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Re: [civilwarwest] Johnston's plan

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  • CashG79@aol.com
    Johnston was also counting on the expiration of Union enlistments. However, he miscalculated the amount it would hurt Sherman due to the large number of new
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 2, 2001
      Johnston was also counting on the expiration of Union enlistments. However, he miscalculated the amount it would hurt Sherman due to the large number of new recruits and veterans who reenlisted.

      Regards,
      Cash
    • LWhite64@aol.com
      Well the problem though was that Forrest was serving a very important role in North Miss and that was keeping Union troops from getting down to Columbus, MS,
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 2, 2001
        Well the problem though was that Forrest was serving a very important role in
        North Miss and that was keeping Union troops from getting down to Columbus,
        MS, Selma, AL, and Demopolis, AL, which were all CS industrial areas.  
        Sherman had Sturgis, etc move out to keep Forrest tied down.  Look at when
        Brice's Crossroads is fought and then at the same time whats going on in GA.

        Lee
      • TN15th@cs.com
        ... important role in ... Columbus, ... areas. ... at when ... on in GA. ... What you say is mostly true, but there was a time early in Shermans move into
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 3, 2001
          --- In civilwarwest@y..., LWhite64@a... wrote:
          > Well the problem though was that Forrest was serving a very
          important role in
          > North Miss and that was keeping Union troops from getting down to
          Columbus,
          > MS, Selma, AL, and Demopolis, AL, which were all CS industrial
          areas.
          > Sherman had Sturgis, etc move out to keep Forrest tied down. Look
          at when
          > Brice's Crossroads is fought and then at the same time whats going
          on in GA.
          >
          > Lee


          What you say is mostly true, but there was a time early in Shermans
          move into Georgia where Forrest was unengaged. Unfortunately, Davis
          and company missed the chance, and waited to late to send Forrest on
          Shermans communcations.

          He was able to get two raids in, but they were too late to matter.
          The first one Forrest destroyed some rail lines, but was unable to
          hit the main rail line. The second one was a masterpiece, where he
          captured a couple of Union boats. For a time Forrest's Cavalry, was
          accompanied by Forrest's Navy. He was able to shutdown the traffic on
          the Tennessee river, and destroy anywhere from 2 million to 7 million
          dollars worth of war material, barges, storehouses, and etc. Just
          think if he could have made that raid earlier, what effect it would
          have on Sherman's army.
        • FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM
          In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dmsmith001@yahoo.com writes:
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 5, 2001
            In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
            dmsmith001@... writes:

            << First, like a lot of Joe Johnston's strategies (see Vicksburg and
            Theophilus Holmes), the solution to his problems lay in the use of
            someone else's troops (in this case, Forrest). >>

            I keep on hearing alot of flack about JEJ at Vicksburg. Joe had a lot more
            sense than to have his army trapped at VB like Pemberton did. If Pemberton
            had listen to Joe rather than Davis, it is most likely he would not have lost
            his army. If Joe had gone to VB as many have stated he should have, once
            again, it is most likely he would have lost the AOT as well as Pemberton's
            army. Grant would have liked nothing better than for Joe to get his forces
            trapped.

            Wayne
          • Dave Smith
            ... and ... Actually, Wayne, I d have been thrilled to death had JEJ done any of the following: 1) Hopped in a wagon, and ridden the twenty miles to join
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 5, 2001
              --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:
              > In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
              > dmsmith001@y... writes:
              >
              > << First, like a lot of Joe Johnston's strategies (see Vicksburg
              and
              > Theophilus Holmes), the solution to his problems lay in the use of
              > someone else's troops (in this case, Forrest). >>
              >
              > I keep on hearing alot of flack about JEJ at Vicksburg. Joe had a
              > lot more > sense than to have his army trapped at VB like Pemberton
              > did. If Pemberton had listen to Joe rather than Davis, it is most
              > likely he would not have lost his army. If Joe had gone to VB as
              > many have stated he should have, once again, it is most likely he
              > would have lost the AOT as well as Pemberton's army. Grant would
              > have liked nothing better than for Joe to get his forces trapped.

              Actually, Wayne, I'd have been thrilled to death had JEJ done any of
              the following: 1) Hopped in a wagon, and ridden the twenty miles to
              join Pemberton at Edwards on May 14, and taken command of the army -
              like his responsibility suggested he should have, or 2) tried to do
              something to attack Grant from *outside* of the trenches in late May,
              1863.

              No need to get trapped in either scenario. It would require an
              element of risk taking on JEJ's part, but oh, never mind. :-)

              Dave
            • Michael Mason
              Anything would have been better than,nothing which is what Joe Johnston chose to do,nothing! The Baron On 05-Sep-01, Dave Smith wrote:
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 5, 2001
                Anything would have been better than,nothing which is what
                Joe Johnston chose to do,nothing! The Baron


                On 05-Sep-01, Dave Smith <dmsmith001@...> wrote:
                <html><body>
                <tt>
                --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:<BR>
                > In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
                > dmsmith001@y... writes:<BR>
                > <BR>
                > << First, like a lot of Joe Johnston's strategies (see Vicksburg <BR>
                and <BR>
                >� Theophilus Holmes), the solution to his problems lay in the use of <BR>
                >� someone else's troops (in this case, Forrest).�� >><BR>
                > <BR>
                > I keep on hearing alot of flack about JEJ at Vicksburg.� Joe had a <BR>
                > lot more > sense than to have his army trapped at VB like Pemberton <BR>
                > did.� If Pemberton� had listen to Joe rather than Davis, it is most <BR>
                > likely he would not have lost his army.� If Joe had gone to VB as <BR>
                > many have stated he should have, once� again, it is most likely he <BR>
                > would have lost the AOT as well as Pemberton's army.� Grant would <BR>
                > have liked nothing better than for Joe to get his forces trapped.<BR>
                <BR>
                Actually, Wayne, I'd have been thrilled to death had JEJ done any of <BR>
                the following: 1) Hopped in a wagon, and ridden the twenty miles to <BR>
                join Pemberton at Edwards on May 14, and taken command of the army - <BR>
                like his responsibility suggested he should have, or 2) tried to do <BR>
                something to attack Grant from *outside* of the trenches in late May, <BR>
                1863.<BR>
                <BR>
                No need to get trapped in either scenario.� It would require an <BR>
                element of risk taking on JEJ's part, but oh, never mind. :-)<BR>
                <BR>
                Dave<BR>
                <BR>
                </tt>

                <br>

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              • clarkc@missouri.edu
                I suspect the flak is due to Johnston doing NOTHING except wait for what he made inevitable by his inaction. Both Davis and Lincoln believed (Lincoln more so)
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 6, 2001
                  I suspect the flak is due to Johnston doing NOTHING except wait for
                  what he made inevitable by his inaction.

                  Both Davis and Lincoln believed (Lincoln more so) that the war would
                  be won by hard fighting.

                  Lincoln had the advantage of a larger pool of officers from which to
                  choose and he learned on the job much better than Davis. Davis was
                  content to shuffle his officers as opposed to discarding them as
                  Lincoln did.


                  Cheers,
                  HankC

                  --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:
                  > In a message dated 9/5/01 10:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                  > dmsmith001@y... writes:
                  >
                  > << First, like a lot of Joe Johnston's strategies (see Vicksburg and
                  > Theophilus Holmes), the solution to his problems lay in the use of
                  > someone else's troops (in this case, Forrest). >>
                  >
                  > I keep on hearing alot of flack about JEJ at Vicksburg. Joe had a
                  lot more
                  > sense than to have his army trapped at VB like Pemberton did. If
                  Pemberton
                  > had listen to Joe rather than Davis, it is most likely he would not
                  have lost
                  > his army. If Joe had gone to VB as many have stated he should have,
                  once
                  > again, it is most likely he would have lost the AOT as well as
                  Pemberton's
                  > army. Grant would have liked nothing better than for Joe to get his
                  forces
                  > trapped.
                  >
                  > Wayne
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