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Re: Any good books on the great train chase of 1862?

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  • tnreb48
    Carl, I remeber a movie when I was a kid that starred Fess Parker. I cant rember the name of it though. ... determination ... back!
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 6, 2001
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      Carl,
      I remeber a movie when I was a kid that starred Fess Parker. I cant
      rember the name of it though.


      --- In civilwarwest@y..., "carlw4514" <carlw4514@y...> wrote:
      > A perfectly appropriate subject for our western group! To me one of
      > the most interesting things about it is the incredible
      determination
      > of the Southern engineer to overcome all odds and get his train
      back!
      > Sometimes the Buster Keaton movie is mentioned [THE GENERAL (1927)]
      > but it's a comedy! Were there any other movies made about it?
      > carl
      > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "pmancini" <peter_mancini@m...> wrote:
      > > I found this site on the net that talked about Union raiders
      > stealing
      > > the locomotive "The General" and causing havoc in the South until
      > > they were caught. Are they any good books on the subject?
      > >
      > > http://ngeorgia.com/history/raiders.html
      > >
      > > --Peter
    • Jfepperson@aol.com
      Pittenger also wrote a book on the escapade, titled Daring and Suffering. It was IIRC the basis for the Disney movie (which my 4 year old son loves) and was
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 6, 2001
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        Pittenger also wrote a book on the escapade, titled "Daring and
        Suffering." It was IIRC the basis for the Disney movie (which my
        4 year old son loves) and was reprinted in the 1980s by Time-Life.

        JFE

        James F. Epperson
        http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/causes.html
        http://members.aol.com/siege1864
      • Dick Weeks
        For anyone that might not have Battles and Leaders (I can t imagine who that might be) Pittenger s account is located on my website on this page:
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 6, 2001
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          For anyone that might not have Battles and Leaders (I can't imagine who that might be) Pittenger's account is located on my website on this page:
           
           
          I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
          Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:20 PM
          Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Any good books on the great train chase of 1862?

          Gentlemen,
           
              The is an excellent website on the subject of the Great Locomotive Chase which may be found at http://www.greatlocomotivechase.com/.  As it happens the site is based on a book called The General & The Texas: A Pictorial History of the Andrews Raid, April 12, 1862 by James G. Bogle and Stan Cohen.  The site is really fantastic with a full account of the raid and biographies of the participants.
           
              If you're looking for more, William Pittenger of the 2nd Ohio Vol., and one of the Raiders, gives his account of the proceedings in Volume 2 of Battles & Leaders of the Civil War.
           
          Regards,
          Tim Harrison
          www.swcivilwar.com
           
        • glblank
          ... stealing ... Stephen Sears wrote a short on the subject titled (naturally) The Great Locomotive Chase. I cannot any link to it on the web. However I
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 6, 2001
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            --- In civilwarwest@y..., "pmancini" <peter_mancini@m...> wrote:
            > I found this site on the net that talked about Union raiders
            stealing
            > the locomotive "The General" and causing havoc in the South until
            > they were caught. Are they any good books on the subject?

            Stephen Sears wrote a short on the subject titled (naturally) "The
            Great Locomotive Chase." I cannot any link to it on the web.
            However I found it an American Heritage Library collection titled
            "The Civil War" edited by Stepen Sears and printed in 1991.

            Geoff
          • Aurelie1999@aol.com
            I am absolutely fascinated with the strategic impact of railroads throughout the war. What makes the entire story so fascinating is that railroads were new
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 6, 2001
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              I am absolutely fascinated with the strategic impact of railroads throughout
              the war. What makes the entire story so fascinating is that railroads were
              new and had never been covered at West Point. Yet the great rolling wheels
              rapidly became tactical considerations, essential to effective strategic
              planning and weapons in their own right. The tracks stitched the army to
              their supplies and played a part in defeating the South by adding steam to
              the West Point mantra of "celerity."

              Herman Haupt personified Yankee ingenuity when he built the cornstalk bridge
              across Potomac Creek, developed a prefab system for quickly laying and
              repairing track and kept the trains running on time and with precision. In
              the West, Grenville Dodge adapted the English castle system for protecting
              the lines and was able to fix broken track so quickly that the Confederates
              were in complete awe.

              The best book I have found so far on the impact of railroads is Victory Rode
              the Rails by George Edgar Turner which covers both the North and South
              railroad situations. The Northern Railroads in the Civil War by Thomas
              Webber is full of information, but much duller reading. Now I want to get
              one that concentrates completely on the Southern railroads. The CSA also
              displayed the Yankee ingenuity trait by the mere fact that they kept their
              trains running to the end, an almost impossible task considering their lack
              of resources in replenishing rolling stock and tracks. The railroads in the
              CW are an amazing story worthy of a good movie.

              Connie
            • carlw4514
              I agree, the Southern RR story needs to be told, including: - early appreciation of strategic value, greatly effecting First Manassas, for example - the woeful
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 7, 2001
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                I agree, the Southern RR story needs to be told, including:
                - early appreciation of strategic value, greatly effecting First
                Manassas, for example
                - the woeful situation presented to war planners, including mixed
                guages from company to company, poor bridges, and the just about
                exclusive use of strap iron on wood rails instead of real iron rails.
                These straps naturally often got loose and even wound up poking up in
                the air, and there are accounts of soldiers and other travelers
                jumping up on the seats to avoid "snakeheads" ripping up into the
                cars.
                - the ingenuity displayed in stealing rolling stock (often dramatic as
                we have seen).
                - the continued deterioration becoming nearly unmanageable towards the
                end.
                --- In civilwarwest@y..., Aurelie1999@a... wrote:
                [...] Now I want to get
                > one that concentrates completely on the Southern railroads. The CSA
                also
                > displayed the Yankee ingenuity trait by the mere fact that they kept
                their
                > trains running to the end, an almost impossible task considering
                their lack
                > of resources in replenishing rolling stock and tracks. The
                railroads in the
                > CW are an amazing story worthy of a good movie.
                >
                > Connie
              • Aurelie1999@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/7/01 8:44:43 AM, carlw4514@yahoo.com writes:
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 7, 2001
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                  In a message dated 12/7/01 8:44:43 AM, carlw4514@... writes:

                  << These straps naturally often got loose and even wound up poking up in
                  the air, and there are accounts of soldiers and other travelers
                  jumping up on the seats to avoid "snakeheads" ripping up into the
                  cars. >>

                  Fascinating detail. Our view of the 1860s railroad experience comes from
                  chugging through a park on a clear, warm summer day in an "authentic" steam
                  powered 2 car train. Course we miss such inconveniences as snake heads,
                  careening around bends, smoke from the stove choking every breath, wooden
                  benches, flying debris from opened windows (to get a breath of fresh air),
                  sniper bullets, fetid hay, lurches, screeches and an abysmal safety record.
                  Then there were late trains, no trains, troop trains, stopovers, walks
                  between stations, head-on collisions, and trains going nowhere.

                  Connie
                • carlw4514
                  accidents on the RR resulted in the creation of standard time and time zones sometime in the 19th century. Yep, there were instances of engineer Joe pulling
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 7, 2001
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                    accidents on the RR resulted in the creation of standard time and time
                    zones sometime in the 19th century. Yep, there were instances of
                    engineer Joe pulling out of Podunk and slamming into engineer Sam bcuz
                    he was pulling out of West Whistle Stop 5 miles away and the time was
                    different there and they didnt know they were going to be on the same
                    road at the same time.
                    carl
                    --- In civilwarwest@y..., Aurelie1999@a... wrote:
                    >[..]
                    > Then there were late trains, no trains, troop trains, stopovers,
                    walks
                    > between stations, head-on collisions, and trains going nowhere.
                    >
                    > Connie
                  • John T. Coleman
                    Don t forget, the General is on display in Marietta, GA. John
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 8, 2001
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                      Don't forget, "the General" is on display in Marietta, GA.

                      John
                    • Bob Huddleston
                      Interestingly, airlines use a lot of RR procedures in running airlines, even using many of the same words: in the industry, smaller airports are called
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 13, 2001
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                        Interestingly, airlines use a lot of RR procedures in running airlines, even
                        using many of the same words: in the industry, smaller airports are called
                        stations.

                        The RR adopted the telegraph in the 1840s to prevent corn field meets.

                        However, Standard Time was created not for safety but to allow coordination
                        of different rail lines, so that they could pass passengers and freight back
                        and forth. Towns often had three times: sun, and those of any railroads
                        which happened to run into the community. Circa 1885, the predecessor of the
                        American Association of Railroads adopted Standard Time, and most
                        communities fell into place. However, legally, the country as a whole did
                        not adopt it until 1918, when Congress mandated Daylight Savings Time.

                        Take care,

                        Bob

                        Judy and Bob Huddleston
                        10643 Sperry Street
                        Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                        303.451.6276 Adco@...

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: carlw4514 [mailto:carlw4514@...]
                        Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 10:36 AM
                        To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: RR in the south ( was Any good books ...)


                        accidents on the RR resulted in the creation of standard time and time
                        zones sometime in the 19th century. Yep, there were instances of
                        engineer Joe pulling out of Podunk and slamming into engineer Sam bcuz
                        he was pulling out of West Whistle Stop 5 miles away and the time was
                        different there and they didnt know they were going to be on the same
                        road at the same time.
                        carl
                        --- In civilwarwest@y..., Aurelie1999@a... wrote:
                        >[..]
                        > Then there were late trains, no trains, troop trains, stopovers,
                        walks
                        > between stations, head-on collisions, and trains going nowhere.
                        >
                        > Connie





                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • carlw4514
                        The man has the facts as usual! Very interesting. I have to say, tho, that safety and coordination of rail lines are not disconnected issues. I have a book
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 14, 2001
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                          The man has the facts as usual! Very interesting. I have to say, tho,
                          that "safety" and "coordination of rail lines" are not disconnected
                          issues. I have a book on Railroad accidents and it is quite
                          fascinating. Head-on collisions were not unheard of after 1840,
                          sometimes due to incredibly dumb decisions by people on the spot. And
                          then there was the much more common problem of one train having to
                          stop, this unknown to a following train. The standard procedure was to
                          have a trainman hop off and run like the devil with a lantern to try
                          and stop the oncoming one in time. 99 percent of the time there was
                          only one track for all the traffic.
                          carl
                          --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Bob Huddleston" <adco12@m...> wrote:
                          > Interestingly, airlines use a lot of RR procedures in running
                          airlines, even
                          > using many of the same words: in the industry, smaller airports are
                          called
                          > stations.
                          >
                          > The RR adopted the telegraph in the 1840s to prevent corn field
                          meets.
                          >
                          > However, Standard Time was created not for safety but to allow
                          coordination
                          > of different rail lines, so that they could pass passengers and
                          freight back
                          > and forth. Towns often had three times: sun, and those of any
                          railroads
                          > which happened to run into the community. Circa 1885, the
                          predecessor of the
                          > American Association of Railroads adopted Standard Time, and most
                          > communities fell into place. However, legally, the country as a
                          whole did
                          > not adopt it until 1918, when Congress mandated Daylight Savings
                          Time.
                          >
                          > Take care,
                          >
                          > Bob
                          >
                          > Judy and Bob Huddleston
                          > 10643 Sperry Street
                          > Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                          > 303.451.6276 Adco@F...
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: carlw4514 [mailto:carlw4514@y...]
                          > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 10:36 AM
                          > To: civilwarwest@y...
                          > Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: RR in the south ( was Any good books
                          ...)
                          >
                          >
                          > accidents on the RR resulted in the creation of standard time and
                          time
                          > zones sometime in the 19th century. Yep, there were instances of
                          > engineer Joe pulling out of Podunk and slamming into engineer Sam
                          bcuz
                          > he was pulling out of West Whistle Stop 5 miles away and the time
                          was
                          > different there and they didnt know they were going to be on the
                          same
                          > road at the same time.
                          > carl
                          > --- In civilwarwest@y..., Aurelie1999@a... wrote:
                          > >[..]
                          > > Then there were late trains, no trains, troop trains, stopovers,
                          > walks
                          > > between stations, head-on collisions, and trains going nowhere.
                          > >
                          > > Connie
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • carlw4514
                          here s something interesting just ran across and explains the motivation for the southern system s changing guage on their RRs in the ACW, which in wartime was
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 5, 2002
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                            here's something interesting just ran across and explains the
                            motivation for the southern system's changing guage on their RRs in
                            the ACW, which in wartime was a big problem: troops would have to
                            disembark one line and wait to change to a different train in a
                            different station in order to continue.
                            -It's from
                            http://www.continentallocating.com/Marmaduke.htm
                            "...It had been decided to build a narrow gauge line instead of the
                            standard gauge road. One strong argument for the "small" gauge in the
                            south and southwest was that the bulk of traffic was cotton, which
                            would be compressed and large quantities transported without the
                            necessity of large rail cars..."





                            --- In civilwarwest@y..., Aurelie1999@a... wrote:
                            > I am absolutely fascinated with the strategic impact of railroads
                            throughout
                            > the war. What makes the entire story so fascinating is that
                            railroads were
                            > new and had never been covered at West Point. Yet the great rolling
                            wheels
                            > rapidly became tactical considerations, essential to effective
                            strategic
                            > planning and weapons in their own right. The tracks stitched the
                            army to
                            > their supplies and played a part in defeating the South by adding
                            steam to
                            > the West Point mantra of "celerity."
                            >
                            > Herman Haupt personified Yankee ingenuity when he built the
                            cornstalk bridge
                            > across Potomac Creek, developed a prefab system for quickly laying
                            and
                            > repairing track and kept the trains running on time and with
                            precision. In
                            > the West, Grenville Dodge adapted the English castle system for
                            protecting
                            > the lines and was able to fix broken track so quickly that the
                            Confederates
                            > were in complete awe.
                            >
                            > The best book I have found so far on the impact of railroads is
                            Victory Rode
                            > the Rails by George Edgar Turner which covers both the North and
                            South
                            > railroad situations. The Northern Railroads in the Civil War by
                            Thomas
                            > Webber is full of information, but much duller reading. Now I want
                            to get
                            > one that concentrates completely on the Southern railroads. The CSA
                            also
                            > displayed the Yankee ingenuity trait by the mere fact that they kept
                            their
                            > trains running to the end, an almost impossible task considering
                            their lack
                            > of resources in replenishing rolling stock and tracks. The
                            railroads in the
                            > CW are an amazing story worthy of a good movie.
                            >
                            > Connie
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