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Re: Johnston's plan

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  • TN15th@cs.com
    ... important role in ... Columbus, ... areas. ... at when ... on in GA. ... What you say is mostly true, but there was a time early in Shermans move into
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 3, 2001
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      --- In civilwarwest@y..., LWhite64@a... wrote:
      > Well the problem though was that Forrest was serving a very
      important role in
      > North Miss and that was keeping Union troops from getting down to
      Columbus,
      > MS, Selma, AL, and Demopolis, AL, which were all CS industrial
      areas.
      > Sherman had Sturgis, etc move out to keep Forrest tied down. Look
      at when
      > Brice's Crossroads is fought and then at the same time whats going
      on in GA.
      >
      > Lee


      What you say is mostly true, but there was a time early in Shermans
      move into Georgia where Forrest was unengaged. Unfortunately, Davis
      and company missed the chance, and waited to late to send Forrest on
      Shermans communcations.

      He was able to get two raids in, but they were too late to matter.
      The first one Forrest destroyed some rail lines, but was unable to
      hit the main rail line. The second one was a masterpiece, where he
      captured a couple of Union boats. For a time Forrest's Cavalry, was
      accompanied by Forrest's Navy. He was able to shutdown the traffic on
      the Tennessee river, and destroy anywhere from 2 million to 7 million
      dollars worth of war material, barges, storehouses, and etc. Just
      think if he could have made that raid earlier, what effect it would
      have on Sherman's army.
    • FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM
      In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dmsmith001@yahoo.com writes:
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 5, 2001
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        In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
        dmsmith001@... writes:

        << First, like a lot of Joe Johnston's strategies (see Vicksburg and
        Theophilus Holmes), the solution to his problems lay in the use of
        someone else's troops (in this case, Forrest). >>

        I keep on hearing alot of flack about JEJ at Vicksburg. Joe had a lot more
        sense than to have his army trapped at VB like Pemberton did. If Pemberton
        had listen to Joe rather than Davis, it is most likely he would not have lost
        his army. If Joe had gone to VB as many have stated he should have, once
        again, it is most likely he would have lost the AOT as well as Pemberton's
        army. Grant would have liked nothing better than for Joe to get his forces
        trapped.

        Wayne
      • Dave Smith
        ... and ... Actually, Wayne, I d have been thrilled to death had JEJ done any of the following: 1) Hopped in a wagon, and ridden the twenty miles to join
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 5, 2001
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          --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:
          > In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
          > dmsmith001@y... writes:
          >
          > << First, like a lot of Joe Johnston's strategies (see Vicksburg
          and
          > Theophilus Holmes), the solution to his problems lay in the use of
          > someone else's troops (in this case, Forrest). >>
          >
          > I keep on hearing alot of flack about JEJ at Vicksburg. Joe had a
          > lot more > sense than to have his army trapped at VB like Pemberton
          > did. If Pemberton had listen to Joe rather than Davis, it is most
          > likely he would not have lost his army. If Joe had gone to VB as
          > many have stated he should have, once again, it is most likely he
          > would have lost the AOT as well as Pemberton's army. Grant would
          > have liked nothing better than for Joe to get his forces trapped.

          Actually, Wayne, I'd have been thrilled to death had JEJ done any of
          the following: 1) Hopped in a wagon, and ridden the twenty miles to
          join Pemberton at Edwards on May 14, and taken command of the army -
          like his responsibility suggested he should have, or 2) tried to do
          something to attack Grant from *outside* of the trenches in late May,
          1863.

          No need to get trapped in either scenario. It would require an
          element of risk taking on JEJ's part, but oh, never mind. :-)

          Dave
        • Michael Mason
          Anything would have been better than,nothing which is what Joe Johnston chose to do,nothing! The Baron On 05-Sep-01, Dave Smith wrote:
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 5, 2001
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            Anything would have been better than,nothing which is what
            Joe Johnston chose to do,nothing! The Baron


            On 05-Sep-01, Dave Smith <dmsmith001@...> wrote:
            <html><body>
            <tt>
            --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:<BR>
            > In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
            > dmsmith001@y... writes:<BR>
            > <BR>
            > << First, like a lot of Joe Johnston's strategies (see Vicksburg <BR>
            and <BR>
            >� Theophilus Holmes), the solution to his problems lay in the use of <BR>
            >� someone else's troops (in this case, Forrest).�� >><BR>
            > <BR>
            > I keep on hearing alot of flack about JEJ at Vicksburg.� Joe had a <BR>
            > lot more > sense than to have his army trapped at VB like Pemberton <BR>
            > did.� If Pemberton� had listen to Joe rather than Davis, it is most <BR>
            > likely he would not have lost his army.� If Joe had gone to VB as <BR>
            > many have stated he should have, once� again, it is most likely he <BR>
            > would have lost the AOT as well as Pemberton's army.� Grant would <BR>
            > have liked nothing better than for Joe to get his forces trapped.<BR>
            <BR>
            Actually, Wayne, I'd have been thrilled to death had JEJ done any of <BR>
            the following: 1) Hopped in a wagon, and ridden the twenty miles to <BR>
            join Pemberton at Edwards on May 14, and taken command of the army - <BR>
            like his responsibility suggested he should have, or 2) tried to do <BR>
            something to attack Grant from *outside* of the trenches in late May, <BR>
            1863.<BR>
            <BR>
            No need to get trapped in either scenario.� It would require an <BR>
            element of risk taking on JEJ's part, but oh, never mind. :-)<BR>
            <BR>
            Dave<BR>
            <BR>
            </tt>

            <br>

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          • clarkc@missouri.edu
            I suspect the flak is due to Johnston doing NOTHING except wait for what he made inevitable by his inaction. Both Davis and Lincoln believed (Lincoln more so)
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 6, 2001
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              I suspect the flak is due to Johnston doing NOTHING except wait for
              what he made inevitable by his inaction.

              Both Davis and Lincoln believed (Lincoln more so) that the war would
              be won by hard fighting.

              Lincoln had the advantage of a larger pool of officers from which to
              choose and he learned on the job much better than Davis. Davis was
              content to shuffle his officers as opposed to discarding them as
              Lincoln did.


              Cheers,
              HankC

              --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:
              > In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
              > dmsmith001@y... writes:
              >
              > << First, like a lot of Joe Johnston's strategies (see Vicksburg and
              > Theophilus Holmes), the solution to his problems lay in the use of
              > someone else's troops (in this case, Forrest). >>
              >
              > I keep on hearing alot of flack about JEJ at Vicksburg. Joe had a
              lot more
              > sense than to have his army trapped at VB like Pemberton did. If
              Pemberton
              > had listen to Joe rather than Davis, it is most likely he would not
              have lost
              > his army. If Joe had gone to VB as many have stated he should have,
              once
              > again, it is most likely he would have lost the AOT as well as
              Pemberton's
              > army. Grant would have liked nothing better than for Joe to get his
              forces
              > trapped.
              >
              > Wayne
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