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Re: John Bell Hood and you thought Bragg was bad.

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  • hartshje
    Well Jim, you are probably right. Maybe he would have tried to do what Burnside almost did at Fredericksburg, lead another massed assault himself, and ride to
    Message 1 of 57 , Dec 5, 2001
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      Well Jim, you are probably right. Maybe he would have tried to do
      what Burnside almost did at Fredericksburg, lead another massed
      assault himself, and ride to glory, hell, or both! Too bad he would
      have taken so much company along with him for the ride.

      Joe H.

      --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Jim Elliot" <jrayelliot@a...> wrote:
      > He may not have have had a complete casualty list but he was very
      > much aware of the cost in General Officers. Given Hoods agressive
      > nature I think he would have ordered the assault. He was not a man
      > to back away from a fight. He marched right on to Nashville and
      > deployed his forces against overwhelming odds and finished what he
      > had started at Franklin....the destruction of his army.
      >
      > --- In civilwarwest@y..., hartshje@a... wrote:
      > > Jim,
      > >
      > > I did some re-reading, and found that you are correct. Hood
      > > did, in fact, order another assault for the morning. This order
      > > was given sometime after midnight. However, I would have to
      > > disagree with you about him knowing the full extent of his
      > > losses. A large part of the carnage occurred after dark, and
      > > though he had to know that it was bad, I still don't think he
      > > knew just HOW bad.
      > >
      > > His corps commanders didn't have actual casualty figures yet, and
      > > told Hood that their divisions were "cut to pieces". But I have
      > > read enough to know that the phrase can mean quite different
      > > things than reality. At Franklin, the sunrise would have brought
      > > that reality home. When Hood rode in to the town next day he
      > > stopped at the breastworks to survey the horrors, and wept like
      > > a baby.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Jim Elliot" <jrayelliot@a...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I wonder if Hood would have realized the fruitlessness if that
      > had
      > > > happened. Some time around midnight he had issued orders for
      > > > another > major frontal assault to take place the following
      > > > morning. This was long after the extent of the casulties were
      > > > known.
      > > >
      > > > Had Schofield elected to stay and fight Hood would have simply
      > > > lined the rest of SD Lee's corp up with the remains of
      Cheathams
      > > > and Stewarts Corps and the Army of Tennessee would have been
      > > > destroyed on that long gentle slope.
      > > >
      > > > Jim
      > > >
      > > > --- In civilwarwest@y..., hartshje@a... wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I agree with you completely! The ironic thing is, if the
      > attack
      > > > > had, in fact, been "blasted to rags" prior to reaching the
      Union
      > > > > lines, the casualty count probably would have been a lot less
      > > > > without the hours of face to face combat at the works. And
      the
      > > > > fruitlessness of the situation would have been realized a
      whole
      > > > > lot sooner.
      > > > > - Joe
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Jim Elliot" <jrayelliot@a...>
      wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I think it was a combination of both. Hood's greatest
      moments
      > > > > > had come in East during a part of the War when engagements
      > were
      > > > > > still pretty well standup and face the foe affairs.
      > Sharpsville
      > > > > > for example.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Had he witnessed Picket's assault I do not think he would
      > have
      > > > > > repeated the mistake at Franklin. The long gentle slope at
      > > > > > Franklin very much resembles the ground at Gettysburg. The
      > > > > > exception is instead of a stone wall, Jacob Cox was
      strongly
      > > > > > fortified.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > You mention had Opedyke not been where he was Hood's
      fortunes
      > > > > > may have been different. If Opedyke's boss Waggoner had not
      > > > > > disobeyed orders and attempted to have his troops stand and
      > > > > > fight Hood, creating the rout and allowing Cleaburne's and
      > > > > > Cheatham's troops to follow the routed federals right up to
      > the
      > > > > > breastworks. Waggoner's troops prevented the federal army
      > from
      > > > > > opening on the rebs until Waggoner's men came within the
      > lines.
      > > > > > Had they retired as they were supposed to do Hood's grand
      > > > > > charge would have been blasted to rags long before they
      came
      > > > > > close the outer works must less breaching the lines in
      front
      > of
      > > > > > the Carter House..
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In civilwarwest@y..., hartshje@a... wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > As bad as Hood's judgement was at Franklin, I don't
      think
      > it
      > > > > > > was his ego doing the talking. Let us not forget that
      > Hood
      > > > > > > had a reputation for straight, head-on fighting, which
      had
      > > > > > > been quite a successful (though costly) tactic for
      > whatever
      > > > > > > unit he commanded (R.E. Lee: "Texans ALWAYS move
      them!").
      > I
      > > > > > > think his wound at Gettysburg cost him much more than a
      > > > > > > useless arm. It cost him the eyewitness experience of
      the
      > > > > > > bloody Confederate repulse on July 3rd. Of course, I'm
      > sure
      > > > > > > he read about it, and talked about it with others, but
      > > > > > > that's not quite the same thing as seeing it first-
      hand.
      > > > > > > Lee certainly never tried anything like THAT again. So
      > Hood
      > > > > > > still believed that Southern spirit and courage could
      > carry
      > > > > > > the day against anything. And who knows, if Opdyke's
      > brigade
      > > > > > > hadn't been in the right spot at the right time, the
      Union
      > > > > > > line gets split in half, each half flanked out of their
      > > > > > > strong breastworks, and possibly the whole lot is bagged
      > > > > > > south of the Harpeth River. Then Hood goes down in
      history
      > > > > > > as another Lee or Napoleon. Never-the-less, the whole
      > thing
      > > > > > > was still a very bad idea.
      > > > > > >
    • carlw4514
      One of the functions of cavalry is gathering intelligence on the position of the enemy. McCook must have accomplished this at least. Did this not put the
      Message 57 of 57 , Dec 6, 2001
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        One of the functions of cavalry is gathering intelligence on the
        position of the enemy. McCook must have accomplished this at least.
        Did this not put the attack in jeoparday? (I'm asking, I don't know)
        Carl
        PS: ngeorgia.com doesnt seem to have much on Cassville, and unless I
        am greatly mistaken you are a contributor there. Of course, it was the
        battle that never happened. Am I missing what they have on it?

        --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:

        > Carl,
        > That cavalry force that was approaching <there has been some
        discussion that
        > McCook's boys were not even aware of Hood being so close> was a
        small force
        > and if Hood dispatched a small portion of his Corp's to either deal
        with or
        > to lead them away from his planned theater of battle, there is
        excellent
        > probable cause that JEJ's plan of battle would have been successful.
        I
        > think that Hood got rattled too much when told of a cavalry force
        > approaching. Since when was cavalry going to get the best of
        infantry. <g>
        >
        > Ed Bearrs and others have the same thought as above. At least that
        was my
        > impression when we discussed this at a seminar in January 1999,
        along with
        > McMurray <who took up for Hood>, Wiley Sword, and other notables.
        >
        > Wayne
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