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Six Armies....

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  • captaindan20022000
    Hi all, While I don t claim to be a huge fan of Bragg, I do think at times he takes a hit for things not his fault. I am glad to see that someone has finally
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 1, 2002
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      Hi all,

      While I don't claim to be a huge fan of Bragg, I do think at times
      he takes a hit for things not his fault. I am glad to see that someone
      has finally taken his side. And from the comments on this board, I
      think it is time for another trip to Borders Books......Dan
    • carlw4514
      I have concluded after finishing CONFEDERATE GOLIATH [excellent, btw] that whatever Bragg was in `61 by `65 he had completely degenerated into a defeatist that
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 1, 2002
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        I have concluded after finishing CONFEDERATE GOLIATH [excellent,
        btw] that whatever Bragg was in `61 by `65 he had completely
        degenerated into a defeatist that even by `64 should have had very
        limited responsibilities. Ummmmm, why the title "Six Armies"
        ?
        --- In civilwarwest@y..., "captaindan20022000" <ParrotheadDan@l...>
        wrote:
        > Hi all,
        >
        > While I don't claim to be a huge fan of Bragg, I do think at
        times
        > he takes a hit for things not his fault. I am glad to see that
        someone
        > has finally taken his side. And from the comments on this board, I
        > think it is time for another trip to Borders Books......Dan
      • josepharose
        ... I would guess: the Armies of the Ohio, the Tennessee, the Cumberland, the Potomac, Northern Virginia, and Tennessee. Joseph
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 1, 2002
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          > Ummmmm, why the title "Six Armies"

          I would guess: the Armies of the Ohio, the Tennessee, the Cumberland,
          the Potomac, Northern Virginia, and Tennessee.

          Joseph
        • hank9174
          unre, are you saying that Bragg was an optimist in 1861 and a realist in 1864? ;) Again, Woodworth points out that Bragg was thwarted by Hardee and Polk during
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 1, 2002
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            unre,

            are you saying that Bragg was an optimist in 1861 and a realist in
            1864? ;)

            Again, Woodworth points out that Bragg was thwarted by Hardee and Polk
            during the Tullahoma campaign, <someone> prior to Chickamauga when
            Rosecrans dangled a division at McLemores Cove, Polk again at
            Chickamauga and Longstreet at Chattanooga on the left at Brown's
            Ferry and Wauhatchie.

            In all of the above cases, Bragg had opportunities to whack a goodly
            portion of the AotC; in Longstreet's case, the whole army.

            Whatever these men's feelings toward Bragg, they pretty much defied
            direct orders in these situations.


            HankC

            --- In civilwarwest@y..., "carlw4514" <carlw4514@y...> wrote:
            > I have concluded after finishing CONFEDERATE GOLIATH [excellent,
            > btw] that whatever Bragg was in `61 by `65 he had completely
            > degenerated into a defeatist that even by `64 should have had very
            > limited responsibilities. Ummmmm, why the title "Six Armies"
            > ?
            > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "captaindan20022000" <ParrotheadDan@l...>
            > wrote:
            > > Hi all,
            > >
            > > While I don't claim to be a huge fan of Bragg, I do think at
            > times
            > > he takes a hit for things not his fault. I am glad to see that
            > someone
            > > has finally taken his side. And from the comments on this board, I
            > > think it is time for another trip to Borders Books......Dan
          • hartshje
            ... Weren t some of Bragg s reinforcements from the Army of Mississippi? Doesn t that make Seven ? Or were these just AoT troops being returned? Joe H.
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 1, 2002
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              --- In civilwarwest@y..., "josepharose" <josepharose@y...> wrote:
              > > Ummmmm, why the title "Six Armies"
              >
              > I would guess: the Armies of the Ohio, the Tennessee, the
              > Cumberland, the Potomac, Northern Virginia, and Tennessee.
              >
              > Joseph

              Weren't some of Bragg's reinforcements from the Army of Mississippi?
              Doesn't that make "Seven"? Or were these just AoT troops being
              returned?

              Joe H.
            • LWhite64@aol.com
              In the McClemore s Cove debacle it was DH Hill and Thomas Hindman that didnt act as ordered,...Hill going as far as to lie to Bragg. Lee
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 1, 2002
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                In the McClemore's Cove debacle it was DH Hill and Thomas Hindman that didnt act as ordered,...Hill going as far as to lie to Bragg.

                Lee
              • LWhite64@aol.com
                Joe H. has a good point, Breckinridge had been on loan, but Wilson and Gist s Brigades had been part of the Charleston Garrison sent to the Army of Relief. Lee
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 1, 2002
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                  Joe H. has a good point, Breckinridge had been on loan, but Wilson and Gist's Brigades had been part of the Charleston Garrison sent to the Army of Relief.  

                  Lee
                • carlw4514
                  Well maybe if you have subordinates who won t execute your orders that makes you a pessimist! When Bragg was in charge of the Wilmington defenses late `64 to
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 2, 2002
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                    Well maybe if you have subordinates who won't execute your orders that
                    makes you a pessimist! When Bragg was in charge of the Wilmington
                    defenses late `64 to `65 DEFEATIST is about all you can conclude after
                    reading CONFEDERATE GOLIATH; it is frankly hard to imagine that there
                    is another side to the story that puts Bragg in any other light.
                    Carl
                    --- In civilwarwest@y..., "hank9174" <clarkc@m...> wrote:
                    > unre,
                    >
                    > are you saying that Bragg was an optimist in 1861 and a realist in
                    > 1864? ;)
                    >
                    > Again, Woodworth points out that Bragg was thwarted by Hardee and
                    Polk
                    > during the Tullahoma campaign, <someone> prior to Chickamauga when
                    > Rosecrans dangled a division at McLemores Cove, Polk again at
                    > Chickamauga and Longstreet at Chattanooga on the left at Brown's
                    > Ferry and Wauhatchie.
                    >
                    > In all of the above cases, Bragg had opportunities to whack a goodly
                    > portion of the AotC; in Longstreet's case, the whole army.
                    >
                    > Whatever these men's feelings toward Bragg, they pretty much defied
                    > direct orders in these situations.
                    >
                    >
                    > HankC
                    >
                    > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "carlw4514" <carlw4514@y...> wrote:
                    > > I have concluded after finishing CONFEDERATE GOLIATH [excellent,
                    > > btw] that whatever Bragg was in `61 by `65 he had completely
                    > > degenerated into a defeatist that even by `64 should have had very
                    > > limited responsibilities. Ummmmm, why the title "Six Armies"
                    > > ?
                    > > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "captaindan20022000"
                    <ParrotheadDan@l...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > Hi all,
                    > > >
                    > > > While I don't claim to be a huge fan of Bragg, I do think at
                    > > times
                    > > > he takes a hit for things not his fault. I am glad to see that
                    > > someone
                    > > > has finally taken his side. And from the comments on this board,
                    I
                    > > > think it is time for another trip to Borders Books......Dan
                  • lilsteve68@aol.com
                    In a message dated 2/1/02 5:21:58 PM Central Standard Time, LWhite64@aol.com ... And as for Hindman he had as many happy followers as Bragg.. I havent reafd
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 3, 2002
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                      In a message dated 2/1/02 5:21:58 PM Central Standard Time, LWhite64@... writes:


                      In the McClemore's Cove debacle it was DH Hill and Thomas Hindman that didnt act as ordered,...Hill going as far as to lie to Bragg.

                      Lee



                      And as for Hindman he had as many happy followers as Bragg.. I havent reafd any good comments about him anywere...
                    • FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM
                      In a message dated 2/3/02 8:23:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, lilsteve68@aol.com writes:
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 3, 2002
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                        In a message dated 2/3/02 8:23:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                        lilsteve68@... writes:

                        << And as for Hindman he had as many happy followers as Bragg.. I havent
                        reafd
                        any good comments about him anywere... >>

                        Tsk tsk Lee,
                        You know that Cleburne thought favorably about Hindman prior to the war in
                        Arkansas.

                        Wayne <who is feeling like a little devil tonight>
                      • LWhite64@aol.com
                        Steve, I would venture to say that Bragg was more popular than Hindman, but then again one person that could be counted among Hindman s friends was,
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 4, 2002
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                          Steve,
                                I would venture to say that Bragg was more popular than Hindman, but then again one person that could be counted among Hindman's friends was, ironically, Cleburne.

                          Lee
                        • Kristin Scherrer
                          Could somone explain Hindman in a little further detail? Kristin LWhite64@aol.com wrote: Steve, I would venture to say that Bragg was more popular than
                          Message 12 of 14 , Feb 4, 2002
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                            Could somone explain Hindman in a little further detail?

                            Kristin

                              LWhite64@... wrote:

                            Steve,
                                  I would venture to say that Bragg was more popular than Hindman, but then again one person that could be counted among Hindman's friends was, ironically, Cleburne.

                            Lee


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                          • dmsmith001
                            ... snips ... I simply wish that Woodworth would have tried to gather an understanding of how and why these subordinates didn t work well with Bragg. You ve
                            Message 13 of 14 , Feb 12, 2002
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                              --- In civilwarwest@y..., "hank9174" <clarkc@m...> wrote:

                              snips

                              > Again, Woodworth points out that Bragg was thwarted by Hardee and
                              > Polk during the Tullahoma campaign, <someone> prior to Chickamauga
                              > when Rosecrans dangled a division at McLemores Cove, Polk again at
                              > Chickamauga and Longstreet at Chattanooga on the left at Brown's
                              > Ferry and Wauhatchie.

                              I simply wish that Woodworth would have tried to gather an
                              understanding of how and why these subordinates didn't work well with
                              Bragg.

                              You've worked with people like Bragg - it's always someone else's
                              fault - never his.

                              Tis one of the easy outs for looking at a particular campaign, that
                              one can always justify anything in the short term.
                              >
                              > In all of the above cases, Bragg had opportunities to whack a
                              > goodly portion of the AotC; in Longstreet's case, the whole army.

                              Longstreet a chance to wreck the whole army, and thwarted Bragg's
                              plans? Where and when?
                              >
                              > Whatever these men's feelings toward Bragg, they pretty much defied
                              > direct orders in these situations.
                              >
                              Let's deal with Longstreet for a moment. What orders did he defy?

                              Dave

                              Dave Smith
                              Villa Hills, Ky
                            • hank9174
                              Dave, Here s two points that I can recall ol Pete defying Bragg s orders: 1. Longstreet was insistent on pulling troops back from the river. Even Law, the
                              Message 14 of 14 , Feb 13, 2002
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                                Dave,

                                Here's two points that I can recall 'ol Pete defying Bragg's orders:

                                1. Longstreet was insistent on pulling troops back from the river.
                                Even Law, the brigade CO at the point of contact, returning from
                                furlough, was appalled to find his men withdrawn. After USA troops
                                came ashore at Brown's Ferry, Bragg ordered Longstreet to use his
                                entire force to retake the landing. Longstreet used one brigade in
                                what became the battle of Wauhatchie.

                                2. For whatever reason, Longstreet felt that the USA push from
                                Bridgeport was going southeast into the mountains(?). Bragg allowed
                                Longstreet to sidle a couple of brigades south along the mountain to
                                meet this 'threat'. Bragg also ordered a reconnaisance in force
                                towards Bridgeport to see what Hooker really was up to. Longstreet did
                                not reconn. The first he knew of Hooker's advance was when Geary
                                marched unmolested across his front into a strong position.

                                Should Bragg have allowed Longstreet to indulge in his fantasy of
                                H00ker's whereabouts? Probably not. Should Longstreet have followed
                                orders? Probably so...


                                HankC


                                --- In civilwarwest@y..., "dmsmith001" <dmsmith001@y...> wrote:
                                > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "hank9174" <clarkc@m...> wrote:
                                >
                                > snips
                                >
                                > > Again, Woodworth points out that Bragg was thwarted by Hardee and
                                > > Polk during the Tullahoma campaign, <someone> prior to Chickamauga
                                > > when Rosecrans dangled a division at McLemores Cove, Polk again at
                                > > Chickamauga and Longstreet at Chattanooga on the left at Brown's
                                > > Ferry and Wauhatchie.
                                >
                                > I simply wish that Woodworth would have tried to gather an
                                > understanding of how and why these subordinates didn't work well
                                with
                                > Bragg.
                                >
                                > You've worked with people like Bragg - it's always someone else's
                                > fault - never his.
                                >
                                > Tis one of the easy outs for looking at a particular campaign, that
                                > one can always justify anything in the short term.
                                > >
                                > > In all of the above cases, Bragg had opportunities to whack a
                                > > goodly portion of the AotC; in Longstreet's case, the whole army.
                                >
                                > Longstreet a chance to wreck the whole army, and thwarted Bragg's
                                > plans? Where and when?
                                > >
                                > > Whatever these men's feelings toward Bragg, they pretty much
                                defied
                                > > direct orders in these situations.
                                > >
                                > Let's deal with Longstreet for a moment. What orders did he defy?
                                >
                                > Dave
                                >
                                > Dave Smith
                                > Villa Hills, Ky
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