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Re: Review of "Triumph Over Adversity"

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  • brooksdsimpson@yahoo.com
    ... So is Joan Waugh. But you trashed her. And, unlike Long, she had no problem gaining tenure. She s also very knowledgeable about Grant. It s so
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 1, 2001
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      --- In civilwarwest@y..., josepharose@y... wrote:
      > --- In civilwarwest@y..., brooksdsimpson@y... wrote:
      > >
      > > Mr. Long's character or bias need not be a topic of conversation
      > here (especially as he is not present to defend himself)....
      >
      > It appears that Dr. David E. Long is a history professor and has a
      > doctorate.

      So is Joan Waugh. But you trashed her. And, unlike Long, she had no
      problem gaining tenure. She's also very knowledgeable about Grant.

      It's so unfortunate when people confuse disagreement with being
      disagreeable.
    • Bob Huddleston
      To look specifically at the review, 1. Depression is a difficult and, even today, hard to treat disorder. Some people can bloom quickly and overcome it --as
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 1, 2001
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        To look specifically at the review,

        1. Depression is a difficult and, even today, hard to treat disorder.
        Some people can bloom quickly and overcome it --as Lincoln did. Others
        may take longer, as Grant did.

        But there is no question that if USG did suffer from depression, he rose
        above it.

        2. As for the second paragraph, any person who would manumit a slave, at
        a moment when the erstwhile owner is in deep financial trouble (remember
        that he ended up hocking his watch for Christmas presents), *does*
        suggest that USG had problems with slavery. His one slave was worth
        $800-1,000.

        To place that in perspective, the initial 1863 income tax exempted
        salaries under $800, which was considered to be the average blue collar
        salary. As a captain of Infantry, Grant had been making $194/month,
        $2228 per year.

        That "most successful lawyer in Illinois history" averaged, in the
        1850s, averaged about $3,500-5,000 per year.

        I suspect that USG's income at Hardscabble was a whole lot less than he
        had made in the Army.

        How many of us would give away a year's salary (former Captain Grant),
        or 1/2 (for Captain Grant) or 1/3 (for Lincoln) of our salary when we
        would quickly turned that commodity into ready cash?

        If the details in a review are wrong, then why should the opinion be
        entitled to any respect?

        Take care,

        Bob

        Judy and Bob Huddleston
        10643 Sperry Street
        Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
        303.451.6276 Adco@...

        " Simpson
        tells us that young Grant frequently suffered from what 19th-century
        writers referred to as "melancholy," or what today would be diagnosed
        as depression. It is a rationalization that hardly explains his
        antebellum failures. Abraham Lincoln waged a lifelong battle
        against "melancholia," and yet became one of the most successful
        lawyers in Illinois history and eventually one of the nation's
        greatest presidents.

        ....

        "Simpson's rosy interpretations often are a quantum leap beyond the
        evidence used to support them. For example, Simpson informs us that
        during the war Grant wholeheartedly supported Lincoln's racial
        policies. Yet there is little in the early life of Grant to suggest
        that the institution of slavery deeply offended him. Grant's
        emergence as a racial egalitarian seems to have been the product of
        political expediency and a recognition of the shifting sands of
        social and cultural change during the Civil War.
      • josepharose@yahoo.com
        Dr. Simpson: You accuse me of trashing Professor Waugh. That is a gross mischaracterization; I did nothing of the sort. I wrote: Professor Waugh also
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 1, 2001
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          Dr. Simpson:

          You accuse me of "trashing" Professor Waugh. That is a gross
          mischaracterization; I did nothing of the sort. I wrote: "Professor
          Waugh also wrote a remarkably similar review of "Grant," by Jean
          Edward Smith. In the two reviews, there is little or no criticism of
          the authors' work and hardly any more of Grant as either a general or
          president."

          As soon as I learned you had a doctorate, I dropped my use of Mr.
          when referring to you. Is there any reason we should not extend to
          Dr. David Long the same courtesy?

          Joseph Rose



          From: brooksdsimpson@y...
          Date: Mon Oct 1, 2001 8:38 pm

          Subject: Re: Review of "Triumph Over Adversity"

          --- In civilwarwest@y..., josepharose@y... wrote:
          > --- In civilwarwest@y..., brooksdsimpson@y... wrote:
          > >
          > > Mr. Long's character or bias need not be a topic of conversation
          > here (especially as he is not present to defend himself)....
          >
          > It appears that Dr. David E. Long is a history professor and has a
          > doctorate.

          So is Joan Waugh. But you trashed her. And, unlike Long, she had no
          problem gaining tenure. She's also very knowledgeable about Grant.

          It's so unfortunate when people confuse disagreement with being
          disagreeable.
        • Dave Smith
          ... Completely different question. Is Joan Waugh related to Jack Waugh, author of Class of 1846 and Reelecting Lincoln? Jack lives in Texas, and Joan is
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 2, 2001
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            --- In civilwarwest@y..., brooksdsimpson@y... wrote:

            > So is Joan Waugh. But you trashed her. And, unlike Long, she had
            > no problem gaining tenure. She's also very knowledgeable about
            > Grant.

            Completely different question. Is Joan Waugh related to Jack Waugh,
            author of Class of 1846 and Reelecting Lincoln?

            Jack lives in Texas, and Joan is obviously on the West Coast.

            Just curious.

            Dave
          • FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM
            In a message dated 10/2/01 2:29:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, josepharose@yahoo.com writes:
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 2, 2001
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              In a message dated 10/2/01 2:29:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
              josepharose@... writes:

              << Dr. Simpson:

              You accuse me of "trashing" Professor Waugh. That is a gross
              mischaracterization; I did nothing of the sort. I wrote: "Professor
              Waugh also wrote a remarkably similar review of "Grant," by Jean
              Edward Smith. In the two reviews, there is little or no criticism of
              the authors' work and hardly any more of Grant as either a general or
              president."

              As soon as I learned you had a doctorate, I dropped my use of Mr.
              when referring to you. Is there any reason we should not extend to
              Dr. David Long the same courtesy?

              Joseph Rose
              >>
              Mr Rose,
              It would be greatly appreciated if you would confine your continued arguments
              with Dr. Simpson via personal email. I personally do not think that this
              forum is the place for such discussions, and I am quite sure that the
              majority of the members of this forum would concur with this request.

              Respectfully,

              Wayne C. Bengston
            • ecm777@aol.com
              Gentlemen, when is this going to stop? Would you please take all this bantering back and forth to private email. I personally don t have time to sort through
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 2, 2001
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                Gentlemen, when is this going to stop?  Would you please take all this bantering back and forth to private email.  I personally don't have time to sort through it all!

                Regards
                Colleen aka CWgal
              • Dick Weeks
                I agree Wayne. I do not want to see another critique of Dr. Simpson s book, good or bad posted on this board. I think we all know how each person that has
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 2, 2001
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                  I agree Wayne. I do not want to see another critique of Dr. Simpson's
                  book, good or bad posted on this board. I think we all know how each
                  person that has posted on this subject feels and it needs no further
                  amplification. I have already let this go on a little longer than I
                  should have.

                  I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
                  Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
                  http://www.civilwarhome.com

                  FLYNSWEDE@... wrote:

                  > In a message dated 10/2/01 2:29:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                  > josepharose@... writes:
                  >
                  > << Dr. Simpson:
                  >
                  > You accuse me of "trashing" Professor Waugh. That is a gross
                  > mischaracterization; I did nothing of the sort. I wrote: "Professor
                  > Waugh also wrote a remarkably similar review of "Grant," by Jean
                  > Edward Smith. In the two reviews, there is little or no criticism of
                  > the authors' work and hardly any more of Grant as either a general or
                  > president."
                  >
                  > As soon as I learned you had a doctorate, I dropped my use of Mr.
                  > when referring to you. Is there any reason we should not extend to
                  > Dr. David Long the same courtesy?
                  >
                  > Joseph Rose
                  > >>
                  > Mr Rose,
                  > It would be greatly appreciated if you would confine your continued arguments
                  > with Dr. Simpson via personal email. I personally do not think that this
                  > forum is the place for such discussions, and I am quite sure that the
                  > majority of the members of this forum would concur with this request.
                  >
                  > Respectfully,
                  >
                  > Wayne C. Bengston
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • brooksdsimpson@yahoo.com
                  ... Waugh, ... No relation of which I m aware. Both are very pleasant, intelligent people.
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 2, 2001
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                    --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Dave Smith" <dmsmith001@y...> wrote:

                    > Completely different question. Is Joan Waugh related to Jack
                    Waugh,
                    > author of Class of 1846 and Reelecting Lincoln?
                    >
                    > Jack lives in Texas, and Joan is obviously on the West Coast.

                    No relation of which I'm aware. Both are very pleasant, intelligent
                    people.
                  • sdwakefield@prodigy.net
                    Colleen- I agree I really think we need to get back to the donut debate. Please, ackowledge publicly that you were all wrong in the Krispy Kreme v. Donut
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 2, 2001
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                      Colleen-
                      I agree I really think we need to get back to the donut debate.
                      Please, ackowledge publicly that you were all wrong in the Krispy
                      Kreme v. Donut Palace Debate of last summer!
                      VBG
                      Regards-
                      Wakefield


                      -- In civilwarwest@y..., ecm777@a... wrote:
                      > Gentlemen, when is this going to stop? Would you please take all
                      this
                      > bantering back and forth to private email. I personally don't have
                      time to
                      > sort through it all!
                      >
                      > Regards
                      > Colleen aka CWgal
                    • brooksdsimpson@yahoo.com
                      ... this ... time to ... That s why it s so useful to access this group through the web page. :)
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 2, 2001
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                        --- In civilwarwest@y..., ecm777@a... wrote:
                        > Gentlemen, when is this going to stop? Would you please take all
                        this
                        > bantering back and forth to private email. I personally don't have
                        time to
                        > sort through it all!

                        That's why it's so useful to access this group through the web
                        page. :)
                      • brooksdsimpson@yahoo.com
                        ... this ... Colleen-- Once attacked in public, I believe I have the right to self-defense.
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 2, 2001
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                          --- In civilwarwest@y..., ecm777@a... wrote:
                          > Gentlemen, when is this going to stop? Would you please take all
                          this
                          > bantering back and forth to private email.

                          Colleen--

                          Once attacked in public, I believe I have the right to self-defense.
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