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Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Just how big a threat was French or British intervention a...

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  • Robert Taubman
    Anytime. ... From: carlw4514 To: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 9:33 AM Subject: [civilwarwest] Re:
    Message 1 of 31 , Dec 31, 2001
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      Anytime.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "carlw4514" <carlw4514@...>
      To: <civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 9:33 AM
      Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Just how big a threat was French or British
      intervention a...


      | Since we are a bit OT, I'll let you have the last word. Duality it is.
      | Thanks for the various URLs.
      | Carl
      | --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Robert Taubman" <rtaubman@h...> wrote:
      | > "This bilingual country" happens to be my country, Canada. When you
      | refer to
      | > divisions within Canada, what are you referring to? That people
      | have
      | > differences of opinion? You use the term schizophrenic, a term that
      | I suppose
      | > you wish to mean something other than Canada's duality, a term that
      | I believe is
      | > more appropriate. The correct description would be that Canada
      | recognizes its
      | > two founding nations, England and France.
      | >
      | > "Split loyalties"; loyalty to whom? The North or the South? Which
      | side were we
      | > supposed to support? Why were we to be "loyal" to any part of the
      | United
      | > States? Throughout the Civil War, there was always a perceived
      | threat of
      | > invasion by the U.S., and after the Civil War the Fenian Raids,
      | based in the
      | > United States and thought to be supported by the U.S. government,
      | were an
      | > attempt by Irish insurgents to overthrow the Canadian Government.
      | >
      | > How did the Canadian Government "provide cover" for CSA operatives?
      | Was there
      | > open support of these actions by the Canadian Government? The fact
      | that they
      | > were able to operate in the City of New York without detection must
      | indicate,
      | > using your logic, that New York was complicit in this affair.
      | Fortunately, the
      | > methods used by the CSA operatives didn't produce the desired
      | results.
      | >
      | > My memory of the St. Albans Raid is not as good as it once was,
      | however, you are
      | > right that the CSA raiders were not held in jail in Canada. I
      | believe the
      | > magistrate ruled he had no jurisdiction because of a problem with
      | the
      | > extradition treaties between Canada and the U.S. at that time.
      | >
      | > As for the prisoner of war camp, the following may be of some
      | assistance to you;
      | > http://www.rbhayes.org/mssfind/lh_coll/johnsonsis.htm
      | >
      | > And there are other incidents. The Chesapeake affair where the
      | captured ship
      | > was taken to Halifax by CSA operatives.
      | >
      | > Relations between Canada and the United States and the CSA is a very
      | interesting
      | > part of the American Civil War that I'm afraid not too many
      | Canadians are even
      | > aware of.
      | >
      | > I hope everyone posting/lurking on Civil War in the West has a very
      | safe and
      | > Happy New Year.
      | >
      | >
      | > Bob Taubman
      | >
      | > ----- Original Message -----
      | > From: "carlw4514" <carlw4514@y...>
      | > To: <civilwarwest@y...>
      | > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 9:54 PM
      | > Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Just how big a threat was French or
      | British
      | > intervention a...
      | >
      | >
      | > | Well, it's all very interesting. I am given to understand that
      | this
      | > | use of " Schizophrenic " is not clinically accurate, but it is
      | common
      | > | to use it with the meaning I intended here - surely you agree that
      | > | this bilingual country has its divisions? At the time of the ACW,
      | it
      | > | seems that the British portion had split loyalties, something you
      | are
      | > | kindly informing us on and about which I was unaware.
      | > | I believe there were three significant actions / raids originating
      | in
      | > | Canada. The October St. Albans raid you mention was preceded by
      | the
      | > | plan to firebomb 24 hotels in New York City in the previous month,
      | > | September 1864. (At least 14 hotels in fact were hit, a shocking
      | event
      | > | in view of modern times- fortunately, the Rebel saboteurs were
      | inept)
      | > | Both events were notable in the way in which Canada provided cover
      | for
      | > | the raiders; in both cases not only were the actions allowed to
      | > | originate there, but the perpetrators returned to Canada both
      | times
      | > | and were protected. By the time of the St. Albans raid, the
      | > | Southerners were arrested in Canada, but a British judge
      | determined
      | > | that their bank-robbing spree was a legitimate action of a
      | Belligerent
      | > | and they were set free. Certainly no Rebs were turned over to U.S.
      | > | officials in either case.
      | > | I *think* a third event originated somewhere in Canada and took
      | place
      | > | on one of the Great Lakes, a boat was (?) commandeered and the
      | plan
      | > | was to use it to free POWs from a prison camp and get them to
      | Canada.
      | > | Somewhere along the way this plan was aborted. Unfortunately, I
      | can't
      | > | find a freaking thing on this - so I could be wrong; perhaps the
      | plan
      | > | was aborted before the boat was commandeered.
      | > | Carl
      | > |
      | > | --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Robert Taubman" <rtaubman@h...> wrote:
      | > | [...]
      | > | > Schizophrenic? More than you thought? Why did you think they
      | were
      | > | > schizophrenic in the first place, or is this just another
      | > | meaningless comment?
      | > | > What two raids? I will give you St. Albans, but the second is?
      | > | >
      | > |
      | > |
      | > |
      | > |
      | > |
      | > | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      | http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      | > |
      | > |
      |
      |
      |
      |
      |
      | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      |
      |
    • jaaah@tbcnet.com
      Never mind it, Carl! Thanks for the heads-up, I ll pick up a copy. ... Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com
      Message 31 of 31 , Feb 9, 2002
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        Never mind it, Carl! Thanks for the heads-up, I'll pick up a copy.


        > ** Original Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Just how big a threat was French or British intervention a...
        > ** Original Sender: "carlw4514" <carlw4514@...>
        > ** Original Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 10:07:21 -0600

        > ** Original Message follows...

        >
        > <html><body>
        >
        >
        > <tt>
        > oh me of little faith!<BR>
        > Addison, I was privately wondering if you were buying into some <BR>
        > baloney when you posted this, but apology tendered: there is a picture <BR>
        > in today's WASHINGTON TIMES showing a picture of the frigate Osliaba <BR>
        > "... visit[ing] Alexandria in 1863 in a symbolic show of support for <BR>
        > the U.S. Government." Havent read the article yet but looks pretty <BR>
        > good.<BR>
        > --- In civilwarwest@y..., jaaah@t... wrote:<BR>
        > > Tsar Alexandre II had his entire Imperial Navy docked at Alexandria <BR>
        > Harbor from late 1863 to October 1864. Alex was preparing for war <BR>
        > against England or France if 1) either of those two nations went to <BR>
        > help the Confederates against the Yanks, the Russian's allies, or 2) <BR>
        > if Poland rebelled and attempted to overthrow the Russian overlords. <BR>
        > Both England and France would have supported Poland in such an affair, <BR>
        > and Russia wanted it's navy to be in a safe, and secret place just in <BR>
        > case that ever happened. Of course, none of it ever did come to pass.<BR>
        > <BR>
        > <BR>
        > </tt>
        >
        > <br>
        >
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        >** --------- End Original Message ----------- **

        >


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