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Re: [classicrv] Re: REPLACING MY DIESEL

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  • chris tryba
    adding a turbo system isnt goin to add mpgs....and from what ive been told...aint gonna do squadoooche for my torque or power. betnden@peoplepc.com wrote:
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 29, 2008
      adding a turbo system isnt goin to add mpgs....and from what ive been told...aint gonna do squadoooche for my torque or power.

      betnden@... wrote: The short answer is TURBOS! Banks engineering makes systems and designed
      parts for almost every combination if you don't want to DIY. You'll get more
      power and some more torque when the turbos are spooled up. Add a shot of
      propane when climbing hills and you'll be surprised at the response. Even
      with gas engines the turbos are a great help in power and mileage. With
      today's fuel prices, I'm going to look for every savings I can find, and it
      won't be in diesel territory. In my area, gas prices went to $3/gal and
      diesel jumped to $3.60/gal in one week. It's tough for those of us that are
      on small fixed incomes. :(

      Dennis in eastexas- staying home a lot...

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "chris tryba" <christryba@...>
      To: <classicrv@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 6:04 AM
      Subject: Re: [classicrv] Re: REPLACING MY DIESEL

      > hola...
      >
      > its actually a cummins 555 or triple nickle....8 cylinder...with an
      > allison transmission. id loooooooove to get 12 mpg...that would almost
      > dbl my mileage : ( i dont have any problems with the power...itll
      > go...but the past few times out it has seem a little sluggish in a strange
      > way..not sure. just lookin for options!!!
      >
      > ty
      >
      > chris
      >
      > Jim <jim@...> wrote:
      > Not familiar with the cat555. Does it run?
      > What kind of transmission?
      >
      > I have an 83 champion 24' with a GM 6.2 diesel auto trans.
      > It gets 12mpg if you don't push it.
      > It is in the process of being disassembled and recycled.
      >
      > My replacement is a 95 safari trek 33' with a GM 6.5TD which
      > overheated and toasted the engine. I have the blown engine out.
      > I bought a wrecked 'tater chip van to take the engine out for a
      > replacement. I almost have the engine out of it....GM 6.5na.
      > I don't yet know if I can put the turbo on. The 6.5na is rated 160hp
      > and the 6.5TD is rated 195hp...not a whole lot of difference. The
      > newer engines go 300hp and up, but I'm not in a real hurry.
      >
      > -jim






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    • Ron Mitchell
      I m going to start a new subject thread on this issue. I believe we ve discussed this before. I m a big fan of turbocharging. ... I beg to differ with those
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 1, 2008
        I'm going to start a new subject thread on this issue. I believe
        we've discussed this before. I'm a big fan of turbocharging.

        At 10:30 PM 02/29/2008, you wrote:
        >adding a turbo system isnt goin to add mpgs....and from what ive
        >been told...aint gonna do squadoooche for my torque or power.

        I beg to differ with those statements. It may or may not help your
        MPG a bunch, depends on how many hills you have to climb with the
        pedal to the floor, just to get over the top or drop a gear or two
        and crawl over. A correctly sized and installed turbocharger can
        easily double the HP of any gas engine, but it don't come free. More
        power means more fuel. I believe that using the extra fuel to climb a
        long hill at the speed limit would be more efficient in the long run
        than crawling over at 30 mph.
        Those big tractors you see at the tractor pulls with 1000+ HP do it
        by using multi-staged turbo systems, where one feeds into another. In
        cars, where acceleration is important, turbo setups are a compromise
        between power and the time to spool up (lag time). It's the lag time
        that car folks dislike and the reason they're not used more. Small
        turbos spool quickly, but don't give big HP increases, unless you use
        a bunch. Some exotic (big $$$) sports cars have 4 and more turbos to
        resolve that issue. Some put out 1,000 HP from 8.0L (488 ci). That's
        not much bigger than my 440.
        Back to the real world and our RV's, even a small 6-8 lbs boost,
        which would require no mods to the lower end of the engine, would add
        50% or more to the HP and torque. That's a lot of help. I don't care
        if it takes a second or two for the turbo to spool up, I'm not going
        to be drag racing the semi in the next lane, but I would like to be
        able to pass him on the hills and maintain the speed limit, or close
        to it, while climbing those hills. If it helps the engine to breathe
        better, maybe it can help the MPG a little, it all depends on how
        it's set up. Properly set up, at worst, it won't hurt the MPG.
        The engines from the 60's & 70's (pre-emission and computer) are
        ideal to boost with turbos. There's no computer or anything to worry
        about, just plumbing. The bible of turbocharging is "Turbochargers"
        by Hugh MacInnes, first published in 1976. I do have my copy. It will
        tell you everything you need to know. Now all I need is the $$$ to do it...
        Oh, by the way, I had a 1980 Turbo Mustang GT. It was a 4-cylinder
        and would out run the V-8 Cobra of the same era. There was no
        competition in a road race. With the turbo spooled up and running, it
        out accelerated and handled much better, due to a better weight
        distribution. I surprised a lot of folks in that car. I modified it
        to boost up to 10-12 lbs. Normal max was 8. It would go like the
        proverbial bat. I had it for 150K miles and was sorry to let it go,
        but not enough room for the kids.

        Ron
        76 Coachmen
      • chris tryba
        my issue isnt power....its mpgs!! Ron Mitchell wrote: I m going to start a new subject thread on this issue. I believe we ve
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 1, 2008
          my issue isnt power....its mpgs!!

          Ron Mitchell <rmitchel@...> wrote: I'm going to start a new subject thread on this issue. I believe
          we've discussed this before. I'm a big fan of turbocharging.

          At 10:30 PM 02/29/2008, you wrote:
          >adding a turbo system isnt goin to add mpgs....and from what ive
          >been told...aint gonna do squadoooche for my torque or power.

          I beg to differ with those statements. It may or may not help your
          MPG a bunch, depends on how many hills you have to climb with the
          pedal to the floor, just to get over the top or drop a gear or two
          and crawl over. A correctly sized and installed turbocharger can
          easily double the HP of any gas engine, but it don't come free. More
          power means more fuel. I believe that using the extra fuel to climb a
          long hill at the speed limit would be more efficient in the long run
          than crawling over at 30 mph.
          Those big tractors you see at the tractor pulls with 1000+ HP do it
          by using multi-staged turbo systems, where one feeds into another. In
          cars, where acceleration is important, turbo setups are a compromise
          between power and the time to spool up (lag time). It's the lag time
          that car folks dislike and the reason they're not used more. Small
          turbos spool quickly, but don't give big HP increases, unless you use
          a bunch. Some exotic (big $$$) sports cars have 4 and more turbos to
          resolve that issue. Some put out 1,000 HP from 8.0L (488 ci). That's
          not much bigger than my 440.
          Back to the real world and our RV's, even a small 6-8 lbs boost,
          which would require no mods to the lower end of the engine, would add
          50% or more to the HP and torque. That's a lot of help. I don't care
          if it takes a second or two for the turbo to spool up, I'm not going
          to be drag racing the semi in the next lane, but I would like to be
          able to pass him on the hills and maintain the speed limit, or close
          to it, while climbing those hills. If it helps the engine to breathe
          better, maybe it can help the MPG a little, it all depends on how
          it's set up. Properly set up, at worst, it won't hurt the MPG.
          The engines from the 60's & 70's (pre-emission and computer) are
          ideal to boost with turbos. There's no computer or anything to worry
          about, just plumbing. The bible of turbocharging is "Turbochargers"
          by Hugh MacInnes, first published in 1976. I do have my copy. It will
          tell you everything you need to know. Now all I need is the $$$ to do it...
          Oh, by the way, I had a 1980 Turbo Mustang GT. It was a 4-cylinder
          and would out run the V-8 Cobra of the same era. There was no
          competition in a road race. With the turbo spooled up and running, it
          out accelerated and handled much better, due to a better weight
          distribution. I surprised a lot of folks in that car. I modified it
          to boost up to 10-12 lbs. Normal max was 8. It would go like the
          proverbial bat. I had it for 150K miles and was sorry to let it go,
          but not enough room for the kids.

          Ron
          76 Coachmen






          ---------------------------------
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ron Mitchell
          ... I don t think turbocharging would gain you enough efficiency alone to be worth the cost. At best, I d expect 1-2 mpg increase, if any. Its big advantage is
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 1, 2008
            At 03:59 PM 03/01/2008, you wrote:
            >my issue isnt power....its mpgs!!

            I don't think turbocharging would gain you enough efficiency alone to
            be worth the cost. At best, I'd expect 1-2 mpg increase, if any. Its
            big advantage is being able to boost the power, without costing an
            arm & leg in efficiency, as most superchargers do, especially the
            Roots-type that we're used to seeing on top of dragsters. Those guys
            are measured in gallons per mile. When not in use, a turbocharger
            just sits there, doing nothing and costing nothing.
            Your best bet for efficiency is to install a nice dual exhaust
            setup to increase the airflow efficiency, get a good carburetor on
            it and keep it in top tune. Change the air filter regularly and
            switch to synthetic fluids all around. While synthetics are more
            expensive, they last longer, have lower friction and will help
            increase the mpg numbers. All of this might gain you 2-3 mpg and make
            the cost worthwhile over the long run. Since many RV's sit for long
            periods, the synthetics also have better adhesion properties and help
            prevent corrosion to the drive train. There's no way you're going to
            take a 1970's 14,000+ GVRW vehicle and increase it's mileage from
            8-10 to15-20. Not going to happen. Remember, you're pushing 2 4x8
            sheets of paneling through the air at 50+ mph. But, at $3.00+/gallon,
            even 2-3 mpg would help a lot. You have to measure the cost vs the benefits.

            Ron
            76 Coachmen
          • Ron Mitchell
            Here s the link to Ray Hall Turbocharging in AU. There s free software for download to help out in the various calculations. There s also links to lots of
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 1, 2008
              Here's the link to Ray Hall Turbocharging in AU. There's free
              software for download to help out in the various calculations.
              There's also links to lots of information on the subject.

              http://www.turbofast.com.au/welcome.html

              Ron
              76 Coachmen
            • chris tryba
              this sounds spot on....any idea what would be an easy swap of my current 555(triple nickle) cummins??? im lookin to take it out and replace it with a more
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 2, 2008
                this sounds spot on....any idea what would be an "easy" swap of my current 555(triple nickle) cummins??? im lookin to take it out and replace it with a more modern diesle as mine seems to be haing new issues....it has run great for the 4 years ive had it...this past week...it is seeming to "bog down"

                any ideas would be great..

                chris

                Ron Mitchell <rmitchel@...> wrote:
                At 03:59 PM 03/01/2008, you wrote:
                >my issue isnt power....its mpgs!!

                I don't think turbocharging would gain you enough efficiency alone to
                be worth the cost. At best, I'd expect 1-2 mpg increase, if any. Its
                big advantage is being able to boost the power, without costing an
                arm & leg in efficiency, as most superchargers do, especially the
                Roots-type that we're used to seeing on top of dragsters. Those guys
                are measured in gallons per mile. When not in use, a turbocharger
                just sits there, doing nothing and costing nothing.
                Your best bet for efficiency is to install a nice dual exhaust
                setup to increase the airflow efficiency, get a good carburetor on
                it and keep it in top tune. Change the air filter regularly and
                switch to synthetic fluids all around. While synthetics are more
                expensive, they last longer, have lower friction and will help
                increase the mpg numbers. All of this might gain you 2-3 mpg and make
                the cost worthwhile over the long run. Since many RV's sit for long
                periods, the synthetics also have better adhesion properties and help
                prevent corrosion to the drive train. There's no way you're going to
                take a 1970's 14,000+ GVRW vehicle and increase it's mileage from
                8-10 to15-20. Not going to happen. Remember, you're pushing 2 4x8
                sheets of paneling through the air at 50+ mph. But, at $3.00+/gallon,
                even 2-3 mpg would help a lot. You have to measure the cost vs the benefits.

                Ron
                76 Coachmen






                ---------------------------------
                Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ed
                I am no diesel machanic nor do I claim to know anything about them, but it would seem an easy swap and probably have ample power. I would suggest looking for a
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 2, 2008
                  I am no diesel machanic nor do I claim to know anything about them,
                  but it would seem an easy swap and probably have ample power.

                  I would suggest looking for a wrecked, newer Dodge Ambulance. The
                  bigger, and newer, the ambulance is the better. The dodge ambulance
                  ran Cummins so I bet it might be an easy swap and have all the torque
                  you need to move your motorhome. there would be more than enough power
                  for the hills and yet still get better mileage...

                  Your radiator will need to be a big one, but I bet you already have a
                  big one since you had a diesel already.

                  The trick is to find the newest one you can, because they rack up the
                  miles quick.

                  like I said no knowledge behind it...Just a suggestion

                  Ed
                • Scott Williams
                  First of all, none of the discussion about turbocharging has been very relevant to diesels. A diesel doesn t have the same issues as a gas engine -
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 3, 2008
                    First of all, none of the discussion about turbocharging has been very
                    relevant to diesels. A diesel doesn't have the same issues as a gas
                    engine - compression ratio is a big deal with turbos on gas, not so with
                    diesel, for instance. A diesel can make more power with a turbo, even
                    without injecting additional fuel - I know of folks who've tested the
                    theory by adding a turbo to their diesel Mercedes and didn't change
                    anything else. Diesels just work SO differently than cars. A car needs
                    an "ideal" air/fuel ratio (around 12:1 or 15:1, something like that) to
                    make the most power. To make more power in a diesel, you just keep
                    adding fuel, and are only limited by exhaust gas temperatures. Just
                    another point to illustrate that they are totally different animals
                    (turbos on gas vs. diesels.) I have the McInnes book on turbos, not a
                    diesel book.

                    As I said, a diesel can make more power with the addition of a turbo,
                    even when the injection pump is left as-is (in other words, without
                    turning up the fuel.) Also, with the turbo, you don't lose HP when you
                    go up to higher altitudes, or when the air is thinner (like on hot days.)

                    This isn't an argument for adding a turbo to any old diesel engine,
                    though. I would say adding a turbo would be best accomplished if an
                    engine was offered with a turbo as an option. Diesel engines are so
                    much more difficult to hold together that I bet it would be difficult
                    for a do-it-yourselfer (for example, they shake so much more than a gas
                    engine, any welding done on exhaust manifolds to add a turbo mount would
                    be likely to crack.)

                    Just my (perhaps poorly informed) opinions.

                    Scott in Penfield NY

                    chris tryba wrote:
                    > this sounds spot on....any idea what would be an "easy" swap of my current 555(triple nickle) cummins??? im lookin to take it out and replace it with a more modern diesle as mine seems to be haing new issues....it has run great for the 4 years ive had it...this past week...it is seeming to "bog down"
                    >
                    > any ideas would be great..
                    >
                    > chris
                    >
                    > Ron Mitchell <rmitchel@...> wrote:
                    > At 03:59 PM 03/01/2008, you wrote:
                    >> my issue isnt power....its mpgs!!
                    >
                    > I don't think turbocharging would gain you enough efficiency alone to
                    > be worth the cost. At best, I'd expect 1-2 mpg increase, if any. Its
                    > big advantage is being able to boost the power, without costing an
                    > arm & leg in efficiency, as most superchargers do, especially the
                    > Roots-type that we're used to seeing on top of dragsters. Those guys
                    > are measured in gallons per mile. When not in use, a turbocharger
                    > just sits there, doing nothing and costing nothing.
                    > Your best bet for efficiency is to install a nice dual exhaust
                    > setup to increase the airflow efficiency, get a good carburetor on
                    > it and keep it in top tune. Change the air filter regularly and
                    > switch to synthetic fluids all around. While synthetics are more
                    > expensive, they last longer, have lower friction and will help
                    > increase the mpg numbers. All of this might gain you 2-3 mpg and make
                    > the cost worthwhile over the long run. Since many RV's sit for long
                    > periods, the synthetics also have better adhesion properties and help
                    > prevent corrosion to the drive train. There's no way you're going to
                    > take a 1970's 14,000+ GVRW vehicle and increase it's mileage from
                    > 8-10 to15-20. Not going to happen. Remember, you're pushing 2 4x8
                    > sheets of paneling through the air at 50+ mph. But, at $3.00+/gallon,
                    > even 2-3 mpg would help a lot. You have to measure the cost vs the benefits.
                    >
                    > Ron
                    > 76 Coachmen
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Ron Mitchell
                    ... Scott, You are correct. All of the discussion has been on turbocharging gas engines. I know little, except the basic theory, about diesels and make no
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 3, 2008
                      At 10:46 AM 03/03/2008, you wrote:
                      >First of all, none of the discussion about turbocharging has been very
                      >relevant to diesels.

                      Scott,
                      You are correct. All of the discussion has been on turbocharging
                      gas engines. I know little, except the basic theory, about diesels
                      and make no claims otherwise. I've never owned one. The MacInnes book
                      has one thin chapter on diesels, not too much there.
                      There are, however many kits available out there for diesels.
                      Parts are also available in salvage yards that deal in trucks &
                      equipment. Check out Gale Banks Engineering. They make turbo kits for
                      many diesels (including RV's) from Ford, Dodge, GM, etc. Most of the
                      kits are for later model engines, but I'm sure many could be
                      retro-fitted to older engines. They've been turbocharging diesels for
                      a long time. Check this out:
                      http://www.xtremediesel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=362
                      or Google for "turbocharger kits diesel" for more information.

                      Ron
                      76 Coachmen
                    • Scott Williams
                      The newer, the more computers involved. I d say perhaps finding an older school bus, just make sure it s got a turbo. No reason to skip that on whatever you
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 3, 2008
                        The newer, the more computers involved. I'd say perhaps finding an
                        older school bus, just make sure it's got a turbo. No reason to skip
                        that on whatever you put in there. I'd guess that you have room to add
                        anything you want, considering you've got a 555 cubic inch diesel V8 in
                        there now. But you'd have to replace the Allison as well, right? Gets
                        complicated in a hurry. Still, an old diesel schoolbus could be a good
                        donor, if you ask me - maybe mid-to-late 1980s. Pre-computers, anyway.

                        But first I'd try to figure out what's wrong with what you have.
                        Perhaps a good diesel purge (run some diesel purge through the injection
                        pump, this is something a lot of Mercedes people do, but I don't know
                        how easy it would be to do it on another engine - you run the injector
                        overflow lines back into the bottle of diesel purge, so it runs around
                        and around inside the engine - use a filter on the intake side so you
                        don't suck any crud back in as the stuff circulates around the system.)
                        Cleans the crud out of the system, some say it is like getting a new
                        engine. Have the injectors tested and maybe balanced. Does the "triple
                        nickel" need to have the valves adjusted? And make sure the linkages
                        are adjusted correctly, if they go out of adjustment you could be
                        running on too much or too little fuel.

                        Depending on the Allison you have, perhaps you're not geared for the
                        open road. Many old busses were made for "in town" driving, so they
                        have the 4 speed Allison and run pretty high RPMs when on the highway.

                        What kind of chassis does this RV have? Was it sold originally with the
                        diesel? Is it a bus conversion? Front or rear engine? How much does
                        it weigh?

                        Scott in Penfield

                        Ed wrote:
                        > I am no diesel machanic nor do I claim to know anything about them,
                        > but it would seem an easy swap and probably have ample power.
                        >
                        > I would suggest looking for a wrecked, newer Dodge Ambulance. The
                        > bigger, and newer, the ambulance is the better. The dodge ambulance
                        > ran Cummins so I bet it might be an easy swap and have all the torque
                        > you need to move your motorhome. there would be more than enough power
                        > for the hills and yet still get better mileage...
                        >
                        > Your radiator will need to be a big one, but I bet you already have a
                        > big one since you had a diesel already.
                        >
                        > The trick is to find the newest one you can, because they rack up the
                        > miles quick.
                        >
                        > like I said no knowledge behind it...Just a suggestion
                        >
                        > Ed
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • chris tryba
                        weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.......called around. cummins rocky mountain phoenix...$122 per hour 2 hour min....fleet pride on black canyon rd dont like workin on
                        Message 11 of 22 , Mar 3, 2008
                          weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.......called around. cummins rocky mountain phoenix...$122 per hour 2 hour min....fleet pride on black canyon rd "dont like workin on rvs my shops diry and i dont like gettin rvs dirty"...well after talkin with the guy at Fleet for a while on the phone...i limped my beloved Foretravel cross town. so sad a feelin from the beast she use to be...well, a fuel filter, some transmission fluid poured in the fuel filter, and 10 minutes later, she was as good as new...purrrrrin like the beast she is!!! ew the crud that popped outta that old filter......total cost $77, which obv, if i head any mechanical sense at all coulda been fixed for much less....however, alot better than the $244 i wouldve spent, min., at the cummins place. i know i have a "weak injector" as i blow a little smok...not sure how much of a benefit it would be to have it fixed cost:benefit wise...i have been told it would be better to just leave it be as long as it runs strong/ok...i like
                          the idea of rebuilding the engine...not sure what that would cost...but it running new sounds so appealing!! im headed south to mexico and am thinking of getting some work done there as it will be cheaper...she is very mechanically sound...now only laking a perfect motor...and body/paint job!!!

                          its a 6 speed allison and runs well on the open road...itll cruise at 75 mph @ 3500 rpms all day...except for the ocassional hill that'll slow her down. it is a front mounted motor that was originally a gas power plant..and lies on a dodge chasis...ohhh and she weighs ALOT i reckon...everythigs real wood...no press board in this house : )

                          thanks to all that respounded...this is a really nice place to learn.

                          chris

                          Scott Williams <swillia5@...> wrote:
                          The newer, the more computers involved. I'd say perhaps finding an
                          older school bus, just make sure it's got a turbo. No reason to skip
                          that on whatever you put in there. I'd guess that you have room to add
                          anything you want, considering you've got a 555 cubic inch diesel V8 in
                          there now. But you'd have to replace the Allison as well, right? Gets
                          complicated in a hurry. Still, an old diesel schoolbus could be a good
                          donor, if you ask me - maybe mid-to-late 1980s. Pre-computers, anyway.

                          But first I'd try to figure out what's wrong with what you have.
                          Perhaps a good diesel purge (run some diesel purge through the injection
                          pump, this is something a lot of Mercedes people do, but I don't know
                          how easy it would be to do it on another engine - you run the injector
                          overflow lines back into the bottle of diesel purge, so it runs around
                          and around inside the engine - use a filter on the intake side so you
                          don't suck any crud back in as the stuff circulates around the system.)
                          Cleans the crud out of the system, some say it is like getting a new
                          engine. Have the injectors tested and maybe balanced. Does the "triple
                          nickel" need to have the valves adjusted? And make sure the linkages
                          are adjusted correctly, if they go out of adjustment you could be
                          running on too much or too little fuel.

                          Depending on the Allison you have, perhaps you're not geared for the
                          open road. Many old busses were made for "in town" driving, so they
                          have the 4 speed Allison and run pretty high RPMs when on the highway.

                          What kind of chassis does this RV have? Was it sold originally with the
                          diesel? Is it a bus conversion? Front or rear engine? How much does
                          it weigh?

                          Scott in Penfield

                          Ed wrote:
                          > I am no diesel machanic nor do I claim to know anything about them,
                          > but it would seem an easy swap and probably have ample power.
                          >
                          > I would suggest looking for a wrecked, newer Dodge Ambulance. The
                          > bigger, and newer, the ambulance is the better. The dodge ambulance
                          > ran Cummins so I bet it might be an easy swap and have all the torque
                          > you need to move your motorhome. there would be more than enough power
                          > for the hills and yet still get better mileage...
                          >
                          > Your radiator will need to be a big one, but I bet you already have a
                          > big one since you had a diesel already.
                          >
                          > The trick is to find the newest one you can, because they rack up the
                          > miles quick.
                          >
                          > like I said no knowledge behind it...Just a suggestion
                          >
                          > Ed
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >






                          ---------------------------------
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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Scott Williams
                          So a simple clogged filter. Great news. You might consider finding a good diesel mechanic down in Mexico and having him rebuild the injectors. An engine
                          Message 12 of 22 , Mar 3, 2008
                            So a simple clogged filter. Great news. You might consider finding a
                            good diesel mechanic down in Mexico and having him rebuild the
                            injectors. An engine rebuild is probably out of the question, if
                            looking at rebuilt long block prices is any indication ($15,000!!)
                            That's just too rare an engine, and not with a great reputation.
                            However, RVs run fairly low miles, and that engine is probably
                            under-stressed in an RV vs. what it was probably designed for (dump
                            truck, offshore boat, etc.) I bet with care it will last a long time.
                            Diesel care and feeding is different than gas. Keep the oil and fuel
                            filters clean, and you're most of the way there, though.

                            Allison 6 speed, that's a nice one.

                            Scott in Penfield NY


                            chris tryba wrote:
                            > weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.......called around. cummins rocky mountain phoenix...$122 per hour 2 hour min....fleet pride on black canyon rd "dont like workin on rvs my shops diry and i dont like gettin rvs dirty"...well after talkin with the guy at Fleet for a while on the phone...i limped my beloved Foretravel cross town. so sad a feelin from the beast she use to be...well, a fuel filter, some transmission fluid poured in the fuel filter, and 10 minutes later, she was as good as new...purrrrrin like the beast she is!!! ew the crud that popped outta that old filter......total cost $77, which obv, if i head any mechanical sense at all coulda been fixed for much less....however, alot better than the $244 i wouldve spent, min., at the cummins place. i know i have a "weak injector" as i blow a little smok...not sure how much of a benefit it would be to have it fixed cost:benefit wise...i have been told it would be better to just leave it be as long as it runs strong/ok...i lik
                            e
                            > the idea of rebuilding the engine...not sure what that would cost...but it running new sounds so appealing!! im headed south to mexico and am thinking of getting some work done there as it will be cheaper...she is very mechanically sound...now only laking a perfect motor...and body/paint job!!!
                            >
                            > its a 6 speed allison and runs well on the open road...itll cruise at 75 mph @ 3500 rpms all day...except for the ocassional hill that'll slow her down. it is a front mounted motor that was originally a gas power plant..and lies on a dodge chasis...ohhh and she weighs ALOT i reckon...everythigs real wood...no press board in this house : )
                            >
                            > thanks to all that respounded...this is a really nice place to learn.
                            >
                            > chris
                            >
                            > Scott Williams <swillia5@...> wrote:
                            > The newer, the more computers involved. I'd say perhaps finding an
                            > older school bus, just make sure it's got a turbo. No reason to skip
                            > that on whatever you put in there. I'd guess that you have room to add
                            > anything you want, considering you've got a 555 cubic inch diesel V8 in
                            > there now. But you'd have to replace the Allison as well, right? Gets
                            > complicated in a hurry. Still, an old diesel schoolbus could be a good
                            > donor, if you ask me - maybe mid-to-late 1980s. Pre-computers, anyway.
                            >
                            > But first I'd try to figure out what's wrong with what you have.
                            > Perhaps a good diesel purge (run some diesel purge through the injection
                            > pump, this is something a lot of Mercedes people do, but I don't know
                            > how easy it would be to do it on another engine - you run the injector
                            > overflow lines back into the bottle of diesel purge, so it runs around
                            > and around inside the engine - use a filter on the intake side so you
                            > don't suck any crud back in as the stuff circulates around the system.)
                            > Cleans the crud out of the system, some say it is like getting a new
                            > engine. Have the injectors tested and maybe balanced. Does the "triple
                            > nickel" need to have the valves adjusted? And make sure the linkages
                            > are adjusted correctly, if they go out of adjustment you could be
                            > running on too much or too little fuel.
                            >
                            > Depending on the Allison you have, perhaps you're not geared for the
                            > open road. Many old busses were made for "in town" driving, so they
                            > have the 4 speed Allison and run pretty high RPMs when on the highway.
                            >
                            > What kind of chassis does this RV have? Was it sold originally with the
                            > diesel? Is it a bus conversion? Front or rear engine? How much does
                            > it weigh?
                            >
                            > Scott in Penfield
                            >
                            > Ed wrote:
                            >> I am no diesel machanic nor do I claim to know anything about them,
                            >> but it would seem an easy swap and probably have ample power.
                            >>
                            >> I would suggest looking for a wrecked, newer Dodge Ambulance. The
                            >> bigger, and newer, the ambulance is the better. The dodge ambulance
                            >> ran Cummins so I bet it might be an easy swap and have all the torque
                            >> you need to move your motorhome. there would be more than enough power
                            >> for the hills and yet still get better mileage...
                            >>
                            >> Your radiator will need to be a big one, but I bet you already have a
                            >> big one since you had a diesel already.
                            >>
                            >> The trick is to find the newest one you can, because they rack up the
                            >> miles quick.
                            >>
                            >> like I said no knowledge behind it...Just a suggestion
                            >>
                            >> Ed
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • sheinrichs2000
                            Scott, all of your posts have been right on! Yes, a filter - all diesel folks especially should carry an extra one (or two!). I have a 1976 FMC which is a
                            Message 13 of 22 , Mar 4, 2008
                              Scott, all of your posts have been right on! Yes, a filter - all
                              diesel folks especially should carry an extra one (or two!). I have a
                              1976 FMC which is a rear engined, Chrysler 440-I. I have converted
                              the engine from a Thermoquad carb to Edelbrock MPI fuel injection,
                              transmission from the 3 spd Chrysler to an Allison AT545 4 spd.
                              Starts nice and has added power and a little better mileage.

                              I will at some point be converting it to a Duramax LBZ tubo diesel (I
                              have the engine in the garage). To do that I also need to switch to
                              either a 5 or 6 speed Allison. The 6 speed will give me 1900 rpm at
                              65 mph with the stock rear end. This is a multiyear project acquiring
                              all of the needed parts (transmission, computers, wiring, etc.) and
                              will probably end up costing in the $15-20,000 range. Why do it? This
                              will give me the torgue (600 ftlbs) to pull 6% grades in high gear
                              with my 15,000 lb coach. Is it cost effective? NO. But some things
                              jsut need to be done and done correctly well. I never had a hot car
                              in my youth, so I guess this is my outlet!

                              Stephen H.

                              --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Scott Williams <swillia5@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > So a simple clogged filter. Great news. You might consider
                              finding a
                              > good diesel mechanic down in Mexico and having him rebuild the
                              > injectors. An engine rebuild is probably out of the question, if
                              > looking at rebuilt long block prices is any indication ($15,000!!)
                              > That's just too rare an engine, and not with a great reputation.
                              > However, RVs run fairly low miles, and that engine is probably
                              > under-stressed in an RV vs. what it was probably designed for (dump
                              > truck, offshore boat, etc.) I bet with care it will last a long
                              time.
                              > Diesel care and feeding is different than gas. Keep the oil and
                              fuel
                              > filters clean, and you're most of the way there, though.
                              >
                              > Allison 6 speed, that's a nice one.
                              >
                              > Scott in Penfield NY
                              >
                              >
                              > chris tryba wrote:
                              > > ... so sad a feelin from the beast she use to be...well, a fuel
                              filter, some transmission fluid poured in the fuel filter, and 10
                              minutes later, she was as good as new...purrrrrin like the beast she
                              is!!! ew the crud that popped outta that old filter......total cost
                              $77
                              > > its a 6 speed allison and runs well on the open road...itll
                              cruise at 75 mph @ 3500 rpms all day...
                            • Ron Mitchell
                              Stephen, Nice coach, I saw a picture on another site. What s an Edelbrock MPI system like that cost for a 440? That looks the a nice setup. Ron 76 Coachemn ...
                              Message 14 of 22 , Mar 4, 2008
                                Stephen,
                                Nice coach, I saw a picture on another site. What's an Edelbrock
                                MPI system like that cost for a 440? That looks the a nice setup.

                                Ron
                                76 Coachemn

                                At 10:43 AM 03/04/2008, you wrote:

                                >Scott, all of your posts have been right on! Yes, a filter - all
                                >diesel folks especially should carry an extra one (or two!). I have a
                                >1976 FMC which is a rear engined, Chrysler 440-I. I have converted
                                >the engine from a Thermoquad carb to Edelbrock MPI fuel injection,
                                >transmission from the 3 spd Chrysler to an Allison AT545 4 spd.
                                >Starts nice and has added power and a little better mileage.
                                >
                                >I will at some point be converting it to a Duramax LBZ tubo diesel (I
                                >have the engine in the garage). To do that I also need to switch to
                                >either a 5 or 6 speed Allison. The 6 speed will give me 1900 rpm at
                                >65 mph with the stock rear end. This is a multiyear project acquiring
                                >all of the needed parts (transmission, computers, wiring, etc.) and
                                >will probably end up costing in the $15-20,000 range. Why do it? This
                                >will give me the torgue (600 ftlbs) to pull 6% grades in high gear
                                >with my 15,000 lb coach. Is it cost effective? NO. But some things
                                >jsut need to be done and done correctly well. I never had a hot car
                                >in my youth, so I guess this is my outlet!
                                >
                                >Stephen H.
                                >
                                >--- In
                                ><mailto:classicrv%40yahoogroups.com>classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Scott
                                >Williams <swillia5@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > So a simple clogged filter. Great news. You might consider
                                >finding a
                                > > good diesel mechanic down in Mexico and having him rebuild the
                                > > injectors. An engine rebuild is probably out of the question, if
                                > > looking at rebuilt long block prices is any indication ($15,000!!)
                                > > That's just too rare an engine, and not with a great reputation.
                                > > However, RVs run fairly low miles, and that engine is probably
                                > > under-stressed in an RV vs. what it was probably designed for (dump
                                > > truck, offshore boat, etc.) I bet with care it will last a long
                                >time.
                                > > Diesel care and feeding is different than gas. Keep the oil and
                                >fuel
                                > > filters clean, and you're most of the way there, though.
                                > >
                                > > Allison 6 speed, that's a nice one.
                                > >
                                > > Scott in Penfield NY
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > chris tryba wrote:
                                > > > ... so sad a feelin from the beast she use to be...well, a fuel
                                >filter, some transmission fluid poured in the fuel filter, and 10
                                >minutes later, she was as good as new...purrrrrin like the beast she
                                >is!!! ew the crud that popped outta that old filter......total cost
                                >$77
                                > > > its a 6 speed allison and runs well on the open road...itll
                                >cruise at 75 mph @ 3500 rpms all day...
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • sheinrichs2000
                                Ron, thanks for the compliment. Edelbrock system was close to $3,000, but changed the character of the 440. Once, just for grins, I pulled the Grapevine north
                                Message 15 of 22 , Mar 4, 2008
                                  Ron, thanks for the compliment. Edelbrock system was close to
                                  $3,000, but changed the character of the 440. Once, just for grins, I
                                  pulled the Grapevine north of LA (7 mile 6-7% grade) in high gear.
                                  It lugged the engine down to around 23-2500 rpm which is not good for
                                  it but had to do it just once! Normally, on a grade like that, when
                                  the rpm's drop I shift down to 3rd and then just hold the rpm at 37-
                                  3800 which is about 55mph in my coach. For others here is a link to a
                                  picture of my coach in my driveway. http://www.datastormusers.com/cgi-
                                  bin/album.pl?photo=00002569/P9300007.JPG;photo_height=600 . If not
                                  clickable, cut and paste.

                                  Stephen

                                  --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Ron Mitchell <rmitchel@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Stephen,
                                  > Nice coach, I saw a picture on another site. What's an Edelbrock
                                  > MPI system like that cost for a 440? That looks the a nice setup.
                                  >
                                  > Ron
                                  > 76 Coachemn
                                  >
                                  > At 10:43 AM 03/04/2008, you wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >Scott, all of your posts have been right on! Yes, a filter - all
                                  > >diesel folks especially should carry an extra one (or two!). I
                                  have a
                                  > >1976 FMC which is a rear engined, Chrysler 440-I. I have converted
                                  > >the engine from a Thermoquad carb to Edelbrock MPI fuel injection,
                                  > >transmission from the 3 spd Chrysler to an Allison AT545 4 spd.
                                  > >Starts nice and has added power and a little better mileage.
                                  > >
                                  > >I will at some point be converting it to a Duramax LBZ tubo diesel
                                  (I
                                  > >have the engine in the garage). To do that I also need to switch to
                                  > >either a 5 or 6 speed Allison. The 6 speed will give me 1900 rpm at
                                  > >65 mph with the stock rear end. This is a multiyear project
                                  acquiring
                                  > >all of the needed parts (transmission, computers, wiring, etc.) and
                                  > >will probably end up costing in the $15-20,000 range. Why do it?
                                  This
                                  > >will give me the torgue (600 ftlbs) to pull 6% grades in high gear
                                  > >with my 15,000 lb coach. Is it cost effective? NO. But some things
                                  > >jsut need to be done and done correctly well. I never had a hot car
                                  > >in my youth, so I guess this is my outlet!
                                  > >
                                  > >Stephen H.
                                  > >
                                • Ron Mitchell
                                  Being able to pull a grade like that at 55 is a good thing, whatever gear you re in. Ron 76 Coachmen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Mar 5, 2008
                                    Being able to pull a grade like that at 55 is a good thing, whatever
                                    gear you're in.

                                    Ron
                                    76 Coachmen

                                    At 01:32 AM 03/05/2008, you wrote:

                                    >Ron, thanks for the compliment. Edelbrock system was close to
                                    >$3,000, but changed the character of the 440. Once, just for grins, I
                                    >pulled the Grapevine north of LA (7 mile 6-7% grade) in high gear.
                                    >It lugged the engine down to around 23-2500 rpm which is not good for
                                    >it but had to do it just once! Normally, on a grade like that, when
                                    >the rpm's drop I shift down to 3rd and then just hold the rpm at 37-
                                    >3800 which is about 55mph in my coach. For others here is a link to a
                                    >picture of my coach in my driveway.
                                    ><http://www.datastormusers.com/cgi->http://www.datastormusers.com/cgi-
                                    >bin/album.pl?photo=00002569/P9300007.JPG;photo_height=600 . If not
                                    >clickable, cut and paste.
                                    >
                                    >Stephen
                                    >
                                    >--- In
                                    ><mailto:classicrv%40yahoogroups.com>classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Ron
                                    >Mitchell <rmitchel@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Stephen,
                                    > > Nice coach, I saw a picture on another site. What's an Edelbrock
                                    > > MPI system like that cost for a 440? That looks the a nice setup.
                                    > >
                                    > > Ron
                                    > > 76 Coachemn
                                    > >
                                    > > At 10:43 AM 03/04/2008, you wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > >Scott, all of your posts have been right on! Yes, a filter - all
                                    > > >diesel folks especially should carry an extra one (or two!). I
                                    >have a
                                    > > >1976 FMC which is a rear engined, Chrysler 440-I. I have converted
                                    > > >the engine from a Thermoquad carb to Edelbrock MPI fuel injection,
                                    > > >transmission from the 3 spd Chrysler to an Allison AT545 4 spd.
                                    > > >Starts nice and has added power and a little better mileage.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >I will at some point be converting it to a Duramax LBZ tubo diesel
                                    >(I
                                    > > >have the engine in the garage). To do that I also need to switch to
                                    > > >either a 5 or 6 speed Allison. The 6 speed will give me 1900 rpm at
                                    > > >65 mph with the stock rear end. This is a multiyear project
                                    >acquiring
                                    > > >all of the needed parts (transmission, computers, wiring, etc.) and
                                    > > >will probably end up costing in the $15-20,000 range. Why do it?
                                    >This
                                    > > >will give me the torgue (600 ftlbs) to pull 6% grades in high gear
                                    > > >with my 15,000 lb coach. Is it cost effective? NO. But some things
                                    > > >jsut need to be done and done correctly well. I never had a hot car
                                    > > >in my youth, so I guess this is my outlet!
                                    > > >
                                    > > >Stephen H.
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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