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Re: Six Armies....

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  • carlw4514
    Well maybe if you have subordinates who won t execute your orders that makes you a pessimist! When Bragg was in charge of the Wilmington defenses late `64 to
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 2, 2002
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      Well maybe if you have subordinates who won't execute your orders that
      makes you a pessimist! When Bragg was in charge of the Wilmington
      defenses late `64 to `65 DEFEATIST is about all you can conclude after
      reading CONFEDERATE GOLIATH; it is frankly hard to imagine that there
      is another side to the story that puts Bragg in any other light.
      Carl
      --- In civilwarwest@y..., "hank9174" <clarkc@m...> wrote:
      > unre,
      >
      > are you saying that Bragg was an optimist in 1861 and a realist in
      > 1864? ;)
      >
      > Again, Woodworth points out that Bragg was thwarted by Hardee and
      Polk
      > during the Tullahoma campaign, <someone> prior to Chickamauga when
      > Rosecrans dangled a division at McLemores Cove, Polk again at
      > Chickamauga and Longstreet at Chattanooga on the left at Brown's
      > Ferry and Wauhatchie.
      >
      > In all of the above cases, Bragg had opportunities to whack a goodly
      > portion of the AotC; in Longstreet's case, the whole army.
      >
      > Whatever these men's feelings toward Bragg, they pretty much defied
      > direct orders in these situations.
      >
      >
      > HankC
      >
      > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "carlw4514" <carlw4514@y...> wrote:
      > > I have concluded after finishing CONFEDERATE GOLIATH [excellent,
      > > btw] that whatever Bragg was in `61 by `65 he had completely
      > > degenerated into a defeatist that even by `64 should have had very
      > > limited responsibilities. Ummmmm, why the title "Six Armies"
      > > ?
      > > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "captaindan20022000"
      <ParrotheadDan@l...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > Hi all,
      > > >
      > > > While I don't claim to be a huge fan of Bragg, I do think at
      > > times
      > > > he takes a hit for things not his fault. I am glad to see that
      > > someone
      > > > has finally taken his side. And from the comments on this board,
      I
      > > > think it is time for another trip to Borders Books......Dan
    • lilsteve68@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/1/02 5:21:58 PM Central Standard Time, LWhite64@aol.com ... And as for Hindman he had as many happy followers as Bragg.. I havent reafd
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 3, 2002
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        In a message dated 2/1/02 5:21:58 PM Central Standard Time, LWhite64@... writes:


        In the McClemore's Cove debacle it was DH Hill and Thomas Hindman that didnt act as ordered,...Hill going as far as to lie to Bragg.

        Lee



        And as for Hindman he had as many happy followers as Bragg.. I havent reafd any good comments about him anywere...
      • FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM
        In a message dated 2/3/02 8:23:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, lilsteve68@aol.com writes:
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 3, 2002
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          In a message dated 2/3/02 8:23:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          lilsteve68@... writes:

          << And as for Hindman he had as many happy followers as Bragg.. I havent
          reafd
          any good comments about him anywere... >>

          Tsk tsk Lee,
          You know that Cleburne thought favorably about Hindman prior to the war in
          Arkansas.

          Wayne <who is feeling like a little devil tonight>
        • LWhite64@aol.com
          Steve, I would venture to say that Bragg was more popular than Hindman, but then again one person that could be counted among Hindman s friends was,
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 4, 2002
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            Steve,
                  I would venture to say that Bragg was more popular than Hindman, but then again one person that could be counted among Hindman's friends was, ironically, Cleburne.

            Lee
          • Kristin Scherrer
            Could somone explain Hindman in a little further detail? Kristin LWhite64@aol.com wrote: Steve, I would venture to say that Bragg was more popular than
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 4, 2002
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              Could somone explain Hindman in a little further detail?

              Kristin

                LWhite64@... wrote:

              Steve,
                    I would venture to say that Bragg was more popular than Hindman, but then again one person that could be counted among Hindman's friends was, ironically, Cleburne.

              Lee


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            • dmsmith001
              ... snips ... I simply wish that Woodworth would have tried to gather an understanding of how and why these subordinates didn t work well with Bragg. You ve
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 12, 2002
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                --- In civilwarwest@y..., "hank9174" <clarkc@m...> wrote:

                snips

                > Again, Woodworth points out that Bragg was thwarted by Hardee and
                > Polk during the Tullahoma campaign, <someone> prior to Chickamauga
                > when Rosecrans dangled a division at McLemores Cove, Polk again at
                > Chickamauga and Longstreet at Chattanooga on the left at Brown's
                > Ferry and Wauhatchie.

                I simply wish that Woodworth would have tried to gather an
                understanding of how and why these subordinates didn't work well with
                Bragg.

                You've worked with people like Bragg - it's always someone else's
                fault - never his.

                Tis one of the easy outs for looking at a particular campaign, that
                one can always justify anything in the short term.
                >
                > In all of the above cases, Bragg had opportunities to whack a
                > goodly portion of the AotC; in Longstreet's case, the whole army.

                Longstreet a chance to wreck the whole army, and thwarted Bragg's
                plans? Where and when?
                >
                > Whatever these men's feelings toward Bragg, they pretty much defied
                > direct orders in these situations.
                >
                Let's deal with Longstreet for a moment. What orders did he defy?

                Dave

                Dave Smith
                Villa Hills, Ky
              • hank9174
                Dave, Here s two points that I can recall ol Pete defying Bragg s orders: 1. Longstreet was insistent on pulling troops back from the river. Even Law, the
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 13, 2002
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                  Dave,

                  Here's two points that I can recall 'ol Pete defying Bragg's orders:

                  1. Longstreet was insistent on pulling troops back from the river.
                  Even Law, the brigade CO at the point of contact, returning from
                  furlough, was appalled to find his men withdrawn. After USA troops
                  came ashore at Brown's Ferry, Bragg ordered Longstreet to use his
                  entire force to retake the landing. Longstreet used one brigade in
                  what became the battle of Wauhatchie.

                  2. For whatever reason, Longstreet felt that the USA push from
                  Bridgeport was going southeast into the mountains(?). Bragg allowed
                  Longstreet to sidle a couple of brigades south along the mountain to
                  meet this 'threat'. Bragg also ordered a reconnaisance in force
                  towards Bridgeport to see what Hooker really was up to. Longstreet did
                  not reconn. The first he knew of Hooker's advance was when Geary
                  marched unmolested across his front into a strong position.

                  Should Bragg have allowed Longstreet to indulge in his fantasy of
                  H00ker's whereabouts? Probably not. Should Longstreet have followed
                  orders? Probably so...


                  HankC


                  --- In civilwarwest@y..., "dmsmith001" <dmsmith001@y...> wrote:
                  > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "hank9174" <clarkc@m...> wrote:
                  >
                  > snips
                  >
                  > > Again, Woodworth points out that Bragg was thwarted by Hardee and
                  > > Polk during the Tullahoma campaign, <someone> prior to Chickamauga
                  > > when Rosecrans dangled a division at McLemores Cove, Polk again at
                  > > Chickamauga and Longstreet at Chattanooga on the left at Brown's
                  > > Ferry and Wauhatchie.
                  >
                  > I simply wish that Woodworth would have tried to gather an
                  > understanding of how and why these subordinates didn't work well
                  with
                  > Bragg.
                  >
                  > You've worked with people like Bragg - it's always someone else's
                  > fault - never his.
                  >
                  > Tis one of the easy outs for looking at a particular campaign, that
                  > one can always justify anything in the short term.
                  > >
                  > > In all of the above cases, Bragg had opportunities to whack a
                  > > goodly portion of the AotC; in Longstreet's case, the whole army.
                  >
                  > Longstreet a chance to wreck the whole army, and thwarted Bragg's
                  > plans? Where and when?
                  > >
                  > > Whatever these men's feelings toward Bragg, they pretty much
                  defied
                  > > direct orders in these situations.
                  > >
                  > Let's deal with Longstreet for a moment. What orders did he defy?
                  >
                  > Dave
                  >
                  > Dave Smith
                  > Villa Hills, Ky
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