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Book reviews: more for the groaning bookshelves

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  • carlw4514
    Or the wishlist , anyway. My newspaper devouring spouse has spotted: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59669-2002Jan3.html the reviewer gives the
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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      Or the wishlist , anyway. My newspaper devouring spouse has spotted:

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59669-2002Jan3.html

      the reviewer gives the new Perryville book by Noe a thumbs-up.
      In GLORIUS FOURTH book, which he blasts, he is contemptuous of the assertion that Grant burned Jackson Mississippi to the ground
      in May 1863. I am not exactly sure which part of that is incorrect, although Sherman burning it to the ground sounds right. Anybody
      know?
    • carlw4514
      ... xx xx xx xx xx xxx xxx xxx http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59669-2002Jan3.html
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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        --- In civilwarwest@y..., "carlw4514" <carlw4514@y...> wrote:
        > Or the wishlist , anyway. My newspaper devouring spouse has spotted:
        >
        > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59669-2002Jan3.html
        >
        > the reviewer gives the new Perryville book by Noe a thumbs-up.
        > In GLORIUS FOURTH book, which he blasts, he is contemptuous of the assertion that Grant burned Jackson Mississippi to the ground
        > in May 1863. I am not exactly sure which part of that is incorrect, although Sherman burning it to the ground sounds right. Anybody
        > know?
        xx
        xx
        xx
        xx
        xx
        xxx
        xxx
        xxx
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59669-2002Jan3.html
      • Michael Mason
        Sherman made a few trips to Jackson during the war, probably a few to many for the citizens! The Baron On 06-Jan-02, carlw4514 wrote:
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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          Sherman made a few trips to Jackson during the war,
          probably a few to many for the citizens! The Baron

          On 06-Jan-02, carlw4514 <carlw4514@...> wrote:
          <html><body>


          <tt>
          Or the wishlist , anyway. My newspaper devouring spouse has spotted:<BR>
          <BR>
          <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59669-2002Jan3.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59669-2002Jan3.html</a><BR>
          <BR>
          the reviewer gives the new Perryville book by Noe a thumbs-up. <BR>
          In GLORIUS FOURTH book, which he blasts, he is contemptuous of the assertion that Grant burned Jackson Mississippi to the ground <BR>
          in May 1863. I am not exactly sure which part of that is incorrect, although Sherman burning it to the ground sounds right. Anybody <BR>
          know? <BR>
          <BR>
          <BR>
          </tt>

          <br>

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        • FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM
          In a message dated 1/6/02 1:20:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo.com writes:
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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            In a message dated 1/6/02 1:20:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            carlw4514@... writes:

            << he is contemptuous of the assertion that Grant burned Jackson Mississippi
            to the ground
            in May 1863. I am not exactly sure which part of that is incorrect, although
            Sherman burning it to the ground sounds right. Anybody
            know? >>

            Why is that wherever or whenever there was a fire back then (perhaps even a
            campfire) that everyone suspects Sherman. Yee Gods, how long does the
            stereotyping and myths have to go on.

            Wayne
          • Aurelie1999@aol.com
            In a message dated 1/6/02 4:36:44 PM Central Standard Time, FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM writes:
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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              In a message dated 1/6/02 4:36:44 PM Central Standard Time, FLYNSWEDE@...
              writes:

              << Why is that wherever or whenever there was a fire back then (perhaps even
              a
              campfire) that everyone suspects Sherman. Yee Gods, how long does the
              stereotyping and myths have to go on.
              >>

              Forever! In some thesaurus' under "arson" synonyms are Sherman, Cump,
              Tecumseh, WTS and Bummers. Grant himself fully admitted to Jackson. "Before
              leaving Jackson, Joe Johnston had given orders for the destruction of stores.
              I found a cotton-mill at work making goods for the Confederate army with the
              trade-mark C.S.A. on them. Here was an active mill providing goods for the
              enemy. I went in with Sherman, and when I saw what was going on, I said, 'I
              guess we shall have to burn this.' Before setting fire to the building, we
              gave the operatives, mostly girls, bundles of the made cloth, thinking it
              might be useful for domestic purposes. But we subsequently heard that the
              Confederates took this as government property, so that we might as well have
              burned this too. . . I told the inhabitants of Mississippi, when I was moving
              to Holly Springs, that if they allowed their sons and brothers to remain
              within my lines and receive protection, and then during the night sneak out
              and burn my bridges and shoot officers, I would desolate their country for
              forty miles around every place where it occurred. This put an end to bridge
              burning. This was necessary because I could not fight two armies -- an army
              in front under military conditions and a secret army hid behind every bush
              and fence." Conversations pgs 308-309
              Maybe Cump was just an eager and well tutored torch pupil and not the
              originator after all.
            • FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM
              In a message dated 1/6/02 5:57:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, Aurelie1999@aol.com writes:
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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                In a message dated 1/6/02 5:57:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                Aurelie1999@... writes:

                << Forever! In some thesaurus' under "arson" synonyms are Sherman, Cump,
                Tecumseh, WTS and Bummers. >>

                gGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
              • Robert Taubman
                Perhaps we could add Wade Hampton, but, I guess that wouldn t be within the western theatre. Oh well... ... From: To:
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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                  Perhaps we could add Wade Hampton, but, I guess that wouldn't be within the
                  western theatre.
                  Oh well...
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <FLYNSWEDE@...>
                  To: <civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 8:06 PM
                  Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Book reviews: more for the groaning bookshelves


                  | In a message dated 1/6/02 5:57:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                  | Aurelie1999@... writes:
                  |
                  | << Forever! In some thesaurus' under "arson" synonyms are Sherman, Cump,
                  | Tecumseh, WTS and Bummers. >>
                  |
                  | gGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
                  |
                  |
                  |
                  |
                  | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  |
                  |
                • Michael Mason
                  Revelation 14 verse 18 ??? The Baron On 6-Jan-02, FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM wrote: In a message dated 1/6/02 5:57:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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                    Revelation 14 verse 18 ??? The Baron

                    On 6-Jan-02, FLYNSWEDE@... wrote:
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                    <tt>
                    In a message dated 1/6/02 5:57:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
                    Aurelie1999@... writes:<BR>
                    <BR>
                    << Forever!� In some thesaurus' under "arson" synonyms are Sherman, Cump, <BR>
                    Tecumseh, WTS and Bummers.�� >><BR>
                    <BR>
                    gGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR<BR>
                    </tt>

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                  • Michael Mason
                    Ya got to admit fire seemed to follow Sherman like a puppy. the incarnation of Ben Quick perhaps? The Baron On 6-Jan-02, FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM wrote:
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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                      Ya got to admit fire seemed to follow Sherman like a puppy.
                      the incarnation of "Ben Quick" perhaps?
                      The Baron

                      On 6-Jan-02, FLYNSWEDE@... wrote:
                      <html><body>


                      <tt>
                      In a message dated 1/6/02 1:20:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
                      carlw4514@... writes:<BR>
                      <BR>
                      << he is contemptuous of the assertion that Grant burned Jackson Mississippi <BR>
                      to the ground <BR>
                      in May 1863. I am not exactly sure which part of that is incorrect, although <BR>
                      Sherman burning it to the ground sounds right. Anybody <BR>
                      know?� >><BR>
                      <BR>
                      Why is that wherever or whenever there was a fire back then (perhaps even a <BR>
                      campfire) that everyone suspects Sherman.� Yee Gods, how long does the <BR>
                      stereotyping and myths have to go on.<BR>
                      <BR>
                      Wayne<BR>
                      </tt>



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                    • carlw4514
                      Admittedly, this is a form of laziness, but I didn t want to look up what happened at Jackson cuz I know someone here knows. (hey, you can t just go to
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 7, 2002
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                        Admittedly, this is a form of laziness, but I didn't want to look up
                        what happened at Jackson 'cuz I know someone here knows. (hey, you
                        can't just go to www2.cr.nps.gov/ anymore! ) Do I take it from the
                        below that Jackson was not "burned to the ground" - just things like
                        the cotton-mill ?
                        Carl *feeling quite chastised after being growled at by Mr. Bengston*
                        --- In civilwarwest@y..., Aurelie1999@a... wrote:
                        >[...]Grant himself fully admitted to Jackson.
                        "Before
                        > leaving Jackson, Joe Johnston had given orders for the destruction
                        of stores.
                        > I found a cotton-mill at work making goods for the Confederate army
                        with the
                        > trade-mark C.S.A. on them. Here was an active mill providing goods
                        for the
                        > enemy. I went in with Sherman, and when I saw what was going on, I
                        said, 'I guess we shall have to burn this.' [...]
                      • Aurelie1999@aol.com
                        When you play with matches, things burn. After the cotton mill, Grant s men torched an arsenal, an iron foundry, a carriage factory containing caissons and
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 7, 2002
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                          When you play with matches, things burn. After the cotton mill, Grant's men
                          torched "an arsenal, an iron foundry, a carriage factory containing caissons
                          and limbers for artillery and sundry other businesses." [Simpson pg 198].
                          Naturally, one little flame ignites a blaze in both buildings and human
                          hearts. A few drinking soldiers carried on where Grant left off. Even
                          Sherman tried to stop it, by proclaiming it would, "bring disgrace on our
                          cause." In the end quite a bit had been destroyed, "Chimneyville," the
                          soldiers called it as they looked back on their work while marching to
                          Vicksburg. Sherman then reported to Grant, "Jackson cannot again become a
                          place for the assemblage of men and material with which to threaten the
                          Mississippi river." [Grant Moves South, Catton pg 483] When the rebs
                          returned, they didn't find much accept good propaganda fuel. It is
                          interesting that under "Jackson MS" in the index of Catton's book, the
                          subtitle is "Sherman's destruction at . . ." Seems like if there is a match,
                          it is Cump's fault, even if Grant lit the first one and left orders to
                          "damage the enemy as much as possible."
                        • dmsmith001
                          ... In general, the Federal forces had orders to destroy anything that had a military capability. When Grant entered that cotton mill, the good ladies of
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 8, 2002
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                            --- In civilwarwest@y..., "carlw4514" <carlw4514@y...> wrote:
                            > Admittedly, this is a form of laziness, but I didn't want to look
                            > up what happened at Jackson 'cuz I know someone here knows. (hey,
                            > you can't just go to www2.cr.nps.gov/ anymore! ) Do I take it from
                            > the below that Jackson was not "burned to the ground" - just
                            > things like the cotton-mill ?

                            In general, the Federal forces had orders to destroy anything that
                            had a military capability. When Grant entered that cotton mill, the
                            good ladies of Jackson were busy turning out CSA uniforms.

                            Like most instances of this type, there were occasions where civilian
                            homes were burned in addition.

                            Fremantle, who entered Jackson as Grant was leaving, stayed at a
                            local doctor's place that was evidently spared. He does not talk of
                            widescale desolation.

                            Burned to the ground? No. Lots of smoke and fire? Yes.

                            > Carl *feeling quite chastised after being growled at by Mr.
                            > Bengston*

                            Well, it is sort of odd the way smoke and fire seemed to follow
                            Sherman around, isn't it? :-)

                            Dave

                            Dave Smith
                            Villa Hills, KY
                          • theme_music
                            Sherman paid a number of visits to Jackson during the war. And being how he d never been admonished about putting out his camp fire by Smokey the bear..... In
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 8, 2002
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                              Sherman paid a number of visits to Jackson during the war. And being
                              how he'd never been admonished about putting out his camp fire by
                              Smokey the bear.....

                              In mid-May forces under Sherman and MacPherson pushed aside a few
                              confederate brigades and entered the city during Grant's Vicksburg
                              campaign. The federals undertook a destruction of military stores,
                              railroads, bridges etc. but moved off to fight at Champion's Hill and
                              Vicksburg before doing a real thorough job.

                              One issue I have seen in a few Union diaries is that some of the
                              Union troops captured at Shiloh marched through Jackson as prisoners,
                              were mighty upset at the treatment they recieved, and wished to
                              settle a few scores upon their return.

                              Sherman returned to Jackson in July 1863, after the fall of
                              Vicksburg, to chase off CS forces under Joe Johnston, and to finish
                              any "necessary" destruction of Jackson left over from the rather
                              hasty effort of 2 months prior. Cump also passed through Jackson
                              going to and from Meridian in the raid of Jan-Feb 1864.

                              "Chimneyville" some called it, and after four visits by WT Sherman,
                              likely with good cause.

                              I think you have to be a little careful though, with "credit" for
                              destruction. Retreating armies set fires to destroy left behind
                              items, often times inmates were released, law enforcement ceased
                              until the advancing army arrived, looting by local low lifes or
                              runaway slaves might occur etc. etc. No doubt Sherman's troops did a
                              lot of damage, but he seems to get "credit" for every burnt out
                              structure south of the Mason&Dixon line from 1850-2002.

                              Eric








                              --- In civilwarwest@y..., "carlw4514" <carlw4514@y...> wrote:
                              > Admittedly, this is a form of laziness, but I didn't want to look
                              up
                              > what happened at Jackson 'cuz I know someone here knows. (hey, you
                              > can't just go to www2.cr.nps.gov/ anymore! ) Do I take it from the
                              > below that Jackson was not "burned to the ground" - just things
                              like
                              > the cotton-mill ?
                              > Carl *feeling quite chastised after being growled at by Mr.
                              Bengston*
                            • FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM
                              In a message dated 1/9/02 1:18:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, theme_music@yahoo.com writes:
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jan 9, 2002
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                                In a message dated 1/9/02 1:18:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                                theme_music@... writes:

                                << No doubt Sherman's troops did a
                                lot of damage, but he seems to get "credit" for every burnt out
                                structure south of the Mason&Dixon line from 1850-2002. >>

                                Some even say that it was Sherman disguised as Mrs O'Leary's cow that started
                                the great Chicago fire. <g>

                                Wayne
                              • Michael Mason
                                Wasn t Sherman sitting next to Milo Minderbinder in a B-25,during the fire bombing of Dresden/ The Baron On 9-Jan-02, FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM wrote:
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jan 9, 2002
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                                  Wasn't Sherman sitting next to "Milo Minderbinder" in a
                                  B-25,during the fire bombing of Dresden/
                                  The Baron


                                  On 9-Jan-02, FLYNSWEDE@... wrote:
                                  <html><body>


                                  <tt>
                                  In a message dated 1/9/02 1:18:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
                                  theme_music@... writes:<BR>
                                  <BR>
                                  << No doubt Sherman's troops did a <BR>
                                  lot of damage, but he seems to get "credit" for every burnt out <BR>
                                  structure south of the Mason&Dixon line from 1850-2002. >><BR>
                                  <BR>
                                  Some even say that it was Sherman disguised as Mrs O'Leary's cow that started <BR>
                                  the great Chicago fire.���� <g><BR>
                                  <BR>
                                  Wayne<BR>
                                  </tt>

                                  <br>

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