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Re: [civilwarwest] my first question ever

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  • john cole
    i would firstly like to say hello to everyone in the group.I first joined about three weeks ago after shotgun talked to me. through this time i have observed
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 8 5:18 AM
      i would firstly like to say hello to everyone in the group.I first joined
      about three weeks ago after shotgun talked to me. through this time i have
      observed how the group works and i now feel it is time i asked a question.
      'was it inevitable that the confederacy would be defeated by the
      union?'



      i appreciate that this is a large, open question but i would like to hear
      your views and perhaps we all have different angles to approach this.

      yours faithfully,
      john cole

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    • David Woodbury
      ... Strictly in terms of men and material, it would appear so. But most Civil War historians, I think, agree that the Confederacy had a very real chance to
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 8 9:53 AM
        At 12:18 PM +0000 4/8/00, john cole wrote:
        >'was it inevitable that the confederacy would be defeated by the
        >union?

        Strictly in terms of men and material, it would appear so. But most
        Civil War historians, I think, agree that the Confederacy had a very
        real chance to gain its independence. The combination of Confederate
        battle field victories early in the war, war weariness in the North,
        and recognition of the CSA by one of the European powers very well
        might have led to the Union conceding the issue. The first two of
        those ingredients (victories/war weariness) were there; the last
        (Recognition) came close.

        When you consider that the Confederacy could win by not losing, and
        that for the Union to win, it must first conquer the South, the
        inevitability of the outcome doesn't seem so clear cut.

        David
      • D. Andrew Burden, Ph.D.
        For anyone interested in a good example of arty stopping a charge, read up on Stones River, where Mendenhall s massed cannon (50 or so) at McFadden s ford
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 10 12:59 PM
          For anyone interested in a good example of arty stopping a charge, read
          up on Stones River, where Mendenhall's massed cannon (50 or so) at
          McFadden's ford chewed up Breckinridge's division in a matter of
          minutes. That must have been quite a sight.
          Andy

          tsalagibra@... wrote:
          >
          > << We had cannon factorys, I admit they
          > did capture our guns.Artillery played a big
          > part in many battles.That double canaster
          > stopped
          > many a charge. Clyde 19th Ohio light
          > artillery>>
          >
          > Clyde,
          > Which reminds me of the story about the captured Confederate who was
          > being escorted to rear and noticed the large array of artillery and commented
          > to his captors, "You boys have as many of those 'US' cannons as we do."
          >
          > Steve
          >
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        • john cole
          wow i didn t realise this question would go on for so long!!! what does everybody think of my idea that pickett s charge could have changed the course of the
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 12 12:58 PM
            wow i didn't realise this question would go on for so long!!!
            what does everybody think of my idea that pickett's charge could have
            changed the course of the war?

            yours respectfully
            john cole

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          • bobwatt@webtv.net
            They didn t say I m from Virginia at Franklin. Most of them were from Tenn, Ala. And Ga. and they did know better. It was all Gen Hoods idea to make the
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 12 1:43 PM
              They didn't say "I'm from Virginia" at Franklin. Most of them were from
              Tenn, Ala. And Ga. and they did know better. It was all Gen Hoods idea
              to make the charge. Jreb
            • David Woodbury
              ... Must have missed that the first time you posted. The Pickett-Pettigrew-Trimble assault was not likely to have changed the course of the war even had it
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 12 2:14 PM
                At 7:58 PM +0000 4/12/00, john cole wrote:
                >what does everybody think of my idea that pickett's charge could have
                >changed the course of the war?

                Must have missed that the first time you posted. The
                Pickett-Pettigrew-Trimble assault was not likely to have changed the
                course of the war even had it succeeded in breaking the Union line.
                It would have taken a massive Southern victory to make any real
                difference, and severing the center of the Union line on the third
                day was not the ticket. Lee could not sustain the penetration in the
                face of substantial Federal reinforcements already in the vicinity
                (the Federal rear).

                David
              • D. Andrew Burden, Ph.D.
                Having been to Franklin numerous times and to G burg once, I would rather have charged at G burg than at Franklin, although the real horror at Franklin was
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 13 9:32 AM
                  Having been to Franklin numerous times and to G'burg once, I would
                  rather have charged at G'burg than at Franklin, although the real horror
                  at Franklin was less the charge than the fighting that followed:
                  fighting at night, holding one side of part of the Federal works while
                  the Yankees were on the other side. I think it was as apocalyptic a
                  battle as was fought in the war. Also, heard the Carter House historian
                  (Cartwright is his name, I believe) once say that Franklin holds the
                  distinction as having the most generals killed in any battle in recorded
                  history.

                  Clyde Thompson wrote:
                  >
                  > John Cole;
                  > Picketts charge change the war? Yes, If
                  > it was never made. 1 mile across open ground.
                  > Not good. I heard Franklin was even worse.2
                  > miles. Those boys know what to expect.I'm
                  > sure that inter voice said don't go.But
                  > "I'm from Virginia" and off they went.
                  > Clyde
                  >
                  > =====
                  > Clyde
                  >
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                • D. Andrew Burden, Ph.D.
                  Having been to Franklin numerous times and to G burg once, I would rather have charged at G burg than at Franklin, although the real horror at Franklin was
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 13 9:32 AM
                    Having been to Franklin numerous times and to G'burg once, I would
                    rather have charged at G'burg than at Franklin, although the real horror
                    at Franklin was less the charge than the fighting that followed:
                    fighting at night, holding one side of part of the Federal works while
                    the Yankees were on the other side. I think it was as apocalyptic a
                    battle as was fought in the war. Also, heard the Carter House historian
                    (Cartwright is his name, I believe) once say that Franklin holds the
                    distinction as having the most generals killed in any battle in recorded
                    history.

                    Clyde Thompson wrote:
                    >
                    > John Cole;
                    > Picketts charge change the war? Yes, If
                    > it was never made. 1 mile across open ground.
                    > Not good. I heard Franklin was even worse.2
                    > miles. Those boys know what to expect.I'm
                    > sure that inter voice said don't go.But
                    > "I'm from Virginia" and off they went.
                    > Clyde
                    >
                    > =====
                    > Clyde
                    >
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                  • D. Andrew Burden, Ph.D.
                    Clyde: There is not a whole lot to see at Franklin. Not being under the USPS, they really struggle to provide a good experience for the visitor. You can tour
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 13 1:36 PM
                      Clyde:
                      There is not a whole lot to see at Franklin. Not being under the USPS,
                      they really struggle to provide a good experience for the visitor. You
                      can tour the Carter House, the nearby Lotz House, and there are things
                      to see on Winstead Hill (monuments to slain generals, etc.). The Carter
                      House has a small but really nice museum, and Franklin itself is a
                      beautiful small town with shops, etc. You can also see Fort Granger, on
                      a bluff over the Harpeth River. The problem with Ft. Granger is that
                      you have to know where it is to have any hope of finding it. Anybody
                      that comes this way that would like directions to find it then just let
                      me know. If anyone does come down this way, though, the absolute must
                      is Chickamauga. I've been to Shiloh, G'burg, Antietam, Nashville (such
                      as it is), Franklin, Stones River, and other smaller sites. Chickamauga
                      is my absolute favorite.
                      Andy

                      Clyde Thompson wrote:
                      >
                      > D.A, Burden:
                      > Franklin had to be the worst.12 generals
                      > down and 6 dead.Cleburne the Star of the
                      > west.Make you want to turn in your star.
                      > I guess they wore their rank openly.Makes
                      > you a target.
                      > Got as far as Stones River, never made
                      > Franklin, will put it on the list.
                      > Good show David. Clyde
                      >
                      > =====
                      > Clyde
                      >
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                    • D. Andrew Burden, Ph.D.
                      Clyde: There is not a whole lot to see at Franklin. Not being under the USPS, they really struggle to provide a good experience for the visitor. You can tour
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 13 1:36 PM
                        Clyde:
                        There is not a whole lot to see at Franklin. Not being under the USPS,
                        they really struggle to provide a good experience for the visitor. You
                        can tour the Carter House, the nearby Lotz House, and there are things
                        to see on Winstead Hill (monuments to slain generals, etc.). The Carter
                        House has a small but really nice museum, and Franklin itself is a
                        beautiful small town with shops, etc. You can also see Fort Granger, on
                        a bluff over the Harpeth River. The problem with Ft. Granger is that
                        you have to know where it is to have any hope of finding it. Anybody
                        that comes this way that would like directions to find it then just let
                        me know. If anyone does come down this way, though, the absolute must
                        is Chickamauga. I've been to Shiloh, G'burg, Antietam, Nashville (such
                        as it is), Franklin, Stones River, and other smaller sites. Chickamauga
                        is my absolute favorite.
                        Andy

                        Clyde Thompson wrote:
                        >
                        > D.A, Burden:
                        > Franklin had to be the worst.12 generals
                        > down and 6 dead.Cleburne the Star of the
                        > west.Make you want to turn in your star.
                        > I guess they wore their rank openly.Makes
                        > you a target.
                        > Got as far as Stones River, never made
                        > Franklin, will put it on the list.
                        > Good show David. Clyde
                        >
                        > =====
                        > Clyde
                        >
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