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Dodge Sportsman 360 Ignition Problem

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  • Robert Sheaffer
    I have a 1974 Travel Queen RV which is mounted on the chassis of a Dodge Sportsman, 360 V-8 engine, 2-barrel carb. It has been running fairly well, except for
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 29, 2004
      I have a 1974 Travel Queen RV which is mounted on the chassis of a
      Dodge Sportsman, 360 V-8 engine, 2-barrel carb.

      It has been running fairly well, except for the poor gas mileage
      (around 7.5). There is some occasional misfiring and backfiring.

      I decided to replace the spark plug wires to try to improve this. With
      new spark plug wires, I didn't hear any misfiring or backfiring, I
      just ran it for a few minutes.

      Then I replaced the distributor cap and rotor. Should be simple,
      right? But cylinder 1 was NOT marked on the old cap, and in moving the
      wires over, more than one fell off at a time.

      Not a problem, I thought. I have the shop manual, all that info is in
      there. The cylinder numbers are clearly shown, and the firing order is
      1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 on the V8 engines. I labelled all the wires, and
      hooked them up in that order, going clockwise from #1 (the manual says
      that the distributor on the 360 engine rotates clockwise). Pin 1 is
      well-labelled in the new cap.

      But it doesn't start, just cranks. It used to start up pretty well. So
      what's the problem? Anyone have any ideas?

      Robert
    • Merle & Mary Campbell Jr.
      I am assuming a 1974 Class C Travel Queen to be quite heavy. 7.5 miles per gallon would seem to me to be to be fairly good considering the year and weight.
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 29, 2004
        I am assuming a 1974 Class "C" Travel Queen to be quite heavy. 7.5
        miles per gallon would seem to me to be to be fairly good considering
        the year and weight.

        This considering our much lighter in comparison 1976 Dodge Maxi
        Conversion van 3 sp auto, with 360 cu., with Hedman Headers and 2
        each side flow through mufflers w/2 barrel, averages about 8.5 mpg to
        10.5 mpg. Worse case down in the sevens and best case 13 mpg only
        once. It never gets 12 mpg unless there is one heck of a tail wind,
        so the 13mpg was a very rare fluke.

        The Dodge motors are really good motors in my opinion. The military
        has had very good luck with the dodge trucks in the 60's and 70's.
        Some of the six's seemed to go forever... and the older V8's are
        tough and powerful. We have had a lot of trouble trying to keep
        exhaust gaskets on the right side. Get on it hard just once and it
        blows the siamesed center 2 ports. I have put a number of exhaust
        gaskets in and finally gave up. I just let-er leak..v

        Merle


        --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Sheaffer" <roberto@d...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I have a 1974 Travel Queen RV which is mounted on the chassis of a
        > Dodge Sportsman, 360 V-8 engine, 2-barrel carb.
        >
        > It has been running fairly well, except for the poor gas mileage
        > (around 7.5). >
      • denisond3d3
        The cylinder numbers are clearly shown, and the firing order is ... says that the distributor on the 360 engine rotates clockwise). Pin 1 is well-labelled in
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 29, 2004
          The cylinder numbers are clearly shown, and the firing order is
          > 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 on the V8 engines. I labelled all the wires, and
          > hooked them up in that order, going clockwise from #1 (the manual
          says that the distributor on the 360 engine rotates clockwise). Pin 1
          is well-labelled in the new cap.
          It used to start up pretty well. So what's the problem? Anyone have
          any ideas?
          >
          On the big block mopar engines the distributor drive can be
          inserted into the block two ways - one of them being 180 degrees out.
          This means that when the rotor should be pointing at the terminal for
          cylinder #1, it would be pointing instead to the opposite side of the
          cap. That may be the case you find yourself in, if the small block
          distributor drives also have symetrical keying.
          Not a problem though; if you turn the crankshaft so the timing slot
          on the front pulley damper is opposite the zero dent on the timing
          marks, then the rotor in the distributor would be pointing either to
          the terminal in the cap for cylinder #1, Or the terminal for the
          cylinder halfway around the firing order - # 6. There isnt any easy
          way to tell, but you have a 50% chance of getting the spark plug wires
          on it correctly on the first try. If the distributor was put in with
          the shaft 180 degrees out, the spark plug wires just have to go back
          on the cap swapped 180 degrees around from where they usually go.
          Is it is also possible the distributor got twisted a few degrees
          while you were working on it?
          As far as I know the mopars with the distributor at the back of the
          engine all turn clockwise, and the 440s turn counter-clockwise. Its
          easy to tell this. Just crank the engine briefly with the distributor
          cap removed.
          While you are at it, put a drop on oil onto the felt wick in the
          middle of the distributor shaft, under the rotor. This lubricates the
          centrifugal advance mechanism. People forget to lube this important
          spot. A drop each 10k or 20k miles.
        • Bill Combs
          ... The 360 distributor does rotate clockwise viewed from the top. The diagrams in the shop manual, however, can be misleading as to exactly which tower is #1.
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 29, 2004
            On Dec 29, 2004, at 6:33 PM, Robert Sheaffer wrote:

            > I have the shop manual, all that info is in there. The cylinder
            > numbers are clearly shown, and the firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 on
            > the V8 engines. I labelled all the wires, and hooked them up in that
            > order, going clockwise from #1 (the manual says that the distributor
            > on the 360 engine rotates clockwise). Pin 1 is well-labelled in the
            > new cap.

            The 360 distributor does rotate clockwise viewed from the top. The
            diagrams in the shop manual, however, can be misleading as to exactly
            which tower is #1. Do not depend on those for exact location. Instead,
            do as denisond3@... suggests: line up the timing mark (repeat
            if necessary) until the rotor is pointing somewhere in the semicircle
            toward the front of the engine.

            If, after reconnecting the wires using the tower toward which the rotor
            is pointing as #1, the engine still does not start your timing may have
            been disturbed. There is a procedure for setting the timing in the
            ballpark using only a 12v test bulb or a multimeter. That procedure is
            adequately described in the shop manual. Alternately, if you have a
            timing light, you could set the timing (again in the ballpark) by
            following the normal timing procedure while cranking the engine; it
            does not have to be running.

            In any case, set the timing to spec after the engine starts, following
            all the normal procedures (disconnect and plug vacuum line, warm
            engine, idle set properly, etc.). Or have someone do the final timing
            for you. [The 318/360 engines are quite sensitive to ignition timing;
            it pays to take extra care.]
            --
            Regards,
            Bill Combs <ttursine@...>
            http://home.earthlink.net/~ttursine
            --
            Chaos, panic, disorder...
            my work here is done.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Robert Sheaffer
            Thanks. I thought about the possibility of a 180-degree error in installing the cap, but there is a single notch on the cap and a corresponging tab on the
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 29, 2004
              Thanks. I thought about the possibility of a 180-degree error in
              installing the cap, but there is a single notch on the cap and a
              corresponging tab on the base, facing the engine, so that doesn't seem
              possible. The little vent on the top of the new cap is 180-degrees
              from where the old one was, but in the instructions it says quite
              plainly that this doesn't mean anything.

              I think that perhaps the marking for Cylinder 1 must be wrong on the
              new cap. The old one had no marking at all. It was covered with dust
              so I figured there must be a marking under it somewhere. But I brought
              it in & cleaned it up - nope.

              Thanks for the hint about lubing under the rotor.

              Robert

              --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "denisond3d3" <denisond3@h...> wrote:

              > On the big block mopar engines the distributor drive can be
              > inserted into the block two ways - one of them being 180 degrees out.
              > This means that when the rotor should be pointing at the terminal for
              > cylinder #1, it would be pointing instead to the opposite side of the
              > cap. That may be the case you find yourself in, if the small block
              > distributor drives also have symetrical keying.
              > Not a problem though; if you turn the crankshaft so the timing slot
              > on the front pulley damper is opposite the zero dent on the timing
              > marks, then the rotor in the distributor would be pointing either to
              > the terminal in the cap for cylinder #1, Or the terminal for the
              > cylinder halfway around the firing order - # 6. There isnt any easy
              > way to tell, but you have a 50% chance of getting the spark plug wires
              > on it correctly on the first try. If the distributor was put in with
              > the shaft 180 degrees out, the spark plug wires just have to go back
              > on the cap swapped 180 degrees around from where they usually go.
              > Is it is also possible the distributor got twisted a few degrees
              > while you were working on it?
              > As far as I know the mopars with the distributor at the back of the
              > engine all turn clockwise, and the 440s turn counter-clockwise. Its
              > easy to tell this. Just crank the engine briefly with the distributor
              > cap removed.
              > While you are at it, put a drop on oil onto the felt wick in the
              > middle of the distributor shaft, under the rotor. This lubricates the
              > centrifugal advance mechanism. People forget to lube this important
              > spot. A drop each 10k or 20k miles.
            • Frank Andthebeans
              Just a quick thought, if you take out number one spark plug and turn the engine over until that cyl comes up on compression stoke and the timing marks at at
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 29, 2004
                Just a quick thought, if you take out number one spark plug and turn the
                engine over until that cyl comes up on compression stoke and the timing
                marks at at top dead centre (0) degrees, the dist rotors should be pointing
                at number one high tension wire in the cap.
                Another though, you should be lubing the weights with WD 40 then wipe them
                dry, oil will only make them sticky when dirt and dust gets in there. Just a
                thought.
                Frankandthebeans



                >From: "Robert Sheaffer" <roberto@...>
                >Reply-To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                >To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [classicrv] Re: Dodge Sportsman 360 Ignition Problem
                >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 03:00:32 -0000
                >
                >
                >
                >Thanks. I thought about the possibility of a 180-degree error in
                >installing the cap, but there is a single notch on the cap and a
                >corresponging tab on the base, facing the engine, so that doesn't seem
                >possible. The little vent on the top of the new cap is 180-degrees
                >from where the old one was, but in the instructions it says quite
                >plainly that this doesn't mean anything.
                >
                >I think that perhaps the marking for Cylinder 1 must be wrong on the
                >new cap. The old one had no marking at all. It was covered with dust
                >so I figured there must be a marking under it somewhere. But I brought
                >it in & cleaned it up - nope.
                >
                >Thanks for the hint about lubing under the rotor.
                >
                > Robert
                >
                >--- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "denisond3d3" <denisond3@h...> wrote:
                >
                > > On the big block mopar engines the distributor drive can be
                > > inserted into the block two ways - one of them being 180 degrees out.
                > > This means that when the rotor should be pointing at the terminal for
                > > cylinder #1, it would be pointing instead to the opposite side of the
                > > cap. That may be the case you find yourself in, if the small block
                > > distributor drives also have symetrical keying.
                > > Not a problem though; if you turn the crankshaft so the timing slot
                > > on the front pulley damper is opposite the zero dent on the timing
                > > marks, then the rotor in the distributor would be pointing either to
                > > the terminal in the cap for cylinder #1, Or the terminal for the
                > > cylinder halfway around the firing order - # 6. There isnt any easy
                > > way to tell, but you have a 50% chance of getting the spark plug wires
                > > on it correctly on the first try. If the distributor was put in with
                > > the shaft 180 degrees out, the spark plug wires just have to go back
                > > on the cap swapped 180 degrees around from where they usually go.
                > > Is it is also possible the distributor got twisted a few degrees
                > > while you were working on it?
                > > As far as I know the mopars with the distributor at the back of the
                > > engine all turn clockwise, and the 440s turn counter-clockwise. Its
                > > easy to tell this. Just crank the engine briefly with the distributor
                > > cap removed.
                > > While you are at it, put a drop on oil onto the felt wick in the
                > > middle of the distributor shaft, under the rotor. This lubricates the
                > > centrifugal advance mechanism. People forget to lube this important
                > > spot. A drop each 10k or 20k miles.
                >
                >
                >
              • denisond3d3
                ... seem ... With the #1 piston at top dead center, its hard to tell if its at the end of the compression stroke, or the end of its exhaust stroke - unless you
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                  > Thanks. I thought about the possibility of a 180-degree error in
                  > installing the cap, but there is a single notch on the cap and a
                  > corresponging tab on the base, facing the engine, so that doesn't
                  seem
                  > possible. The little vent on the top of the new cap is 180-degrees
                  > from where the old one was, but in the instructions it says quite
                  > plainly that this doesn't mean anything.
                  >
                  > I think that perhaps the marking for Cylinder 1 must be wrong on the
                  > new cap. The old one had no marking at all.

                  With the #1 piston at top dead center, its hard to tell if its at
                  the end of the compression stroke, or the end of its exhaust stroke -
                  unless you have a valve cover off to watch the valve actuators not-
                  moving. Anyway, if the distributor was inserted into the block with
                  its shaft turned 180 degrees off, the rotor would also be pointing
                  180 degrees out. But, its only on the 413s and 440s that I KNOW that
                  is easy to do. (Have done it myself) I havent had a 318 distributor
                  out to look at the key. It would also be all too easy to put the
                  oil pump drive shaft back in wrong. It has about 18 teeth, and
                  should be installed with the #1 piston at tdc, and the slot that
                  turns the distributor facing a certain way. If someone installed the
                  oil pump drive shaft "off" by one or more teeth, you would have to
                  compensate for it: by either turning the case of the distributor to
                  where the terminal on the cap marked #1 was in front of the rotor
                  end, or by reinstalling the wires on the cap where they need to be,
                  not where the cap had the #1 label.
                  I would not expect the marking for cylinder # 1 on the cap
                  to be incorrect ---IF the distributor and its drive had been
                  installed correctly, and the distributor case was positioned in more
                  or less the original direction. Thats why I would fall back on
                  getting the #1 piston to tdc, and seeing which way the rotor points.
                  It would either be pointing to the position for #1 cylinder, or for
                  #6. This would be regardless of which way the distributor case had
                  been installed, or if the shaft was 180 degrees wrong, or whether
                  someone had put the oil pump driving shaft back in a wrong
                  orientation.
                • Jerry Sims
                  After reading about the Dodge Sportsman 360 Ignition problem, I am reminded of a problem I encounter several years ago working on similar ignition problems. I
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                    After reading about the Dodge Sportsman 360 Ignition problem, I am reminded of a problem I encounter several years ago working on similar ignition problems. I changed the wires, distributor cap and etc. some where in the process the timing gear stripped. Leaving me dumb founded because I continued to reset the timing and checking the location of the wires and etc. until I realized the timing gear was stripped.

                    Jerry Sims

                    mail to: jjsims@...



                    denisond3d3 <denisond3@...> wrote:

                    > Thanks. I thought about the possibility of a 180-degree error in
                    > installing the cap, but there is a single notch on the cap and a
                    > corresponging tab on the base, facing the engine, so that doesn't
                    seem
                    > possible. The little vent on the top of the new cap is 180-degrees
                    > from where the old one was, but in the instructions it says quite
                    > plainly that this doesn't mean anything.
                    >
                    > I think that perhaps the marking for Cylinder 1 must be wrong on the
                    > new cap. The old one had no marking at all.

                    With the #1 piston at top dead center, its hard to tell if its at
                    the end of the compression stroke, or the end of its exhaust stroke -
                    unless you have a valve cover off to watch the valve actuators not-
                    moving. Anyway, if the distributor was inserted into the block with
                    its shaft turned 180 degrees off, the rotor would also be pointing
                    180 degrees out. But, its only on the 413s and 440s that I KNOW that
                    is easy to do. (Have done it myself) I havent had a 318 distributor
                    out to look at the key. It would also be all too easy to put the
                    oil pump drive shaft back in wrong. It has about 18 teeth, and
                    should be installed with the #1 piston at tdc, and the slot that
                    turns the distributor facing a certain way. If someone installed the
                    oil pump drive shaft "off" by one or more teeth, you would have to
                    compensate for it: by either turning the case of the distributor to
                    where the terminal on the cap marked #1 was in front of the rotor
                    end, or by reinstalling the wires on the cap where they need to be,
                    not where the cap had the #1 label.
                    I would not expect the marking for cylinder # 1 on the cap
                    to be incorrect ---IF the distributor and its drive had been
                    installed correctly, and the distributor case was positioned in more
                    or less the original direction. Thats why I would fall back on
                    getting the #1 piston to tdc, and seeing which way the rotor points.
                    It would either be pointing to the position for #1 cylinder, or for
                    #6. This would be regardless of which way the distributor case had
                    been installed, or if the shaft was 180 degrees wrong, or whether
                    someone had put the oil pump driving shaft back in a wrong
                    orientation.





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                  • Robert Sheaffer
                    Stripped timing gear? I m beginning to think that something like that may have happened, although at no point was there any actual ignition. I would think that
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                      Stripped timing gear? I'm beginning to think that something like that
                      may have happened, although at no point was there any actual ignition.
                      I would think that you wouldn't strip the timing gear unless the
                      engine actually started up, but badly wrong.

                      There are only 8 possible candidates for the distributor position of
                      cylinder 1. I tried each of them, always insuring that the clockwise
                      order of the wires is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. In none of the 8 positions does
                      it start.

                      Maybe somehow the spark isn't getting through? I hooked up a timing
                      light to a spark plug wire. It flashes while cranking. Also, I
                      verified the position of the distributor to see if maybe it
                      accidentally got loose and rotated. No, it still lines up with a mark
                      I made earlier.

                      But tell me, HOW would a timing gear get stripped? How could you tell
                      if this happened? If the timing light flashes, doesn't this mean that
                      the timing gear is OK?

                      Actually, the *only* thing that changed since it was running great was
                      this cap and rotor. The new wires worked just great. I'm running low
                      on ideas at the moment......

                      Robert

                      --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Sims <jerry_j_sims@y...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > After reading about the Dodge Sportsman 360 Ignition problem, I am
                      reminded of a problem I encounter several years ago working on similar
                      ignition problems. I changed the wires, distributor cap and etc. some
                      where in the process the timing gear stripped. Leaving me dumb
                      founded because I continued to reset the timing and checking the
                      location of the wires and etc. until I realized the timing gear was
                      stripped.
                      >
                      > Jerry Sims
                      >
                      > mail to: jjsims@i...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > denisond3d3 <denisond3@h...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Thanks. I thought about the possibility of a 180-degree error in
                      > > installing the cap, but there is a single notch on the cap and a
                      > > corresponging tab on the base, facing the engine, so that doesn't
                      > seem
                      > > possible. The little vent on the top of the new cap is 180-degrees
                      > > from where the old one was, but in the instructions it says quite
                      > > plainly that this doesn't mean anything.
                      > >
                      > > I think that perhaps the marking for Cylinder 1 must be wrong on
                      the
                      > > new cap. The old one had no marking at all.
                      >
                      > With the #1 piston at top dead center, its hard to tell if its
                      at
                      > the end of the compression stroke, or the end of its exhaust stroke
                      -
                      > unless you have a valve cover off to watch the valve actuators not-
                      > moving. Anyway, if the distributor was inserted into the block
                      with
                      > its shaft turned 180 degrees off, the rotor would also be pointing
                      > 180 degrees out. But, its only on the 413s and 440s that I KNOW
                      that
                      > is easy to do. (Have done it myself) I havent had a 318
                      distributor
                      > out to look at the key. It would also be all too easy to put the
                      > oil pump drive shaft back in wrong. It has about 18 teeth, and
                      > should be installed with the #1 piston at tdc, and the slot that
                      > turns the distributor facing a certain way. If someone installed
                      the
                      > oil pump drive shaft "off" by one or more teeth, you would have to
                      > compensate for it: by either turning the case of the distributor to
                      > where the terminal on the cap marked #1 was in front of the rotor
                      > end, or by reinstalling the wires on the cap where they need to be,
                      > not where the cap had the #1 label.
                      > I would not expect the marking for cylinder # 1 on the cap
                      > to be incorrect ---IF the distributor and its drive had been
                      > installed correctly, and the distributor case was positioned in
                      more
                      > or less the original direction. Thats why I would fall back on
                      > getting the #1 piston to tdc, and seeing which way the rotor
                      points.
                      > It would either be pointing to the position for #1 cylinder, or for
                      > #6. This would be regardless of which way the distributor case had
                      > been installed, or if the shaft was 180 degrees wrong, or whether
                      > someone had put the oil pump driving shaft back in a wrong
                      > orientation.
                    • Roger Phillips
                      ... I may be wrong, but if you stripped the timing gear, you would probably have more problems than just not starting - It happened in my 75 360 pickup. Bent
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                        At 07:11 PM 12/30/2004 +0000, you wrote:


                        >Stripped timing gear? I'm beginning to think that something like that
                        >may have happened, although at no point was there any actual ignition.
                        >I would think that you wouldn't strip the timing gear unless the
                        >engine actually started up, but badly wrong.
                        >
                        >There are only 8 possible candidates for the distributor position of
                        >cylinder 1. I tried each of them, always insuring that the clockwise
                        >order of the wires is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. In none of the 8 positions does
                        >it start.
                        >
                        >Maybe somehow the spark isn't getting through? I hooked up a timing
                        >light to a spark plug wire. It flashes while cranking. Also, I
                        >verified the position of the distributor to see if maybe it
                        >accidentally got loose and rotated. No, it still lines up with a mark
                        >I made earlier.
                        >
                        >But tell me, HOW would a timing gear get stripped? How could you tell
                        >if this happened? If the timing light flashes, doesn't this mean that
                        >the timing gear is OK?
                        >
                        >Actually, the *only* thing that changed since it was running great was
                        >this cap and rotor. The new wires worked just great. I'm running low
                        >on ideas at the moment......
                        >
                        > Robert


                        I may be wrong, but if you stripped the timing gear, you would probably
                        have more problems than just not starting - It happened in my '75 360
                        pickup. Bent quite a few valves. If the timing gear is stripped, you won't
                        have any rotation of the rotor, because the distributer shaft won't be turning.

                        Have you thought about putting the old cap and rotor back on? Perhaps you
                        got one of the "rare" bad-out-of-the-box rotors or cap? I have seen it
                        happen - if something is "off", you will never get any spark...

                        If the timing light is flashing, you SHOULD have spark, perhaps not enough.
                        Take the plug wire off the cap, put a phillips screwdriver in the plug cap,
                        and put the screwdriver shaft close to ground, and have someone crank'er
                        over. You should have a nice, blue spark. If it's yellow, it's not hot
                        enough, and your coil may be weak.

                        Have you found TDC yet?

                        Just my $.02 worth...

                        Roger

                        *****************************************
                        Roger, Karen, and Heather Phillips
                        1982 32' Coachmen President
                        Oxford, Indiana
                        http://www.crbest.com/coachman
                        *****************************************

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Mark
                        Though not a Mopar engine, I had an Olds 455 which had fiber timing gears (for quieter operation). Hauling my 24 Airstream down the road one day, it started
                        Message 11 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                          Though not a Mopar engine, I had an Olds 455 which had fiber timing gears (for quieter operation). Hauling my 24' Airstream down the road one day, it started smoking, running badly, stuttering and sputtering, then, suddenly, it ran just fine, only to repeat the procedure a few miles down the road. It made it to the campsite, got the rig parked and disconnected, parked the car (Jaws) and that was the last it ran.

                          Turns out, the cam would go in and out of time, seemingly at random, as the timing chain would slip, then catch, then slip, etc. The distributor shaft would turn when cranking the engine over, but the spark timing was WAY off one minute, then close the next, then dead on, then...well, you get the picture.

                          Could THIS be happening with your Dodge engine? If you didn't remove the points, or change the timing, and it shows to be way off, you might have the same problem. On my 455, there was no contact between the pistons and valves. 360 Mopars might be different though...

                          My 1.5 cents worth.

                          Mark in Modesto
                          '78 Revcon 30
                          '62 Airstream Tradewind

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Robert Sheaffer
                          The rotor is definitely turning, else I would not get this regular spark while cranking. So I also think that whatever is wrong, it s not the timing gear. Yes,
                          Message 12 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                            The rotor is definitely turning, else I would not get this regular
                            spark while cranking. So I also think that whatever is wrong, it's not
                            the timing gear.

                            Yes, I tried putting back the old cap and rotor, marking where #1 is
                            based on the marked position on the new cap. I put cylinder 1 there,
                            then the rest of the wires in the firing order, clockwise. Still won't
                            start.

                            It was starting fine and running fine just before I started messing
                            with the cap, so it's unlikely that the coil just suddenly went bad.
                            But I'll check the spark.

                            I'm not sure what good it will do me to find TDC. The new cap is
                            marked for #1 clockwise, and I've marked the old cap correspondingly.
                            And I tried all 8 positions in any case.

                            Robert

                            --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Roger Phillips <antiqueflyer@c...>
                            wrote:

                            > I may be wrong, but if you stripped the timing gear, you would probably
                            > have more problems than just not starting - It happened in my '75 360
                            > pickup. Bent quite a few valves. If the timing gear is stripped, you
                            won't
                            > have any rotation of the rotor, because the distributer shaft won't
                            be turning.
                            >
                            > Have you thought about putting the old cap and rotor back on?
                            Perhaps you
                            > got one of the "rare" bad-out-of-the-box rotors or cap? I have seen it
                            > happen - if something is "off", you will never get any spark...
                            >
                            > If the timing light is flashing, you SHOULD have spark, perhaps not
                            enough.
                            > Take the plug wire off the cap, put a phillips screwdriver in the
                            plug cap,
                            > and put the screwdriver shaft close to ground, and have someone
                            crank'er
                            > over. You should have a nice, blue spark. If it's yellow, it's not hot
                            > enough, and your coil may be weak.
                            >
                            > Have you found TDC yet?
                            >
                            > Just my $.02 worth...
                            >
                            > Roger
                          • Frank Andthebeans
                            Ok lets keep this simple, take out number one spark plugs , turn the engine over until you feel compression coming up through the hole , at that point you
                            Message 13 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                              Ok lets keep this simple, take out number one spark plugs , turn the engine
                              over until you feel compression coming up through the hole , at that point
                              you should have top dead center coming up to the timimg mark, ( make sure
                              the mark is sitting in ) degrees) .Re and re your dist shaft and housing
                              making sure the rotor is pointing at number one high tension wire.then reset
                              your ign timing with a timing light.
                              If you think the timing chain/gears are worn or skip do a compression test
                              on all eight cyls. should be within twenty percent of each other.Also
                              another way to check the timing gears< Move the crank balancer back and
                              forth while watching the rotor the balancer should move any more the four
                              degree one way or the other before it moves the rotor.
                              If you wannt to test the voltage to plugs: buy a ST125 DELCO NUMBER(about
                              $10.00) at your local auto shop and that will test the secondary side of the
                              ign system,needs 30,000 volts to fire the ST125.
                              Not to be smart but as anyone check the fuel in the carb
                              Frankandthebeans
                              ,






                              >From: Roger Phillips <antiqueflyer@...>
                              >Reply-To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: Re: [classicrv] Re: Dodge Sportsman 360 Ignition Problem
                              >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:25:21 -0500
                              >
                              >At 07:11 PM 12/30/2004 +0000, you wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > >Stripped timing gear? I'm beginning to think that something like that
                              > >may have happened, although at no point was there any actual ignition.
                              > >I would think that you wouldn't strip the timing gear unless the
                              > >engine actually started up, but badly wrong.
                              > >
                              > >There are only 8 possible candidates for the distributor position of
                              > >cylinder 1. I tried each of them, always insuring that the clockwise
                              > >order of the wires is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. In none of the 8 positions does
                              > >it start.
                              > >
                              > >Maybe somehow the spark isn't getting through? I hooked up a timing
                              > >light to a spark plug wire. It flashes while cranking. Also, I
                              > >verified the position of the distributor to see if maybe it
                              > >accidentally got loose and rotated. No, it still lines up with a mark
                              > >I made earlier.
                              > >
                              > >But tell me, HOW would a timing gear get stripped? How could you tell
                              > >if this happened? If the timing light flashes, doesn't this mean that
                              > >the timing gear is OK?
                              > >
                              > >Actually, the *only* thing that changed since it was running great was
                              > >this cap and rotor. The new wires worked just great. I'm running low
                              > >on ideas at the moment......
                              > >
                              > > Robert
                              >
                              >
                              >I may be wrong, but if you stripped the timing gear, you would probably
                              >have more problems than just not starting - It happened in my '75 360
                              >pickup. Bent quite a few valves. If the timing gear is stripped, you won't
                              >have any rotation of the rotor, because the distributer shaft won't be
                              >turning.
                              >
                              >Have you thought about putting the old cap and rotor back on? Perhaps you
                              >got one of the "rare" bad-out-of-the-box rotors or cap? I have seen it
                              >happen - if something is "off", you will never get any spark...
                              >
                              >If the timing light is flashing, you SHOULD have spark, perhaps not enough.
                              >Take the plug wire off the cap, put a phillips screwdriver in the plug cap,
                              >and put the screwdriver shaft close to ground, and have someone crank'er
                              >over. You should have a nice, blue spark. If it's yellow, it's not hot
                              >enough, and your coil may be weak.
                              >
                              >Have you found TDC yet?
                              >
                              >Just my $.02 worth...
                              >
                              >Roger
                              >
                              >*****************************************
                              >Roger, Karen, and Heather Phillips
                              >1982 32' Coachmen President
                              >Oxford, Indiana
                              >http://www.crbest.com/coachman
                              >*****************************************
                              >
                              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • misterbuzzer
                              Hi Robert, I ve had a few of those Catch 22 type problems and I know how frustrated you must feel. Try just putting the old cap and rotor back on and see if
                              Message 14 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                                Hi Robert, I've had a few of those "Catch 22" type problems and I know
                                how frustrated you must feel.

                                Try just putting the old cap and rotor back on and see if it will
                                start then. Probably won't, but at least you won't be driving yourself
                                crazy in the chance that you were hit by a coincidental fluke.

                                I had a similar problem with my 454 and went nuts until I found I had
                                a flukey failure of the ignition module while it sat apart for a few
                                days.

                                Good luck, and keep on smiling.

                                Hale


                                --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Sheaffer" <roberto@d...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Stripped timing gear? I'm beginning to think that something like that
                                > may have happened, although at no point was there any actual ignition.
                                > I would think that you wouldn't strip the timing gear unless the
                                > engine actually started up, but badly wrong.
                                >snipped -
                              • Bill Combs
                                ... If the chain and sprockets are worn, the engine can de-index itself by one sprocket tooth. If this happens, proper timing as tested with a timing light
                                Message 15 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                                  On Dec 30, 2004, at 5:13 PM, Frank Andthebeans wrote:

                                  > Ok lets keep this simple, take out number one spark plugs , turn the
                                  > engine over until you feel compression coming up through the hole , at
                                  > that point you should have top dead center coming up to the timimg
                                  > mark, ( make sure the mark is sitting in ) degrees) .Re and re your
                                  > dist shaft and housing making sure the rotor is pointing at number one
                                  > high tension wire.then reset your ign timing with a timing light. If
                                  > you think the timing chain/gears are worn or skip do a compression
                                  > test on all eight cyls. should be within twenty percent of each
                                  > other.Also another way to check the timing gears< Move the crank
                                  > balancer back and forth while watching the rotor the balancer should
                                  > move any more the four degree one way or the other before it moves the
                                  > rotor. If you wannt to test the voltage to plugs: buy a ST125 DELCO
                                  > NUMBER(about $10.00) at your local auto shop and that will test the
                                  > secondary side of the ign system,needs 30,000 volts to fire the ST125.
                                  > Not to be smart but as anyone check the fuel in the carb
                                  > Frankandthebeans

                                  If the chain and sprockets are worn, the engine can de-index itself by
                                  one sprocket tooth. If this happens, "proper timing" as tested with a
                                  timing light can only be achieved with the distributor rotated very far
                                  out of a "normal" position corresponding roughly to the diagrams in the
                                  Service Manual (#1 tower pointing in the general direction of #2
                                  cylinder). The engine will run, but very poorly in terms of power and
                                  smoothness. If the chain "skips" a total of more than one tooth, the
                                  engine is unlikely to start.

                                  I had this exact occurrence, with the former symptoms, on a '77 318
                                  after about 100,000 miles of hauling a 3/4 ton van and, often, an
                                  assortment of boat trailers about the countryside. Replacing the chain
                                  and sprockets was a successful fix.

                                  Failing a sooner and simpler explanation: Your original problem may be
                                  a single sprocket tooth offset in the crank/cam timing gear, although
                                  that seems less likely if the misfiring and backfiring were only
                                  "occasional" as I believe you said. Try setting the timing using the
                                  static method or the timing light and see how the distributer is
                                  oriented. when finished. If it's way out, removing the timing chain
                                  cover is called for. Or a trip to the computerized diagnostic clinic.
                                  Either will expose any problem.
                                  --
                                  Regards,
                                  Bill Combs
                                  ttursine@...
                                  http://home.earthlink.net/~ttursine
                                  --
                                  History does not repeat
                                  itself, but it does rhyme.
                                  - Mark Twain

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Ron Mitchell
                                  Robert, If everything was working before you changed the cap & rotor and it doesn t work with the old cap & rotor on it now, I d check all of the other wires
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                                    Robert,
                                    If everything was working before you changed the cap & rotor and it
                                    doesn't work with the old cap & rotor on it now, I'd check all of the other
                                    wires for something else you might have disconnected from the distributor,
                                    coil or control unit. Finding TDC the way Frank suggested would go a long
                                    way toward making sure the rotor is pointing to the right #1 wire and end
                                    all of that confusion. Then hook a timing light to #1 and see if the timing
                                    is close. You should be able to get it close by just cranking, with the
                                    vacuum advance line disconnected and plugged. Has the distributor been
                                    loosened at all?
                                    I have a habit of using wire numbering tape (you can find at home
                                    centers) to number wires and then draw a diagram of where they go, before
                                    disassembling anything. I've been in a similar situation before, it's
                                    miserable.

                                    Ron
                                    96 Coachmen

                                    At 03:52 PM 12/30/04, you wrote:


                                    >The rotor is definitely turning, else I would not get this regular
                                    >spark while cranking. So I also think that whatever is wrong, it's not
                                    >the timing gear.
                                    >
                                    >Yes, I tried putting back the old cap and rotor, marking where #1 is
                                    >based on the marked position on the new cap. I put cylinder 1 there,
                                    >then the rest of the wires in the firing order, clockwise. Still won't
                                    >start.
                                    >
                                    >It was starting fine and running fine just before I started messing
                                    >with the cap, so it's unlikely that the coil just suddenly went bad.
                                    >But I'll check the spark.
                                    >
                                    >I'm not sure what good it will do me to find TDC. The new cap is
                                    >marked for #1 clockwise, and I've marked the old cap correspondingly.
                                    >And I tried all 8 positions in any case.
                                    >
                                    > Robert
                                    >
                                    >--- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Roger Phillips <antiqueflyer@c...>
                                    >wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > I may be wrong, but if you stripped the timing gear, you would probably
                                    > > have more problems than just not starting - It happened in my '75 360
                                    > > pickup. Bent quite a few valves. If the timing gear is stripped, you
                                    >won't
                                    > > have any rotation of the rotor, because the distributer shaft won't
                                    >be turning.
                                    > >
                                    > > Have you thought about putting the old cap and rotor back on?
                                    >Perhaps you
                                    > > got one of the "rare" bad-out-of-the-box rotors or cap? I have seen it
                                    > > happen - if something is "off", you will never get any spark...
                                    > >
                                    > > If the timing light is flashing, you SHOULD have spark, perhaps not
                                    >enough.
                                    > > Take the plug wire off the cap, put a phillips screwdriver in the
                                    >plug cap,
                                    > > and put the screwdriver shaft close to ground, and have someone
                                    >crank'er
                                    > > over. You should have a nice, blue spark. If it's yellow, it's not hot
                                    > > enough, and your coil may be weak.
                                    > >
                                    > > Have you found TDC yet?
                                    > >
                                    > > Just my $.02 worth...
                                    > >
                                    > > Roger
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Robert Sheaffer
                                    Old rotor & cap are back in, still no start. I checked the position of the distributor, it still lines up with a mark I made before, so it didn t come loose
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                                      Old rotor & cap are back in, still no start. I checked the position of
                                      the distributor, it still lines up with a mark I made before, so it
                                      didn't come loose and rotate.

                                      I'll look for wires coming loose (doubt it), and will try to find TDC.
                                      I should be able to tell TDC by looking at the timing marks on the
                                      engine flywheel? (Some genius designed this so that it's only visible
                                      if you stick your head in the fan, but when the engine is off I can do
                                      that.) I'll also check if the spark looks good. And heck, I can squirt
                                      some starter fluid into the carb, just to see if maybe a problem
                                      suddenly appeared there (I have about 1/4 tank of gas, never had a
                                      fuel supply problem before).

                                      Is there something in the engine that might "break" if the wires were
                                      connected up wrong (but it never turned over)? If some rods or valves
                                      or pistons were damaged, I'd hear loud noises? And it might start up,
                                      but run very badly?

                                      Yes, it would have saved a whole lot of trouble if I'd labelled all
                                      the wires fires, before touching the cap.

                                      Thanks, you guys are very encouraging!

                                      Robert

                                      --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, Ron Mitchell <rmitchel@f...> wrote:
                                      > Robert,
                                      > If everything was working before you changed the cap & rotor and it
                                      > doesn't work with the old cap & rotor on it now, I'd check all of
                                      the other
                                      > wires for something else you might have disconnected from the
                                      distributor,
                                      > coil or control unit. Finding TDC the way Frank suggested would go a
                                      long
                                      > way toward making sure the rotor is pointing to the right #1 wire
                                      and end
                                      > all of that confusion. Then hook a timing light to #1 and see if the
                                      timing
                                      > is close. You should be able to get it close by just cranking, with the
                                      > vacuum advance line disconnected and plugged. Has the distributor been
                                      > loosened at all?
                                      > I have a habit of using wire numbering tape (you can find at home
                                      > centers) to number wires and then draw a diagram of where they go,
                                      before
                                      > disassembling anything. I've been in a similar situation before, it's
                                      > miserable.
                                      >
                                      > Ron
                                      > 96 Coachmen
                                    • Bill Combs
                                      ... How old is the gas? Time is no friend of petrol. The starting fluid is a mandatory experiment regardless. Keep a can handy for these difficult times, its
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                                        On Dec 30, 2004, at 10:27 PM, Robert Sheaffer wrote:

                                        > (I have about 1/4 tank of gas, never had a
                                        > fuel supply problem before).

                                        How old is the gas? Time is no friend of petrol.

                                        The starting fluid is a mandatory experiment regardless. Keep a can
                                        handy for these difficult times, its use optimizes the chance that the
                                        engine will light off and run -- at least briefly -- if the ignition
                                        system is working anywhere near properly.
                                        --
                                        Regards,
                                        Bill Combs <ttursine@...>
                                        http://home.earthlink.net/~ttursine
                                        ---
                                        The older I grow the more I distrust the
                                        familiar doctrine that age brings wisdom.
                                        - H. L. Mencken



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • photobuff56
                                        ... With ... the ... in ... is ... says ... So ... Well guys I have been following this post and this probably won t be the answer but.... A long time ago I
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Dec 30, 2004
                                          --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Sheaffer" <roberto@d...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I have a 1974 Travel Queen RV which is mounted on the chassis of a
                                          > Dodge Sportsman, 360 V-8 engine, 2-barrel carb.
                                          >
                                          > It has been running fairly well, except for the poor gas mileage
                                          > (around 7.5). There is some occasional misfiring and backfiring.
                                          >
                                          > I decided to replace the spark plug wires to try to improve this.
                                          With
                                          > new spark plug wires, I didn't hear any misfiring or backfiring, I
                                          > just ran it for a few minutes.
                                          >
                                          > Then I replaced the distributor cap and rotor. Should be simple,
                                          > right? But cylinder 1 was NOT marked on the old cap, and in moving
                                          the
                                          > wires over, more than one fell off at a time.
                                          >
                                          > Not a problem, I thought. I have the shop manual, all that info is
                                          in
                                          > there. The cylinder numbers are clearly shown, and the firing order
                                          is
                                          > 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 on the V8 engines. I labelled all the wires, and
                                          > hooked them up in that order, going clockwise from #1 (the manual
                                          says
                                          > that the distributor on the 360 engine rotates clockwise). Pin 1 is
                                          > well-labelled in the new cap.
                                          >
                                          > But it doesn't start, just cranks. It used to start up pretty well.
                                          So
                                          > what's the problem? Anyone have any ideas?
                                          >
                                          > Robert
                                          Well guys I have been following this post and this probably won't be
                                          the answer but.... A long time ago I bought a vehicle that the seller
                                          told me this about. After buying it he called me to say that he had
                                          pulled the distributor out a while back and it didn't get put in the
                                          same as before ....So he rotated the wires off and back onto the cap
                                          one position. Nice of him to call. I of course pulled the strib and
                                          installed it correctly and put the wires corectly. I don't think in
                                          this case it is the prob but hey getting back the basics is what to
                                          do now. Like getting TDC and making sure that 18436572 is the order
                                          of the day. By the way if you pull the coil wire off to make sure the
                                          motor won't fire and then stick your thumb over the hole where the
                                          number one plug goes you can tap the key until it forces the thumb
                                          off of the hole hard. It will try to push it off on the exhaust
                                          stroke but you won't be able to keep it there on the compresion
                                          stroke. If you do it while watching the timing mark you should be
                                          able to see the chalk marked line on the balancer come around. Then
                                          you may have to rotate it back or advance it to the zero mark. Good
                                          Luck and Happy New Years to all!
                                          Michael K.
                                        • Frank Andthebeans
                                          Just a thought: Seems to me they used a ballast resister on the primary side of the ign coil on the 360 back then, I know I have had a couple of strange things
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Dec 31, 2004
                                            Just a thought:
                                            Seems to me they used a ballast resister on the primary side of the ign coil
                                            on the 360 back then, I know I have had a couple of strange things go wrong
                                            with them. Maybe you knocked it around a bit when you did the wires and dist
                                            cap. Perhaps you moved of broke a wire off the coil. As you said the truck
                                            ran good or not bad before you got your little hands on it.(keep your sense
                                            of humor)
                                            Recap:
                                            Re and Re # 1 plug, see where the rotor is.
                                            Compression test
                                            Turn the crank balancer and watch the rotor, balancer shouldn't move anymore
                                            then four degrees without moving the rotor.(GM specs)
                                            Check for a strong spark with a ST 125( Delco number)
                                            Make sure you have fuel in the carb.
                                            Hope this helps some how, Happy New Year
                                            Frankandthebeans


                                            >From: "photobuff56" <rooster56@...>
                                            >Reply-To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                                            >To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                                            >Subject: [classicrv] Re: Dodge Sportsman 360 Ignition Problem
                                            >Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 06:29:20 -0000
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >--- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Sheaffer" <roberto@d...>
                                            >wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > I have a 1974 Travel Queen RV which is mounted on the chassis of a
                                            > > Dodge Sportsman, 360 V-8 engine, 2-barrel carb.
                                            > >
                                            > > It has been running fairly well, except for the poor gas mileage
                                            > > (around 7.5). There is some occasional misfiring and backfiring.
                                            > >
                                            > > I decided to replace the spark plug wires to try to improve this.
                                            >With
                                            > > new spark plug wires, I didn't hear any misfiring or backfiring, I
                                            > > just ran it for a few minutes.
                                            > >
                                            > > Then I replaced the distributor cap and rotor. Should be simple,
                                            > > right? But cylinder 1 was NOT marked on the old cap, and in moving
                                            >the
                                            > > wires over, more than one fell off at a time.
                                            > >
                                            > > Not a problem, I thought. I have the shop manual, all that info is
                                            >in
                                            > > there. The cylinder numbers are clearly shown, and the firing order
                                            >is
                                            > > 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 on the V8 engines. I labelled all the wires, and
                                            > > hooked them up in that order, going clockwise from #1 (the manual
                                            >says
                                            > > that the distributor on the 360 engine rotates clockwise). Pin 1 is
                                            > > well-labelled in the new cap.
                                            > >
                                            > > But it doesn't start, just cranks. It used to start up pretty well.
                                            >So
                                            > > what's the problem? Anyone have any ideas?
                                            > >
                                            > > Robert
                                            >Well guys I have been following this post and this probably won't be
                                            >the answer but.... A long time ago I bought a vehicle that the seller
                                            >told me this about. After buying it he called me to say that he had
                                            >pulled the distributor out a while back and it didn't get put in the
                                            >same as before ....So he rotated the wires off and back onto the cap
                                            >one position. Nice of him to call. I of course pulled the strib and
                                            >installed it correctly and put the wires corectly. I don't think in
                                            >this case it is the prob but hey getting back the basics is what to
                                            >do now. Like getting TDC and making sure that 18436572 is the order
                                            >of the day. By the way if you pull the coil wire off to make sure the
                                            >motor won't fire and then stick your thumb over the hole where the
                                            >number one plug goes you can tap the key until it forces the thumb
                                            >off of the hole hard. It will try to push it off on the exhaust
                                            >stroke but you won't be able to keep it there on the compresion
                                            >stroke. If you do it while watching the timing mark you should be
                                            >able to see the chalk marked line on the balancer come around. Then
                                            >you may have to rotate it back or advance it to the zero mark. Good
                                            >Luck and Happy New Years to all!
                                            > Michael K.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Jerry Noone
                                            Hmmmm. was going to mention the ballast resistor as a possible issue. My old rig had one maounted to the firewall and I did a tune-up and then spent a long
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Dec 31, 2004
                                              Hmmmm. was going to mention the ballast resistor as a possible issue. My old rig had one maounted to the firewall and I did a tune-up and then spent a long time trying to get the beast started. A mechanically inclined neighbor saw my struggles and mentioned the ballast resistor and said that the old firewall mounted ones have a tendency to die after doing a tune-up. Something about the new plugs and etc creating a higher voltage or resistance (something like that anyway) and causing the thing to burn out. Sure enough, put in a new one and the beast started right up and ran fine. The other thing I'll mention is the coil wire - - I had one that had slid far enough back in the boot that it just didn't let the spark get to the coil. Pushed it al the way in and problem solved. Sometimes I tend to over complicate things by looking for a major problem when it's really just a simple little thing that I overlooked. Also, if you have any wires going to the coil that have crimp-on connectors,
                                              make sure the wires aren't pulled loose but still stuck in the insulation.
                                              Hope you get this solved so we can all hear the final solution that makes the ol' girl fire up and run.
                                              Jerry

                                              Frank Andthebeans <frankandthebeans@...> wrote:
                                              Just a thought:
                                              Seems to me they used a ballast resister on the primary side of the ign coil
                                              on the 360 back then, I know I have had a couple of strange things go wrong
                                              with them. Maybe you knocked it around a bit when you did the wires and dist
                                              cap. Perhaps you moved of broke a wire off the coil. As you said the truck
                                              ran good or not bad before you got your little hands on it.(keep your sense
                                              of humor)
                                              Recap:
                                              Re and Re # 1 plug, see where the rotor is.
                                              Compression test
                                              Turn the crank balancer and watch the rotor, balancer shouldn't move anymore
                                              then four degrees without moving the rotor.(GM specs)
                                              Check for a strong spark with a ST 125( Delco number)
                                              Make sure you have fuel in the carb.
                                              Hope this helps some how, Happy New Year
                                              Frankandthebeans


                                              >From: "photobuff56" <rooster56@...>
                                              >Reply-To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                                              >To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                                              >Subject: [classicrv] Re: Dodge Sportsman 360 Ignition Problem
                                              >Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 06:29:20 -0000
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >--- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Sheaffer" <roberto@d...>
                                              >wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > I have a 1974 Travel Queen RV which is mounted on the chassis of a
                                              > > Dodge Sportsman, 360 V-8 engine, 2-barrel carb.
                                              > >
                                              > > It has been running fairly well, except for the poor gas mileage
                                              > > (around 7.5). There is some occasional misfiring and backfiring.
                                              > >
                                              > > I decided to replace the spark plug wires to try to improve this.
                                              >With
                                              > > new spark plug wires, I didn't hear any misfiring or backfiring, I
                                              > > just ran it for a few minutes.
                                              > >
                                              > > Then I replaced the distributor cap and rotor. Should be simple,
                                              > > right? But cylinder 1 was NOT marked on the old cap, and in moving
                                              >the
                                              > > wires over, more than one fell off at a time.
                                              > >
                                              > > Not a problem, I thought. I have the shop manual, all that info is
                                              >in
                                              > > there. The cylinder numbers are clearly shown, and the firing order
                                              >is
                                              > > 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 on the V8 engines. I labelled all the wires, and
                                              > > hooked them up in that order, going clockwise from #1 (the manual
                                              >says
                                              > > that the distributor on the 360 engine rotates clockwise). Pin 1 is
                                              > > well-labelled in the new cap.
                                              > >
                                              > > But it doesn't start, just cranks. It used to start up pretty well.
                                              >So
                                              > > what's the problem? Anyone have any ideas?
                                              > >
                                              > > Robert
                                              >Well guys I have been following this post and this probably won't be
                                              >the answer but.... A long time ago I bought a vehicle that the seller
                                              >told me this about. After buying it he called me to say that he had
                                              >pulled the distributor out a while back and it didn't get put in the
                                              >same as before ....So he rotated the wires off and back onto the cap
                                              >one position. Nice of him to call. I of course pulled the strib and
                                              >installed it correctly and put the wires corectly. I don't think in
                                              >this case it is the prob but hey getting back the basics is what to
                                              >do now. Like getting TDC and making sure that 18436572 is the order
                                              >of the day. By the way if you pull the coil wire off to make sure the
                                              >motor won't fire and then stick your thumb over the hole where the
                                              >number one plug goes you can tap the key until it forces the thumb
                                              >off of the hole hard. It will try to push it off on the exhaust
                                              >stroke but you won't be able to keep it there on the compresion
                                              >stroke. If you do it while watching the timing mark you should be
                                              >able to see the chalk marked line on the balancer come around. Then
                                              >you may have to rotate it back or advance it to the zero mark. Good
                                              >Luck and Happy New Years to all!
                                              > Michael K.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >



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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Duane
                                              Another area of concern could be the connector at the end of your ignition bundle from your ignition switch. On my 76 Executive that connection became loose
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Dec 31, 2004
                                                Another area of concern could be the connector at the end of your
                                                ignition bundle from your ignition switch. On my '76 Executive that
                                                connection became loose and caused a hot connection which melted the
                                                main(red) power source for the ignition switch. I jumped the
                                                connector(which also contains other wires) and spliced a new wire
                                                and soldered it. I have seen other rigs that burned up because of
                                                that very problem.

                                                Dad






                                                --- In classicrv@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Sheaffer" <roberto@d...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I have a 1974 Travel Queen RV which is mounted on the chassis of a
                                                > Dodge Sportsman, 360 V-8 engine, 2-barrel carb.
                                                >
                                              • Bob Crockett
                                                ... I really doubt any mechanical breakage. How about the Hi Voltage wire from the coil to the distributor? Standard type plug & coil wires DO NOT like rough
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Dec 31, 2004
                                                  > From: "Robert Sheaffer" <roberto@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Old rotor & cap are back in, still no start. I checked the position of
                                                  > the distributor, it still lines up with a mark I made before, so it
                                                  > didn't come loose and rotate.

                                                  ...............stuff snipped..........

                                                  > Is there something in the engine that might "break" if the wires were
                                                  > connected up wrong (but it never turned over)?

                                                  I really doubt any mechanical breakage. How about the Hi Voltage wire
                                                  from the coil to the distributor? Standard type plug & coil wires DO
                                                  NOT like rough handling. I just pulled two of 'em apart when the
                                                  previous owner's robber plug "boots" slipped on my Mopar 318. I
                                                  replaced them with "hot rod" type wires from M.S.D. with molded on
                                                  boots, real WIRE cores and stronger core material.

                                                  > If some rods or valves
                                                  > or pistons were damaged, I'd hear loud noises? And it might start up,
                                                  > but run very badly?

                                                  Most probably!
                                                  >
                                                  > Yes, it would have saved a whole lot of trouble if I'd labelled all
                                                  > the wires fires, before touching the cap.

                                                  That knowledge comes from what's called "experience"
                                                  >
                                                  > Thanks, you guys are very encouraging!

                                                  Just don't get P.O.ed and _really_ break things!

                                                  You've probably almost got it done, and learded some stuff, too!

                                                  Happy new Year!

                                                  bc
                                                • Frank Andthebeans
                                                  Put a work order on it and give to someone who knows the world is round.
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Dec 31, 2004
                                                    Put a work order on it and give to someone who knows the world is round.

                                                    >From: Bob Crockett <bcrocket@...>
                                                    >Reply-To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >To: classicrv@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >Subject: [classicrv] Re: Dodge Sportsman 360 Ignition Problem
                                                    >Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2005 00:24:23 -0600
                                                    >
                                                    > > From: "Robert Sheaffer" <roberto@...> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Old rotor & cap are back in, still no start. I checked the position of
                                                    > > the distributor, it still lines up with a mark I made before, so it
                                                    > > didn't come loose and rotate.
                                                    >
                                                    >...............stuff snipped..........
                                                    >
                                                    > > Is there something in the engine that might "break" if the wires were
                                                    > > connected up wrong (but it never turned over)?
                                                    >
                                                    >I really doubt any mechanical breakage. How about the Hi Voltage wire
                                                    >from the coil to the distributor? Standard type plug & coil wires DO
                                                    >NOT like rough handling. I just pulled two of 'em apart when the
                                                    >previous owner's robber plug "boots" slipped on my Mopar 318. I
                                                    >replaced them with "hot rod" type wires from M.S.D. with molded on
                                                    >boots, real WIRE cores and stronger core material.
                                                    >
                                                    > > If some rods or valves
                                                    > > or pistons were damaged, I'd hear loud noises? And it might start up,
                                                    > > but run very badly?
                                                    >
                                                    > Most probably!
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Yes, it would have saved a whole lot of trouble if I'd labelled all
                                                    > > the wires fires, before touching the cap.
                                                    >
                                                    >That knowledge comes from what's called "experience"
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Thanks, you guys are very encouraging!
                                                    >
                                                    >Just don't get P.O.ed and _really_ break things!
                                                    >
                                                    >You've probably almost got it done, and learded some stuff, too!
                                                    >
                                                    >Happy new Year!
                                                    >
                                                    >bc
                                                    >
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