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Re: Review of "Triumph Over Adversity"

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  • brooksdsimpson@yahoo.com
    ... Mr. Rose first raised the issue of motivation and bias, if readers will recall his initial post. Mr. Rose has also remained silent on Mr. Long s
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 1 3:13 PM
      --- In civilwarwest@y..., josepharose@y... wrote:
      > --- In civilwarwest@y..., brooksdsimpson@y... wrote:
      > >
      > > Mr. Long's character or bias need not be a topic of conversation
      > here (especially as he is not present to defend himself)....
      >
      > It appears that Dr. David E. Long is a history professor and has a
      > doctorate. As he is not present and if his character or bias need
      > *not* be topics, I see no reason to accuse him of "purposeful
      > misrepresentation" or question his status as a gentleman.

      Mr. Rose first raised the issue of motivation and bias, if readers
      will recall his initial post.

      Mr. Rose has also remained silent on Mr. Long's misrepresentation of
      what I had to say about Cold Harbor.
    • brooksdsimpson@yahoo.com
      ... So is Joan Waugh. But you trashed her. And, unlike Long, she had no problem gaining tenure. She s also very knowledgeable about Grant. It s so
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 1 5:38 PM
        --- In civilwarwest@y..., josepharose@y... wrote:
        > --- In civilwarwest@y..., brooksdsimpson@y... wrote:
        > >
        > > Mr. Long's character or bias need not be a topic of conversation
        > here (especially as he is not present to defend himself)....
        >
        > It appears that Dr. David E. Long is a history professor and has a
        > doctorate.

        So is Joan Waugh. But you trashed her. And, unlike Long, she had no
        problem gaining tenure. She's also very knowledgeable about Grant.

        It's so unfortunate when people confuse disagreement with being
        disagreeable.
      • Bob Huddleston
        To look specifically at the review, 1. Depression is a difficult and, even today, hard to treat disorder. Some people can bloom quickly and overcome it --as
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 1 6:03 PM
          To look specifically at the review,

          1. Depression is a difficult and, even today, hard to treat disorder.
          Some people can bloom quickly and overcome it --as Lincoln did. Others
          may take longer, as Grant did.

          But there is no question that if USG did suffer from depression, he rose
          above it.

          2. As for the second paragraph, any person who would manumit a slave, at
          a moment when the erstwhile owner is in deep financial trouble (remember
          that he ended up hocking his watch for Christmas presents), *does*
          suggest that USG had problems with slavery. His one slave was worth
          $800-1,000.

          To place that in perspective, the initial 1863 income tax exempted
          salaries under $800, which was considered to be the average blue collar
          salary. As a captain of Infantry, Grant had been making $194/month,
          $2228 per year.

          That "most successful lawyer in Illinois history" averaged, in the
          1850s, averaged about $3,500-5,000 per year.

          I suspect that USG's income at Hardscabble was a whole lot less than he
          had made in the Army.

          How many of us would give away a year's salary (former Captain Grant),
          or 1/2 (for Captain Grant) or 1/3 (for Lincoln) of our salary when we
          would quickly turned that commodity into ready cash?

          If the details in a review are wrong, then why should the opinion be
          entitled to any respect?

          Take care,

          Bob

          Judy and Bob Huddleston
          10643 Sperry Street
          Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
          303.451.6276 Adco@...

          " Simpson
          tells us that young Grant frequently suffered from what 19th-century
          writers referred to as "melancholy," or what today would be diagnosed
          as depression. It is a rationalization that hardly explains his
          antebellum failures. Abraham Lincoln waged a lifelong battle
          against "melancholia," and yet became one of the most successful
          lawyers in Illinois history and eventually one of the nation's
          greatest presidents.

          ....

          "Simpson's rosy interpretations often are a quantum leap beyond the
          evidence used to support them. For example, Simpson informs us that
          during the war Grant wholeheartedly supported Lincoln's racial
          policies. Yet there is little in the early life of Grant to suggest
          that the institution of slavery deeply offended him. Grant's
          emergence as a racial egalitarian seems to have been the product of
          political expediency and a recognition of the shifting sands of
          social and cultural change during the Civil War.
        • josepharose@yahoo.com
          Dr. Simpson: You accuse me of trashing Professor Waugh. That is a gross mischaracterization; I did nothing of the sort. I wrote: Professor Waugh also
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 1 7:00 PM
            Dr. Simpson:

            You accuse me of "trashing" Professor Waugh. That is a gross
            mischaracterization; I did nothing of the sort. I wrote: "Professor
            Waugh also wrote a remarkably similar review of "Grant," by Jean
            Edward Smith. In the two reviews, there is little or no criticism of
            the authors' work and hardly any more of Grant as either a general or
            president."

            As soon as I learned you had a doctorate, I dropped my use of Mr.
            when referring to you. Is there any reason we should not extend to
            Dr. David Long the same courtesy?

            Joseph Rose



            From: brooksdsimpson@y...
            Date: Mon Oct 1, 2001 8:38 pm

            Subject: Re: Review of "Triumph Over Adversity"

            --- In civilwarwest@y..., josepharose@y... wrote:
            > --- In civilwarwest@y..., brooksdsimpson@y... wrote:
            > >
            > > Mr. Long's character or bias need not be a topic of conversation
            > here (especially as he is not present to defend himself)....
            >
            > It appears that Dr. David E. Long is a history professor and has a
            > doctorate.

            So is Joan Waugh. But you trashed her. And, unlike Long, she had no
            problem gaining tenure. She's also very knowledgeable about Grant.

            It's so unfortunate when people confuse disagreement with being
            disagreeable.
          • Dave Smith
            ... Completely different question. Is Joan Waugh related to Jack Waugh, author of Class of 1846 and Reelecting Lincoln? Jack lives in Texas, and Joan is
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 2 3:47 AM
              --- In civilwarwest@y..., brooksdsimpson@y... wrote:

              > So is Joan Waugh. But you trashed her. And, unlike Long, she had
              > no problem gaining tenure. She's also very knowledgeable about
              > Grant.

              Completely different question. Is Joan Waugh related to Jack Waugh,
              author of Class of 1846 and Reelecting Lincoln?

              Jack lives in Texas, and Joan is obviously on the West Coast.

              Just curious.

              Dave
            • FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM
              In a message dated 10/2/01 2:29:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, josepharose@yahoo.com writes:
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 2 6:16 AM
                In a message dated 10/2/01 2:29:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                josepharose@... writes:

                << Dr. Simpson:

                You accuse me of "trashing" Professor Waugh. That is a gross
                mischaracterization; I did nothing of the sort. I wrote: "Professor
                Waugh also wrote a remarkably similar review of "Grant," by Jean
                Edward Smith. In the two reviews, there is little or no criticism of
                the authors' work and hardly any more of Grant as either a general or
                president."

                As soon as I learned you had a doctorate, I dropped my use of Mr.
                when referring to you. Is there any reason we should not extend to
                Dr. David Long the same courtesy?

                Joseph Rose
                >>
                Mr Rose,
                It would be greatly appreciated if you would confine your continued arguments
                with Dr. Simpson via personal email. I personally do not think that this
                forum is the place for such discussions, and I am quite sure that the
                majority of the members of this forum would concur with this request.

                Respectfully,

                Wayne C. Bengston
              • ecm777@aol.com
                Gentlemen, when is this going to stop? Would you please take all this bantering back and forth to private email. I personally don t have time to sort through
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 2 6:38 AM
                  Gentlemen, when is this going to stop?  Would you please take all this bantering back and forth to private email.  I personally don't have time to sort through it all!

                  Regards
                  Colleen aka CWgal
                • Dick Weeks
                  I agree Wayne. I do not want to see another critique of Dr. Simpson s book, good or bad posted on this board. I think we all know how each person that has
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 2 6:48 AM
                    I agree Wayne. I do not want to see another critique of Dr. Simpson's
                    book, good or bad posted on this board. I think we all know how each
                    person that has posted on this subject feels and it needs no further
                    amplification. I have already let this go on a little longer than I
                    should have.

                    I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
                    Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
                    http://www.civilwarhome.com

                    FLYNSWEDE@... wrote:

                    > In a message dated 10/2/01 2:29:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    > josepharose@... writes:
                    >
                    > << Dr. Simpson:
                    >
                    > You accuse me of "trashing" Professor Waugh. That is a gross
                    > mischaracterization; I did nothing of the sort. I wrote: "Professor
                    > Waugh also wrote a remarkably similar review of "Grant," by Jean
                    > Edward Smith. In the two reviews, there is little or no criticism of
                    > the authors' work and hardly any more of Grant as either a general or
                    > president."
                    >
                    > As soon as I learned you had a doctorate, I dropped my use of Mr.
                    > when referring to you. Is there any reason we should not extend to
                    > Dr. David Long the same courtesy?
                    >
                    > Joseph Rose
                    > >>
                    > Mr Rose,
                    > It would be greatly appreciated if you would confine your continued arguments
                    > with Dr. Simpson via personal email. I personally do not think that this
                    > forum is the place for such discussions, and I am quite sure that the
                    > majority of the members of this forum would concur with this request.
                    >
                    > Respectfully,
                    >
                    > Wayne C. Bengston
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • brooksdsimpson@yahoo.com
                    ... Waugh, ... No relation of which I m aware. Both are very pleasant, intelligent people.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 2 7:43 AM
                      --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Dave Smith" <dmsmith001@y...> wrote:

                      > Completely different question. Is Joan Waugh related to Jack
                      Waugh,
                      > author of Class of 1846 and Reelecting Lincoln?
                      >
                      > Jack lives in Texas, and Joan is obviously on the West Coast.

                      No relation of which I'm aware. Both are very pleasant, intelligent
                      people.
                    • sdwakefield@prodigy.net
                      Colleen- I agree I really think we need to get back to the donut debate. Please, ackowledge publicly that you were all wrong in the Krispy Kreme v. Donut
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 2 7:44 AM
                        Colleen-
                        I agree I really think we need to get back to the donut debate.
                        Please, ackowledge publicly that you were all wrong in the Krispy
                        Kreme v. Donut Palace Debate of last summer!
                        VBG
                        Regards-
                        Wakefield


                        -- In civilwarwest@y..., ecm777@a... wrote:
                        > Gentlemen, when is this going to stop? Would you please take all
                        this
                        > bantering back and forth to private email. I personally don't have
                        time to
                        > sort through it all!
                        >
                        > Regards
                        > Colleen aka CWgal
                      • brooksdsimpson@yahoo.com
                        ... this ... time to ... That s why it s so useful to access this group through the web page. :)
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 2 7:50 AM
                          --- In civilwarwest@y..., ecm777@a... wrote:
                          > Gentlemen, when is this going to stop? Would you please take all
                          this
                          > bantering back and forth to private email. I personally don't have
                          time to
                          > sort through it all!

                          That's why it's so useful to access this group through the web
                          page. :)
                        • brooksdsimpson@yahoo.com
                          ... this ... Colleen-- Once attacked in public, I believe I have the right to self-defense.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Oct 2 7:54 AM
                            --- In civilwarwest@y..., ecm777@a... wrote:
                            > Gentlemen, when is this going to stop? Would you please take all
                            this
                            > bantering back and forth to private email.

                            Colleen--

                            Once attacked in public, I believe I have the right to self-defense.
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