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Re: [civilwarwest] Medical Personnel

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  • L.A. Chambliss
    Dear Holtin and group, Very interesting story you have there! I have read a little about medical practices in the CW; most of my Western Theater knowledge is
    Message 1 of 10 , May 29, 2000
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      Dear Holtin and group,

      Very interesting story you have there!

      I have read a little about medical practices in the CW; most of my Western
      Theater knowledge is from the Union side though from an article I did about
      Mary Ann ("Mother") Bickerdyke. In other words I am no kind of an expert so
      will just ramble about some of the points you raise.

      First question, do the military records that show him on duty as a Nurse
      have a particular date or dates attached to it? I ask because men assigned
      to nursing duty were usually soldiers who were sick or injured themselves,
      but in the process of recovery. It was not at all unusual for men to fall
      to disease almost as soon as they were mustered in, simply from being
      around people from more distant areas and exposed to germs they might not
      have had. For example if measles hadn't gone around a person's neighborhood
      in a few years they might not have immunity to it. This could happen even
      to somebody who had traveled....Abraham Lincoln came down with varicella, a
      mild version of smallpox, while in the White House.

      If he enlisted in March of '61 I see almost zero possibility he could have
      been involved at Shiloh. Chances are he would have been sent to some sort
      of training facility or Camp of Instruction first, then would have to find
      transportation to whatever army the regiment was assigned to serve with.
      Additionally, there were no Confederates at Shiloh (Pittsburg Landing)
      after the battle; they withdrew to Corinth and left most of the dead and
      wounded behind for Yankee nurses (including Mother Bickerdyke! Had to throw
      that in.....) to take care of.

      My guess would be that the regiment joined the army soon enough after
      Shiloh that those who had been there were still talking of nothing else,
      and that was his first impression of Army life. Not wanting to accuse him
      of being a liar or claiming credit for events that happened to other
      people, but as you point out the stories have been working for four
      generations. A story he told as "This guy said to me that the fire at the
      Hornet's Nest was so fierce that......" might after a few years turn into
      "Daddy said that the fire at the Hornet's Nest was so fierce that..." and
      then later "When Grandpa Francis was at the Hornet's Nest at Shiloh
      he......"

      I think the dates indicate pretty clearly though that he was one of those
      who took the parole at Vicksburg as a "get out of jail free" card and went
      home instead of reporting back for duty. Something like half of Pemberton's
      forces who surrendered did this so he was certainly not unique. Confederate
      provosts and recruiters conducted numerous campaigns to try to round them
      up and send them back to the army but tended to be ignored, lied to, or
      politely asked to get the h*ll out of town, preferably before sunset, lest
      harm befall them. A certain amount of cynicism and disillusionment
      prevailed in the veterans of Vicksburg.

      You might try dropping by the Civil War chat board at www.us-civilwar.com
      and looking for times when "3rdLa", "Dameron", or "AoT" are on. These guys
      know far more about the specifics of regimental actions and movements than
      I do and might be able to give you more details.

      Welcome aboard and thanks for the question. The group has been a little
      dead lately and could use some perking up. :-)

      Laurie Chambliss (known as "Xan" on the said chat board)

      Holtin wrote:

      > Hi, Y'all!
      >
      > I am new to the Group, and look forward to meeting all of you.
      >
      > I have had the good fortune to become close friends with an Australian
      > whose great-grandfather emigrated to America about 1855. In March,
      > 1861, John Fearn Francis enlisted in New Orleans as a private with the
      > 28th Thomas' Louisiana Infantry Regiment (Volunteers). He was present
      > at Chickasaw Bluffs/Bayou and was paroled at Vicksburg as a 2nd
      > Lieutenant. He lived in Mansfield, Louisiana, and was there on 8 April
      > 1864. After his death at Mansfield, his widow and children returned home
      > to Australia. The events at Mansfield are another interesting story
      > altogether!
      >
      > A question: John Francis' military records show him to be a "Nurse in
      > Camp Hospital on Daily Duty", or "Nurse R.H." ("R.H"??? Regimental
      > Headquarters, maybe?). My friend remembers family stories about this
      > ancestor, including talk of Shiloh, but he can't remember the Shiloh
      > connection. Is there any record of medical personnel from other units,
      > especially a NEW unit, being sent in to Shiloh AFTER the battle?
      > Francis enlisted 29 March 1862; Shiloh was less than ten days later. Is
      > that even a possibility? The earliest date shown on the Company Muster
      > Rolls and Regimental Returns is 30 April 1862.
      >
      > Or maybe it was that the story of Shiloh made such an impression on
      > Ellen Francis (his widow) that the story has been passed on down to the
      > fourth generation.
      >
      > Anyone have any thoughts on this?
      > Thanks!
      >
      > _____________________________________________
      > NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
      > Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
      > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
      > Remember the good 'ol days
      > http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/3/_/14182/_/959623276/
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    • Alice Holtin
      Hi, Laurie, Thanks for your comments! You asked: First question, do the military records that show him on duty as a Nurse have a particular date or dates
      Message 2 of 10 , May 29, 2000
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        Hi, Laurie,

        Thanks for your comments!

        You asked:
        "First question, do the military records that show him on duty as a
        Nurse have a particular date or dates attached to it? I ask because
        men assigned to nursing duty were usually soldiers who were sick or
        injured themselves, but in the process of recovery."

        This is what we know from the records of John Francis....
        --Enlisted 29 March 1862, New Orleans
        --Company Muster Roll, April 30-Aug. 31, 1862 - Nurse in Camp
        Hospital
        on Daily Duty.
        --Company Muster Roll, Sept. & Oct., 1862 - Absent since Oct. 10,
        with
        leave. Sent home for clothing for Company.
        --Company Muster Roll, Oct. 31, 1862-Feb. 28, 1863 - Sick in camp.
        --Regimental Return, Aug. 1862 -- Nurse R.H.
        --Regimental Return, Sept, 1862 -- On daily duty with the "A.C.S." ??
        (unsure of first letter)
        --Roll of Prisoners of War, 2Lt. Co. B, Vicksburg, July 4, 1863.
        --Copy of Vicksburg Parole document, dated July 7, 1863, signed "2
        Lieut. Command"

        Does this help any??

        Thanks!
        Alice


        --- In civilwarwest@egroups.com, "L.A. Chambliss" <xanthipp@u...>
        wrote:
        > Dear Holtin and group,
        >
        > Very interesting story you have there!
        >
        > I have read a little about medical practices in the CW; most of my
        Western
        > Theater knowledge is from the Union side though from an article I
        did about
        > Mary Ann ("Mother") Bickerdyke. In other words I am no kind of an
        expert so
        > will just ramble about some of the points you raise.
        >
        > First question, do the military records that show him on duty as a
        Nurse
        > have a particular date or dates attached to it? I ask because men
        assigned
        > to nursing duty were usually soldiers who were sick or injured
        themselves,
        > but in the process of recovery. It was not at all unusual for men
        to
        fall
        > to disease almost as soon as they were mustered in, simply from
        being
        > around people from more distant areas and exposed to germs they
        might not
        > have had. For example if measles hadn't gone around a person's
        neighborhood
        > in a few years they might not have immunity to it. This could
        happen
        even
        > to somebody who had traveled....Abraham Lincoln came down with
        varicella, a
        > mild version of smallpox, while in the White House.
        >
        > If he enlisted in March of '61 I see almost zero possibility he
        could have
        > been involved at Shiloh. Chances are he would have been sent to
        some
        sort
        > of training facility or Camp of Instruction first, then would have
        to find
        > transportation to whatever army the regiment was assigned to serve
        with.
        > Additionally, there were no Confederates at Shiloh (Pittsburg
        Landing)
        > after the battle; they withdrew to Corinth and left most of the
        dead
        and
        > wounded behind for Yankee nurses (including Mother Bickerdyke! Had
        to throw
        > that in.....) to take care of.
        >
        > My guess would be that the regiment joined the army soon enough
        after
        > Shiloh that those who had been there were still talking of nothing
        else,
        > and that was his first impression of Army life. Not wanting to
        accuse him
        > of being a liar or claiming credit for events that happened to other
        > people, but as you point out the stories have been working for four
        > generations. A story he told as "This guy said to me that the fire
        at the
        > Hornet's Nest was so fierce that......" might after a few years
        turn
        into
        > "Daddy said that the fire at the Hornet's Nest was so fierce
        that..." and
        > then later "When Grandpa Francis was at the Hornet's Nest at Shiloh
        > he......"
        >
        > I think the dates indicate pretty clearly though that he was one of
        those
        > who took the parole at Vicksburg as a "get out of jail free" card
        and went
        > home instead of reporting back for duty. Something like half of
        Pemberton's
        > forces who surrendered did this so he was certainly not unique.
        Confederate
        > provosts and recruiters conducted numerous campaigns to try to
        round
        them
        > up and send them back to the army but tended to be ignored, lied
        to,
        or
        > politely asked to get the h*ll out of town, preferably before
        sunset, lest
        > harm befall them. A certain amount of cynicism and disillusionment
        > prevailed in the veterans of Vicksburg.
        >
        > You might try dropping by the Civil War chat board at
        www.us-civilwar.com
        > and looking for times when "3rdLa", "Dameron", or "AoT" are on.
        These guys
        > know far more about the specifics of regimental actions and
        movements than
        > I do and might be able to give you more details.
        >
        > Welcome aboard and thanks for the question. The group has been a
        little
        > dead lately and could use some perking up. :-)
        >
        > Laurie Chambliss (known as "Xan" on the said chat board)
        >
      • Alice Holtin
        Hi, Laurie, Thanks for your comments! You asked: First question, do the military records that show him on duty as a Nurse have a particular date or dates
        Message 3 of 10 , May 29, 2000
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          Hi, Laurie,

          Thanks for your comments!

          You asked:
          "First question, do the military records that show him on duty as a
          Nurse have a particular date or dates attached to it? I ask because
          men assigned to nursing duty were usually soldiers who were sick or
          injured themselves, but in the process of recovery."

          This is what we know from the records of John Francis....
          --Enlisted 29 March 1862, New Orleans
          --Company Muster Roll, April 30-Aug. 31, 1862 - Nurse in Camp
          Hospital
          on Daily Duty.
          --Company Muster Roll, Sept. & Oct., 1862 - Absent since Oct. 10,
          with
          leave. Sent home for clothing for Company.
          --Company Muster Roll, Oct. 31, 1862-Feb. 28, 1863 - Sick in camp.
          --Regimental Return, Aug. 1862 -- Nurse R.H.
          --Regimental Return, Sept, 1862 -- On daily duty with the "A.C.S." ??
          (unsure of first letter)
          --Roll of Prisoners of War, 2Lt. Co. B, Vicksburg, July 4, 1863.
          --Copy of Vicksburg Parole document, dated July 7, 1863, signed "2
          Lieut. Command"

          Does this help any??

          Thanks!
          Alice


          --- In civilwarwest@egroups.com, "L.A. Chambliss" <xanthipp@u...>
          wrote:
          > Dear Holtin and group,
          >
          > Very interesting story you have there!
          >
          > I have read a little about medical practices in the CW; most of my
          Western
          > Theater knowledge is from the Union side though from an article I
          did about
          > Mary Ann ("Mother") Bickerdyke. In other words I am no kind of an
          expert so
          > will just ramble about some of the points you raise.
          >
          > First question, do the military records that show him on duty as a
          Nurse
          > have a particular date or dates attached to it? I ask because men
          assigned
          > to nursing duty were usually soldiers who were sick or injured
          themselves,
          > but in the process of recovery. It was not at all unusual for men
          to
          fall
          > to disease almost as soon as they were mustered in, simply from
          being
          > around people from more distant areas and exposed to germs they
          might not
          > have had. For example if measles hadn't gone around a person's
          neighborhood
          > in a few years they might not have immunity to it. This could
          happen
          even
          > to somebody who had traveled....Abraham Lincoln came down with
          varicella, a
          > mild version of smallpox, while in the White House.
          >
          > If he enlisted in March of '61 I see almost zero possibility he
          could have
          > been involved at Shiloh. Chances are he would have been sent to
          some
          sort
          > of training facility or Camp of Instruction first, then would have
          to find
          > transportation to whatever army the regiment was assigned to serve
          with.
          > Additionally, there were no Confederates at Shiloh (Pittsburg
          Landing)
          > after the battle; they withdrew to Corinth and left most of the
          dead
          and
          > wounded behind for Yankee nurses (including Mother Bickerdyke! Had
          to throw
          > that in.....) to take care of.
          >
          > My guess would be that the regiment joined the army soon enough
          after
          > Shiloh that those who had been there were still talking of nothing
          else,
          > and that was his first impression of Army life. Not wanting to
          accuse him
          > of being a liar or claiming credit for events that happened to other
          > people, but as you point out the stories have been working for four
          > generations. A story he told as "This guy said to me that the fire
          at the
          > Hornet's Nest was so fierce that......" might after a few years
          turn
          into
          > "Daddy said that the fire at the Hornet's Nest was so fierce
          that..." and
          > then later "When Grandpa Francis was at the Hornet's Nest at Shiloh
          > he......"
          >
          > I think the dates indicate pretty clearly though that he was one of
          those
          > who took the parole at Vicksburg as a "get out of jail free" card
          and went
          > home instead of reporting back for duty. Something like half of
          Pemberton's
          > forces who surrendered did this so he was certainly not unique.
          Confederate
          > provosts and recruiters conducted numerous campaigns to try to
          round
          them
          > up and send them back to the army but tended to be ignored, lied
          to,
          or
          > politely asked to get the h*ll out of town, preferably before
          sunset, lest
          > harm befall them. A certain amount of cynicism and disillusionment
          > prevailed in the veterans of Vicksburg.
          >
          > You might try dropping by the Civil War chat board at
          www.us-civilwar.com
          > and looking for times when "3rdLa", "Dameron", or "AoT" are on.
          These guys
          > know far more about the specifics of regimental actions and
          movements than
          > I do and might be able to give you more details.
          >
          > Welcome aboard and thanks for the question. The group has been a
          little
          > dead lately and could use some perking up. :-)
          >
          > Laurie Chambliss (known as "Xan" on the said chat board)
          >
        • Stephen D Wakefield
          Actually your family story regarding the Battle of Shiloh rings very possibly true.In response to General Beauregard s call for troops to help reverse the tide
          Message 4 of 10 , May 29, 2000
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            Actually your family story regarding the Battle of Shiloh rings very
            possibly true.In response to General Beauregard's call for troops to help
            reverse the tide following Ft. Donelson, New Orleans commander General
            Lovell promised significant reinforcements from the New Orleans front. ( in
            fact this stripping of the defenses of New Orleans is an often over looked
            consequence of the Confederate concentration to meet the Union threat in So.
            West Tennessee.
            However part of the New Orleans forces sent to North Mississippi were about
            1500 state militia troops who had volunteered for 90 days of service.These
            troops made up three very interesting units that would ultimately fight at
            Shiloh. Because they were state militia the units were not given the
            customary number and state designations assigned to the normal Confederate
            infantry regiments.(e.g.. the 12th Tenn. Volunteer Infantry) Rather these
            three units were called The Orleans Guard Battalion,Crescent Regiment and
            the Confederate Guard Response Battalion. The Crescent Regiment was also
            known as the "Kid Glove Regiment because it was made up in very large part
            by the sons of the upper economic class of New Orleans.These militia units
            were packed unto rail cars and reportedly left New Orleans beginning on
            March 18th. It certainly is fair to assume that many of these militia
            volunteers were not transported to Corinth Ms until several days later.
            Now the muster papers indicating a enlistment on March 29th are very easy to
            understand as can be imagined once these state militia arrived in Corinth
            the pressure to volunteer into a "regular " non-state militia unit had to
            be great.There were numerous regular Louisiana units at Corinth and it only
            makes sense to me that representatives from those units would have recruited
            these state militia types to join up with a "real" fighting unit.Also
            another very easy explanation for the March 29 enlistment is an attempt to
            get these state militia boys on the Confederate government muster role for
            pay roll purposes. The confederate government were responsible for paying
            troops that had joined the confederate army and the state governments were
            liable for the pay of state militia units. Since they had left the state of
            La. I would assume that the Confederate government had agreed to pay them
            for the troops time while serving with the Confederate Army of the
            Mississippi ( what Johnston's concentration came to be called.).
            As far a separate medical unit- no such animal generally existed during the
            war. Each individual Regiment or Battalion was in theory to have their own
            medical and support functions within its own organization. So it would make
            great sense that a hospital steward would be assirgned to Regt. HQ as
            opposed to a specific company. Just my immediate thoughts hope this is of
            some help.
            Regards
            Wakefield
          • Stephen D Wakefield
            Actually your family story regarding the Battle of Shiloh rings very possibly true.In response to General Beauregard s call for troops to help reverse the tide
            Message 5 of 10 , May 29, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              Actually your family story regarding the Battle of Shiloh rings very
              possibly true.In response to General Beauregard's call for troops to help
              reverse the tide following Ft. Donelson, New Orleans commander General
              Lovell promised significant reinforcements from the New Orleans front. ( in
              fact this stripping of the defenses of New Orleans is an often over looked
              consequence of the Confederate concentration to meet the Union threat in So.
              West Tennessee.
              However part of the New Orleans forces sent to North Mississippi were about
              1500 state militia troops who had volunteered for 90 days of service.These
              troops made up three very interesting units that would ultimately fight at
              Shiloh. Because they were state militia the units were not given the
              customary number and state designations assigned to the normal Confederate
              infantry regiments.(e.g.. the 12th Tenn. Volunteer Infantry) Rather these
              three units were called The Orleans Guard Battalion,Crescent Regiment and
              the Confederate Guard Response Battalion. The Crescent Regiment was also
              known as the "Kid Glove Regiment because it was made up in very large part
              by the sons of the upper economic class of New Orleans.These militia units
              were packed unto rail cars and reportedly left New Orleans beginning on
              March 18th. It certainly is fair to assume that many of these militia
              volunteers were not transported to Corinth Ms until several days later.
              Now the muster papers indicating a enlistment on March 29th are very easy to
              understand as can be imagined once these state militia arrived in Corinth
              the pressure to volunteer into a "regular " non-state militia unit had to
              be great.There were numerous regular Louisiana units at Corinth and it only
              makes sense to me that representatives from those units would have recruited
              these state militia types to join up with a "real" fighting unit.Also
              another very easy explanation for the March 29 enlistment is an attempt to
              get these state militia boys on the Confederate government muster role for
              pay roll purposes. The confederate government were responsible for paying
              troops that had joined the confederate army and the state governments were
              liable for the pay of state militia units. Since they had left the state of
              La. I would assume that the Confederate government had agreed to pay them
              for the troops time while serving with the Confederate Army of the
              Mississippi ( what Johnston's concentration came to be called.).
              As far a separate medical unit- no such animal generally existed during the
              war. Each individual Regiment or Battalion was in theory to have their own
              medical and support functions within its own organization. So it would make
              great sense that a hospital steward would be assirgned to Regt. HQ as
              opposed to a specific company. Just my immediate thoughts hope this is of
              some help.
              Regards
              Wakefield
            • Stephen D Wakefield
              One thing I neglected to mention ...I am assuming that the records we have are from the 28th La, Volunteer Infantry. the 28th La. was not in existence at the
              Message 6 of 10 , May 29, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                One thing I neglected to mention ...I am assuming that the records we have
                are from the 28th La, Volunteer Infantry. the 28th La. was not in existence
                at the time of Shiloh April6-7, 1862, BUT if in fact he had state militia
                service ( with one of the three militia units I identified in the earlier
                post) when he signed up with the 28 La. he would have been given credit for
                time served from his prior service, He was signing up for 3 years or the war
                whichever came first. It was common for officers as an inducement to sign up
                to allow enlistees to "back-date" initial enlistment to time he had joined
                prior units.
                When the three militia units I mentioned had their 90 enlistment's expire,
                it would have been during the Siege of Cornith and many joined new or
                existing regular volunteer units. For example I think the Crescent Reg..
                which was in fact 11 companies instead of the regulation called for 10
                companies ... pretty much joined up enmass to form t___ I think and this is
                from memory the 20th or 23 th La... Could be wrong on that.
                Now unfortunately I just do not know exactly when the 28th La. came into
                being.
                Now that brings us to the BIG problem with your information. To the best of
                my memory there was no 28th La. at Chickasaw Bluffs or that surrendered with
                the Vicksburg garrison. Now I will defer to " Dameron" who is really our
                resident expert on Vicksburg. But the provisional division under Lee was the
                only division with La. infantry units in it at Chickasaw Bluffs and I am
                pretty sure ( not certain ) that the La infantry regiments where
                17th,22nd,26th, 29th and 31st. I think the 3rd La. arrived after most of
                fighting completed... the 28th though I just do not remember. Also no 28th
                La. at Shiloh. At the surrender in July 63 there was no 28th La. that
                surrendered --now on this one I am about 90% sure.
                Regards-
                Wakefield
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Holtin <holtin@...>
                To: <civilwarwest@egroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 1:05 PM
                Subject: [civilwarwest] Medical Personnel


                > Hi, Y'all!
                >
                > I am new to the Group, and look forward to meeting all of you.
                >
                > I have had the good fortune to become close friends with an Australian
                > whose great-grandfather emigrated to America about 1855. In March,
                > 1861, John Fearn Francis enlisted in New Orleans as a private with the
                > 28th Thomas' Louisiana Infantry Regiment (Volunteers). He was present
                > at Chickasaw Bluffs/Bayou and was paroled at Vicksburg as a 2nd
                > Lieutenant. He lived in Mansfield, Louisiana, and was there on 8 April
                > 1864. After his death at Mansfield, his widow and children returned home
                > to Australia. The events at Mansfield are another interesting story
                > altogether!
                >
                > A question: John Francis' military records show him to be a "Nurse in
                > Camp Hospital on Daily Duty", or "Nurse R.H." ("R.H"??? Regimental
                > Headquarters, maybe?). My friend remembers family stories about this
                > ancestor, including talk of Shiloh, but he can't remember the Shiloh
                > connection. Is there any record of medical personnel from other units,
                > especially a NEW unit, being sent in to Shiloh AFTER the battle?
                > Francis enlisted 29 March 1862; Shiloh was less than ten days later. Is
                > that even a possibility? The earliest date shown on the Company Muster
                > Rolls and Regimental Returns is 30 April 1862.
                >
                > Or maybe it was that the story of Shiloh made such an impression on
                > Ellen Francis (his widow) that the story has been passed on down to the
                > fourth generation.
                >
                > Anyone have any thoughts on this?
                > Thanks!
                >
                > _____________________________________________
                > NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
                > Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
                > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
                > Remember the good 'ol days
                > http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/3/_/14182/_/959623276/
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >
                >
              • Stephen D Wakefield
                One thing I neglected to mention ...I am assuming that the records we have are from the 28th La, Volunteer Infantry. the 28th La. was not in existence at the
                Message 7 of 10 , May 29, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  One thing I neglected to mention ...I am assuming that the records we have
                  are from the 28th La, Volunteer Infantry. the 28th La. was not in existence
                  at the time of Shiloh April6-7, 1862, BUT if in fact he had state militia
                  service ( with one of the three militia units I identified in the earlier
                  post) when he signed up with the 28 La. he would have been given credit for
                  time served from his prior service, He was signing up for 3 years or the war
                  whichever came first. It was common for officers as an inducement to sign up
                  to allow enlistees to "back-date" initial enlistment to time he had joined
                  prior units.
                  When the three militia units I mentioned had their 90 enlistment's expire,
                  it would have been during the Siege of Cornith and many joined new or
                  existing regular volunteer units. For example I think the Crescent Reg..
                  which was in fact 11 companies instead of the regulation called for 10
                  companies ... pretty much joined up enmass to form t___ I think and this is
                  from memory the 20th or 23 th La... Could be wrong on that.
                  Now unfortunately I just do not know exactly when the 28th La. came into
                  being.
                  Now that brings us to the BIG problem with your information. To the best of
                  my memory there was no 28th La. at Chickasaw Bluffs or that surrendered with
                  the Vicksburg garrison. Now I will defer to " Dameron" who is really our
                  resident expert on Vicksburg. But the provisional division under Lee was the
                  only division with La. infantry units in it at Chickasaw Bluffs and I am
                  pretty sure ( not certain ) that the La infantry regiments where
                  17th,22nd,26th, 29th and 31st. I think the 3rd La. arrived after most of
                  fighting completed... the 28th though I just do not remember. Also no 28th
                  La. at Shiloh. At the surrender in July 63 there was no 28th La. that
                  surrendered --now on this one I am about 90% sure.
                  Regards-
                  Wakefield
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Holtin <holtin@...>
                  To: <civilwarwest@egroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 1:05 PM
                  Subject: [civilwarwest] Medical Personnel


                  > Hi, Y'all!
                  >
                  > I am new to the Group, and look forward to meeting all of you.
                  >
                  > I have had the good fortune to become close friends with an Australian
                  > whose great-grandfather emigrated to America about 1855. In March,
                  > 1861, John Fearn Francis enlisted in New Orleans as a private with the
                  > 28th Thomas' Louisiana Infantry Regiment (Volunteers). He was present
                  > at Chickasaw Bluffs/Bayou and was paroled at Vicksburg as a 2nd
                  > Lieutenant. He lived in Mansfield, Louisiana, and was there on 8 April
                  > 1864. After his death at Mansfield, his widow and children returned home
                  > to Australia. The events at Mansfield are another interesting story
                  > altogether!
                  >
                  > A question: John Francis' military records show him to be a "Nurse in
                  > Camp Hospital on Daily Duty", or "Nurse R.H." ("R.H"??? Regimental
                  > Headquarters, maybe?). My friend remembers family stories about this
                  > ancestor, including talk of Shiloh, but he can't remember the Shiloh
                  > connection. Is there any record of medical personnel from other units,
                  > especially a NEW unit, being sent in to Shiloh AFTER the battle?
                  > Francis enlisted 29 March 1862; Shiloh was less than ten days later. Is
                  > that even a possibility? The earliest date shown on the Company Muster
                  > Rolls and Regimental Returns is 30 April 1862.
                  >
                  > Or maybe it was that the story of Shiloh made such an impression on
                  > Ellen Francis (his widow) that the story has been passed on down to the
                  > fourth generation.
                  >
                  > Anyone have any thoughts on this?
                  > Thanks!
                  >
                  > _____________________________________________
                  > NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
                  > Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
                  > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
                  > Remember the good 'ol days
                  > http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/3/_/14182/_/959623276/
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                • Alice Holtin
                  Thanks for the additional information, Steve. Maybe I should be more specific. Francis was with what was commonly known as the 28th Thomas Louisiana , or
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 29, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks for the additional information, Steve.

                    Maybe I should be more specific. Francis was with what was commonly
                    known as the "28th Thomas' Louisiana", or more accurately, the 29th
                    Louisiana Inf. Reg., Co. B, Elam Guards. At Vicksburg, they were
                    with
                    Maj.-Gen. Martin L. Smith's Division; Third Brigade, Brig.-Gen.
                    Stephen D. Lee, Brig-Gen. F.A. Shoup.

                    Sorry for the confusion.
                    Alice


                    --- In civilwarwest@egroups.com, "Stephen D Wakefield"
                    <sdwakefield@p...> wrote:
                    > One thing I neglected to mention ...I am assuming that the records
                    we have
                    > are from the 28th La, Volunteer Infantry. the 28th La. was not in
                    existence
                    > at the time of Shiloh April6-7, 1862, BUT if in fact he had state
                    militia
                    > service ( with one of the three militia units I identified in the
                    earlier
                    > post) when he signed up with the 28 La. he would have been given
                    credit for
                    > time served from his prior service, He was signing up for 3 years
                    or
                    the war
                    > whichever came first. It was common for officers as an inducement
                    to
                    sign up
                    > to allow enlistees to "back-date" initial enlistment to time he had
                    joined
                    > prior units.
                    > When the three militia units I mentioned had their 90 enlistment's
                    expire,
                    > it would have been during the Siege of Cornith and many joined new
                    or
                    > existing regular volunteer units. For example I think the Crescent
                    Reg..
                    > which was in fact 11 companies instead of the regulation called for
                    10
                    > companies ... pretty much joined up enmass to form t___ I think and
                    this is
                    > from memory the 20th or 23 th La... Could be wrong on that.
                    > Now unfortunately I just do not know exactly when the 28th La. came
                    into
                    > being.
                    > Now that brings us to the BIG problem with your information. To the
                    best of
                    > my memory there was no 28th La. at Chickasaw Bluffs or that
                    surrendered with
                    > the Vicksburg garrison. Now I will defer to " Dameron" who is
                    really
                    our
                    > resident expert on Vicksburg. But the provisional division under
                    Lee
                    was the
                    > only division with La. infantry units in it at Chickasaw Bluffs and
                    I am
                    > pretty sure ( not certain ) that the La infantry regiments where
                    > 17th,22nd,26th, 29th and 31st. I think the 3rd La. arrived after
                    most of
                    > fighting completed... the 28th though I just do not remember. Also
                    no 28th
                    > La. at Shiloh. At the surrender in July 63 there was no 28th La.
                    that
                    > surrendered --now on this one I am about 90% sure.
                    > Regards-
                    > Wakefield
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Holtin <holtin@n...>
                    > To: <civilwarwest@egroups.com>
                    > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 1:05 PM
                    > Subject: [civilwarwest] Medical Personnel
                    >
                    >
                    > > Hi, Y'all!
                    > >
                    > > I am new to the Group, and look forward to meeting all of you.
                    > >
                    > > I have had the good fortune to become close friends with an
                    Australian
                    > > whose great-grandfather emigrated to America about 1855. In
                    March,
                    > > 1861, John Fearn Francis enlisted in New Orleans as a private
                    with
                    the
                    > > 28th Thomas' Louisiana Infantry Regiment (Volunteers). He was
                    present
                    > > at Chickasaw Bluffs/Bayou and was paroled at Vicksburg as a 2nd
                    > > Lieutenant. He lived in Mansfield, Louisiana, and was there on 8
                    April
                    > > 1864. After his death at Mansfield, his widow and children
                    returned home
                    > > to Australia. The events at Mansfield are another interesting
                    story
                    > > altogether!
                    > >
                    > > A question: John Francis' military records show him to be a
                    "Nurse in
                    > > Camp Hospital on Daily Duty", or "Nurse R.H." ("R.H"??? Regimental
                    > > Headquarters, maybe?). My friend remembers family stories about
                    this
                    > > ancestor, including talk of Shiloh, but he can't remember the
                    Shiloh
                    > > connection. Is there any record of medical personnel from other
                    units,
                    > > especially a NEW unit, being sent in to Shiloh AFTER the battle?
                    > > Francis enlisted 29 March 1862; Shiloh was less than ten days
                    later. Is
                    > > that even a possibility? The earliest date shown on the Company
                    Muster
                    > > Rolls and Regimental Returns is 30 April 1862.
                    > >
                    > > Or maybe it was that the story of Shiloh made such an impression
                    on
                    > > Ellen Francis (his widow) that the story has been passed on down
                    to the
                    > > fourth generation.
                    > >
                    > > Anyone have any thoughts on this?
                    > > Thanks!
                    > >
                    > > _____________________________________________
                    > > NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
                    > > Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
                    > > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
                    > >
                    > >
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    --
                    > > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
                    > > Remember the good 'ol days
                    > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/3/_/14182/_/959623276/
                    > >
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    --
                    > >
                    > >
                  • Alice Holtin
                    Thanks for the additional information, Steve. Maybe I should be more specific. Francis was with what was commonly known as the 28th Thomas Louisiana , or
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 29, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks for the additional information, Steve.

                      Maybe I should be more specific. Francis was with what was commonly
                      known as the "28th Thomas' Louisiana", or more accurately, the 29th
                      Louisiana Inf. Reg., Co. B, Elam Guards. At Vicksburg, they were
                      with
                      Maj.-Gen. Martin L. Smith's Division; Third Brigade, Brig.-Gen.
                      Stephen D. Lee, Brig-Gen. F.A. Shoup.

                      Sorry for the confusion.
                      Alice


                      --- In civilwarwest@egroups.com, "Stephen D Wakefield"
                      <sdwakefield@p...> wrote:
                      > One thing I neglected to mention ...I am assuming that the records
                      we have
                      > are from the 28th La, Volunteer Infantry. the 28th La. was not in
                      existence
                      > at the time of Shiloh April6-7, 1862, BUT if in fact he had state
                      militia
                      > service ( with one of the three militia units I identified in the
                      earlier
                      > post) when he signed up with the 28 La. he would have been given
                      credit for
                      > time served from his prior service, He was signing up for 3 years
                      or
                      the war
                      > whichever came first. It was common for officers as an inducement
                      to
                      sign up
                      > to allow enlistees to "back-date" initial enlistment to time he had
                      joined
                      > prior units.
                      > When the three militia units I mentioned had their 90 enlistment's
                      expire,
                      > it would have been during the Siege of Cornith and many joined new
                      or
                      > existing regular volunteer units. For example I think the Crescent
                      Reg..
                      > which was in fact 11 companies instead of the regulation called for
                      10
                      > companies ... pretty much joined up enmass to form t___ I think and
                      this is
                      > from memory the 20th or 23 th La... Could be wrong on that.
                      > Now unfortunately I just do not know exactly when the 28th La. came
                      into
                      > being.
                      > Now that brings us to the BIG problem with your information. To the
                      best of
                      > my memory there was no 28th La. at Chickasaw Bluffs or that
                      surrendered with
                      > the Vicksburg garrison. Now I will defer to " Dameron" who is
                      really
                      our
                      > resident expert on Vicksburg. But the provisional division under
                      Lee
                      was the
                      > only division with La. infantry units in it at Chickasaw Bluffs and
                      I am
                      > pretty sure ( not certain ) that the La infantry regiments where
                      > 17th,22nd,26th, 29th and 31st. I think the 3rd La. arrived after
                      most of
                      > fighting completed... the 28th though I just do not remember. Also
                      no 28th
                      > La. at Shiloh. At the surrender in July 63 there was no 28th La.
                      that
                      > surrendered --now on this one I am about 90% sure.
                      > Regards-
                      > Wakefield
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Holtin <holtin@n...>
                      > To: <civilwarwest@egroups.com>
                      > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 1:05 PM
                      > Subject: [civilwarwest] Medical Personnel
                      >
                      >
                      > > Hi, Y'all!
                      > >
                      > > I am new to the Group, and look forward to meeting all of you.
                      > >
                      > > I have had the good fortune to become close friends with an
                      Australian
                      > > whose great-grandfather emigrated to America about 1855. In
                      March,
                      > > 1861, John Fearn Francis enlisted in New Orleans as a private
                      with
                      the
                      > > 28th Thomas' Louisiana Infantry Regiment (Volunteers). He was
                      present
                      > > at Chickasaw Bluffs/Bayou and was paroled at Vicksburg as a 2nd
                      > > Lieutenant. He lived in Mansfield, Louisiana, and was there on 8
                      April
                      > > 1864. After his death at Mansfield, his widow and children
                      returned home
                      > > to Australia. The events at Mansfield are another interesting
                      story
                      > > altogether!
                      > >
                      > > A question: John Francis' military records show him to be a
                      "Nurse in
                      > > Camp Hospital on Daily Duty", or "Nurse R.H." ("R.H"??? Regimental
                      > > Headquarters, maybe?). My friend remembers family stories about
                      this
                      > > ancestor, including talk of Shiloh, but he can't remember the
                      Shiloh
                      > > connection. Is there any record of medical personnel from other
                      units,
                      > > especially a NEW unit, being sent in to Shiloh AFTER the battle?
                      > > Francis enlisted 29 March 1862; Shiloh was less than ten days
                      later. Is
                      > > that even a possibility? The earliest date shown on the Company
                      Muster
                      > > Rolls and Regimental Returns is 30 April 1862.
                      > >
                      > > Or maybe it was that the story of Shiloh made such an impression
                      on
                      > > Ellen Francis (his widow) that the story has been passed on down
                      to the
                      > > fourth generation.
                      > >
                      > > Anyone have any thoughts on this?
                      > > Thanks!
                      > >
                      > > _____________________________________________
                      > > NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
                      > > Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
                      > > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
                      > >
                      > >
                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                      --
                      > > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
                      > > Remember the good 'ol days
                      > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/3/_/14182/_/959623276/
                      > >
                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                      --
                      > >
                      > >
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