 1976. I do have my copy. It will
      tell you everything you need to know. Now all I need is the $$$ to do it...
      Oh, by the way, I had a 1980 Turbo Mustang GT. It was a 4-cylinder
      and would out run the V-8 Cobra of the same era. There was no
      competition in a road race. With the turbo spooled up and running, it
      out accelerated and handled much better, due to a better weight
      distribution. I surprised a lot of folks in that car. I modified it
      to boost up to 10-12 lbs. Normal max was 8. It would go like the
      proverbial bat. I had it for 150K miles and was sorry to let it go,
      but not enough room for the kids.

      Ron
      76 Coachmen
    • chris tryba
      my issue isnt power....its mpgs!! Ron Mitchell wrote: I m going to start a new subject thread on this issue. I believe we ve
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 1, 2008
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        my issue isnt power....its mpgs!!

        Ron Mitchell <rmitchel@...> wrote: I'm going to start a new subject thread on this issue. I believe
        we've discussed this before. I'm a big fan of turbocharging.

        At 10:30 PM 02/29/2008, you wrote:
        >adding a turbo system isnt goin to add mpgs....and from what ive
        >been told...aint gonna do squadoooche for my torque or power.

        I beg to differ with those statements. It may or may not help your
        MPG a bunch, depends on how many hills you have to climb with the
        pedal to the floor, just to get over the top or drop a gear or two
        and crawl over. A correctly sized and installed turbocharger can
        easily double the HP of any gas engine, but it don't come free. More
        power means more fuel. I believe that using the extra fuel to climb a
        long hill at the speed limit would be more efficient in the long run
        than crawling over at 30 mph.
        Those big tractors you see at the tractor pulls with 1000+ HP do it
        by using multi-staged turbo systems, where one feeds into another. In
        cars, where acceleration is important, turbo setups are a compromise
        between power and the time to spool up (lag time). It's the lag time
        that car folks dislike and the reason they're not used more. Small
        turbos spool quickly, but don't give big HP increases, unless you use
        a bunch. Some exotic (big $$$) sports cars have 4 and more turbos to
        resolve that issue. Some put out 1,000 HP from 8.0L (488 ci). That's
        not much bigger than my 440.
        Back to the real world and our RV's, even a small 6-8 lbs boost,
        which would require no mods to the lower end of the engine, would add
        50% or more to the HP and torque. That's a lot of help. I don't care
        if it takes a second or two for the turbo to spool up, I'm not going
        to be drag racing the semi in the next lane, but I would like to be
        able to pass him on the hills and maintain the speed limit, or close
        to it, while climbing those hills. If it helps the engine to breathe
        better, maybe it can help the MPG a little, it all depends on how
        it's set up. Properly set up, at worst, it won't hurt the MPG.
        The engines from the 60's & 70's (pre-emission and computer) are
        ideal to boost with turbos. There's no computer or anything to worry
        about, just plumbing. The bible of turbocharging is "Turbochargers"
        by Hugh MacInnes, first published in 1976. I do have my copy. It will
        tell you everything you need to know. Now all I need is the $$$ to do it...
        Oh, by the way, I had a 1980 Turbo Mustang GT. It was a 4-cylinder
        and would out run the V-8 Cobra of the same era. There was no
        competition in a road race. With the turbo spooled up and running, it
        out accelerated and handled much better, due to a better weight
        distribution. I surprised a lot of folks in that car. I modified it
        to boost up to 10-12 lbs. Normal max was 8. It would go like the
        proverbial bat. I had it for 150K miles and was sorry to let it go,
        but not enough room for the kids.

        Ron
        76 Coachmen






        ---------------------------------
        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ron Mitchell
        ... I don t think turbocharging would gain you enough efficiency alone to be worth the cost. At best, I d expect 1-2 mpg increase, if any. Its big advantage is
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 1, 2008
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          At 03:59 PM 03/01/2008, you wrote:
          >my issue isnt power....its mpgs!!

          I don't think turbocharging would gain you enough efficiency alone to
          be worth the cost. At best, I'd expect 1-2 mpg increase, if any. Its
          big advantage is being able to boost the power, without costing an
          arm & leg in efficiency, as most superchargers do, especially the
          Roots-type that we're used to seeing on top of dragsters. Those guys
          are measured in gallons per mile. When not in use, a turbocharger
          just sits there, doing nothing and costing nothing.
          Your best bet for efficiency is to install a nice dual exhaust
          setup to increase the airflow efficiency, get a good carburetor on
          it and keep it in top tune. Change the air filter regularly and
          switch to synthetic fluids all around. While synthetics are more
          expensive, they last longer, have lower friction and will help
          increase the mpg numbers. All of this might gain you 2-3 mpg and make
          the cost worthwhile over the long run. Since many RV's sit for long
          periods, the synthetics also have better adhesion properties and help
          prevent corrosion to the drive train. There's no way you're going to
          take a 1970's 14,000+ GVRW vehicle and increase it's mileage from
          8-10 to15-20. Not going to happen. Remember, you're pushing 2 4x8
          sheets of paneling through the air at 50+ mph. But, at $3.00+/gallon,
          even 2-3 mpg would help a lot. You have to measure the cost vs the benefits.

          Ron
          76 Coachmen
        • Ron Mitchell
          Here s the link to Ray Hall Turbocharging in AU. There s free software for download to help out in the various calculations. There s also links to lots of
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 1, 2008
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            Here's the link to Ray Hall Turbocharging in AU. There's free
            software for download to help out in the various calculations.
            There's also links to lots of information on the subject.

            http://www.turbofast.com.au/welcome.html

            Ron
            76 Coachmen
          • chris tryba
            this sounds spot on....any idea what would be an easy swap of my current 555(triple nickle) cummins??? im lookin to take it out and replace it with a more
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 2, 2008
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              this sounds spot on....any idea what would be an "easy" swap of my current 555(triple nickle) cummins??? im lookin to take it out and replace it with a more modern diesle as mine seems to be haing new issues....it has run great for the 4 years ive had it...this past week...it is seeming to "bog down"

              any ideas would be great..

              chris

              Ron Mitchell <rmitchel@...> wrote:
              At 03:59 PM 03/01/2008, you wrote:
              >my issue isnt power....its mpgs!!

              I don't think turbocharging would gain you enough efficiency alone to
              be worth the cost. At best, I'd expect 1-2 mpg increase, if any. Its
              big advantage is being able to boost the power, without costing an
              arm & leg in efficiency, as most superchargers do, especially the
              Roots-type that we're used to seeing on top of dragsters. Those guys
              are measured in gallons per mile. When not in use, a turbocharger
              just sits there, doing nothing and costing nothing.
              Your best bet for efficiency is to install a nice dual exhaust
              setup to increase the airflow efficiency, get a good carburetor on
              it and keep it in top tune. Change the air filter regularly and
              switch to synthetic fluids all around. While synthetics are more
              expensive, they last longer, have lower friction and will help
              increase the mpg numbers. All of this might gain you 2-3 mpg and make
              the cost worthwhile over the long run. Since many RV's sit for long
              periods, the synthetics also have better adhesion properties and help
              prevent corrosion to the drive train. There's no way you're going to
              take a 1970's 14,000+ GVRW vehicle and increase it's mileage from
              8-10 to15-20. Not going to happen. Remember, you're pushing 2 4x8
              sheets of paneling through the air at 50+ mph. But, at $3.00+/gallon,
              even 2-3 mpg would help a lot. You have to measure the cost vs the benefits.

              Ron
              76 Coachmen






              ---------------------------------
              Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ed
              I am no diesel machanic nor do I claim to know anything about them, but it would seem an easy swap and probably have ample power. I would suggest looking for a
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 2, 2008
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                I am no diesel machanic nor do I claim to know anything about them,
                but it would seem an easy swap and probably have ample power.

                I would suggest looking for a wrecked, newer Dodge Ambulance. The
                bigger, and newer, the ambulance is the better. The dodge ambulance
                ran Cummins so I bet it might be an easy swap and have all the torque
                you need to move your motorhome. there would be more than enough power
                for the hills and yet still get better mileage...

                Your radiator will need to be a big one, but I bet you already have a
                big one since you had a diesel already.

                The trick is to find the newest one you can, because they rack up the
                miles quick.

                like I said no knowledge behind it...Just a suggestion

                Ed
              • Scott Williams
                First of all, none of the discussion about turbocharging has been very relevant to diesels. A diesel doesn t have the same issues as a gas engine -
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 3, 2008
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                  First of all, none of the discussion about turbocharging has been very
                  relevant to diesels. A diesel doesn't have the same issues as a gas
                  engine - compression ratio is a big deal with turbos on gas, not so with
                  diesel, for instance. A diesel can make more power with a turbo, even
                  without injecting additional fuel - I know of folks who've tested the
                  theory by adding a turbo to their diesel Mercedes and didn't change
                  anything else. Diesels just work SO differently than cars. A car needs
                  an "ideal" air/fuel ratio (around 12:1 or 15:1, something like that) to
                  make the most power. To make more power in a diesel, you just keep
                  adding fuel, and are only limited by exhaust gas temperatures. Just
                  another point to illustrate that they are totally different animals
                  (turbos on gas vs. diesels.) I have the McInnes book on turbos, not a
                  diesel book.

                  As I said, a diesel can make more power with the addition of a turbo,
                  even when the injection pump is left as-is (in other words, without
                  turning up the fuel.) Also, with the turbo, you don't lose HP when you
                  go up to higher altitudes, or when the air is thinner (like on hot days.)

                  This isn't an argument for adding a turbo to any old diesel engine,
                  though. I would say adding a turbo would be best accomplished if an
                  engine was offered with a turbo as an option. Diesel engines are so
                  much more difficult to hold together that I bet it would be difficult
                  for a do-it-yourselfer (for example, they shake so much more than a gas
                  engine, any welding done on exhaust manifolds to add a turbo mount would
                  be likely to crack.)

                  Just my (perhaps poorly informed) opinions.

                  Scott in Penfield NY

                  chris tryba wrote:
                  > this sounds spot on....any idea what would be an "easy" swap of my current 555(triple nickle) cummins??? im lookin to take it out and replace it with a more modern diesle as mine seems to be haing new issues....it has run great for the 4 years ive had it...this past week...it is seeming to "bog down"
                  >
                  > any ideas would be great..
                  >
                  > chris
                  >
                  > Ron Mitchell <rmitchel@...> wrote:
                  > At 03:59 PM 03/01/2008, you wrote:
                  >> my issue isnt power....its mpgs!!
                  >
                  > I don't think turbocharging would gain you enough efficiency alone to
                  > be worth the cost. At best, I'd expect 1-2 mpg increase, if any. Its
                  > big advantage is being able to boost the power, without costing an
                  > arm & leg in efficiency, as most superchargers do, especially the
                  > Roots-type that we're used to seeing on top of dragsters. Those guys
                  > are measured in gallons per mile. When not in use, a turbocharger
                  > just sits there, doing nothing and costing nothing.
                  > Your best bet for efficiency is to install a nice dual exhaust
                  > setup to increase the airflow efficiency, get a good carburetor on
                  > it and keep it in top tune. Change the air filter regularly and
                  > switch to synthetic fluids all around. While synthetics are more
                  > expensive, they last longer, have lower friction and will help
                  > increase the mpg numbers. All of this might gain you 2-3 mpg and make
                  > the cost worthwhile over the long run. Since many RV's sit for long
                  > periods, the synthetics also have better adhesion properties and help
                  > prevent corrosion to the drive train. There's no way you're going to
                  > take a 1970's 14,000+ GVRW vehicle and increase it's mileage from
                  > 8-10 to15-20. Not going to happen. Remember, you're pushing 2 4x8
                  > sheets of paneling through the air at 50+ mph. But, at $3.00+/gallon,
                  > even 2-3 mpg would help a lot. You have to measure the cost vs the benefits.
                  >
                  > Ron
                  > 76 Coachmen
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Ron Mitchell
                  ... Scott, You are correct. All of the discussion has been on turbocharging gas engines. I know little, except the basic theory, about diesels and make no
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 3, 2008
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                    At 10:46 AM 03/03/2008, you wrote:
                    >First of all, none of the discussion about turbocharging has been very
                    >relevant to diesels.

                    Scott,
                    You are correct. All of the discussion has been on turbocharging
                    gas engines. I know little, except the basic theory, about diesels
                    and make no claims otherwise. I've never owned one. The MacInnes book
                    has one thin chapter on diesels, not too much there.
                    There are, however many kits available out there for diesels.
                    Parts are also available in salvage yards that deal in trucks &
                    equipment. Check out Gale Banks Engineering. They make turbo kits for
                    many diesels (including RV's) from Ford, Dodge, GM, etc. Most of the
                    kits are for later model engines, but I'm sure many could be
                    retro-fitted to older engines. They've been turbocharging diesels for
                    a long time. Check this out:
                    http://www.xtremediesel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=362
                    or Google for "turbocharger kits diesel" for more information.

                    Ron
                    76 Coachmen
                  • Scott Williams
                    The newer, the more computers involved. I d say perhaps finding an older school bus, just make sure it s got a turbo. No reason to skip that on whatever you
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 3, 2008
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                      The newer, the more computers involved. I'd say perhaps finding an
                      older school bus, just make sure it's got a turbo. No reason to skip
                      that on whatever you put in there. I'd guess that you have room to add
                      anything you want, considering you've got a 555 cubic inch diesel V8 in
                      there now. But you'd have to replace the Allison as well, right? Gets
                      complicated in a hurry. Still, an old diesel schoolbus could be a good
                      donor, if you ask me - maybe mid-to-late 1980s. Pre-computers, anyway.

                      But first I'd try to figure out what's wrong with what you have.
                      Perhaps a good diesel purge (run some diesel purge through the injection
                      pump, this is something a lot of Mercedes people do, but I don't know
                      how easy it would be to do it on another engine - you run the injector
                      overflow lines back into the bottle of diesel purge, so it runs around
                      and around inside the engine - use a filter on the intake side so you
                      don't suck any crud back in as the stuff circulates around the system.)
                      Cleans the crud out of the system, some say it is like getting a new
                      engine. Have the injectors tested and maybe balanced. Does the "triple
                      nickel" need to have the valves adjusted? And make sure the linkages
                      are adjusted correctly, if they go out of adjustment you could be
                      running on too much or too little fuel.

                      Depending on the Allison you have, perhaps you're not geared for the
                      open road. Many old busses were made for "in town" driving, so they
                      have the 4 speed Allison and run pretty high RPMs when on the highway.

                      What kind of chassis does this RV have? Was it sold originally with the
                      diesel? Is it a bus conversion? Front or rear engine? How much does
                      it weigh?

                      Scott in Penfield

                      Ed wrote:
                      > I am no diesel machanic nor do I claim to know anything about them,
                      > but it would seem an easy swap and probably have ample power.
                      >
                      > I would suggest looking for a wrecked, newer Dodge Ambulance. The
                      > bigger, and newer, the ambulance is the better. The dodge ambulance
                      > ran Cummins so I bet it might be an easy swap and have all the torque
                      > you need to move your motorhome. there would be more than enough power
                      > for the hills and yet still get better mileage...
                      >
                      > Your radiator will need to be a big one, but I bet you already have a
                      > big one since you had a diesel already.
                      >
                      > The trick is to find the newest one you can, because they rack up the
                      > miles quick.
                      >
                      > like I said no knowledge behind it...Just a suggestion
                      >
                      > Ed
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • chris tryba
                      weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.......called around. cummins rocky mountain phoenix...$122 per hour 2 hour min....fleet pride on black canyon rd dont like workin on
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 3, 2008
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                        weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.......called around. cummins rocky mountain phoenix...$122 per hour 2 hour min....fleet pride on black canyon rd "dont like workin on rvs my shops diry and i dont like gettin rvs dirty"...well after talkin with the guy at Fleet for a while on the phone...i limped my beloved Foretravel cross town. so sad a feelin from the beast she use to be...well, a fuel filter, some transmission fluid poured in the fuel filter, and 10 minutes later, she was as good as new...purrrrrin like the beast she is!!! ew the crud that popped outta that old filter......total cost $77, which obv, if i head any mechanical sense at all coulda been fixed for much less....however, alot better than the $244 i wouldve spent, min., at the cummins place. i know i have a "weak injector" as i blow a little smok...not sure how much of a benefit it would be to have it fixed cost:benefit wise...i have been told it would be better to just leave it be as long as it runs strong/ok...i like
                        the idea of rebuilding the engine...not sure what that would cost...but it running new sounds so appealing!! im headed south to mexico and am thinking of getting some work done there as it will be cheaper...she is very mechanically sound...now only laking a perfect motor...and body/paint job!!!

                        its a 6 speed allison and runs well on the open road...itll cruise at 75 mph @ 3500 rpms all day...except for the ocassional hill that'll slow her down. it is a front mounted motor that was originally a gas power plant..and lies on a dodge chasis...ohhh and she weighs ALOT i reckon...everythigs real wood...no press board in this house : )

                        thanks to all that respounded...this is a really nice place to learn.

                        chris

                        Scott Williams <swillia5@...> wrote:
                        The newer, the more computers involved. I'd say perhaps finding an
                        older school bus, just make sure it's got a turbo. No reason to skip
                        that on whatever you put in there. I'd guess that you have room to add
                        anything you want, considering you've got a 555 cubic inch diesel V8 in
                        there now. But you'd have to replace the Allison as well, right? Gets
                        complicated in a hurry. Still, an old diesel schoolbus could be a good
                        donor, if you ask me - maybe mid-to-late 1980s. Pre-computers, anyway.

                        But first I'd try to figure out what's wrong with what you have.
                        Perhaps a good diesel purge (run some diesel purge through the injection
                        pump, this is something a lot of Mercedes people do, but I don't know
                        how easy it would be to do it on another engine - you run the injector
                        overflow lines back into the bottle of diesel purge, so it runs around
                        and around inside the engine - use a filter on the intake side so you
                        don't suck any crud back in as the stuff circulates around the system.)
                        Cleans the crud out of the system, some say it is like getting a new
                        engine. Have the injectors tested and maybe balanced. Does the "triple
                        nickel" need to have the valves adjusted? And make sure the linkages
                        are adjusted correctly, if they go out of adjustment you could be
                        running on too much or too little fuel.

                        Depending on the Allison you have, perhaps you're not geared for the
                        open road. Many old busses were made for "in town" driving, so they
                        have the 4 speed Allison and run pretty high RPMs when on the highway.

                        What kind of chassis does this RV have? Was it sold originally with the
                        diesel? Is it a bus conversion? Front or rear engine? How much does
                        it weigh?

                        Scott in Penfield

                        Ed wrote:
                        > I am no diesel machanic nor do I claim to know anything about them,
                        > but it would seem an easy swap and probably have ample power.
                        >
                        > I would suggest looking for a wrecked, newer Dodge Ambulance. The
                        > bigger, and newer, the ambulance is the better. The dodge ambulance
                        > ran Cummins so I bet it might be an easy swap and have all the torque
                        > you need to move your motorhome. there would be more than enough power
                        > for the hills and yet still get better mileage...
                        >
                        > Your radiator will need to be a big one, but I bet you already have a
                        > big one since you had a diesel already.
                        >
                        > The trick is to find the newest one you can, because they rack up the
                        > miles quick.
                        >
                        > like I said no knowledge behind it...Just a suggestion
                        >
                        > Ed
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >






                        ---------------------------------
                        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Scott Williams
                        So a simple clogged filter. Great news. You might consider finding a good diesel mechanic down in Mexico and having him rebuild the injectors. An engine
                        Message 11 of 22 , Mar 3, 2008
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                          So a simple clogged filter. Great news. You might consider finding a
                          good diesel mechanic down in Mexico and having him rebuild the
                          injectors. An engine rebuild is probably out of the question, if
                          looking at rebuilt long block prices is any indication ($15,000!!)
                          That's just too rare an engine, and not with a great reputation.
                          However, RVs run fairly low miles, and that engine is probably
                          under-stressed in an RV vs. what it was probably designed for (dump
                          truck, offshore boat, etc.) I bet with care it will last a long time.
                          Diesel care and feeding is different than gas. Keep the oil and fuel
                          filters clean, and you're most of the way there, though.

                          Allison 6 speed, that's a nice one.

                          Scott in Penfield NY


                          chris tryba wrote:
                          > weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.......called around. cummins rocky mountain phoenix...$122 per hour 2 hour min....fleet pride on black canyon rd "dont like workin on rvs my shops diry and i dont like gettin rvs dirty"...well after talkin with the guy at Fleet for a while on the phone...i limped my beloved Foretravel cross town. so sad a feelin from the beast she use to be...well, a fuel filter, some transmission fluid poured in the fuel filter, and 10 minutes later, she was as good as new...purrrrrin like the beast she is!!! ew the crud that popped outta that old filter......total cost $77, which obv, if i head any mechanical sense at all coulda been fixed for much less....however, alot better than the $244 i wouldve spent, min., at the cummins place. i know i have a "weak injector" as i blow a little smok...not sure how much of a benefit it would be to have it fixed cost:benefit wise...i have been told it would be better to just leave it be as long as it runs strong/ok...i lik
                          e
                          > the idea of rebuilding the engine...not sure what that would cost...but it running new sounds so appealing!! im headed south to mexico and am thinking of getting some work done there as it will be cheaper...she is very mechanically sound...now only laking a perfect motor...and body/paint job!!!
                          >
                          > its a 6 speed allison and runs well on the open road...itll cruise at 75 mph @ 3500 rpms all day...except for the ocassional hill that'll slow her down. it is a front mounted motor that was originally a gas power plant..and lies on a dodge chasis...ohhh and she weighs ALOT i reckon...everythigs real wood...no press board in this house : )
                          >
                          > thanks to all that respounded...this is a really nice place to learn.
                          >
                          > chris
                          >
                          > Scott Williams <swillia5@...> wrote:
                          > The newer, the more computers involved. I'd say perhaps finding an
                          > older school bus, just make sure it's got a turbo. No reason to skip
                          > that on whatever you put in there. I'd guess that you have room to add
                          > anything you want, considering you've got a 555 cubic inch diesel V8 in
                          > there now. But you'd have to replace the Allison as well, right? Gets
                          > complicated in a hurry. Still, an old diesel schoolbus could be a good
                          > donor, if you ask me - maybe mid-to-late 1980s. Pre-computers, anyway.
                          >
                          > But first I'd try to figure out what's wrong with what you have.
                          > Perhaps a good diesel purge (run some diesel purge through the injection
                          > pump, this is something a lot of Mercedes people do, but I don't know
                          > how easy it would be to do it on another engine - you run the injector
                          > overflow lines back into the bottle of diesel purge, so it runs around
                          > and around inside the engine - use a filter on the intake side so you
                          > don't suck any crud back in as the stuff circulates around the system.)
                          > Cleans the crud out of the system, some say it is like getting a new
                          > engine. Have the injectors tested and maybe balanced. Does the "triple
                          > nickel" need to have the valves adjusted? And make sure the linkages
                          > are adjusted correctly, if they go out of adjustment you could be
                          > running on too much or too little fuel.
                          >
                          > Depending on the Allison you have, perhaps you're not geared for the
                          > open road. Many old busses were made for "in town" driving, so they
                          > have the 4 speed Allison and run pretty high RPMs when on the highway.
                          >
                          > What kind of chassis does this RV have? Was it sold originally with the
                          > diesel? Is it a bus conversion? Front or rear engine? How much does
                          > it weigh?
                          >
                          > Scott in Penfield
                          >
                          > Ed wrote:
                          >> I am no diesel machanic nor do I claim to know anything about them,
                          >> but it would seem an easy swap and probably have ample power.
                          >>
                          >> I would suggest looking for a wrecked, newer Dodge Ambulance. The
                          >> bigger, and newer, the ambulance is the better. The dodge ambulance
                          >> ran Cummins so I bet it might be an easy swap and have all the torque
                          >> you need to move your motorhome. there would be more than enough power
                          >> for the hills and yet still get better mileage...
                          >>
                          >> Your radiator will need to be a big one, but I bet you already have a
                          >> big one since you had a diesel already.
                          >>
                          >> The trick is to find the newest one you can, because they rack up the
                          >> miles quick.
                          >>
                          >> like I said no knowledge behind it...Just a suggestion
                          >>
                          >> Ed
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • sheinrichs2000
                          Scott, all of your posts have been right on! Yes, a filter - all diesel folks especially should carry an extra one (or two!). I have a 1976 FMC which is a
                          Message 12 of 22 , Mar 4, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Scott, all of your posts have been right on! Yes, a filter - all
                            diesel folks especially should carry an extra one (or two!). I have a
                            1976 FMC which is a rear engined, Chrysler 440-I. I have converted
                            the engine from a Thermoquad carb to Edelbrock MPI fuel injection,
                            transmission from the 3 spd Chrysler to an Allison AT545 4 spd.
                            Starts nice and has added power and a little better mileage.

                            I will at some point be converting it to a Duramax LBZ tubo diesel (I
                            have the engine in the garage). To do that I also need to switch to
                            either a 5 or 6 speed Allison. The 6 speed will give me 1900 rpm at
                            65 mph with the stock rear end. This is a multiyear project acquiring
                            all of the needed parts (transmission, computers, wiring, etc.) and
                            will probably end up costing in the $15-20,000 range. Why do it? This
                            will give me the torgue (600 ftlbs) to pull 6% grades in high gear
                            with my 15,000 lb coach. Is it cost effective? NO. But some things
                            jsut need to be done and done correctly well. I never had a hot car
                            in my youth, so I guess this is my outlet!

                            Stephen H.

                            --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Scott Williams <swillia5@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > So a simple clogged filter. Great news. You might consider
                            finding a
                            > good diesel mechanic down in Mexico and having him rebuild the
                            > injectors. An engine rebuild is probably out of the question, if
                            > looking at rebuilt long block prices is any indication ($15,000!!)
                            > That's just too rare an engine, and not with a great reputation.
                            > However, RVs run fairly low miles, and that engine is probably
                            > under-stressed in an RV vs. what it was probably designed for (dump
                            > truck, offshore boat, etc.) I bet with care it will last a long
                            time.
                            > Diesel care and feeding is different than gas. Keep the oil and
                            fuel
                            > filters clean, and you're most of the way there, though.
                            >
                            > Allison 6 speed, that's a nice one.
                            >
                            > Scott in Penfield NY
                            >
                            >
                            > chris tryba wrote:
                            > > ... so sad a feelin from the beast she use to be...well, a fuel
                            filter, some transmission fluid poured in the fuel filter, and 10
                            minutes later, she was as good as new...purrrrrin like the beast she
                            is!!! ew the crud that popped outta that old filter......total cost
                            $77
                            > > its a 6 speed allison and runs well on the open road...itll
                            cruise at 75 mph @ 3500 rpms all day...
                          • Ron Mitchell
                            Stephen, Nice coach, I saw a picture on another site. What s an Edelbrock MPI system like that cost for a 440? That looks the a nice setup. Ron 76 Coachemn ...
                            Message 13 of 22 , Mar 4, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Stephen,
                              Nice coach, I saw a picture on another site. What's an Edelbrock
                              MPI system like that cost for a 440? That looks the a nice setup.

                              Ron
                              76 Coachemn

                              At 10:43 AM 03/04/2008, you wrote:

                              >Scott, all of your posts have been right on! Yes, a filter - all
                              >diesel folks especially should carry an extra one (or two!). I have a
                              >1976 FMC which is a rear engined, Chrysler 440-I. I have converted
                              >the engine from a Thermoquad carb to Edelbrock MPI fuel injection,
                              >transmission from the 3 spd Chrysler to an Allison AT545 4 spd.
                              >Starts nice and has added power and a little better mileage.
                              >
                              >I will at some point be converting it to a Duramax LBZ tubo diesel (I
                              >have the engine in the garage). To do that I also need to switch to
                              >either a 5 or 6 speed Allison. The 6 speed will give me 1900 rpm at
                              >65 mph with the stock rear end. This is a multiyear project acquiring
                              >all of the needed parts (transmission, computers, wiring, etc.) and
                              >will probably end up costing in the $15-20,000 range. Why do it? This
                              >will give me the torgue (600 ftlbs) to pull 6% grades in high gear
                              >with my 15,000 lb coach. Is it cost effective? NO. But some things
                              >jsut need to be done and done correctly well. I never had a hot car
                              >in my youth, so I guess this is my outlet!
                              >
                              >Stephen H.
                              >
                              >--- In
                              ><mailto:classicrv%40yahoogroups.com>classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Scott
                              >Williams <swillia5@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > So a simple clogged filter. Great news. You might consider
                              >finding a
                              > > good diesel mechanic down in Mexico and having him rebuild the
                              > > injectors. An engine rebuild is probably out of the question, if
                              > > looking at rebuilt long block prices is any indication ($15,000!!)
                              > > That's just too rare an engine, and not with a great reputation.
                              > > However, RVs run fairly low miles, and that engine is probably
                              > > under-stressed in an RV vs. what it was probably designed for (dump
                              > > truck, offshore boat, etc.) I bet with care it will last a long
                              >time.
                              > > Diesel care and feeding is different than gas. Keep the oil and
                              >fuel
                              > > filters clean, and you're most of the way there, though.
                              > >
                              > > Allison 6 speed, that's a nice one.
                              > >
                              > > Scott in Penfield NY
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > chris tryba wrote:
                              > > > ... so sad a feelin from the beast she use to be...well, a fuel
                              >filter, some transmission fluid poured in the fuel filter, and 10
                              >minutes later, she was as good as new...purrrrrin like the beast she
                              >is!!! ew the crud that popped outta that old filter......total cost
                              >$77
                              > > > its a 6 speed allison and runs well on the open road...itll
                              >cruise at 75 mph @ 3500 rpms all day...
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • sheinrichs2000
                              Ron, thanks for the compliment. Edelbrock system was close to $3,000, but changed the character of the 440. Once, just for grins, I pulled the Grapevine north
                              Message 14 of 22 , Mar 4, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Ron, thanks for the compliment. Edelbrock system was close to
                                $3,000, but changed the character of the 440. Once, just for grins, I
                                pulled the Grapevine north of LA (7 mile 6-7% grade) in high gear.
                                It lugged the engine down to around 23-2500 rpm which is not good for
                                it but had to do it just once! Normally, on a grade like that, when
                                the rpm's drop I shift down to 3rd and then just hold the rpm at 37-
                                3800 which is about 55mph in my coach. For others here is a link to a
                                picture of my coach in my driveway. http://www.datastormusers.com/cgi-
                                bin/album.pl?photo=00002569/P9300007.JPG;photo_height=600 . If not
                                clickable, cut and paste.

                                Stephen

                                --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Ron Mitchell <rmitchel@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Stephen,
                                > Nice coach, I saw a picture on another site. What's an Edelbrock
                                > MPI system like that cost for a 440? That looks the a nice setup.
                                >
                                > Ron
                                > 76 Coachemn
                                >
                                > At 10:43 AM 03/04/2008, you wrote:
                                >
                                > >Scott, all of your posts have been right on! Yes, a filter - all
                                > >diesel folks especially should carry an extra one (or two!). I
                                have a
                                > >1976 FMC which is a rear engined, Chrysler 440-I. I have converted
                                > >the engine from a Thermoquad carb to Edelbrock MPI fuel injection,
                                > >transmission from the 3 spd Chrysler to an Allison AT545 4 spd.
                                > >Starts nice and has added power and a little better mileage.
                                > >
                                > >I will at some point be converting it to a Duramax LBZ tubo diesel
                                (I
                                > >have the engine in the garage). To do that I also need to switch to
                                > >either a 5 or 6 speed Allison. The 6 speed will give me 1900 rpm at
                                > >65 mph with the stock rear end. This is a multiyear project
                                acquiring
                                > >all of the needed parts (transmission, computers, wiring, etc.) and
                                > >will probably end up costing in the $15-20,000 range. Why do it?
                                This
                                > >will give me the torgue (600 ftlbs) to pull 6% grades in high gear
                                > >with my 15,000 lb coach. Is it cost effective? NO. But some things
                                > >jsut need to be done and done correctly well. I never had a hot car
                                > >in my youth, so I guess this is my outlet!
                                > >
                                > >Stephen H.
                                > >
                              • Ron Mitchell
                                Being able to pull a grade like that at 55 is a good thing, whatever gear you re in. Ron 76 Coachmen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Message 15 of 22 , Mar 5, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Being able to pull a grade like that at 55 is a good thing, whatever
                                  gear you're in.

                                  Ron
                                  76 Coachmen

                                  At 01:32 AM 03/05/2008, you wrote:

                                  >Ron, thanks for the compliment. Edelbrock system was close to
                                  >$3,000, but changed the character of the 440. Once, just for grins, I
                                  >pulled the Grapevine north of LA (7 mile 6-7% grade) in high gear.
                                  >It lugged the engine down to around 23-2500 rpm which is not good for
                                  >it but had to do it just once! Normally, on a grade like that, when
                                  >the rpm's drop I shift down to 3rd and then just hold the rpm at 37-
                                  >3800 which is about 55mph in my coach. For others here is a link to a
                                  >picture of my coach in my driveway.
                                  ><http://www.datastormusers.com/cgi->http://www.datastormusers.com/cgi-
                                  >bin/album.pl?photo=00002569/P9300007.JPG;photo_height=600 . If not
                                  >clickable, cut and paste.
                                  >
                                  >Stephen
                                  >
                                  >--- In
                                  ><mailto:classicrv%40yahoogroups.com>classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Ron
                                  >Mitchell <rmitchel@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Stephen,
                                  > > Nice coach, I saw a picture on another site. What's an Edelbrock
                                  > > MPI system like that cost for a 440? That looks the a nice setup.
                                  > >
                                  > > Ron
                                  > > 76 Coachemn
                                  > >
                                  > > At 10:43 AM 03/04/2008, you wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > >Scott, all of your posts have been right on! Yes, a filter - all
                                  > > >diesel folks especially should carry an extra one (or two!). I
                                  >have a
                                  > > >1976 FMC which is a rear engined, Chrysler 440-I. I have converted
                                  > > >the engine from a Thermoquad carb to Edelbrock MPI fuel injection,
                                  > > >transmission from the 3 spd Chrysler to an Allison AT545 4 spd.
                                  > > >Starts nice and has added power and a little better mileage.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >I will at some point be converting it to a Duramax LBZ tubo diesel
                                  >(I
                                  > > >have the engine in the garage). To do that I also need to switch to
                                  > > >either a 5 or 6 speed Allison. The 6 speed will give me 1900 rpm at
                                  > > >65 mph with the stock rear end. This is a multiyear project
                                  >acquiring
                                  > > >all of the needed parts (transmission, computers, wiring, etc.) and
                                  > > >will probably end up costing in the $15-20,000 range. Why do it?
                                  >This
                                  > > >will give me the torgue (600 ftlbs) to pull 6% grades in high gear
                                  > > >with my 15,000 lb coach. Is it cost effective? NO. But some things
                                  > > >jsut need to be done and done correctly well. I never had a hot car
                                  > > >in my youth, so I guess this is my outlet!
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Stephen H.
                                  > > >
                                  >
                                  >


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