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Re: [classicrv] Re:RV sales scams

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  • Kevin Preston
    Yes I have heard of this scam. The part I don t understand is the bank requesting you to cover the bad check. For example, if I go to my bank and deposit a
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 28, 2005
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      Yes I have heard of this scam.

      The part I don't understand is the bank requesting you
      to cover the bad check.

      For example, if I go to my bank and deposit a check, I
      cannot get those funds until that check clears the
      other bank. Or, if I have sufficient funds to cover
      it, they will surely cash it, but of course, the funds
      in my account covering the check would be locked.

      So, are some banks outright cashing the checks because
      they are drawn on another bank? In my mind, if they
      decide to honor a check without putting a hold on
      funds, THEY are on the hook. Not the customer. Guess
      I am not right though!

      What would prevent someone from telling the bank screw
      you, your problem?

      The way to handle these buyers is easy. Tell the
      buyer to wire the money, come with a check from his
      bank that HE cashes at your bank and gives you the
      cash right there in the bank--not involving you in the
      transaction at all. Or come with a suitcase of money.
      Or better yet, work with an escrow company if it's an
      expensive item.


      --- Craig N Eggerman <eggerman@...> wrote:

      > Today I got a $9,500 cashier's check in the mail for
      > a motor home we have
      > for sale for $7000. Most of these spoofs disappear
      > when I tell them there
      > is a $100 deposit before we talk any further. This
      > one went a little
      > further and sent the check. The Bank the check is
      > written on is valid.
      > The check is not. The common thread is somebody
      > overseas wants to buy it
      > and they will pay me extra to payback to somebody
      > state side. What
      > happens if you cash the check is in two weeks or
      > more your bank advises
      > that the check is no good and they want you to cover
      > the $9500 demand. or
      > the difference. The Wyoming Attorney General's
      > office advises that this
      > is a different version of the same old fraud scheme
      > they have seen for
      > years. They will not pursue them because there is no
      > way to apprehend
      > them. Ignore these things if you get any.
      >
      >




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    • Joseph
      Hi Folks, I m new to this group and I would love to put in my share on this thread. The last I remember on the green-backs it said IN GOD WE TRUST , Now every
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 1 8:25 AM
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        Hi Folks, I'm new to this group and I would love to put in my share
        on this thread. The last I remember on the green-backs it said "IN
        GOD WE TRUST", Now every body eles pays CASH. Joseph
        >
        > In every case I told them that if they had a cashiers check then
        they had access to actual cash and that is all I would accept.
        >
        > This is a real problem! People have been screwed!
      • Ron Mitchell
        This is nutz. If I deposit ANY check in my account, the money isn t really there until it clears the other bank. Now if I spend the money before it clears
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 1 9:27 AM
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          This is nutz. If I deposit ANY check in my account, the money isn't really
          there until it clears the other bank. Now if I spend the money before it
          clears (assuming the bank lets me do that), well then, I guess I'd be
          responsible. But if I wait until it clears (or doesn't), there's no way I'm
          responsible to cover the amount of the check. I may get hit with an
          "administrative fee" for the bounced check, but that's it.
          Now I have seen promissory notes (loans) that come to you looking like a
          check. If you sign and deposit the check, you are agreeing to a loan. Maybe
          this is what's going on. Read anything very carefully before you sign,
          there are lots of scams going on out there. Joseph has the right idea, Cash
          is nice.


          At 11:25 AM 3/1/05, you wrote:



          >Hi Folks, I'm new to this group and I would love to put in my share
          >on this thread. The last I remember on the green-backs it said "IN
          >GOD WE TRUST", Now every body eles pays CASH. Joseph
          > >
          > > In every case I told them that if they had a cashiers check then
          >they had access to actual cash and that is all I would accept.
          > >
          > > This is a real problem! People have been screwed!
          >
          >
          >
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        • Roger Phillips
          ... Yes, cash is nice...this scam has been running around for quite a while, and I see it a LOT on my RC Airplane list. You offer something up for, say, $2000.
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 1 9:40 AM
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            >
            > Now I have seen promissory notes (loans) that come to you looking like a
            >check. If you sign and deposit the check, you are agreeing to a loan. Maybe
            >this is what's going on. Read anything very carefully before you sign,
            >there are lots of scams going on out there. Joseph has the right idea, Cash
            >is nice.


            Yes, cash is nice...this scam has been running around for quite a while,
            and I see it a LOT on my RC Airplane list. You offer something up for, say,
            $2000. The buyer says all he has is a Cashier's Check for $3100. He will
            send it to you, tell you to take out the $2000, plus another $100 or $200
            "for your troubles", send the remainder to him, or someone in the area
            sometimes pick it up. So, being the trusting person you are, you send him
            the $900. What they are counting on, is you sending the $900 BEFORE you
            wait for the Cashier's Check to clear your bank. A lot of people will do
            it, I guess, since a Cashier's Check is as good as cash, right?? Then, the
            Cashier's Check is found to be fake. So the bank comes after you for the
            $900, or just takes it out of your account, if it's in there.

            It's even worse, if the buyer "arranges" for someone close to pick up the
            item, PLUS the $900...then you are out both!

            Just make sure you wait until whatever they send you - check, cashier's
            check, etc - CLEAR THE BANK before completing the transaction, or sending
            any money. But my advice would be, ANYTIME someone offers you more "for
            your troubles", you are paying a LOT "for your troubles".
          • Ron Mitchell
            OK, now I understand the scam. I never trust anything, until the cash is in my hand or clears in my account. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 1 9:47 AM
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              OK, now I understand the scam. I never trust anything, until the cash is in
              my hand or clears in my account.

              At 12:40 PM 3/1/05, you wrote:

              > >
              > > Now I have seen promissory notes (loans) that come to you looking like a
              > >check. If you sign and deposit the check, you are agreeing to a loan. Maybe
              > >this is what's going on. Read anything very carefully before you sign,
              > >there are lots of scams going on out there. Joseph has the right idea, Cash
              > >is nice.
              >
              >
              >Yes, cash is nice...this scam has been running around for quite a while,
              >and I see it a LOT on my RC Airplane list. You offer something up for, say,
              >$2000. The buyer says all he has is a Cashier's Check for $3100. He will
              >send it to you, tell you to take out the $2000, plus another $100 or $200
              >"for your troubles", send the remainder to him, or someone in the area
              >sometimes pick it up. So, being the trusting person you are, you send him
              >the $900. What they are counting on, is you sending the $900 BEFORE you
              >wait for the Cashier's Check to clear your bank. A lot of people will do
              >it, I guess, since a Cashier's Check is as good as cash, right?? Then, the
              >Cashier's Check is found to be fake. So the bank comes after you for the
              >$900, or just takes it out of your account, if it's in there.
              >
              >It's even worse, if the buyer "arranges" for someone close to pick up the
              >item, PLUS the $900...then you are out both!
              >
              >Just make sure you wait until whatever they send you - check, cashier's
              >check, etc - CLEAR THE BANK before completing the transaction, or sending
              >any money. But my advice would be, ANYTIME someone offers you more "for
              >your troubles", you are paying a LOT "for your troubles".
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • bob woods
              Joseph has the right idea, Cash is nice. Even that can get you in trouble, I sold a used car for cash and the buyer didn t transfer the title and the plates
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 1 9:50 AM
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                Joseph has the right idea, Cash
                is nice.

                Even that can get you in trouble, I sold a used car for cash and the
                buyer didn't transfer the title and the plates were used on another
                vehicle in a 7-11 hold up. Needless to say that was one phone call I
                didn't enjoy receiving. Accept only cash and notify your state vehicle
                licensing agency if you sell a vehicle. And look carefully at the cash.



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              • Glenn
                Be advised that this can happen with a vehicle trade-in as well. I traded a 93 LeBaron at a local dealership, and they sold it auction and the end result was
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 1 3:12 PM
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                  Be advised that this can happen with a vehicle trade-in as well. I
                  traded a 93 LeBaron at a local dealership, and they sold it auction
                  and the end result was that I was the last person the DMV could track
                  down on it. I had a bench warrant in PA! (Never been, don't plan on
                  it) for multiple parking tickets on the car that STILL HAD THE PLATE
                  on it. It took faxing the paperwork from the dealer trade-in to get
                  rid of that nightmare. Then getting ahold of my local DMV and having
                  them update the info about the vehicle. Luckily, the dealership in
                  question ended up in tons of trouble locally, so I didn't feel a
                  need to file suit, etc for my wasted time and effort, as there wasn't
                  a point to it once the BBB and the State regulators were
                  playing "whoop-a$$" on the dealer.

                  AZ has recently changed the rules with plates - you sell the vehicle,
                  you keep them or can trade in the value to sets you still have, but
                  I'm all for making sure that the DMV is notified of any change in
                  ownership. I had filled out the paperwork at the dealer, but
                  apparently the dealer didn't forward it to DMV. Also check to see if
                  your state has on-line access for sales notifications.

                  My $.02

                  Glenn in Tucson
                  78 Tioga

                  > Even that can get you in trouble, I sold a used car for cash and the
                  > buyer didn't transfer the title and the plates were used on another
                  > vehicle in a 7-11 hold up. Needless to say that was one phone call I
                  > didn't enjoy receiving. Accept only cash and notify your state
                  vehicle
                  > licensing agency if you sell a vehicle. And look carefully at the
                  cash.
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • Ron Mitchell
                  Here in MD, the plates stay with the seller. You have to turn them in after the sale. The buyer can do whatever with the title, etc., it s out of your hands.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 1 6:00 PM
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                    Here in MD, the plates stay with the seller. You have to turn them in after
                    the sale. The buyer can do whatever with the title, etc., it's out of your
                    hands.

                    At 12:50 PM 3/1/05, you wrote:

                    >Joseph has the right idea, Cash
                    >is nice.
                    >
                    >Even that can get you in trouble, I sold a used car for cash and the
                    >buyer didn't transfer the title and the plates were used on another
                    >vehicle in a 7-11 hold up. Needless to say that was one phone call I
                    >didn't enjoy receiving. Accept only cash and notify your state vehicle
                    >licensing agency if you sell a vehicle. And look carefully at the cash.
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                  • Jon
                    ... I had this scam just a few weeks ago and I still have the guys internet address and boy what a con! I would like to send this guy a little nuclear bome
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 2 9:59 PM
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                      --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Preston <kevintpreston@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > Yes I have heard of this scam.
                      >
                      > The part I don't understand is the bank requesting you
                      > to cover the bad check.
                      >
                      > For example, if I go to my bank and deposit a check, I
                      > cannot get those funds until that check clears the
                      > other bank. Or, if I have sufficient funds to cover
                      > it, they will surely cash it, but of course, the funds
                      > in my account covering the check would be locked.
                      >
                      > So, are some banks outright cashing the checks because
                      > they are drawn on another bank? In my mind, if they
                      > decide to honor a check without putting a hold on
                      > funds, THEY are on the hook. Not the customer. Guess
                      > I am not right though!
                      >
                      > What would prevent someone from telling the bank screw
                      > you, your problem?
                      >
                      > The way to handle these buyers is easy. Tell the
                      > buyer to wire the money, come with a check from his
                      > bank that HE cashes at your bank and gives you the
                      > cash right there in the bank--not involving you in the
                      > transaction at all. Or come with a suitcase of money.
                      > Or better yet, work with an escrow company if it's an
                      > expensive item.
                      >
                      >
                      > --- Craig N Eggerman <eggerman@j...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Today I got a $9,500 cashier's check in the mail for
                      > > a motor home we have
                      > > for sale for $7000. Most of these spoofs disappear
                      > > when I tell them there
                      > > is a $100 deposit before we talk any further. This
                      > > one went a little
                      > > further and sent the check. The Bank the check is
                      > > written on is valid.
                      > > The check is not. The common thread is somebody
                      > > overseas wants to buy it
                      > > and they will pay me extra to payback to somebody
                      > > state side. What
                      > > happens if you cash the check is in two weeks or
                      > > more your bank advises
                      > > that the check is no good and they want you to cover
                      > > the $9500 demand. or
                      > > the difference. The Wyoming Attorney General's
                      > > office advises that this
                      > > is a different version of the same old fraud scheme
                      > > they have seen for
                      > > years. They will not pursue them because there is no
                      > > way to apprehend
                      > > them. Ignore these things if you get any.

                      I had this scam just a few weeks ago and I still have the guys
                      internet address and boy what a con! I would like to send this guy a
                      little nuclear bome that would tidy his act up! Owell all these
                      people who pray on other fokes will get there just reward in hell!!
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                    • Kathy
                      just forwarding on the to group.... Also I will add my real story in my next post (too long to add here!). From: Craig N Eggerman To:
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 3 11:43 AM
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                        just forwarding on the to group.... Also I will add "my real
                        story" in
                        my next post (too long to add here!).


                        From: Craig N Eggerman <eggerman@...>
                        To: classicrv-owner@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RV sales scam
                        Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 19:13:13 -0700


                        Since some of you want clarification on checks that bounce, here is
                        what
                        happened to us last year. We sold a set of car speakers from the boys
                        car
                        for $40. The man that bought the speakers gave us a check on a closed
                        account. We cashed it and about two weeks later we got a notice from
                        our
                        bank that the check was not good and the mans bank would not honor the
                        check, The cost to us was a $30 fee from our bank and a loss of an
                        additional $40 for the speakers. Yes, the police have a warrant out
                        for
                        his arrest. The bank fees vary from bank to bank. I recently put a
                        stop
                        payment on an insurance company that had been auto deducting from a
                        checking account and that was $25.

                        The double dipper is if you do pay the crook the $2500 deferential and
                        then find out the check is no good.

                        The triple dipper is if you sign over the title and give them the RV,
                        then find out the check is no good and you paid the $2500
                        differential.
                      • Kathy
                        These scams have been going on for several years now. Most internet based for sale sites now warn the people who post their vehicles for sale about these
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 3 11:47 AM
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                          These scams have been going on for several years now.
                          Most internet based "for sale" sites now warn the people who
                          post their vehicles for sale about these scams, but I guess
                          not all of them!


                          My Story....

                          I personally was involved with one of these scams about 3 years ago
                          now. I was contacted by someone over sea's to sell them my RV. I
                          thought it was a scam, but played along. They sent me a "cashiers"
                          check for $12,000 "from a friend in the states" who owed them
                          $12,000" which was $6,000 more than my asking price. The deal was
                          for me to send them the extra $6,000 via Western Union money gram and
                          then they would contact me to make arrangements to pick up and ship
                          my RV to Africa at their expense not mine. Fair deal right? I get
                          my asking price, someone gets my RV all are happy! ~NOT~

                          My Answer to their offer was, OK, Send me the check, and AFTER the
                          funds are CLEARED (8 to 15 days) I'd gladly complete the deal. The
                          check arrived FedEx. Written on Bank of America. It ~looked~ legal
                          to the causal observer, but I am not the causal observer, I work in
                          the banking industry. I called Bank of America, gave them the
                          orginating
                          branch and chashiers check number. As suspected, it was NOT a valid
                          check. (no such check number was ever issued from ANY BofA bank).

                          I emailed the "buyer" nicely, and said "the check is fake"....
                          complete the
                          deal with cash if you still want the RV, they never replied, but
                          previously
                          they replied to all my email conversation with them.

                          What tipped me off??
                          1. too good to be true??? Who buys an RV sight unseen and
                          for the asking price, no negoting of price or anything.

                          2. "send me cash via Western Union"... why can't the friend
                          just send the cash them selves if they are in the states
                          and "really" have the money they owe you?

                          3. the check... printing wasn't "PERFECT". No real
                          cashiers check would ever have such poor printing.
                          The name of the town the branch was in was mispelled.
                          The check number was "too short" 3 digits... what bank
                          would only have a 3 digit check number for ~official~
                          checks.... NONE they print THOUSANDS of cashiers checks
                          a day, and they do not start at 1 each day. And even if
                          they did, it would have been a 00000xxx not just a xxx number.

                          IF I had of deposted the check, and waited for it to have cleared I
                          would be responciable
                          for only the returned check fee imposed by the other bank. $25.00/
                          $30.00 what ever
                          their fee is.

                          I kept the check... may frame it someday...

                          Generally, a bank will require a 8-10 (or more) hold on the funds if
                          they can not validate
                          the check "on the spot". Now a days, (because of these types of
                          scams) more and
                          more banks are actually "making the call" when you go to deposit a
                          cashiers check to
                          validate it before even allowing you to depost it. If they don't do
                          either, and you
                          spend the money, the loss is YOURS if the check is not good.

                          The scammers hope that you have the extra few thousand dollars in
                          your account and
                          that you will take that $$ out while their fake check funds are "on
                          hold" and send them
                          your $$ which you will never get back. You are out your $$ and any
                          fees related to
                          their check bouncing and any checks of your own that may bounce
                          because of it.

                          If you wonder how your bank would handle it... ASK THEM ! They are
                          MORE THAN
                          HAPPY to explain their specific process, regulations and fees.

                          Oh.... and.... for those of you that believe "CASH", the good ole'
                          green back's are the
                          only way to go? WATCH OUT !!! If you get counterfiet cash... your
                          out as well!
                          And, It's harder to prosecute a cash deal, cause they will say they
                          did not give you
                          the counterfiet bills, they came from someone else you dealt with.
                          If you are going to
                          take large amounts of cash, go buy you a "counterfiet indentifing
                          pen/marker". YES
                          they make one... for a few bucks, it's WORTH IT. you simply "mark
                          the bills" and if the
                          color of the ink changes the bill is fake.

                          It's no longer a "buyer beware" world we live in... "SELLER
                          BEWARE"! and here is
                          another "gottcha" to watch for...

                          REGISTRATION SCAMS: you sell a vehicle to someone. they don't put
                          the registration
                          in their name but find a way to get tags (lost, borrowed, or stolen)
                          and drive the
                          vehicle without insurance.... get in an accident with it... or worse
                          yet, use it in a crime
                          spree... the victoms of the accident or crime hunt YOU down as the
                          registered owner
                          of the vechile if they find out the VIN number (the criminal
                          abandoned the vehicle). You
                          never reported it stolen (cause it wasn't, you sold it). Are you
                          liable?? In some states
                          YES. What to do to guard yourself? 1. make a copy of the
                          registration paper AFTER
                          you, and the buyer and the notary have signed it. 2. go with the
                          buyer to the DMV and
                          only turn the registration over to the DMV for them to put start the
                          process of changing
                          it to the new owner upon the sale. Just like car dealers do... when
                          you by a car from
                          a dealer you get a 30day (or what ever your state has) temporary
                          licence plate. They
                          send the registration papers in for you.... you get your registration
                          papers and title if
                          you paid cash back in the mail... if not, your title goes to the
                          lending company until you
                          pay the loan of.

                          food for thought... the world is not full of good ole' honest
                          people who's word or hand
                          shake was better than any written contract could ever be any
                          more... those days are
                          GONE my friends....

                          Kathy AKA Mom...
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