Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [civilwarwest] Johnston's plan

Expand Messages
  • LWhite64@aol.com
    Well the problem though was that Forrest was serving a very important role in North Miss and that was keeping Union troops from getting down to Columbus, MS,
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 2, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Well the problem though was that Forrest was serving a very important role in
      North Miss and that was keeping Union troops from getting down to Columbus,
      MS, Selma, AL, and Demopolis, AL, which were all CS industrial areas.  
      Sherman had Sturgis, etc move out to keep Forrest tied down.  Look at when
      Brice's Crossroads is fought and then at the same time whats going on in GA.

      Lee
    • TN15th@cs.com
      ... important role in ... Columbus, ... areas. ... at when ... on in GA. ... What you say is mostly true, but there was a time early in Shermans move into
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 3, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In civilwarwest@y..., LWhite64@a... wrote:
        > Well the problem though was that Forrest was serving a very
        important role in
        > North Miss and that was keeping Union troops from getting down to
        Columbus,
        > MS, Selma, AL, and Demopolis, AL, which were all CS industrial
        areas.
        > Sherman had Sturgis, etc move out to keep Forrest tied down. Look
        at when
        > Brice's Crossroads is fought and then at the same time whats going
        on in GA.
        >
        > Lee


        What you say is mostly true, but there was a time early in Shermans
        move into Georgia where Forrest was unengaged. Unfortunately, Davis
        and company missed the chance, and waited to late to send Forrest on
        Shermans communcations.

        He was able to get two raids in, but they were too late to matter.
        The first one Forrest destroyed some rail lines, but was unable to
        hit the main rail line. The second one was a masterpiece, where he
        captured a couple of Union boats. For a time Forrest's Cavalry, was
        accompanied by Forrest's Navy. He was able to shutdown the traffic on
        the Tennessee river, and destroy anywhere from 2 million to 7 million
        dollars worth of war material, barges, storehouses, and etc. Just
        think if he could have made that raid earlier, what effect it would
        have on Sherman's army.
      • FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM
        In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dmsmith001@yahoo.com writes:
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 5, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
          dmsmith001@... writes:

          << First, like a lot of Joe Johnston's strategies (see Vicksburg and
          Theophilus Holmes), the solution to his problems lay in the use of
          someone else's troops (in this case, Forrest). >>

          I keep on hearing alot of flack about JEJ at Vicksburg. Joe had a lot more
          sense than to have his army trapped at VB like Pemberton did. If Pemberton
          had listen to Joe rather than Davis, it is most likely he would not have lost
          his army. If Joe had gone to VB as many have stated he should have, once
          again, it is most likely he would have lost the AOT as well as Pemberton's
          army. Grant would have liked nothing better than for Joe to get his forces
          trapped.

          Wayne
        • Dave Smith
          ... and ... Actually, Wayne, I d have been thrilled to death had JEJ done any of the following: 1) Hopped in a wagon, and ridden the twenty miles to join
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 5, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:
            > In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
            > dmsmith001@y... writes:
            >
            > << First, like a lot of Joe Johnston's strategies (see Vicksburg
            and
            > Theophilus Holmes), the solution to his problems lay in the use of
            > someone else's troops (in this case, Forrest). >>
            >
            > I keep on hearing alot of flack about JEJ at Vicksburg. Joe had a
            > lot more > sense than to have his army trapped at VB like Pemberton
            > did. If Pemberton had listen to Joe rather than Davis, it is most
            > likely he would not have lost his army. If Joe had gone to VB as
            > many have stated he should have, once again, it is most likely he
            > would have lost the AOT as well as Pemberton's army. Grant would
            > have liked nothing better than for Joe to get his forces trapped.

            Actually, Wayne, I'd have been thrilled to death had JEJ done any of
            the following: 1) Hopped in a wagon, and ridden the twenty miles to
            join Pemberton at Edwards on May 14, and taken command of the army -
            like his responsibility suggested he should have, or 2) tried to do
            something to attack Grant from *outside* of the trenches in late May,
            1863.

            No need to get trapped in either scenario. It would require an
            element of risk taking on JEJ's part, but oh, never mind. :-)

            Dave
          • Michael Mason
            Anything would have been better than,nothing which is what Joe Johnston chose to do,nothing! The Baron On 05-Sep-01, Dave Smith wrote:
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 5, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              Anything would have been better than,nothing which is what
              Joe Johnston chose to do,nothing! The Baron


              On 05-Sep-01, Dave Smith <dmsmith001@...> wrote:
              <html><body>
              <tt>
              --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:<BR>
              > In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
              > dmsmith001@y... writes:<BR>
              > <BR>
              > << First, like a lot of Joe Johnston's strategies (see Vicksburg <BR>
              and <BR>
              >� Theophilus Holmes), the solution to his problems lay in the use of <BR>
              >� someone else's troops (in this case, Forrest).�� >><BR>
              > <BR>
              > I keep on hearing alot of flack about JEJ at Vicksburg.� Joe had a <BR>
              > lot more > sense than to have his army trapped at VB like Pemberton <BR>
              > did.� If Pemberton� had listen to Joe rather than Davis, it is most <BR>
              > likely he would not have lost his army.� If Joe had gone to VB as <BR>
              > many have stated he should have, once� again, it is most likely he <BR>
              > would have lost the AOT as well as Pemberton's army.� Grant would <BR>
              > have liked nothing better than for Joe to get his forces trapped.<BR>
              <BR>
              Actually, Wayne, I'd have been thrilled to death had JEJ done any of <BR>
              the following: 1) Hopped in a wagon, and ridden the twenty miles to <BR>
              join Pemberton at Edwards on May 14, and taken command of the army - <BR>
              like his responsibility suggested he should have, or 2) tried to do <BR>
              something to attack Grant from *outside* of the trenches in late May, <BR>
              1863.<BR>
              <BR>
              No need to get trapped in either scenario.� It would require an <BR>
              element of risk taking on JEJ's part, but oh, never mind. :-)<BR>
              <BR>
              Dave<BR>
              <BR>
              </tt>

              <br>

              <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

              <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
              <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
              <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
              </tr>
              <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
              <td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font
              face=arial
              size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><table width="300" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="300">
              <table width="300" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
              <tr valign="top"><td width="184" colspan="2"><img src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/di/dietsmart/4.gif" width="184" height="70" alt="" border="0"></td>
              <td width="116" rowspan="2"><img src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/di/dietsmart/1.jpg" width="116" height="221" alt="" border="0"></td>
              </tr><form method="get" action="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=210544.1579876.3135161.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705020536:HM/A=776685/R=0/*http://ads.track-star.com/adspace.ts">
              <tr valign="bottom"><td width="1" bgcolor="#003399"><img src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/di/dietsmart/darkblue.gif" width="1" height="151" alt="" border="0"></td>
              <td width="183" bgcolor="#33CCFF" align="center"><input type="hidden" name="ts" value="1;2;217;107_224_105_264"><input type="hidden" name="startApplication" value="%20">
              <font style="font-size: 12px;font-family:Times New Roman,Times,serif;font-weight:bold;">You can, too! Start here...<br><img src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/di/dietsmart/clear.gif" width="5" height="5" alt="" border="0"><br>Height:<br><select name="feet" size="1" maxlength="1" > <option value="3">3
              <option value="4">4
              <option value="5" selected>5
              <option value="6">6
              <option value="7">7
              <option value="8">8
              </select>
              ft����
              <select name="inches" size="1" maxlength="2">
              <option value="00">0
              <option value="1">1
              <option value="2">2
              <option value="3">3
              <option value="4" selected>4
              <option value="5">5
              <option value="6">6
              <option value="7">7
              <option value="8">8
              <option value="9">9
              <option value="10">10
              <option value="11">11
              </select>in<br><img src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/di/dietsmart/clear.gif" width="5" height="5" alt="" border="0"><br>
              Weight:<br>
              <input name="weightUnit" type="radio" value="pounds" checked style="background:#33CCFF;color:#000001;">lbs.
              <input name="weightUnit" type="radio" value="kilograms" style="background:#33CCFF;color:#000001;">kg.<br>
              <input type="text" name="weight" size="5" value=""></font><br><img src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/di/dietsmart/clear.gif" width="5" height="8" alt="" border="0"><br><img src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/di/dietsmart/3.gif" width="183" height="19" alt="" border="0"></td></tr>
              <tr><td colspan="3" width="300"><input type="image" src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/di/dietsmart/2.gif" width="300" height="29" alt="" border="0"></td></tr></form>
              </table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td>
              </tr>
              <tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1 src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=210544.1579876.3135161.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705020536:HM/A=776685/rand=231594428"></td></tr>
              </table>

              <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->



              <br>
              <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</a>.</tt>
              </br>

              </body></html>
            • clarkc@missouri.edu
              I suspect the flak is due to Johnston doing NOTHING except wait for what he made inevitable by his inaction. Both Davis and Lincoln believed (Lincoln more so)
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 6, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                I suspect the flak is due to Johnston doing NOTHING except wait for
                what he made inevitable by his inaction.

                Both Davis and Lincoln believed (Lincoln more so) that the war would
                be won by hard fighting.

                Lincoln had the advantage of a larger pool of officers from which to
                choose and he learned on the job much better than Davis. Davis was
                content to shuffle his officers as opposed to discarding them as
                Lincoln did.


                Cheers,
                HankC

                --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:
                > In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                > dmsmith001@y... writes:
                >
                > << First, like a lot of Joe Johnston's strategies (see Vicksburg and
                > Theophilus Holmes), the solution to his problems lay in the use of
                > someone else's troops (in this case, Forrest). >>
                >
                > I keep on hearing alot of flack about JEJ at Vicksburg. Joe had a
                lot more
                > sense than to have his army trapped at VB like Pemberton did. If
                Pemberton
                > had listen to Joe rather than Davis, it is most likely he would not
                have lost
                > his army. If Joe had gone to VB as many have stated he should have,
                once
                > again, it is most likely he would have lost the AOT as well as
                Pemberton's
                > army. Grant would have liked nothing better than for Joe to get his
                forces
                > trapped.
                >
                > Wayne
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.