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Re: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...

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  • lou
    Hi Duane - I used only a battery charger for many years back when converters weren t even considered. They do just fine. If the items you are running off the
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 8, 2008
      Hi Duane -

      I used only a battery charger for many years back when converters weren't even considered. They do just fine. If the items you are running off the 12 v is more than the charger can handle, it draws the rest from the battery and when you shut them off it resumes charging the battery. The only thing you have to look out for is the newest "smart" chargers as they require a certain voltage in the battery before they will work and I think they are also tied into some time limit for the charging cycle, not sure of that though. Any of the older types are fine for our use but we might look for one that will not overcharge the battery as some of the cheapest ones might.

      regards,
      lou
      ==============================================

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Duane
      To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:53 PM
      Subject: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...


      You are forgetting that the convertor supplies voltage to your 12V
      lights, possibly the refer circuit(depending on it's age), the water
      heater - ditto refer, and anyother 12v device that you may have that
      does not run off the battery.

      --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Lynnie Whitefield" <birdman1@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > I don't think the beer method would work either. When the converter
      in our 89 model rig bites the dust(and maybe before) I am thinking
      seriously about replacing the charging part with an electronic self
      regulsting battery charger, From my observations they are cheaper.
      Only the charger part of the converter actually wears out as the
      other part is just a breaker box for the circuits.
      >
      > Lynnie
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Ron Mitchell
      > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:58 AM
      > Subject: Re: [classicrv] Batteries boiled dry from charging...
      >
      >
      > Don't waste the beer on the battery. The only thing to go in
      those
      > holes is distilled water. I've tried the distilled water route
      > myself, only to end up replacing the battery a month later,
      anyway.
      > You can give it a try to see if it will hold charge, it's cheap
      > enough to be worth a try, but once they boil down below the
      plates,
      > they're usually gone. I've heard of some battery "rejuvenator"
      stuff,
      > but I've never tried it.
      > I picked up a cheap tester (around $15 on sale) from Harbor
      > Freight. That was a good investment. I use it on the cars, RV,
      > tractor, etc. The small one (50A) seems to be enough to tell the
      tale.
      > I'm going to wire in a new "battery maintainer" (around $20) that
      > is a 1.5A trickle charge that tapers off at full charge to
      eliminate
      > the "boil". I figure I can just put a switch on the regular
      charger,
      > to use when the batteries are low and really need the higher
      > amperage. I don't feel like replacing the whole converter just to
      get
      > a better battery charger.
      >
      > Ron
      > 76 Coachmen
      >
      > At 12:14 AM 02/06/2008, you wrote:
      >
      > >Batteries boiled dry from charging...
      > >
      > >IS THERE ANY WAY TO REJUVENATE THEM. I HAVE ADDED DISTILLED
      WATER AND
      > >AM TRYING TO CHARGE THEM NOW. i HAVE BEEN TOLD IT WILL AND WON'T
      WORK.
      > >ALSO BEEN TOLD THAT PUTTING BEER IN THEM WILL FIX IT??
      > >
      > >HAVE YOU HAD ANY SUCCESS OR IS IT TIME TO BUY NEW BATTERIES......
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------
      ----------
      >
      >
      > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
      > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1262 - Release Date:
      2/6/2008 9:13 AM
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Duane
      OK I see what you are getting at. A convertor is just a charger anyway. ... weren t even considered. They do just fine. If the items you are running off the
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 9, 2008
        OK I see what you are getting at. A convertor is just a charger
        anyway.



        --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "lou" <loulh@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Duane -
        >
        > I used only a battery charger for many years back when converters
        weren't even considered. They do just fine. If the items you are
        running off the 12 v is more than the charger can handle, it draws
        the rest from the battery and when you shut them off it resumes
        charging the battery. The only thing you have to look out for is the
        newest "smart" chargers as they require a certain voltage in the
        battery before they will work and I think they are also tied into
        some time limit for the charging cycle, not sure of that though. Any
        of the older types are fine for our use but we might look for one
        that will not overcharge the battery as some of the cheapest ones
        might.
        >
        > regards,
        > lou
        > ==============================================
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Duane
        > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:53 PM
        > Subject: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...
        >
        >
        > You are forgetting that the convertor supplies voltage to your
        12V
        > lights, possibly the refer circuit(depending on it's age), the
        water
        > heater - ditto refer, and anyother 12v device that you may have
        that
        > does not run off the battery.
        >
        > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Lynnie Whitefield" <birdman1@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > I don't think the beer method would work either. When the
        converter
        > in our 89 model rig bites the dust(and maybe before) I am
        thinking
        > seriously about replacing the charging part with an electronic
        self
        > regulsting battery charger, From my observations they are
        cheaper.
        > Only the charger part of the converter actually wears out as the
        > other part is just a breaker box for the circuits.
        > >
        > > Lynnie
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Ron Mitchell
        > > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:58 AM
        > > Subject: Re: [classicrv] Batteries boiled dry from charging...
        > >
        > >
        > > Don't waste the beer on the battery. The only thing to go in
        > those
        > > holes is distilled water. I've tried the distilled water route
        > > myself, only to end up replacing the battery a month later,
        > anyway.
        > > You can give it a try to see if it will hold charge, it's cheap
        > > enough to be worth a try, but once they boil down below the
        > plates,
        > > they're usually gone. I've heard of some battery "rejuvenator"
        > stuff,
        > > but I've never tried it.
        > > I picked up a cheap tester (around $15 on sale) from Harbor
        > > Freight. That was a good investment. I use it on the cars, RV,
        > > tractor, etc. The small one (50A) seems to be enough to tell
        the
        > tale.
        > > I'm going to wire in a new "battery maintainer" (around $20)
        that
        > > is a 1.5A trickle charge that tapers off at full charge to
        > eliminate
        > > the "boil". I figure I can just put a switch on the regular
        > charger,
        > > to use when the batteries are low and really need the higher
        > > amperage. I don't feel like replacing the whole converter just
        to
        > get
        > > a better battery charger.
        > >
        > > Ron
        > > 76 Coachmen
        > >
        > > At 12:14 AM 02/06/2008, you wrote:
        > >
        > > >Batteries boiled dry from charging...
        > > >
        > > >IS THERE ANY WAY TO REJUVENATE THEM. I HAVE ADDED DISTILLED
        > WATER AND
        > > >AM TRYING TO CHARGE THEM NOW. i HAVE BEEN TOLD IT WILL AND
        WON'T
        > WORK.
        > > >ALSO BEEN TOLD THAT PUTTING BEER IN THEM WILL FIX IT??
        > > >
        > > >HAVE YOU HAD ANY SUCCESS OR IS IT TIME TO BUY NEW
        BATTERIES......
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ----------------------------------------------------------
        > ----------
        > >
        > >
        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1262 - Release
        Date:
        > 2/6/2008 9:13 AM
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Lynnie Whitefield
        I have a 10 amp charger that I use for low batteries at the house here and it has a manual and automatic switch on it. As I understand it, as has been
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 9, 2008
          I have a 10 amp charger that I use for low batteries at the house here and it has a manual and automatic switch on it. As I understand it, as has been previously mentioned, the 12 volt equipment runs off of the battery and the convertor keeps the battery up. If I am wrong somebody chime in. I notice the convertor in our rig has a cooling fan and it still gets pretty warm. Since it may have to be charging constantly you would want a large capacity battery charger to replace the convertor and want one that automatically tapers off when the battery is fully charged.

          Just trying to educate myself,
          Lynnie.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Duane
          To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 5:08 AM
          Subject: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...


          OK I see what you are getting at. A convertor is just a charger
          anyway.

          --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "lou" <loulh@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Duane -
          >
          > I used only a battery charger for many years back when converters
          weren't even considered. They do just fine. If the items you are
          running off the 12 v is more than the charger can handle, it draws
          the rest from the battery and when you shut them off it resumes
          charging the battery. The only thing you have to look out for is the
          newest "smart" chargers as they require a certain voltage in the
          battery before they will work and I think they are also tied into
          some time limit for the charging cycle, not sure of that though. Any
          of the older types are fine for our use but we might look for one
          that will not overcharge the battery as some of the cheapest ones
          might.
          >
          > regards,
          > lou
          > ==============================================
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Duane
          > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:53 PM
          > Subject: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...
          >
          >
          > You are forgetting that the convertor supplies voltage to your
          12V
          > lights, possibly the refer circuit(depending on it's age), the
          water
          > heater - ditto refer, and anyother 12v device that you may have
          that
          > does not run off the battery.
          >
          > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Lynnie Whitefield" <birdman1@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > I don't think the beer method would work either. When the
          converter
          > in our 89 model rig bites the dust(and maybe before) I am
          thinking
          > seriously about replacing the charging part with an electronic
          self
          > regulsting battery charger, From my observations they are
          cheaper.
          > Only the charger part of the converter actually wears out as the
          > other part is just a breaker box for the circuits.
          > >
          > > Lynnie
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: Ron Mitchell
          > > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:58 AM
          > > Subject: Re: [classicrv] Batteries boiled dry from charging...
          > >
          > >
          > > Don't waste the beer on the battery. The only thing to go in
          > those
          > > holes is distilled water. I've tried the distilled water route
          > > myself, only to end up replacing the battery a month later,
          > anyway.
          > > You can give it a try to see if it will hold charge, it's cheap
          > > enough to be worth a try, but once they boil down below the
          > plates,
          > > they're usually gone. I've heard of some battery "rejuvenator"
          > stuff,
          > > but I've never tried it.
          > > I picked up a cheap tester (around $15 on sale) from Harbor
          > > Freight. That was a good investment. I use it on the cars, RV,
          > > tractor, etc. The small one (50A) seems to be enough to tell
          the
          > tale.
          > > I'm going to wire in a new "battery maintainer" (around $20)
          that
          > > is a 1.5A trickle charge that tapers off at full charge to
          > eliminate
          > > the "boil". I figure I can just put a switch on the regular
          > charger,
          > > to use when the batteries are low and really need the higher
          > > amperage. I don't feel like replacing the whole converter just
          to
          > get
          > > a better battery charger.
          > >
          > > Ron
          > > 76 Coachmen
          > >
          > > At 12:14 AM 02/06/2008, you wrote:
          > >
          > > >Batteries boiled dry from charging...
          > > >
          > > >IS THERE ANY WAY TO REJUVENATE THEM. I HAVE ADDED DISTILLED
          > WATER AND
          > > >AM TRYING TO CHARGE THEM NOW. i HAVE BEEN TOLD IT WILL AND
          WON'T
          > WORK.
          > > >ALSO BEEN TOLD THAT PUTTING BEER IN THEM WILL FIX IT??
          > > >
          > > >HAVE YOU HAD ANY SUCCESS OR IS IT TIME TO BUY NEW
          BATTERIES......
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ----------------------------------------------------------
          > ----------
          > >
          > >
          > > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1262 - Release
          Date:
          > 2/6/2008 9:13 AM
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >






          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • lou
          Lynnie, You are basically right but with a couple of polishing touches. First, a 10 amp charger is probably adequate considering that it would be running 24
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 9, 2008
            Lynnie,

            You are basically right but with a couple of polishing touches. First, a 10 amp charger is probably adequate considering that it would be running 24 hrs per day and during peak power usage the battery would pick up the difference. The charger will not be charging constantly, only when necessary. The rest of the time it will be trickle charging just to maintain the battery, i.e., a charger with a tapering charge. Most chargers will not automatically turn off when the battery is fully charged. Instead they go into a "trickle charge" mode which is fine for the batteries. This is the area in which you need to carefully check the quality of the charger so that the rate of the "trickle charge" does not boil the water from the battery. Perhaps a note to the charger manufacturer would help. Next, a converter is not an especially good battery charger as their rate of charge is usually quite low, something in the range of 3/4 - 3 amps. They are more orientated towards the running of 12 volt items such as lights etc. To sum up, a charger is good providing only that care is taken to get a good quality charger (and not one of the new "smart charger" units).

            One other area of difference between converters and chargers is the filtering of the 12 volts. The converter does this far better than a charger that is not connected to a battery. However, a battery is perhaps one of the best filters available and will easily match or outperform any converter so a charger/battery combination will perform equal to or better than a converter.

            Hope this helps.

            lou howard
            =============================================















            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Lynnie Whitefield
            To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 1:37 PM
            Subject: Re: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...



            I have a 10 amp charger that I use for low batteries at the house here and it has a manual and automatic switch on it. As I understand it, as has been previously mentioned, the 12 volt equipment runs off of the battery and the convertor keeps the battery up. If I am wrong somebody chime in. I notice the convertor in our rig has a cooling fan and it still gets pretty warm. Since it may have to be charging constantly you would want a large capacity battery charger to replace the convertor and want one that automatically tapers off when the battery is fully charged.

            Just trying to educate myself,
            Lynnie.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Duane
            To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 5:08 AM
            Subject: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...

            OK I see what you are getting at. A convertor is just a charger
            anyway.

            --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "lou" <loulh@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Duane -
            >
            > I used only a battery charger for many years back when converters
            weren't even considered. They do just fine. If the items you are
            running off the 12 v is more than the charger can handle, it draws
            the rest from the battery and when you shut them off it resumes
            charging the battery. The only thing you have to look out for is the
            newest "smart" chargers as they require a certain voltage in the
            battery before they will work and I think they are also tied into
            some time limit for the charging cycle, not sure of that though. Any
            of the older types are fine for our use but we might look for one
            that will not overcharge the battery as some of the cheapest ones
            might.
            >
            > regards,
            > lou
            > ==============================================
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Duane
            > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:53 PM
            > Subject: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...
            >
            >
            > You are forgetting that the convertor supplies voltage to your
            12V
            > lights, possibly the refer circuit(depending on it's age), the
            water
            > heater - ditto refer, and anyother 12v device that you may have
            that
            > does not run off the battery.
            >
            > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Lynnie Whitefield" <birdman1@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > I don't think the beer method would work either. When the
            converter
            > in our 89 model rig bites the dust(and maybe before) I am
            thinking
            > seriously about replacing the charging part with an electronic
            self
            > regulsting battery charger, From my observations they are
            cheaper.
            > Only the charger part of the converter actually wears out as the
            > other part is just a breaker box for the circuits.
            > >
            > > Lynnie
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: Ron Mitchell
            > > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:58 AM
            > > Subject: Re: [classicrv] Batteries boiled dry from charging...
            > >
            > >
            > > Don't waste the beer on the battery. The only thing to go in
            > those
            > > holes is distilled water. I've tried the distilled water route
            > > myself, only to end up replacing the battery a month later,
            > anyway.
            > > You can give it a try to see if it will hold charge, it's cheap
            > > enough to be worth a try, but once they boil down below the
            > plates,
            > > they're usually gone. I've heard of some battery "rejuvenator"
            > stuff,
            > > but I've never tried it.
            > > I picked up a cheap tester (around $15 on sale) from Harbor
            > > Freight. That was a good investment. I use it on the cars, RV,
            > > tractor, etc. The small one (50A) seems to be enough to tell
            the
            > tale.
            > > I'm going to wire in a new "battery maintainer" (around $20)
            that
            > > is a 1.5A trickle charge that tapers off at full charge to
            > eliminate
            > > the "boil". I figure I can just put a switch on the regular
            > charger,
            > > to use when the batteries are low and really need the higher
            > > amperage. I don't feel like replacing the whole converter just
            to
            > get
            > > a better battery charger.
            > >
            > > Ron
            > > 76 Coachmen
            > >
            > > At 12:14 AM 02/06/2008, you wrote:
            > >
            > > >Batteries boiled dry from charging...
            > > >
            > > >IS THERE ANY WAY TO REJUVENATE THEM. I HAVE ADDED DISTILLED
            > WATER AND
            > > >AM TRYING TO CHARGE THEM NOW. i HAVE BEEN TOLD IT WILL AND
            WON'T
            > WORK.
            > > >ALSO BEEN TOLD THAT PUTTING BEER IN THEM WILL FIX IT??
            > > >
            > > >HAVE YOU HAD ANY SUCCESS OR IS IT TIME TO BUY NEW
            BATTERIES......
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ----------------------------------------------------------
            > ----------
            > >
            > >
            > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1262 - Release
            Date:
            > 2/6/2008 9:13 AM
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >

            ----------------------------------------------------------

            No virus found in this incoming message.
            Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lynnie Whitefield
            Thanks Lou, I appreciate your feedback which these groups are all about.. One question though, you mrentioned a smart charger . Explain why they aren t good
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 9, 2008
              Thanks Lou,

              I appreciate your feedback which these groups are all about.. One question though, you mrentioned "a smart charger". Explain why they aren't good to use in our applivcation. Aren't they suppose to monitor the charge and adjust accordingly?

              Thanks again,

              Lynnie
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: lou
              To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 3:58 PM
              Subject: Re: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...


              Lynnie,

              You are basically right but with a couple of polishing touches. First, a 10 amp charger is probably adequate considering that it would be running 24 hrs per day and during peak power usage the battery would pick up the difference. The charger will not be charging constantly, only when necessary. The rest of the time it will be trickle charging just to maintain the battery, i.e., a charger with a tapering charge. Most chargers will not automatically turn off when the battery is fully charged. Instead they go into a "trickle charge" mode which is fine for the batteries. This is the area in which you need to carefully check the quality of the charger so that the rate of the "trickle charge" does not boil the water from the battery. Perhaps a note to the charger manufacturer would help. Next, a converter is not an especially good battery charger as their rate of charge is usually quite low, something in the range of 3/4 - 3 amps. They are more orientated towards the running of 12 vot items such as lights etc. To sum up, a charger is good providing only that care is taken to get a good quality charger (and not one of the new "smart charger" units).

              One other area of difference between converters and chargers is the filtering of the 12 volts. The converter does this far better than a charger that is not connected to a battery. However, a battery is perhaps one of the best filters available and will easily match or outperform any converter so a charger/battery combination will perform equal to or better than a converter.

              Hope this helps.

              lou howard
              =============================================

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Lynnie Whitefield
              To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 1:37 PM
              Subject: Re: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...

              I have a 10 amp charger that I use for low batteries at the house here and it has a manual and automatic switch on it. As I understand it, as has been previously mentioned, the 12 volt equipment runs off of the battery and the convertor keeps the battery up. If I am wrong somebody chime in. I notice the convertor in our rig has a cooling fan and it still gets pretty warm. Since it may have to be charging constantly you would want a large capacity battery charger to replace the convertor and want one that automatically tapers off when the battery is fully charged.

              Just trying to educate myself,
              Lynnie.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Duane
              To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 5:08 AM
              Subject: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...

              OK I see what you are getting at. A convertor is just a charger
              anyway.

              --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "lou" <loulh@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Duane -
              >
              > I used only a battery charger for many years back when converters
              weren't even considered. They do just fine. If the items you are
              running off the 12 v is more than the charger can handle, it draws
              the rest from the battery and when you shut them off it resumes
              charging the battery. The only thing you have to look out for is the
              newest "smart" chargers as they require a certain voltage in the
              battery before they will work and I think they are also tied into
              some time limit for the charging cycle, not sure of that though. Any
              of the older types are fine for our use but we might look for one
              that will not overcharge the battery as some of the cheapest ones
              might.
              >
              > regards,
              > lou
              > ==============================================
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Duane
              > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:53 PM
              > Subject: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...
              >
              >
              > You are forgetting that the convertor supplies voltage to your
              12V
              > lights, possibly the refer circuit(depending on it's age), the
              water
              > heater - ditto refer, and anyother 12v device that you may have
              that
              > does not run off the battery.
              >
              > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Lynnie Whitefield" <birdman1@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > I don't think the beer method would work either. When the
              converter
              > in our 89 model rig bites the dust(and maybe before) I am
              thinking
              > seriously about replacing the charging part with an electronic
              self
              > regulsting battery charger, From my observations they are
              cheaper.
              > Only the charger part of the converter actually wears out as the
              > other part is just a breaker box for the circuits.
              > >
              > > Lynnie
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: Ron Mitchell
              > > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:58 AM
              > > Subject: Re: [classicrv] Batteries boiled dry from charging...
              > >
              > >
              > > Don't waste the beer on the battery. The only thing to go in
              > those
              > > holes is distilled water. I've tried the distilled water route
              > > myself, only to end up replacing the battery a month later,
              > anyway.
              > > You can give it a try to see if it will hold charge, it's cheap
              > > enough to be worth a try, but once they boil down below the
              > plates,
              > > they're usually gone. I've heard of some battery "rejuvenator"
              > stuff,
              > > but I've never tried it.
              > > I picked up a cheap tester (around $15 on sale) from Harbor
              > > Freight. That was a good investment. I use it on the cars, RV,
              > > tractor, etc. The small one (50A) seems to be enough to tell
              the
              > tale.
              > > I'm going to wire in a new "battery maintainer" (around $20)
              that
              > > is a 1.5A trickle charge that tapers off at full charge to
              > eliminate
              > > the "boil". I figure I can just put a switch on the regular
              > charger,
              > > to use when the batteries are low and really need the higher
              > > amperage. I don't feel like replacing the whole converter just
              to
              > get
              > > a better battery charger.
              > >
              > > Ron
              > > 76 Coachmen
              > >
              > > At 12:14 AM 02/06/2008, you wrote:
              > >
              > > >Batteries boiled dry from charging...
              > > >
              > > >IS THERE ANY WAY TO REJUVENATE THEM. I HAVE ADDED DISTILLED
              > WATER AND
              > > >AM TRYING TO CHARGE THEM NOW. i HAVE BEEN TOLD IT WILL AND
              WON'T
              > WORK.
              > > >ALSO BEEN TOLD THAT PUTTING BEER IN THEM WILL FIX IT??
              > > >
              > > >HAVE YOU HAD ANY SUCCESS OR IS IT TIME TO BUY NEW
              BATTERIES......
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ----------------------------------------------------------
              > ----------
              > >
              > >
              > > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1262 - Release
              Date:
              > 2/6/2008 9:13 AM
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >

              ----------------------------------------------------------

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              Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • lou
              You re welcome Lynnie, Smart Chargers are truly superior for charging batteries but not for our application. Fist, they (or at least the ones I know about)
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 9, 2008
                You're welcome Lynnie,

                Smart Chargers are truly superior for charging batteries but not for our application. Fist, they (or at least the ones I know about) have a fixed cycle so that should you turn on some lights it think it had a short and turn off. Also, there is a time limit for their cycle. The third and last reason is that they cannot charge a battery that has gone dead, there must be a charge of some sort already in the battery. If there is no charge in the battery, it doesn't know it's connected to the battery.

                None of this would come into play when charging up your car battery (or shouldn't) but it is not good for rv use.

                lou
                =============================================

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Lynnie Whitefield
                To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 5:12 PM
                Subject: Re: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...


                Thanks Lou,

                I appreciate your feedback which these groups are all about.. One question though, you mrentioned "a smart charger". Explain why they aren't good to use in our applivcation. Aren't they suppose to monitor the charge and adjust accordingly?

                Thanks again,

                Lynnie
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: lou
                To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 3:58 PM
                Subject: Re: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...

                Lynnie,

                You are basically right but with a couple of polishing touches. First, a 10 amp charger is probably adequate considering that it would be running 24 hrs per day and during peak power usage the battery would pick up the difference. The charger will not be charging constantly, only when necessary. The rest of the time it will be trickle charging just to maintain the battery, i.e., a charger with a tapering charge. Most chargers will not automatically turn off when the battery is fully charged. Instead they go into a "trickle charge" mode which is fine for the batteries. This is the area in which you need to carefully check the quality of the charger so that the rate of the "trickle charge" does not boil the water from the battery. Perhaps a note to the charger manufacturer would help. Next, a converter is not an especially good battery charger as their rate of charge is usually quite low, something in the range of 3/4 - 3 amps. They are more orientated towards the running of 12 vot items such as lights etc. To sum up, a charger is good providing only that care is taken to get a good quality charger (and not one of the new "smart charger" units).

                One other area of difference between converters and chargers is the filtering of the 12 volts. The converter does this far better than a charger that is not connected to a battery. However, a battery is perhaps one of the best filters available and will easily match or outperform any converter so a charger/battery combination will perform equal to or better than a converter.

                Hope this helps.

                lou howard
                =============================================

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Lynnie Whitefield
                To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 1:37 PM
                Subject: Re: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...

                I have a 10 amp charger that I use for low batteries at the house here and it has a manual and automatic switch on it. As I understand it, as has been previously mentioned, the 12 volt equipment runs off of the battery and the convertor keeps the battery up. If I am wrong somebody chime in. I notice the convertor in our rig has a cooling fan and it still gets pretty warm. Since it may have to be charging constantly you would want a large capacity battery charger to replace the convertor and want one that automatically tapers off when the battery is fully charged.

                Just trying to educate myself,
                Lynnie.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Duane
                To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 5:08 AM
                Subject: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...

                OK I see what you are getting at. A convertor is just a charger
                anyway.

                --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "lou" <loulh@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Duane -
                >
                > I used only a battery charger for many years back when converters
                weren't even considered. They do just fine. If the items you are
                running off the 12 v is more than the charger can handle, it draws
                the rest from the battery and when you shut them off it resumes
                charging the battery. The only thing you have to look out for is the
                newest "smart" chargers as they require a certain voltage in the
                battery before they will work and I think they are also tied into
                some time limit for the charging cycle, not sure of that though. Any
                of the older types are fine for our use but we might look for one
                that will not overcharge the battery as some of the cheapest ones
                might.
                >
                > regards,
                > lou
                > ==============================================
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Duane
                > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:53 PM
                > Subject: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...
                >
                >
                > You are forgetting that the convertor supplies voltage to your
                12V
                > lights, possibly the refer circuit(depending on it's age), the
                water
                > heater - ditto refer, and anyother 12v device that you may have
                that
                > does not run off the battery.
                >
                > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Lynnie Whitefield" <birdman1@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > I don't think the beer method would work either. When the
                converter
                > in our 89 model rig bites the dust(and maybe before) I am
                thinking
                > seriously about replacing the charging part with an electronic
                self
                > regulsting battery charger, From my observations they are
                cheaper.
                > Only the charger part of the converter actually wears out as the
                > other part is just a breaker box for the circuits.
                > >
                > > Lynnie
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: Ron Mitchell
                > > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:58 AM
                > > Subject: Re: [classicrv] Batteries boiled dry from charging...
                > >
                > >
                > > Don't waste the beer on the battery. The only thing to go in
                > those
                > > holes is distilled water. I've tried the distilled water route
                > > myself, only to end up replacing the battery a month later,
                > anyway.
                > > You can give it a try to see if it will hold charge, it's cheap
                > > enough to be worth a try, but once they boil down below the
                > plates,
                > > they're usually gone. I've heard of some battery "rejuvenator"
                > stuff,
                > > but I've never tried it.
                > > I picked up a cheap tester (around $15 on sale) from Harbor
                > > Freight. That was a good investment. I use it on the cars, RV,
                > > tractor, etc. The small one (50A) seems to be enough to tell
                the
                > tale.
                > > I'm going to wire in a new "battery maintainer" (around $20)
                that
                > > is a 1.5A trickle charge that tapers off at full charge to
                > eliminate
                > > the "boil". I figure I can just put a switch on the regular
                > charger,
                > > to use when the batteries are low and really need the higher
                > > amperage. I don't feel like replacing the whole converter just
                to
                > get
                > > a better battery charger.
                > >
                > > Ron
                > > 76 Coachmen
                > >
                > > At 12:14 AM 02/06/2008, you wrote:
                > >
                > > >Batteries boiled dry from charging...
                > > >
                > > >IS THERE ANY WAY TO REJUVENATE THEM. I HAVE ADDED DISTILLED
                > WATER AND
                > > >AM TRYING TO CHARGE THEM NOW. i HAVE BEEN TOLD IT WILL AND
                WON'T
                > WORK.
                > > >ALSO BEEN TOLD THAT PUTTING BEER IN THEM WILL FIX IT??
                > > >
                > > >HAVE YOU HAD ANY SUCCESS OR IS IT TIME TO BUY NEW
                BATTERIES......
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                > ----------
                > >
                > >
                > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1262 - Release
                Date:
                > 2/6/2008 9:13 AM
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

                ----------------------------------------------------------

                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                ----------------------------------------------------------

                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Penny
                ... To sum up, a charger is good providing only that care is taken to get a good quality charger (and not one of the new smart charger units). ... I would
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 10, 2008
                  --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "lou" <loulh@...> wrote:
                  To sum up, a charger is good providing only that care is taken to get
                  a good quality charger (and not one of the new "smart charger"
                  units).>>>
                  > =============================================

                  I would have thought that a 'smart charger' would be good, as it backs
                  off to a small trickle ? Penny, TX
                  PS. Why doesn't anyone trim their posts. Some have to read this
                  through their cell phones !!
                • Penny
                  ... for our application. Fist, they (or at least the ones I know about) have a fixed cycle so that should you turn on some lights it think it had a short and
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 10, 2008
                    --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "lou" <loulh@...> wrote:
                    > Smart Chargers are truly superior for charging batteries but not
                    for our application. Fist, they (or at least the ones I know about)
                    have a fixed cycle so that should you turn on some lights it think it
                    had a short and turn off. Also, there is a time limit for their
                    cycle. The third and last reason is that they cannot charge a
                    battery that has gone dead, there must be a charge of some sort
                    already in the battery. If there is no charge in the battery, it
                    doesn't know it's connected to the battery.
                    > None of this would come into play when charging up your car battery
                    (or shouldn't) but it is not good for rv use. lou >>>
                    > =============================================

                    Now that I have waded through all the old posts, in hip boots, I see
                    that you already answered my question, Lou. Thank you.
                    I guess the best thing would be a 'smart converter' ?
                    Happy Trails, Penny, TX



                    >
                  • sheinrichs2000
                    I need to clear up some concepts here. A converter is, in essence a different name for an inteligent charger but one that is designed for RV use. They are
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 10, 2008
                      I need to clear up some concepts here. A converter is, in essence a
                      different name for an inteligent charger but one that is designed for
                      RV use. They are designed to both charge battery and provide power
                      at the same time as needed. The previous poster stated that
                      converters are "3/4 - 3 amps". That is simply not true. Mine is 75
                      amps and here is the description of the 45 amp unit.

                      "The WF-9800 Series converter/chargers are versatile, advanced power
                      source solutions. WF-9835 model provides 35 Amps of clean, reliable
                      DC power which is ideal for powering electronics and appliances. The
                      9800 Series provides clean power even without filtering from a
                      battery. Quiet operation is assured as the cooling fan runs only when
                      needed."

                      "Another advantage is FCC Class B compliance for the WF-9835 model,
                      which means the converter does not cause interference with
                      televisions, radios, and other signals. Automatic three-stage battery
                      charging maintains your battery's life with three nominal voltage
                      output modes: 13.2 Vdc "float" mode, 13.6 Vdc "absorption"
                      mode, and a 14.4 Vdc "bulk" charge mode. Electronic current limiting
                      automatically shuts down the power during overload or short circuit
                      conditions."

                      "Specifications: UL and cUL listed. FCC Class B
                      Warranty period: 2 year warranty
                      Output Power: 35 Amps DC Output
                      Input: 105-130 VAC, 60 Hz, 8.0 Amps (600 Watt)
                      Output:
                      - Nominal (Absorption Mode) 13.6 VDC (includes charging and
                      load);
                      - Boost (Bulk Mode) 14.4 VDC;
                      - Trickle (Float Mode) 13.2 VDC (after 48hrs)
                      Dimensions: 5.69" wide; 3.94" high; 7.5" deep
                      Weight: 4 lbs."
                      Source: www.wfcoelectronics.com

                      Note in the above specifications that it uses three different voltage
                      levels to properly charge your battery and provide the power needed
                      to operate any lights, heaters, etc. up to it's rated capacity. It
                      uses the output mode that is needed by sensing the voltage level at
                      it's output side. The absorbtion mode is limited to 48 hours on a
                      contiuous basis to prevent boiling a weak battery dry.
                      Modern converters automatically solve all the problems of maintaining
                      batteries in an RV where different levels of demand are experienced.
                      When I tossed out my old orignal converter/charger and replaced it
                      with the one I have now, all of my battery challeges went away. I
                      check the water every couple of months and haven't had to add any for
                      a year or more.

                      My advise to everyone is to just get a modern converter with the
                      three stage intellignet sysyem as described above and the need for
                      you to constantly monitor and fuss with what is happening with your
                      batteries will be over. Why use an axe when a chainsaw was designed
                      to do a better job.

                      I have the above brand, but there are many others that operate the
                      same way.

                      Stephen H.
                      1976 FMC



                      --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "lou" <loulh@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Lynnie,
                      >
                      > You are basically right but with a couple of polishing touches.
                      First, a 10 amp charger is probably adequate considering that it
                      would be running 24 hrs per day and during peak power usage the
                      battery would pick up the difference. The charger will not be
                      charging constantly, only when necessary. The rest of the time it
                      will be trickle charging just to maintain the battery, i.e., a
                      charger with a tapering charge. Most chargers will not automatically
                      turn off when the battery is fully charged. Instead they go into
                      a "trickle charge" mode which is fine for the batteries. This is the
                      area in which you need to carefully check the quality of the charger
                      so that the rate of the "trickle charge" does not boil the water from
                      the battery. Perhaps a note to the charger manufacturer would help.
                      Next, a converter is not an especially good battery charger as their
                      rate of charge is usually quite low, something in the range of 3/4 -
                      3 amps. They are more orientated towards the running of 12 volt
                      items such as lights etc. To sum up, a charger is good providing
                      only that care is taken to get a good quality charger (and not one of
                      the new "smart charger" units).
                      >
                      > One other area of difference between converters and chargers is the
                      filtering of the 12 volts. The converter does this far better than a
                      charger that is not connected to a battery. However, a battery is
                      perhaps one of the best filters available and will easily match or
                      outperform any converter so a charger/battery combination will
                      perform equal to or better than a converter.
                      >
                      > Hope this helps.
                      >
                      > lou howard
                      > =============================================
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Lynnie Whitefield
                      > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 1:37 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I have a 10 amp charger that I use for low batteries at the house
                      here and it has a manual and automatic switch on it. As I understand
                      it, as has been previously mentioned, the 12 volt equipment runs off
                      of the battery and the convertor keeps the battery up. If I am wrong
                      somebody chime in. I notice the convertor in our rig has a cooling
                      fan and it still gets pretty warm. Since it may have to be charging
                      constantly you would want a large capacity battery charger to replace
                      the convertor and want one that automatically tapers off when the
                      battery is fully charged.
                      >
                      > Just trying to educate myself,
                      > Lynnie.
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Duane
                      > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 5:08 AM
                      > Subject: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...
                      >
                      > OK I see what you are getting at. A convertor is just a charger
                      > anyway.
                      >
                      > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "lou" <loulh@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Duane -
                      > >
                      > > I used only a battery charger for many years back when
                      converters
                      > weren't even considered. They do just fine. If the items you are
                      > running off the 12 v is more than the charger can handle, it
                      draws
                      > the rest from the battery and when you shut them off it resumes
                      > charging the battery. The only thing you have to look out for is
                      the
                      > newest "smart" chargers as they require a certain voltage in the
                      > battery before they will work and I think they are also tied into
                      > some time limit for the charging cycle, not sure of that though.
                      Any
                      > of the older types are fine for our use but we might look for one
                      > that will not overcharge the battery as some of the cheapest ones
                      > might.
                      > >
                      > > regards,
                      > > lou
                      > > ==============================================
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: Duane
                      > > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:53 PM
                      > > Subject: [classicrv] Re: Batteries boiled dry from charging...
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > You are forgetting that the convertor supplies voltage to your
                      > 12V
                      > > lights, possibly the refer circuit(depending on it's age), the
                      > water
                      > > heater - ditto refer, and anyother 12v device that you may have
                      > that
                      > > does not run off the battery.
                      > >
                      > > --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Lynnie Whitefield"
                      <birdman1@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I don't think the beer method would work either. When the
                      > converter
                      > > in our 89 model rig bites the dust(and maybe before) I am
                      > thinking
                      > > seriously about replacing the charging part with an electronic
                      > self
                      > > regulsting battery charger, From my observations they are
                      > cheaper.
                      > > Only the charger part of the converter actually wears out as
                      the
                      > > other part is just a breaker box for the circuits.
                      > > >
                      > > > Lynnie
                      > > >
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: Ron Mitchell
                      > > > To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:58 AM
                      > > > Subject: Re: [classicrv] Batteries boiled dry from charging...
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Don't waste the beer on the battery. The only thing to go in
                      > > those
                      > > > holes is distilled water. I've tried the distilled water
                      route
                      > > > myself, only to end up replacing the battery a month later,
                      > > anyway.
                      > > > You can give it a try to see if it will hold charge, it's
                      cheap
                      > > > enough to be worth a try, but once they boil down below the
                      > > plates,
                      > > > they're usually gone. I've heard of some
                      battery "rejuvenator"
                      > > stuff,
                      > > > but I've never tried it.
                      > > > I picked up a cheap tester (around $15 on sale) from Harbor
                      > > > Freight. That was a good investment. I use it on the cars,
                      RV,
                      > > > tractor, etc. The small one (50A) seems to be enough to tell
                      > the
                      > > tale.
                      > > > I'm going to wire in a new "battery maintainer" (around $20)
                      > that
                      > > > is a 1.5A trickle charge that tapers off at full charge to
                      > > eliminate
                      > > > the "boil". I figure I can just put a switch on the regular
                      > > charger,
                      > > > to use when the batteries are low and really need the higher
                      > > > amperage. I don't feel like replacing the whole converter
                      just
                      > to
                      > > get
                      > > > a better battery charger.
                      > > >
                      > > > Ron
                      > > > 76 Coachmen
                      > > >
                      > > > At 12:14 AM 02/06/2008, you wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > >Batteries boiled dry from charging...
                      > > > >
                      > > > >IS THERE ANY WAY TO REJUVENATE THEM. I HAVE ADDED DISTILLED
                      > > WATER AND
                      > > > >AM TRYING TO CHARGE THEM NOW. i HAVE BEEN TOLD IT WILL AND
                      > WON'T
                      > > WORK.
                      > > > >ALSO BEEN TOLD THAT PUTTING BEER IN THEM WILL FIX IT??
                      > > > >
                      > > > >HAVE YOU HAD ANY SUCCESS OR IS IT TIME TO BUY NEW
                      > BATTERIES......
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                      > > ----------
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1262 - Release
                      > Date:
                      > > 2/6/2008 9:13 AM
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      > ----------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date:
                      2/9/2008 11:54 AM
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
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