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Short off topic question

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  • Jenny Holder
    Hi everyone, Just a short question. Would the ACW be considered as the ACWII seeing that the Americans during the Revolutionary War were really British,
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 8, 2001
      Hi everyone,
       Just a short question. Would the ACW be considered as the ACWII seeing that the Americans during the Revolutionary War were really British, therefore equivalent to what the English in Cromwell's time.
      Have heard that there was a book called "Cousin's War" by ?Kevin Nelson?
      Just a thought even if this is off the Western Theatre topic.
      Jenny
    • ColonelBari@aol.com
      I would believe the ACW to be ACWII because if you read some of the history behind the british troops, you will see that most lived in America as the military
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 8, 2001
        I would believe the ACW to be ACWII because if you read some of the history
        behind the british troops, you will see that most lived in America as the
        military police so to speak and as a guard from the threat of a second
        uprising of the indian nations which allied themselves with the French. The
        revolution was really a fight between the Americans who wanted more freedoms
        from Britain and Americans who enjoyed the life they were in and were willing
        to pay the few extra cents for tea and paper documents to keep the peace.
        Thats what I think anyway.

        S.R.T.
      • clarkc@missouri.edu
        Kevin Philips makes fair work of tying together many themes in his book, The Cousin s Wars . Frankly, I believe he could have covered more in half the pages;
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 9, 2001
          Kevin Philips makes fair work of tying together many themes in his
          book, "The Cousin's Wars". Frankly, I believe he could have covered
          more in half the pages; he spends a lot of effort with labored
          comparisons of Yankees, Rebels, Tories, cavaliers and roundheads.

          A better book I believe, with a broader perspective, is Hanson's
          'Carnage & Culture' which studies the rise of western miltary
          supremacy since the Greeks loosely based on the idea that free men
          fighting for lofty principles will eventually triumph over despots and
          dictators.


          HankC

          --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Jenny Holder" <jholder@i...> wrote:
          > Hi everyone,
          > Just a short question. Would the ACW be considered as the ACWII
          seeing that the Americans during the Revolutionary War were really
          British, therefore equivalent to what the English in Cromwell's time.
          > Have heard that there was a book called "Cousin's War" by ?Kevin
          Nelson?
          > Just a thought even if this is off the Western Theatre topic.
          > Jenny
        • carlw4514@yahoo.com
          Triumph over despots and dictators: Hope for our times, Hank? ... and
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 9, 2001
            Triumph over despots and dictators: Hope for our times, Hank?

            --- In civilwarwest@y..., clarkc@m... wrote:
            >
            > A better book I believe, with a broader perspective, is Hanson's
            > 'Carnage & Culture' which studies the rise of western miltary
            > supremacy since the Greeks loosely based on the idea that free men
            > fighting for lofty principles will eventually triumph over despots
            and
            > dictators.
            >
            >
            > HankC
          • Jenny Holder
            Thank you for your comment. Am not well versed in many areas of your Revolutionary War and your ACW but this was brought to my attention recently about being
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 9, 2001
              Thank you for your comment. Am not well versed in many areas of your
              Revolutionary War and your ACW but this was brought to my attention
              recently about being called the ACWII . IT was Kevin Phillips' book "The
              Cousin's War" not Kevin Nelson's which I misquoted.

              > I would believe the ACW to be ACWII because if you read some of the
              history
              > behind the british troops, you will see that most lived in America

              Yes, there were battles between rebel and loyalist militia men who weren't
              involved with British troops.


              > from Britain and Americans who enjoyed the life they were in and were
              willing
              > to pay the few extra cents for tea and paper documents to keep the peace.

              From what I know so far, it is not really "tea and paper" documents. It is
              deeper than that with the emerging cultural, religious, political and
              economic divergence .
              I think the tax on tea by the British was so minute that it wasn't that at
              all, however, it was enough to inflame it.
              I believe that one had to drink huge amount of tea in a year to feel the
              "tax" pinch on tea.
              Am going to read further on McPherson's book..."Battle Cry of Freedom" as he
              dealt wholistically about the ACW...., a good start to develop the overall
              view.

              Jenny
            • Jenny Holder
              Thank you, yes, I did misquote the name of the author. Was recommended to read Long Fuse ...a good prospective on Am Revolution, Crucible of War Fred
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 9, 2001
                Thank you, yes, I did misquote the name of the author.
                Was recommended to read "Long Fuse" ...a good prospective on Am Revolution,
                " Crucible of War" Fred Anderson, and "Cousin in War" which gave a good
                review of Anglo Am history 1630 to 1865.

                So "Carnage and Culture" by Hanson is another recommended one .

                BTW, it was brought to my attention about the Cavaliers being on American
                soil during Cromwell's time in UK. Interesting as I didn't ever hear about
                it.
                Am learning every day
                Jenny


                >
                > Kevin Philips makes fair work of tying together many themes in his
                > book, "The Cousin's Wars". Frankly, I believe he could have covered
                > more in half the pages; he spends a lot of effort with labored
                > comparisons of Yankees, Rebels, Tories, cavaliers and roundheads.
                >
                > A better book I believe, with a broader perspective, is Hanson's
                > 'Carnage & Culture' which studies the rise of western miltary
                > supremacy since the Greeks loosely based on the idea that free men
                > fighting for lofty principles will eventually triumph over despots and
                > dictators.
                >
                >
                > HankC
                >
                > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Jenny Holder" <jholder@i...> wrote:
                > > Hi everyone,
                > > Just a short question. Would the ACW be considered as the ACWII
                > seeing that the Americans during the Revolutionary War were really
                > British, therefore equivalent to what the English in Cromwell's time.
                > > Have heard that there was a book called "Cousin's War" by ?Kevin
                > Nelson?
                > > Just a thought even if this is off the Western Theatre topic.
                > > Jenny
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • Jenny Holder
                Hank, I haven t read it myself but I gather that this book is justa mere comparison..not to compare , for example...Lee or Grant. Jenny
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 9, 2001
                  Hank,
                  I haven't read it myself but I gather that this book is justa mere
                  comparison..not to compare , for example...Lee or Grant.
                  Jenny

                  >
                  > A better book I believe, with a broader perspective, is Hanson's
                  > 'Carnage & Culture' which studies the rise of western miltary
                  > supremacy since the Greeks loosely based on the idea that free men
                  > fighting for lofty principles will eventually triumph over despots and
                  > dictators.
                  >
                  >
                  > HankC
                  >
                  > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Jenny Holder" <jholder@i...> wrote:
                  > > Hi everyone,
                  > > Just a short question. Would the ACW be considered as the ACWII
                  > seeing that the Americans during the Revolutionary War were really
                  > British, therefore equivalent to what the English in Cromwell's time.
                  > > Have heard that there was a book called "Cousin's War" by ?Kevin
                  > Nelson?
                  > > Just a thought even if this is off the Western Theatre topic.
                  > > Jenny
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Jenny Holder
                  Now we have to triumph the extremist Talibans. Hadn t heard Bush s recent speech but it was supposed to have uplifted the spirits of you American people..
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 9, 2001
                    Now we have to "triumph" the extremist Talibans. Hadn't heard Bush's recent
                    speech but it was supposed to have "uplifted" the spirits of you American
                    people.. very touching too.
                    Regarding, despots, dictators, I had recently come across an article about
                    Wilkes Booth's mental state when he assassinated Lincoln.
                    Apparentally, he was obsessed with the idea that Lincoln was a "tryrant" and
                    also known as "Father Abraham" .He repressed his envy and hatred of his
                    brother/father. This repression of his led him to kill Lincoln as he
                    thought that he was a tyrant who would become king and destroy the South.
                    An interesting angle.
                    Jenny

                    > Triumph over despots and dictators: Hope for our times, Hank?
                    >
                    > --- In civilwarwest@y..., clarkc@m... wrote:
                    > >
                    > > A better book I believe, with a broader perspective, is Hanson's
                    > > 'Carnage & Culture' which studies the rise of western miltary
                    > > supremacy since the Greeks loosely based on the idea that free men
                    > > fighting for lofty principles will eventually triumph over despots
                    > and
                    > > dictators.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > HankC
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Robert Taubman
                    Jenny, you beat me to it. I was going to mention Anderson s Crucible of War as a prelude to events leading up to the American Revolution. They re still a
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 9, 2001
                      Jenny, you beat me to it. I was going to mention Anderson's Crucible of War as
                      a prelude to events leading up to the American Revolution. They're still a
                      bunch of rebels<g>!

                      Bob "in Canada's Capital" Taubman
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Jenny Holder" <jholder@...>
                      To: <civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 4:04 PM
                      Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Short off topic question


                      | Thank you, yes, I did misquote the name of the author.
                      | Was recommended to read "Long Fuse" ...a good prospective on Am Revolution,
                      | " Crucible of War" Fred Anderson, and "Cousin in War" which gave a good
                      | review of Anglo Am history 1630 to 1865.
                      |
                      | So "Carnage and Culture" by Hanson is another recommended one .
                      |
                      | BTW, it was brought to my attention about the Cavaliers being on American
                      | soil during Cromwell's time in UK. Interesting as I didn't ever hear about
                      | it.
                      | Am learning every day
                      | Jenny
                      |
                      |
                      | >
                      | > Kevin Philips makes fair work of tying together many themes in his
                      | > book, "The Cousin's Wars". Frankly, I believe he could have covered
                      | > more in half the pages; he spends a lot of effort with labored
                      | > comparisons of Yankees, Rebels, Tories, cavaliers and roundheads.
                      | >
                      | > A better book I believe, with a broader perspective, is Hanson's
                      | > 'Carnage & Culture' which studies the rise of western miltary
                      | > supremacy since the Greeks loosely based on the idea that free men
                      | > fighting for lofty principles will eventually triumph over despots and
                      | > dictators.
                      | >
                      | >
                      | > HankC
                      | >
                      | > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Jenny Holder" <jholder@i...> wrote:
                      | > > Hi everyone,
                      | > > Just a short question. Would the ACW be considered as the ACWII
                      | > seeing that the Americans during the Revolutionary War were really
                      | > British, therefore equivalent to what the English in Cromwell's time.
                      | > > Have heard that there was a book called "Cousin's War" by ?Kevin
                      | > Nelson?
                      | > > Just a thought even if this is off the Western Theatre topic.
                      | > > Jenny
                      | >
                      | >
                      | >
                      | >
                      | > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      | >
                      | >
                      | >
                      |
                      |
                      |
                      |
                      |
                      | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      |
                      |
                    • Jenny Holder
                      Bob, You know, I am such a glutton ..here I am getting lots of information about recommended books and do you think I have the time to read them?? Have been
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 9, 2001
                        Bob,
                        You know, I am such a glutton ..here I am getting lots of information about
                        recommended books and do you think I have the time to read them?? Have been
                        bombarded with lots and I jotted them down, hoping that one day I would get
                        to them.
                        Now that I have cancelled my trip to USA because of the current terrorist
                        situation, I won't be getting to the book stores...am aware of Amazon but I
                        like to view the books before purchasing them.

                        As for "rebels"..yes, they are rebels and Ozzies have an admiration for the
                        rebellious streak ....as they too disliked the British authority..( a lot of
                        Irish here).
                        I was told that a lot of Oz supported the South because they empathised with
                        the so called "under dogs"...now I got that impression from the ACWRTA
                        conference in July .
                        Gosh! I am "off topic" here in the CWW..my apology.
                        Jenny

                        > Jenny, you beat me to it. I was going to mention Anderson's Crucible of
                        War as
                        > a prelude to events leading up to the American Revolution. They're still
                        a
                        > bunch of rebels<g>!
                        >
                        > Bob "in Canada's Capital" Taubman
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Jenny Holder" <jholder@...>
                        > To: <civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 4:04 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Short off topic question
                        >
                        >
                        > | Thank you, yes, I did misquote the name of the author.
                        > | Was recommended to read "Long Fuse" ...a good prospective on Am
                        Revolution,
                        > | " Crucible of War" Fred Anderson, and "Cousin in War" which gave a good
                        > | review of Anglo Am history 1630 to 1865.
                        > |
                        > | So "Carnage and Culture" by Hanson is another recommended one .
                        > |
                        > | BTW, it was brought to my attention about the Cavaliers being on
                        American
                        > | soil during Cromwell's time in UK. Interesting as I didn't ever hear
                        about
                        > | it.
                        > | Am learning every day
                        > | Jenny
                        > |
                        > |
                        > | >
                        > | > Kevin Philips makes fair work of tying together many themes in his
                        > | > book, "The Cousin's Wars". Frankly, I believe he could have covered
                        > | > more in half the pages; he spends a lot of effort with labored
                        > | > comparisons of Yankees, Rebels, Tories, cavaliers and roundheads.
                        > | >
                        > | > A better book I believe, with a broader perspective, is Hanson's
                        > | > 'Carnage & Culture' which studies the rise of western miltary
                        > | > supremacy since the Greeks loosely based on the idea that free men
                        > | > fighting for lofty principles will eventually triumph over despots and
                        > | > dictators.
                        > | >
                        > | >
                        > | > HankC
                        > | >
                        > | > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Jenny Holder" <jholder@i...> wrote:
                        > | > > Hi everyone,
                        > | > > Just a short question. Would the ACW be considered as the ACWII
                        > | > seeing that the Americans during the Revolutionary War were really
                        > | > British, therefore equivalent to what the English in Cromwell's time.
                        > | > > Have heard that there was a book called "Cousin's War" by ?Kevin
                        > | > Nelson?
                        > | > > Just a thought even if this is off the Western Theatre topic.
                        > | > > Jenny
                        > | >
                        > | >
                        > | >
                        > | >
                        > | > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > | >
                        > | >
                        > | >
                        > |
                        > |
                        > |
                        > |
                        > |
                        > | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > |
                        > |
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                      • Jenny Holder
                        Bob, I have heard of a new analogy ( new to me anyway)regarding America having been balkanised because of the melting pot of people in even during the times
                        Message 11 of 11 , Nov 9, 2001
                          Bob,
                          I have heard of a new analogy ( new to me anyway)regarding America having
                          been "balkanised" because of the melting pot of people in even during the
                          times of the Rev War and ACW.
                          I have been reflecting on that and perhaps it might be too severe for those
                          periods. Will have to think about that.
                          Jenny
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